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Thread: A realistic discussion on the Knicks.

  1. #1
    12th man
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    Default A realistic discussion on the Knicks.

    No "homers" or "haters"

    Well, we're 31-44. I guess its better than 23 wins. Just sucks Chicago has our draft pick again this year, makes me think if Curry was worth it all.

    The first point I want to make is I believe individual efforts do not become winning basketball. That is what people do not get. they are grasping at any good game from a young player as if its going to translate to wins next year. We need some kind of infussion , major changes, something. Maybe a new coach.

    Secondly, we should realize by now that Collins and Balkman can play. Mardy Collins is already the best decision maker on this team arguably, he knows where the ball should go, always under control and composed, and he's been able to get to the basket, he looks just infinitely more confident by each game. Balkman's energy reminds me of Sprewell's, though are very different players

    Curry has 33 turn overs over 6 games. That's 5.5 TOs per game. 16 over the last 2 games...I like Curry's ability to score, but I can't see us winning games with Eddy as the primary option. He gives up too many posessions offensively and defensively. I mean, if Curry was averaging 27 points per game on 4 turnovers a game, I wouldn't have a problem with him. But its 18 points per game in alot of minutes, and he's among the league leaders in TO's, you feel me? Not a good sign. I hope Curry works on passing out of double teams. It would really improve our offense so much, thats what I'm looking foward to next season...hopefully it works out.

    The last topic I want to topic about is our starters Frye and Jefferies. Jeff was brought here to be a defensive stopper. But I don't know how many times Jaric was left wide open. Jefferies is poor offensively, and average at best defensively. I don't know what Jefferies is better at than Balkman. I haven't seen it, so I don't know why he's starting over Balkman, especially when our season is over. Atleast give the kid starter experience.

    Frye...is suppose to be a jumpshooter...but he isn't hitting his shots. Just like how Jefferies is suppose to be a defender, but doesn't defend well.

    Well, share your points here...

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    First of I'd like to say, this is a well thought out post. I don't think we need major upheval though. I think we have to give the core guys time to learn from the mistake of missing the playoffs. It will sting to know that they could've decided the own fate and left it on the table. That will hopefully translate into guys hitting the gym to develop their shooting, working on defensive rotations or footwork. Guys here are good players. I agree with you that Balkman is outstanding. He's got some Gerald Wallace type game (Hard rebounder, defends well, goes to the basket).

    Curry literally has the weight of the world on his shoulders. He has to try to fill in for a hall of famer in the Mecca of Basketball. Not an enviable task. You can see that Curry is pressing. He feels responsible to prove that Isiah didn't make a mistake by bringing him in. That's hard for anyone, even harder when your 24. The pressure is getting to him. The off season will tell what Curry is made of. He has to go develop his rebounding, timing and footwork. If he does those things, he'll be well on his way to becoming one of the best centers in the Association.

    Jeffries should be a bench player or moved. With the emergence of Balkman, Jeffries is only stealing minutes. Frye doesn't have the "ferocity" to be a starter. The same thing could've been said about a reformed "soft forward" in Toronto named Chris Bosh. I think the similarities are there. Frye just has to want it. This is where management needs to sit him down outline a plan with him. If he feels like he can't deliver, he should be moved. That's my 2 cents. I hope guys challenge themselves to get better.

  3. #3
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    Huge Knick fan. Disappointed about the ending of our season. Injuries certainly had a lot to do with our demise, but not everything. We certainly have some flaws to address and I hope Isiah is able to address those. Despite these flaws, I am already excited about the prospect of next year (I think I might say that every year, but I mean it more this time). In order for next year to be a success, the players need to work hard to specific areas of their games and I hope they have the drive to do that!
    CURRY- If someone said Curry would avg 19 and 7 this year and be considered for an all-star selection, we would have all taken it and be excited. I agree with dr. carpy- he needs to work on passing out of double teams, rebounding, timing (blocks and rebounding), and footwork. A 7-10 foot jump shot would help, as Isiah has said. He really has a nice shot (see 3 point shot last night), great form, soft touch.

    Frye-needs to work on post up game to complement his outside touch. has to work on becoming more aggressive and becoming better around the basket. Needs to improve rebounding and shot blocking as well. if he doesn't, he will not become what we hope he will.

    Lee- maintain his high energy level (no doubt he will). needs to improve defense and continue to improve his post up skills (tends to get ball stripped in traffic). consistenly hit 15 foot jump shot!

    Balkman- improve jump shot, otherwise love his energy and athleticism.

    Crawford- how do we make him a pure shooter- that would be ideal! Needs to cut down on turnovers, is very careless with the ball. Also, needs to have the mindset of not taking bad shots and make effort to drive to the basket as often as possible

    Robinson- probably a bench player for his career. he is one of our best shooters, provides energy off the bench. needs to work on cutting down turnovers and making better decisions on the floor

    Jeffries- I agree with Metrocard- he was brought here for his defense and I am not overly impressed with it. I do however believe that b/c of his injury and then suspension, he was never able to get into the flow of the season. He has shown signs of being a scrappy player who gets his hands on the ball, creates deflections, gets some blocks and rebounds. Needs to learn how to shoot (free throws and jump shot). Has counter clockwise spin- never a good sign

    Marbury- needs to heal and continue to build off of what he did this year. Like steph more than ever

    Collins- MUST BE ABLE TO HIT 10-20 FOOT JUMP SHOT CONSISTENTLY. Very impressed with ability to drive to the basket and create. A consistent jump shot will only help that aspect of his game.

    Richardson- not sure what to say. I'd actually like the knicks to use him in the post more often. He needs to work with the strength and conditioning coach to improve his fitness, core strength, flexibility to help him get over his back injuries

    Francis- don't want him here- dominates the ball too much, high turnovers, not what he once was

    Rose- keep him here as long as he never plays and is just a clubhouse guy. Love his energy but don't love his skills!

    I think we need to get a pure shooter- someone who consistently will hit open shots. this will allow Eddy and possibly Q, or C Frye to become better post players because teams won't be able to easily double team. As of now, they double Eddy and we have no answer b/c we have jeffries, balkman, collins, lee, rose, etc

    Untradeables: I would love to build around: lee, curry, balkman, frye (i think you will agree with this after next year, he is a very hard worker and I bet he patches up his game this offseason!) I would trade crawford for a pure shooter any day.

    All I could think of right now. Maybe some replies will get me thinking of other things to say.

    This was my first post. Love the knicks and just hope they can win one championship in my lifetime!!!

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    i will never understand why IT brought this guy in. yes he was injuired and suspended for part of the season, but he has been healthy and playing for a while now, and the only word that comes to mind is ... he sucks.. ok two words.

    going forward if he is our starting forward, i don't see how we move up to the next level 'elite'... ok two or 3 steps up...

    if we look at other teams who are in the playoff's, i don't think jefferies would be a starter on any of them. he's just not that good of a "D" player to overcome his total lack of "O"..

    as to qrich.. i liked his game earlier in the season before his back became an issue... usually when u have a back like qrich it is chronic condition.

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    Your Best Bet is B Ez datruth's Avatar
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    i like jefferies, he does things that dont show up on the stat sheet, right now im currently liking him more than frye, as of right now, frye has got to go

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    I think the only reason Curry is averaging only 18 PPG is because he just started playing well and dominating (on a scorer's point) during the 2nd half of the season. And when I say 2nd half, i mean sometime after the first 35-40 games of the season, and not after the all star break. He probably averages around 22-24 PPG had he been playing the way he has since the start of the season. And I think the numerous turnovers lately can be attributed to him getting even more touches due to the ever growing number of starters getting injured. Overall I think he's definitely on the right direction. He just really has to improve on rebounding and defending. And of course passing out of the double team. He should watch tapes of how Shaq does it.

    I agree with nixrool on Frye. I've been thinking about it all season long. He should also have a post game.

    So far I'm still not impressed with Jefferies. I think it was an overrated acquisition for his "defense".

    We have to admit that Collins and Balkman indeed were much much better than we had anticipated.

    On an overall standpoint I don't think any major changes are needed for the Knicks. But if we could land a bonafide superstar/all-star then why not, especially someone who could infuse more defense into the team.

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    The Knicks need a new trainer and better coaches. Injuries are a lack of conditioning and the coaching staff does not do a good job a fully developing players. Case in point, Mark Aguirre taught Eddy Curry how to post up, but what about expanding his game to facing up to score (which would cut down on the double teams), rebounding on both ends and defending the goal? We should hire Patrick Ewing to work with Curry.

    The Knicks need a good shooting coach too. Allan Houston would be a good choice, if he does not come back to play. We need to get better from the line, which cost us several games this season.

    Lastly, we need to move Jerome James & Steve Francis for draft picks. There is no value in cutting them, but no one will give us value for these two.

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    Originally Posted by starksfor3
    Lastly, we need to move Jerome James & Steve Francis for draft picks. There is no value in cutting them, but no one will give us value for these two.
    the reason no one will give us value is both these guys suck...

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    The Gold Mac MSGKnickz33's Avatar
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    As for Jeffries....I agree with what someone said about likin his game more than frye. I like Jareds length and ability to defend multiple positions. At times he has looked like a great defender. I f he can do this more consistently he'' be deserving of maybe 20 to 25 minutes a game. But I also agree with metrocard about balkmen deserving the playing time and chance to develop. We really did not need jeffries even though i think he'll eventually be an excellent defender, so will balkmen. We're probably stuck with him for now so unfortunately balkmen will have to wait a couple of years unless q rich or someone goes down again. I think channing frye has looked like a piece of ****. I believe he can eventually become a good player and that he has a nice jumpshot but he does not believe in himself. Trade him, Lee is better.

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    Veteran Starks's Avatar
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    $30 million for Jeffries, $60 million total because of salary cap's luxury tax.

    (That doesn't show up on the box scores either huh?)

    Umm yea, so for the luv of God, lets quit applauding this expensive peice of ****. The most valuable thing he's done all season is chase after a few Denver Nuggets. Other than that, what does Jarred fukin Jeffries bring to the table that can't be found anywhere else? Any tall lanky guy can do what he does and more- just draft one, theres a million JJ clones out there in the world. There called "scrubs", or "benchwarmers". I kid u not- they really are out there for about 90% cheaper!!!!!!

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    Originally Posted by Starks
    $30 million for Jeffries, $60 million total because of salary cap's luxury tax.

    (That doesn't show up on the box scores either huh?)

    Umm yea, so for the luv of God, lets quit applauding this expensive peice of ****. The most valuable thing he's done all season is chase after a few Denver Nuggets. Other than that, what does Jarred fukin Jeffries bring to the table that can't be found anywhere else? Any tall lanky guy can do what he does and more- just draft one, theres a million JJ clones out there in the world. There called "scrubs", or "benchwarmers". I kid u not- they really are out there for about 90% cheaper!!!!!!

    "EXACTLY".... i was watching the suns game today, and one of the announcers said the suns did a smart thing last winter in signing barbosa for 5 years at 33m.

    now i understand barbosa is a guard and jefferies is a... well not sure what he is... but what a great signing of a player with lots of upside... and at reasonable $$$..

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    eddy curry: keep improving on your freethrow skills, and practice working outof the double team, i think doing that this summer is more important than working on his face up game, because if you outsmart your double team its gunna lead to easy buckets the same way an 10 foot jumpshot would do. In doing so his turnovers will be cut down.

    Crawford: get healthy, work hard on your defense, and work on your driving and dishing as well as your driving and scoring, he has boatloads of talent, and its not all scoring talent, hes young and has alot of heart, he needs to be strong defensively out on the perimeter. Continue chemistry not only with eddy curry, but other young big men, frye and lee and balkman.

    Collins/ Balkman: both have so much upside, collins showed it alot later than balkman did but all the same. they both need to work on their jump shooting, i think balkman needs to work on his shooting closer in than mardy does. collins needs to be a little more careful with the turnovers, and balkman with all his energy needs to learn when to take it himself, and when to get it to a guard, i see him alot get worked up then come to a stop and have no where to go but turn it over. I love both these guys though, and it makes me laugh to know ppl laughed when we drafted them.

    Lee: get healthy, and develop chemistry with the team, and work on a low post presence, that will only help curry score easy buckets, and open up shots out on the perimeter. keep up the hustle and rebounding.

    Rose: keep him and use him to give you a 15 foot scoring option and veteran know how, shouldnt get more than 10 minutes a game, barring any injuries.

    Richardson: I liked how marbury and him got along when they played i heard they got into it last season, but they showed they can play well together, and he is a great three point threat, and can play defense on tough guys like kobe and mccgrady and wade. he needs just to get healthy and just work harder on the things he does best, shoot and tough defender.

    Frye: i dont know about him anymore, it seems like he is constantly settling for jump shots, and long ones at that. his rebounding suffers cause he shoots those long range shots, and I am at a loss for what he really brings to this team, i dont know weather to get rid of him or work with him.

    Nate: he will eventually learn that he is in the NBA and its a business where hard work and sacrafice pay off. he seems a little nba immature with the eating fast food before games and practicing half court shots all practice. Lately he has shown that he can score and play a well controlled game, he need to cut down on the turnovers and know when to turn it on and when to slow it down and pound it to eddy, i think this summer will do wonders for his basketball knowlege.

    Francis: i dont know he is constanly dribbling the ball and turning it over way to much, i dont see him fitting on this team, and i hope he does well wherever he goes, or decides to retire or whatnot.

    James and Cato: I dont know what to say I like Cato as a person and maybe as a practice guy or a guy to pick up fouls but jerome james is just sloppy all around, he almost like a laughing stock of the NBA, he comes in and just shoots whenever he gets a chance no matter what and hes just clumsly, i cant stand jerome james on this team.

    Marbury: Ive followed him my whole life and this 2nd half of the season is some the most controlled best basketball i have ever seen him play, he was low on turnovers, he took over games, he defended very well, and he just gave it everythign he had, and i believe with everybody healthy were in the playoffs, maybe even the 7th seed looking to make some 1st round noise. He hopefully will condition and get healthy, and i look for the chemistry to be better than ever.

    Isiah Thomas: I think you did a decent job this year, i think you have great respect for your players and in return they have the respect for you, i hope you continue to strive for the best outta them, and i think he will. for some reason he seems just like he is so thought out in everything he does, nothing is unexpected, its hard to explain. I think the knicks will be better than this year if he can his players to stay healthy.

    Jefferies: i dont know, maybe he can prove himself with a summer with the team and no injuries/suspensions.

    i hope i didnt lull anybody to sleep with the long ass post.

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    I completely agree w/ u about erething u said. If we can get a shooter in the offseason it would be the best move the knicks could do 4 this franchise. I'm really expecting the knicks (if they dont go crazy w/ trades in the offseason) to improve and be a playoff team if they can stay healty & I think our chemistry will be one of the best in the NBA.

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    Originally Posted by FameMos
    I completely agree w/ u about erething u said. If we can get a shooter in the offseason it would be the best move the knicks could do 4 this franchise. I'm really expecting the knicks (if they dont go crazy w/ trades in the offseason) to improve and be a playoff team if they can stay healty & I think our chemistry will be one of the best in the NBA.
    so next year we should be competing for a title... cool...can't wait...

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    Veteran GetRealistic's Avatar
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    I'm with everybody that we will be much improved next year, and a lock for a playoff team, but lets not kid ourselves and say were a title contender.

    As far as the things i like on this squad..

    Despite everybody i really think Eddy Curry is going to continue to get better. He doesn't rebound but when we have healthy Lee, Balkman and Richardson in the lineup you can get away with him not being a monster on the boards. He deffinately has a few things to work on. He needs to atleast be a presence defensively, I'm not asking for an all NBA defensive guy just a guy when guards pentrate have to worry about. I want him to average 1.5 blocks a game. He's got the agility to atleast be a shot changer. As far as his turnovers and passing. I really think that can be worked on and atleast be improved allittle. He and the rest of the team need to realize how important reposting is. Kick it in to Curry then he can kick it back out to the guards, get deeper position and recieve the ball much lower in the post. I know the guy is turnover prone but his numbers weren't as drastically bad until guys like Crawford and Q Rich went down. With those two on the court the doubles and triples can't always come because you have two decent 3 point shooters standing on the perimeter.

    Lee, Balkman, Collins.

    The only three guys who coulda made the roster on the old knicks squad. The all hustle, rebound, play defense and just overall are smart players. The only thing the three of these players are missing is jumpshots. If Lee and Balkman could develop that middle range jumper they can be extremly dangerous players. I really think Lee can devolop a jump shot similiar to Charles Oakley at the end of his career. By the end of Oaks career an open 15 footer was money in the bank.

    Collins needs to devolop that medium range jumper, along with a jumper allittle deeper. I can really see Collins devoloping into a more atheltic Eric Snow. If you remember Eric Snow in his prime with the sixers was a very strong player.

    Crawford- I'm not in love with the guy and if the right trade was availabe i would certainly consider it. But all that said i figure hell be here for a long time. I really think he can be a solid 6th man. He and Curry have great chemistry which is a plus, not to mention the fake he has a knack for the dramatic. You can't teach clutch play and he does it.

    Marbury- I've gone on record before saying i'm not a fan of this guy. Hes jjust not a winner and at times doesn't seem motivated. He'll play a great game then dissappear and make a bad turnover or shot at the end of the game.( IE: missing that freethrow against Seattle... theres no excuse for that, you want to be a big time player and a team leader you make that freethrow). All that said hes been great the second half of the season. So this is why i propose trading him. He's getting older makes a ton of money and his stock will never be higher then after this season. Who will take him i have no idea but if u look hard enough you may find a deal for a vetern point with a high expiring salary, and a draft pick that can back up Mardy Collins.

    Q- When healthy was a big time player this year. Will he ever be healthy a full season? probably not. We're stuck with him due to a high salary and injury problems. Just need to hope he stays fairly healthy.

    Jeffries, James, Rose-

    Stuck with them till there contracts run out. Jefferies atleast is getting slightly better as the season progresses. Hopefuly he can atleast be a contributer next year.

    Francis- Do i even need to say it. If anybody still wants him on this team they-re nuts

    Nate- I like him some nigts, and despise him others. If he's needed as a throw in in a potential trade i would gladly let him go. But if he stays he does and some positives to the team.

    Fyre- This guy is softer then Charmane toliet paper. We don't need a 7 footer shooter perimeter jumpers. But the positive is. Hes young, has some potential and some team may be willing to take a shot on him. I would gladly trade him. With Lee and Balkman on the team i'd much rather him them filling those minutes.

    Potential Offseason moves- Carter, Lewis, Ray Allen, KG

    Obviously KG is the guy we want and need. Unfortunately i don't see him ever asking for a trade and leaving Minnesota.

    I want nothing to do with Vince Carter or Rashard Lewis. Carter completely gave up on his team in Toronto, is in love with the 3 ball and just not a guy we need on this team. Lewis reminds me of a more consistant Tim Thomas. The guy can score but do we need another 6-10 3 point shooter who plays no defense.

    The guy i want and think we could seriously land is Ray Allen. He's a top 5 shooter in this league (which we need more then anything). He's a vetern, he plays decent defense, and has been on winning teams. I wouldn't say its a deffiante or anything but maybe packaging some of our Seattle guys could land him.

    My hopeful lineup for a solid playoff team next year.

    Mardy Collins
    Ray Allen
    JJ
    David Lee
    Eddy Curry

    Bench depending on trades and what not

    Crawford or Nate (one goes to seatle)
    Morris
    this years draft pick
    Balkman

    And oh yea learn to make free throws this offseason

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