Originally Posted by metrocard
Your seeing it the wrong way then, just like how you see the MVP's.

NBA wasn't thuggish in the 90s. Grant Hill, Jordan, Penny, Mutumbo etc were class ACTS. NBA was extremely physical, why would you use the word thuggish for? Thats totally off-definition.

Maybe Stern wants to change the rules cause American players aren't adapting to FIBA rules. USA is no longer dominant in FIBA, therefor Stern is mixing some new things. Every decade of the NBA is different, if you don't like this era, then go watch the WNBA. How can you be an old school fan when you're not even 18? Old school is like 70's and 80's Dr. Jay basketball, you're joking right?


Not most, this isn't even an American vs Euro debate, alot of guys in the NBA FLOP who are both American and Euro. At times its taking a charge, and others its a flop. The purpose is to win, both are physical moves in order to win. I see no problem with that, hell let Curry flop all the time since he's the worst defensive big man in the world, it'll most def improve our defense.

How many Euroleague (not on NBATV) games have you watched? You beasting on the flopping now.

Nash is the two time MVP because he led the most dynamatic offense in the NBA in the last 3-4 seasons. He's the most productive offensive player by far if you combine all the assist, points, high FG% 3pt% FT% and his unselfishness.

I thought Lebron should of won MVP over Dirk and everyone, and I don't disagree about Duncan winning MVP.
Noticed how I put quotes around "thuggish"...which would mean that that's the common word for that type of era. haha and you name four players and think I can't name more "thugs" in the league haha. I'm not going to argue with you because I experienced the period...you probably read something on wikipedia or something. It's not arguable.

And you have to realize where I'm coming from...do you even know where this type of play originated? Probably not...too young. But this type of play started when John Thompson of the Hoyas picked an all black team at an all white school (Georgetown if you haven't heard of him) and said let's go to work. He told his players if you don't punish the opponent for getting in the paint and play physical the entire game then he wasn't going to play you...Period.

And you're right...the U.S is not dominant in FIBA anymore. I agree with you 100%. But it's not because they are better than us...it's because our best players or our most needed players are at home. No other country will be better in America in playing basketball. Maybe down the road sometime but not now...the U.S college game is too concentrated with talent. The draft speaks for itself.

Originally Posted by metrocard
How can you be an old school fan when you're not even 18? Old school is like 70's and 80's Dr. Jay basketball, you're joking right?
Do you really believe that? Seriously...do you really believe that. Your assumptions are outrageous.

You have your opinion and I have mine...you're not going to change my mind man. So you can basically drop the flopping subject. Flopping is bad for the sport, it changes the integrity of the sport, and something should be done about it because the last time I checked...you actually have to touch the defender to be a foul right?

Originally Posted by metrocard
How many Euroleague (not on NBATV) games have you watched? You beasting on the flopping now.
How many games in the 70s and 80s have you watched? I mean...you are 18 right? I'm not really interested with the european game which is why I don't really watch it. But if you 1 and 1 together you usually get 2. As I watch the game...a large influx of europeans entered the league and a slight change was felt. Seems like the defense was starting to fade and this throw your hands up and scream as loud as you can while looking at the ref type of action was starting to be the best things to do. As our young children started to watch this...they said hey I want to do that. And that is why you see Americans flop today. You don't see Dale Davis flop...you dont see Gary Payton flop...you don't see clifford robinson flop...because they are old school.

Originally Posted by metrocard
Nash is the two time MVP because he led the most dynamatic offense in the NBA in the last 3-4 seasons. He's the most productive offensive player by far if you combine all the assist, points, high FG% 3pt% FT% and his unselfishness.
And yes Nash is very talented but tell me when I said he wasn't? You don't win MVPs on offensive production alone. How about Hakeem Olajuwon? Not necessarily dominant on the offensive end as he was on the defensive end. My point is that you can throw out every excuse in the book and you're still wrong. You said he led the most dynamic offensive team in the NBA the last 3-4 seasons but what have they accomplished out of that? Nothing! He couldn't make it to the western conference championship...I mean it only took lebron 4 years to get there and nash still has figured it out yet. You say he's the most productive offensive player in terms of assist, points, etc etc...but Jason Kidd has been termed the triple-double king (which the Big O is the true king) and actually led his team to a championship and has won 0 MVPs...IMO...Jason Kidd does everything better than Nash except shooting the rock. Other than that, Kidd has everything beat on Nash. Nash is very talented very very talented...but he's no MVP. If you take Lebron off the Cavs....they don't make playoffs. You take nash of the suns they could possibly be a playoff team. But it seems we have agreed on that. Just look at the before and after of Hakeem Olajuwon, Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Tim Duncan....before the team struggled to win championships, after... every one gotta ring. All MVPs, All with championship rings. Can you say that in Nash's or Dirk's case? A true MVP take over games when there team needs them...Dirk and Nash just don't do that...very talented regular season players that struggle when it comes tot the playoffs.