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Thread: What's Wrong With The League 2

  1. #16
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    Rasheed Wallace after the game...

    "I just get so sick and tired of that cheating (garbage) out there," Wallace said after the game. "All that flopping. They reward flopping. That's not defense. I hope the league does something about that before the next series."

    I agree with you Rasheed...and anyone who plays real defense and has a true love and is passionate for the game would get angry over this "silly defense".

  2. #17
    Superstar ShairanXIII's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Your seeing it the wrong way then, just like how you see the MVP's.

    NBA wasn't thuggish in the 90s. Grant Hill, Jordan, Penny, Mutumbo etc were class ACTS. NBA was extremely physical, why would you use the word thuggish for? Thats totally off-definition.

    Maybe Stern wants to change the rules cause American players aren't adapting to FIBA rules. USA is no longer dominant in FIBA, therefor Stern is mixing some new things. Every decade of the NBA is different, if you don't like this era, then go watch the WNBA. How can you be an old school fan when you're not even 18? Old school is like 70's and 80's Dr. Jay basketball, you're joking right?


    Not most, this isn't even an American vs Euro debate, alot of guys in the NBA FLOP who are both American and Euro. At times its taking a charge, and others its a flop. The purpose is to win, both are physical moves in order to win. I see no problem with that, hell let Curry flop all the time since he's the worst defensive big man in the world, it'll most def improve our defense.

    How many Euroleague (not on NBATV) games have you watched? You beasting on the flopping now.

    Nash is the two time MVP because he led the most dynamatic offense in the NBA in the last 3-4 seasons. He's the most productive offensive player by far if you combine all the assist, points, high FG% 3pt% FT% and his unselfishness.

    I thought Lebron should of won MVP over Dirk and everyone, and I don't disagree about Duncan winning MVP.
    Jordan was a notoriously underhanded player... just like magic, bird, kobe, dr. j, barkley, etc... in the 90s... rivalries were bred because 1. there were less teams so you played guys in your division 5 timess... 2. because there was a real US against the world mentality... now... everybody wants to be the sweetheart team... i'll give you grant hill and penny... but you can't ignore bill lambier, isiah thomas, dennis rodman, anthony mason, john starks, derek harper, motumbo and the elbows, stockton, malone... the physicality of the nineties is gone... the product is diluted... and now there's less reason to care about individual matchups...

    the NBA players aren't adapting to FIBA rules because the international competition was never something they (the NBA) took seriously... they'd slap together superstars and dominate the world after the original dream teams... then guys stopped going cuz of the "lack" of competition around the same time the first generation of internationals (euros, south americans, etc) grew up idolizing basketball players... these guys studied the NBA game and were more prepared than the guys before them... more prepared euros v. third tier NBA talent = bronze medals... now they're fielding a team that competes together for years and has need players at all 5 positions... i think stern adapting his rules has more to do with increasing scores and attracting fans than to "save" USA basketball... the man is a capitalist after all...

    flopping isn't an exclusively european thing (look at how good verajao from brazil does it)... but that doesn't stop it from being a sissy move... it's like penalizing a guy cuz he's stronger than you... i play down low in real life... i know how hard it is to defend someone stronger than you... but front him... double him... but rewarding cowardice? c'mon... rasheed was eating dude's lunch until he started flopping all over the place... sheed gets mad and ejected and the pistons continue to implode... don't get it twisted... i was rooting for cleveland... but the integrity of the win is diminished because of the sheed situation (even though i still think they would have ultimately won)...

    i don't watch euroleague games for the same reason i don't watch the wnba... it doesn't interest me...

    you're right about Nash being a productive player... if not THE most productive offensive player over the last two years... but let's do the real knowledge on phoenix...

    2 seasons before Nash got there (Amare's rookie year)... steph was running the point and i forget who there coach was... they won 46 games i think... took SA to 6... matter of fact... phoenix almost took them out... steph averaged 20 and 8 that year...

    the next season... Amare gets hurt... i think Marion was out for a bit too... they finished 23 and something... trade marbury for mcdyess' contract... sign d'antoni...

    they sign nash with the money they saved from mcdyess' contract... d'antoni comes in with the hi-octane offense and nash is the man on the go... his numbers swell in this primary/secondary/tertiary fast break offense...

    i know if's don't mean anything... but how good do you think steph would look right now if he was playing in d'antoni's system? i don't know if he'd be as good as nash... but the guy was doing something NO ONE but oscar robertson had done (average 20 and 8) before him... who knows if phoenix's success is because of nash...

    i'm not hating on Nash... i hope it doesn't look that way... but i think he is overrated... and to give him so many MVP awards places him in a class that should be reserved for all time greats... like One and Only said... jason kidd is better than nash at everything but shooting... AND... he led his team to the finals... but he never got an mvp award... i think some of this nash love is cuz j-kidd never got one...

  3. #18
    Superstar ShairanXIII's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by The 1 and Only
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    Rasheed Wallace after the game...

    "I just get so sick and tired of that cheating (garbage) out there," Wallace said after the game. "All that flopping. They reward flopping. That's not defense. I hope the league does something about that before the next series."

    I agree with you Rasheed...and anyone who plays real defense and has a true love and is passionate for the game would get angry over this "silly defense".
    yeah... but sheed needs to grow the f**k up too... he's been in the same league for 11 years and needs to stop hurting his team in key situations cuz he disagrees with a call...

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    haha yea that fact isn't arguable. He hurts the pistons so much at critical junctions of the game...he's almost like what stephen jackson is to Golden State.

  5. #20
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    Originally Posted by The 1 and Only
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Rasheed Wallace after the game...

    "I just get so sick and tired of that cheating (garbage) out there," Wallace said after the game. "All that flopping. They reward flopping. That's not defense. I hope the league does something about that before the next series."

    I agree with you Rasheed...and anyone who plays real defense and has a true love and is passionate for the game would get angry over this "silly defense".
    Rashard is a big crybaby, like most guys in the NBA. He killed his own team and is still bitching. If he's such a great defender, why was Lebron in the paint all day like it was his business? Tell Sheed to stop crying and chucking threes. Anderson Varejao made Sheed have a ***** fit and owned him. Cavs win and advance to the finals, wheres the real defense? Ginobili, Varejao, and others, its going to be a FLOP FEST.



    You can't agrue with it. Thug is an insult, most NBA players are professionals, some even business men. Some have made mistakes in their lives, just like other atheletes, what makes NBA players so different to call them thugs? Do your research. Unless you want to define thug, which you showed you're not willing to show your definition of it, then be quiet about it. I'm not going to wikipedia ****, this is me and you, our debate. Don't tell me your going to need to use wikipedia now bro...lol. Just joking here, NBA does alot of charity and community work, they really promote that and done a job of it. Don't let some player's mistake change your perception on the league.

    You're 17, who are you calling too young now? Not everyone is going to coach like John Tompson, and basketball changes every decade. Players are more atheletic, faster, and bigger. Comparing what happend 20-30, even 10 years ago is irrevelant. If you like what happend 20-30 years ago, thats cool, but really weird.

    As for the USA, well in 2004, you guys had Duncan, Iverson, Boozer, Carmelo, Lebron, Amare Stoudimire, Marion, Okafor, Marbury and Jefferson. Thats an awesome team, many all stars, and some of the NBA's top 20 players.

    Besides Okafor, Marbury, and Jefferson, they were mostly all stars. There was no Kobe or KG, but so? Other international countries miss their best players too. They're not as talented as Kobe or KG, but regardless, they are the best from which ever country. Hell, Carmelo had the option to play with Puerto Rico, but he picked USA, and thats more power to the United States. Carmel on PR would of atleast got them a medal. And whats wrong with winning Bronze? Its still a medal, not gold or silver, but USA proved they could win a medal under a team that didn't even practice much together.

    USA isn't dominate, but they're still a top 3 team, and will always be. USA has a future of Paul, Oden, Howard, Carmelo, Roy, Iggy...Kobe doesn't need to be on the USA team, especially with his scoring ego. USA need their role players like Battier. USA can compete with any team in the world, but don't expect them to dominate like before. I honestly expect USA to get gold or silver in the upcoming FIBA olympics.

    but Jason Kidd needs to be on the roster, over any other PG. He would rule in FIBA play.

    How can you be an old school fan when you're not even 18?, your weird my dude. You can atleast appreciate it, but damn you sport it to the death.

    I'm accually 19 right now since you're so interested. If you don't watch Euroleague basketball, then don't speak of it. Its a totally different atmosphere than the NBA, and very competitive fundamental basketball. Not as talented as the NBA, but for people who appreciate fundamental team 5 on 5 basketball, Euroleague is great and fun to watch. You weren't even alive in the 70s, and 80's...you probably sit home all day and watch NBA classic games. That doesn't mean you know everything about old school. Regardless if you did, its irrevelant to today and the era we're in.

    I enjoy the NBA, I love watching the NBA. If you don't, you don't have to watch international guys making their hard earn opportunity in the NBA and appearing in the finals. Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, Oberto, Elson, Beno U, Big Z, Palvavic, and Varejao all in the Finals and its great for the league. The NBA should become global as possible. If you don't like, just sit home all day watching NBA classic games, cause the league is changing and envolving each year. How can you hate on Stern too? He's one of the best at his positions.

    Gary Payton, Clifford Robinson, and Dale Davis are all scrubs, because they are old school.

    Suns accomplished many things. They won 62 games in 04-05 54 games without Amare in 05-06 and now 61 won games in 06-07. Thats pretty sucessful basketball.

    When you say they didn't accomplish anything, you were afraid to come out and say it, but I'll do it for you. Suns didn't accomplish anything cause they didn't win the NBA Finals? I see. So only one team a year can accomplish something? The Mavericks didn't make history this season right? I mean having one of the greatest records in NBA history is accomplishing nothing. So the MVP should be awarded to the best player on the team who accomplishes "something" like win the NBA finals?

    I guess this kid never heard about the NBA Finals MVP.

    Stop comparing Nash to players who aren't even in the league, you're obsessed with older generation players I don't even know what you're talking about. It feels like your giving me a boring lecture on the greatest of the ledgends. I know they're great, thats nice. I didn't say Nash was better than them, so stop wasting your energy typing on something so off topic and irrevelant.

    I like Kidd over Nash, Kidd is accually to me the best PG in the world right now. He's just playing with the wrong players, like a ***** like Vince Carter(and you said American players are all tough, old school and non floppers like Euros). "If" Kidd was on the Suns, they'd kick ass.

    ShairanXIII, Anderson Varejao is an excellent defender. He does other things than FLOP. Rebounding, position defense, he takes more charges than flop. Anderson Varejao changes the pace of the game, cause he's an energy guy who's mostly in the right position at the right time, why hate a guy for being good at that? Who cares if you play down low? You never been in NBA competition, and you never experienced NBA physicallity, ever. Your experience is irrevelant to what guys like Varejao and Kurt Thomas fight through ever night, so why try to use that against me as if saying I have no damn experience or business talking about what is it like in the post? Varejao flops, but Detroit didn't lose because of that. Flopping is becoming overrated honestly, dude acts like if a guy flops, he loses the entire game. LOL, Rasheed is such a defeated *****, guy has one of the worst attitudes in the game, I can't like that guy honestly. Speaking of intregity, where is Sheed's? He should be the last to be complain.

    Rasheed sucked and choked on his team on the 3 most important games of the season. He shouldnt even be complaining. 4-13 5-14 FG preformances? Disgusting. Thats a bigger problem for Detroit than Varejao's flopping.

    Kidd deserved the MVP award when he first played in NJ.
    Nash deserved his two MVP awards, statitically, his team's sucess that season, and how many guys stats improved that season. Doesn't matter if he's overrated or if isn't better than the NBA ledgends. Nash was in the perfect situation, and took that opportunity and capitalized. Thats what sucessful people do, they capitalist on their opportunity.

    Suns offense would be good under any PG. But it wouldn't be great as with a Nash or Kidd.

    To end it, the MVP could of been given to Kobe, Nash, Lebron, Duncan. They're all great players and have a reason for being the MVP. That is what is awesome about the NBA, the talent is insane, the MVP debate is always a hot debate.
    Last edited by metrocard; Jun 06, 2007 at 12:39.

  6. #21
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    I am not 17...get your facts straight You just turned 19...that would mean you are younger than me. Please don't insult me with your assumptions...I have shown respect to your posts and I have only disagreed with you. I only expect the same...

  7. #22
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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    ShairanXIII, Anderson Varejao is an excellent defender. He does other things than FLOP. Rebounding, position defense, he takes more charges than flop. Anderson Varejao changes the pace of the game, cause he's an energy guy who's mostly in the right position at the right time, why hate a guy for being good at that? Who cares if you play down low? You never been in NBA competition, and you never experienced NBA physicallity, ever. Your experience is irrevelant to what guys like Varejao and Kurt Thomas fight through ever night, so why try to use that against me as if saying I have no damn experience or business talking about what is it like in the post? Varejao flops, but Detroit didn't lose because of that. Flopping is becoming overrated honestly, dude acts like if a guy flops, he loses the entire game. LOL, Rasheed is such a defeated *****, guy has one of the worst attitudes in the game, I can't like that guy honestly. Speaking of intregity, where is Sheed's? He should be the last to be complain.

    Rasheed sucked and choked on his team on the 3 most important games of the season. He shouldnt even be complaining. 4-13 5-14 FG preformances? Disgusting. Thats a bigger problem for Detroit than Varejao's flopping.

    Kidd deserved the MVP award when he first played in NJ.
    Nash deserved his two MVP awards, statitically, his team's sucess that season, and how many guys stats improved that season. Doesn't matter if he's overrated or if isn't better than the NBA ledgends. Nash was in the perfect situation, and took that opportunity and capitalized. Thats what sucessful people do, they capitalist on their opportunity.

    Suns offense would be good under any PG. But it wouldn't be great as with a Nash or Kidd.

    To end it, the MVP could of been given to Kobe, Nash, Lebron, Duncan. They're all great players and have a reason for being the MVP. That is what is awesome about the NBA, the talent is insane, the MVP debate is always a hot debate.
    First off... i never said verejao was a bad defender... i said flopping is a ***** way to defend someone stronger than you... if you actually read my post instead of picking it apart... you'd notice that i made a reference to the difference between drawing charges and flopping... which is the same thing you do for 3 sentences... why spend time typing something we both agree on?

    it's interesting that you'd dismiss my experience as a post player... you're right... i never played in the NBA... but i have played with collegiate standouts, top high school prospects and street ballers... i was simply bringing my frame of reference... I know what it's like to bang against stronger guys... and i know what it's like to bang against weaker guys... seems like you got issues with your position... bottom line is... when you're playing someone stronger... there are other ways to defend them... you can front them... move them out of the post (a sharp bow in the lower back is uncomfortable)... deny the entry pass... you don't have to ***** out and flop everytime someone turns a shoulder into you...

    scroll up youngin... cuz i aint 19 either... notice that i said sheed should grow the f*&% up and stop complaining too... again... why waste your time reiterating my position? did sheed's offensive performance hurt detroit? yep... but they were also within striking distance at the time he fouled out... when momentum shifts in a big game... lebron's ridicilous fast break layup... gibson's three... sheed's techs... it's hard to overcome... i would mention my in game experience here again... but i guess only professionals should comment on such things...

    as for Nash v. Kidd... we agree on that... and i never took anything away from steve nash... but the mvp award is something sacred in the nba... prolly more so than the finals mvp... and the sports writers who vote for it were dick riding nash hard the two years he won... AGAIN... this is not Nash's fault... but his awards were fraudulent... given the PRECEDENT set from previous mvp races...

    Since 1 and Only didn't mention it... the "thug" mentality that I speak about is not an insult to the players themselves... but a reflection of the perception of the league from the mainstream... if you stop looking to disagree all the time... you'd notice that we got the same views on a lot of this ****... but you overgeneralize my views...

  8. #23
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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Rashard is a big crybaby, like most guys in the NBA. He killed his own team and is still bitching. If he's such a great defender, why was Lebron in the paint all day like it was his business? Tell Sheed to stop crying and chucking threes. Anderson Varejao made Sheed have a ***** fit and owned him. Cavs win and advance to the finals, wheres the real defense? Ginobili, Varejao, and others, its going to be a FLOP FEST.
    Well said ShairanXIII...I had to address the BS situation before we got down to business lol. Anyways the guys name is Rasheed...just a minor error. But I agree with you on this...didn't you see me agree with Shairan when he said that about Rasheed? C'mon man you gotta read what is said before you state something that doesn't have to be argued. Well I almost agreed with you...Chucking threes? Varejao owned Rasheed? Why was Lebron in the paint all day? Luckily you came to the right with all this queries LOL. First off Rasheed shot some threes...you use the word chuck too loosely...Crawford chucks up shots...rasheed does not. Bad generalization. Secondly, Varejao didn't own Rasheed. Are we watching the same game? If Varejao owned him...then why does he flop against him? Thaaat's right because the only way to beat somebody better than you is to flop and get into rasheed's head which isn't very hard to do by the way. And last but not least why is Lebron in the paint all day? You serious? Pistons played a zone with all 5 players having one foot in the paint and he still was in the paint. Plain and simple, Lebron goes where he wants and no one can really stop him on most occasions.

    Originally Posted by metrocard
    You can't agrue with it. Thug is an insult, most NBA players are professionals, some even business men. Some have made mistakes in their lives, just like other atheletes, what makes NBA players so different to call them thugs? Do your research. Unless you want to define thug, which you showed you're not willing to show your definition of it, then be quiet about it. I'm not going to wikipedia ****, this is me and you, our debate. Don't tell me your going to need to use wikipedia now bro...lol. Just joking here, NBA does alot of charity and community work, they really promote that and done a job of it. Don't let some player's mistake change your perception on the league.
    You're right we can't argue about it. Because you are arguing about the way I use the term but before we were arguing about the way they played in the old school. I can't keep up with you man lol. If you're going to argue a point, please stick to that point or what's the point of arguing it?


    How can you be an old school fan when you're not even 18?, your weird my dude. You can atleast appreciate it, but damn you sport it to the death.

    Originally Posted by metrocard
    I'm accually 19 right now since you're so interested. If you don't watch Euroleague basketball, then don't speak of it. Its a totally different atmosphere than the NBA, and very competitive fundamental basketball. Not as talented as the NBA, but for people who appreciate fundamental team 5 on 5 basketball, Euroleague is great and fun to watch. You weren't even alive in the 70s, and 80's...you probably sit home all day and watch NBA classic games. That doesn't mean you know everything about old school. Regardless if you did, its irrevelant to today and the era we're in.
    You just made yourself look stupid kid. ...should teach not to assume info about other people. That's great that your 19 and everything but no one cares. Only you do...so you can keep that to yourself. And if you're all for fundamentals then watch the WNBA. I watch the WNBA and the NBA and I love both. I could careless about the Euroleague...it doesn't interest me. Possibly if they played some defense and showed that they can be physical then I would possibly watch it. The WNBA show that they can physical...why can't the Euroleague??

    Originally Posted by metrocard
    How can you hate on Stern too?
    Who's hating on stern? I just read my post 50 times and I don't see Stern's name mentioned.

    Originally Posted by metrocard
    When you say they didn't accomplish anything, you were afraid to come out and say it, but I'll do it for you. Suns didn't accomplish anything cause they didn't win the NBA Finals? I see. So only one team a year can accomplish something? The Mavericks didn't make history this season right? I mean having one of the greatest records in NBA history is accomplishing nothing. So the MVP should be awarded to the best player on the team who accomplishes "something" like win the NBA finals?

    I guess this kid never heard about the NBA Finals MVP.
    Then why do they give the season MVP a 1/3 of the way through the playoffs? That's another one of my beefs with the league. The MVP should be given at the end of the regular season. What was the excuse when Amare won ROY over Yao? Because Amare is in the playoffs and Yao isnt...so it goes both ways. But that is besides the point. He's won two MVP's kid...only a handful of players can say that and guess what...they all have rings. When you give somebody back to back MVPs then you are automatically putting that person in a whole different echelon of players. The all-time great echelon. Steve Nash isn't even one of the top 50 players of all time and he has 2 MVPs...wow. Nash is a great PG, but he is also overrated. You prove my point exactly...Nash and the Suns have accomplished nothing this season. They have just as much hardware as we do this season...Nothing. Again...the true MVP's are in the NBA Finals right now...Lebron and Duncan....not Nash.

    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Stop comparing Nash to players who aren't even in the league, you're obsessed with older generation players I don't even know what you're talking about. It feels like your giving me a boring lecture on the greatest of the ledgends. I know they're great, thats nice. I didn't say Nash was better than them, so stop wasting your energy typing on something so off topic and irrevelant.
    Oh...so you're mad that I'm obsessed with the league's all-time greats? The very foundation of players that built the game to where it is today. The exact same players that are idolized by such people as lebron and duncan. The greats that you know nothing about. It's not my fault you don't know your history kid...read a book and you might get a glimpse from the past. I know you didn't say Nash was better than them...that would be obsurd. But what you are doing is legitmizing Nash's MVPs which again puts him in another echelon of players. Can't do that man...because he's not that great to be up in another echelon. The guy hasn't even made it to a championship yet...neither a conference or an NBA championship.

    Originally Posted by metrocard
    I like Kidd over Nash, Kidd is accually to me the best PG in the world right now. He's just playing with the wrong players, like a ***** like Vince Carter(and you said American players are all tough, old school and non floppers like Euros). "If" Kidd was on the Suns, they'd kick ass.
    I agree with you Kidd is surrounded by a soft team. And I agree..VC is soft. And I would like you to show me (quote me by the way) where I said all american players were tough and old school. Show me...show the world where I said that LOL. You'll be looking for days because I didn't say that. Rip hamilton is another soft american player. You over generalize too much, read my words as they are and not what you want them to think.

    I disagreed with you (just like most people on this forum) with more than 75% of the stuff you said but I respect your opinion because that's what I do. I agree to disagree. But I know you're going to respond anyways LOL.

  9. #24
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    The 1 and Only, you are 17. You took your info out of your profile. Last I checked, it said you were 17. You're lying about your age now? Atleast have some confidence in yourself when you type guy.

    Rasheed took 296 3pt shots this season, he took 434 3pt shots the year before. He's one of the biggest chucking big man in the NBA and is completely overrated and SOFT. He always shys away from the point, even Frye is a better rebounder than Sheed. Varejao had more value to his team than Rasheed. Rasheed is too many negatives like chuck up bad shots, not out rebound his oppoent, failing to take high percentage shots and getting all these techinicals and bringing this negative energy to his team. Varejao came in the game and Clevand played with a spark. Its not gonna show up on the stat sheet, but Varejao has great intangles that connects the Cavs together as a team with the BEAST Lebron James who's one of the most talented players I ever witness live since MJ or Carlos Arroyo in the olympics.


    lol...you're the only kid I know that watches the WNBA, you're most def a weirdo.

    Stop showing your retardation, you're smarter than this b

    You said.
    "The WNBA show that they can physical...why can't the Euroleague??"

    First of all, you don't even watch the Euroleague. English wasn't my first language, but physical is a verb now? What language they speak down in there in the country?

    When you win back to back MVP's, it adds to the guy's resume as a sucessful NBA player in his ERA. No one is comparing Nash to players from the 80's and 70's, shut the **** up already about that. Nash isn't going to be a top 50 player of all time. Nash exploded into his prime and blew up. Career wise, Nash is a 14 and 7 player. But why take credit away from Nash for taking advantage of an opportunity in his career? Don't mind me too I curse alot.

    "When you say they didn't accomplish anything, you were afraid to come out and say it, but I'll do it for you. Suns didn't accomplish anything cause they didn't win the NBA Finals? I see. So only one team a year can accomplish something? The Mavericks didn't make history this season right? I mean having one of the greatest records in NBA history is accomplishing nothing. So the MVP should be awarded to the best player on the team who accomplishes "something" like win the NBA finals?"

    You've failed to reply to that.


    If you were so sure on what you were talking about, you wouldn't be...typing...like this...when you...type...like this...you're...thinking...off...bull****...from.. .your...*******...stop...typing...bull****.

    I'm not obsessed with NBA 70's-80's era, but I have an idea of. You could read all the books you want, it's not going to help your agruement if you don't apply the knowledge my brotha. You know whats a terrible thing? Wasted knowledge and talent. Don't be greedy man, share whatever knowledge you got, and save the bull****. If you know about NBA ledgends, that cute. But it has nothing to do with Nash's accomplishes as a NBA player in the 04-07 seasons. Nash did what he had to do in HIS era, and got rewarded for being the most VALUEable player in the NBA.

    As for me, I'm best poster in this forum, highly confidence and the best looking guy in here. You wanna get mad about it? I don't care. Thats what I know and could give a damn what anyone else thinks. I spend my little free time discussing the NBA and my favorite team in sports the Knicks. I'm not looking to disagree or agree with anyone, its sharing knowledge and opinion with others, which you continue to fail at effortlessly. Stop trying to be competitive, its a cooperation (LOL, I stole that from Spirit of Truth...that dude is hilarious)

    Shar, Nash is a deserving MVP. There were other guys who deserved it, but Nash had the most reasons for deserving the MVP those two seasons.

    MVP doesn't mean the best player in the NBA, but the player with the most worth, importance, and impact. Nash show cased that in Phoneix for the last 3 years.





    ..............AND to end this agruement with ease cause I'm sick with it

    Bill Laimbeer has been flopping long before Euro players came in the NBA. And Laimbeer is one of the most toughest "old school" guys to play in the last two decades.

    Flopping started when the nba stopped letting people play defense. It used to be that a travel was a travel, palming the ball was a double dribble, a charge was a charge, and offensive superstars weren't allowed to do whatever they pleased at the expense of good defensive basketball.

    Things changed and the superstar mentality took over. Basically, everytime Jordan, Nique, now Wade, drove the lane and forced contact, it was a block regardless how long the defender had been camping in the lane. Legitimate charges were ignored, to the point it became ridiculous.

    Eventually, that type of officiating rubbed off and instead of just the Jordans getting the calls, then second-tier offensive players from Kenny Smith to Kenny Walker got those calls. For a few years there, nothing was a charge, nothing was a push off, nothing was a travel, and the double dribble, and illegal screen. The only way anybody got a charge call was if the offensive player literally ran over the defender and sent him flying on his backside. When that happened, the refs HAD to make the call against the offensive player.

    So, in response, defenders learned that only flagrant offensive fouls/violations were going to be called, so they had to learn to make everything LOOK flagrant to have any hope of getting the call go the right way. They knew there was not going to be a charge call, even if it was legit, unless you fell down and looked like you had been shot. Other than that it was another blocking foul and the parade of free throws went on and on and on.

    As a result, these dudes learned to flop.

    So, blame it on the officiating that bred the atmosphere by which a defender could not get a call unless he fell down. You are both wrong to say euros are at fault for bringing flopping into the NBA when it was created by the atmosphrere in the NBA that refs created and players had to adjust to. At least they are calling offensive fouls now. Dudes are just doing what they have to do.

  10. #25
    Superstar The 1 and Only's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    The 1 and Only, you are 17. You took your info out of your profile. Last I checked, it said you were 17. You're lying about your age now? Atleast have some confidence in yourself when you type guy.
    Son...I never put my age, location or anything in my profile in the first place so how did you imagine the number 17 in my profile. Face it...you are a kid...I am a man. This subject is not arguable, I know my age...I don't have to let the whole world know what I'm doing when I'm doing it like you do. It's kinda sad really...you lose every part of the argument so now you're trying to argue my age? Let's keep it simple...when you lose an argument, you just lose... quit trying to go personal. I refuse to go back to that point...I thought you learned by now but obviously you didn't. The rest of your argument is garbage and I've proven my points. Just go read my posts a lil harder, I'm sure you'll find the answer. Other than that...God bless you.

    Anyways...the flops have to go...it's violating the game. I don't care if the dude is black, white, puerto rican, moon martian, whatever....it violates the game. Yes the game is changing but I don't know about most of you people...but I want the game of basketball to change for the better not for the worst. And yes...flopping is making the game worse...
    Last edited by The 1 and Only; Jun 08, 2007 at 19:52.

  11. #26
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    Metro...

    sometimes i think you like arguing more than debating though... the last part of your argument was good and mostly true... but it still doesn't mean that flopping isn't bringing down the overall quality of the game... so does ****ty officiating and ****ty rules... and for real... read The 1 and Only's response to the Nash MVP debate... here are the back to back MVPs in nba history:

    Steve Nash (2004 & 2006)
    Tim Duncan (2002 and 2003)
    Michael Jordan (1991 and 1992)
    Magic Johnson (1989 and 1990)
    Larry Bird (1984-86)
    Moses Malone (1982-83)
    Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (1976 and 1977, 1971 and 1972)
    Wilt Chamberlain (1967-68)
    Bill Russell (1961-63)

    you can argue opinions but facts are facts... the greatest players of their eras... the back to back MVPs... are legends that won when it mattered the most... in the finals... the nba doesn't admit it... writers hate admitting it... but with rings come multiple awards... period... nash is the ONLY guy on that list to never make it out of his conference... therefore his MVPs are fraudulent... hopefully... you can argue the substance of someone's words... and not disagree to show how well you can disagree... it just lessens the power of your other arguments my dude... you can do better than that...

  12. #27
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    Originally Posted by The 1 and Only
    Son...I never put my age, location or anything in my profile in the first place so how did you imagine the number 17 in my profile. Face it...you are a kid...I am a man. This subject is not arguable, I know my age...I don't have to let the whole world know what I'm doing when I'm doing it like you do. It's kinda sad really...you lose every part of the argument so now you're trying to argue my age? Let's keep it simple...when you lose an argument, you just lose... quit trying to go personal. I refuse to go back to that point...I thought you learned by now but obviously you didn't. The rest of your argument is garbage and I've proven my points. Just go read my posts a lil harder, I'm sure you'll find the answer. Other than that...God bless you.

    Anyways...the flops have to go...it's violating the game. I don't care if the dude is black, white, puerto rican, moon martian, whatever....it violates the game. Yes the game is changing but I don't know about most of you people...but I want the game of basketball to change for the better not for the worst. And yes...flopping is making the game worse...

    A...man...who...types...like...he...is...always... uncertain...all...the...time.

    Dude, why would I make that up? You had in your profile you were some 17 year old church boy from West Virginia, not even NYC. Now you cleared your profile after I mention this a long time ago. Its nothing to be ashamed of. You use to text like a little e-thug on here before you met me. You don't have to change yourself infront of me...lol @ lying about the ages now. You failed countless times to prove your points....because...you...type...like this. People who type like that don't have a ****ing clue what they're saying. Make some firm statements that are informational and logical dude...why would I agree with bull****? **** that.

    LOL...chill out there reverend, you said "god bless you" ahahahahahaha, mad funny yo.


    BTW, you didn't even reply to my post about flopping, you just regurtitated your bull**** and spewed it at the computer again...read, THEN REPLY...don't restate what you said earlier.
    Last edited by metrocard; Jun 09, 2007 at 19:36.

  13. #28
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    Atleast Shai admits to good post(100% of my post).

    ANYONE can post a list of MVP's, you failed to give an explaination on why Nash is not a deserving MVP in his ERA.

    I already explained to you and the child that no one said Nash is better than those guys on that list, NO ONE here said that. Stop assuming things and bringing useless information that isn't related to why Nash was a deserving MVP for 3 years in a row, and will continue to BE a deserving MVP till he stops producing the numbers he produce.

    Michael Jordan (1991 and 1992)
    Magic Johnson (1989 and 1990)
    Larry Bird (1984-86)
    Moses Malone (1982-83)
    Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (1976 and 1977, 1971 and 1972)
    Wilt Chamberlain (1967-68)
    Bill Russell (1961-63)


    ^ Thats cute. All those guys are better than Nash. Who cares tho?

    2004-05 2005-06
    Nash deserved to be recognized as MVP in the NBA in that TIME PERIOD, not the guys I just listed above.


    The attempts to take credit from Nash gets weaker and weaker. Just let it rest, Lebron, Nash, Kobe, Duncan and KG are all deserving MVP's cause of their value and worth, regardless if their teams win the Finals. Theres an agruement for those 5...and will always be. But there is NO AGRUEMENT at all, to say Nash did not deserve MVP the last two years, only an ignorant slut would agrue that, seriously.

  14. #29
    Superstar The 1 and Only's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    A...man...who...types...like...he...is...always... uncertain...all...the...time.

    Dude, why would I make that up? You had in your profile you were some 17 year old church boy from West Virginia, not even NYC. Now you cleared your profile after I mention this a long time ago. Its nothing to be ashamed of. You use to text like a little e-thug on here before you met me. You don't have to change yourself infront of me...lol @ lying about the ages now. You failed countless times to prove your points....because...you...type...like this. People who type like that don't have a ****ing clue what they're saying. Make some firm statements that are informational and logical dude...why would I agree with bull****? **** that.

    LOL...chill out there reverend, you said "god bless you" ahahahahahaha, mad funny yo.


    BTW, you didn't even reply to my post about flopping, you just regurtitated your bull**** and spewed it at the computer again...read, THEN REPLY...don't restate what you said earlier.

    Atleast Shai admits to good post(100% of my post).

    ANYONE can post a list of MVP's, you failed to give an explaination on why Nash is not a deserving MVP in his ERA.

    I already explained to you and the child that no one said Nash is better than those guys on that list, NO ONE here said that. Stop assuming things and bringing useless information that isn't related to why Nash was a deserving MVP for 3 years in a row, and will continue to BE a deserving MVP till he stops producing the numbers he produce.

    Michael Jordan (1991 and 1992)
    Magic Johnson (1989 and 1990)
    Larry Bird (1984-86)
    Moses Malone (1982-83)
    Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (1976 and 1977, 1971 and 1972)
    Wilt Chamberlain (1967-68)
    Bill Russell (1961-63)


    ^ Thats cute. All those guys are better than Nash. Who cares tho?

    2004-05 2005-06
    Nash deserved to be recognized as MVP in the NBA in that TIME PERIOD, not the guys I just listed above.


    The attempts to take credit from Nash gets weaker and weaker. Just let it rest, Lebron, Nash, Kobe, Duncan and KG are all deserving MVP's cause of their value and worth, regardless if their teams win the Finals. Theres an agruement for those 5...and will always be. But there is NO AGRUEMENT at all, to say Nash did not deserve MVP the last two years, only an ignorant slut would agrue that, seriously.
    Why must you go personal? A real man can hold his tongue...there for you're a lil baby girl that likes to cuss all the time when you get shut down. I've shut you down...you're trying to play a lil word war game with me...now that's cute . Quit acting like one of my females and man up if you expect to hold an argument with me.

    so you are saying that I'm 17, yet you don't even know me. Search this whole site...search the archives since you like to stalk people...show me one shred of evidence that states that I am 17...and get another witness also (since there are none LOL).

    ShairanXIII and I have made valid points to back statements up...you have not. Until you do that...I will not argue with you...you aren't on my level. Everything you say is opinion and not based on fact...step ya game up and quit disrespecting people.

  15. #30
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    Originally Posted by The 1 and Only
    ShairanXIII and I have made valid points to back statements up.
    LMAO...dude, Shairan just totally co-signed with my point about flopping...you're too ignorant and close-minded to even read over it and realize you're totally wrong that Euros are at fault for "bring flopping to the NBA"."

    It doesn't look really cool when you say you get girls online. Only depressed unemployed losers type that **** online, cause they have nothing in reality to brag about. If someone hurts your feelings online don't leave out personal stuff like, cause you make yourself easier to be laughed at...when you try harder you look more desperate you understand? Girls don't like desperate guys.

    Nah, I don't have all the free time in the world like you to be doing that stuff. If you're ashamed of your age, thats fine. Why you're sweating it for? If you really wasn't lying about it, you wouldn't be sweating it, right? Calm down kid...no one is disrespecting you. If you feel you can't add anymore valid informational post about flopping or the MVP discussion, then callate la boca man...don't make yourself look dumb as you already are...or just do what Shar did and be logical, open minded, and reasonable. Basically every reply I did with Shar I co-signed and disagree, I was open to what he was saying, but I also explained clearly my view of the whole agruement. You fail to do everything. I think the only thing you can do properly on this forum is this

    Hahaha, jokes, don't cry about it now.

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