View Poll Results: Is the Randolph trade the best trade Isiah has made?

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Thread: Curry and Randolph

  1. #46
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    Originally Posted by lilman_bklyn
    OK, you do realize that Randolph had these numbers being the number one option on his team right? You realize the Knicks already have a post present right? You realize that Isiah already said that the offense will be ran through Curry right? You realize that there is only one ball to go around on offense right? You realize that the knicks Need an outside threat and an interior defender right? you realize that Zach Randolph is neither an outside threat or an interior defender right? You realize that Zach Randolph averages less blocks than Curry right? You realize that he and curry are the same exact player right? The only good thing about this trade is being able to dump Steve Francis Salary... But then the Knicks turned around and got a player who added 2 more years to the Knicks cap making around the same Francis was making... C'mon people open your eyes, this is not a good trade AT ALL
    You realize you should watch basketball before you make such rediculous statements.
    by your logic, if curry is the #1 option and averaged 19/7. and zach is the #1 option in portland and did 23/10 then by production alone zach should be the #1 option. BUT its not about that, its about building the future thru eddie curry. This was eddie's 1st productive season in his career. This is a good start, now you take the pressure of him to have to score with 3 DEFENDERS ALWAYS ON HIM. He can pass it out, it will rotate to the other side because Zach is lefty and can dominate the weakside a la carlos boozer. The Point is to score the basketball and we will give it to curry all day untill teams double then our next option will be zach on the other side, 1v1 where (if you paid attention to video) zach can hit any jumper inside the 3pt line. and can take it to the whole with no fear. unlike frye who was afraid of getting the cooties.
    people complaining about minutes? zach only averaged 35 min a game. think about that. 23/10 average in 35 mins.
    Like i said b4 zach has an outstanding offensive skill set from everywhere in the court. He can consistently hit jumpers 15-18ft away.

    And stop throwing in the contract details without thinking it thru, im tired of explaining it. Francis was 17mil, INEFFECTIVE and not even playing (untill he got some playing time due to injury) Randolph will be our starting PF and making about 13mil next year. How u dont get that we benefit from is unreal. GMs that stay pat, and dont make attempts to improve their team becuase of "cap reasons" is upsurd. Every Team Has Cap Problems! even the cavs WHO HAVE NO TALENT OUTSIDE James and a limping hughes. They are right at the salary cap. No coach OR GM wants a player making 17mil NOT TO PLAY. So he was going to be bought out, instead we are paying someone to actaully play.
    Also, Frye showed hes not built for inside play and his jumper was too inconsistent, he'll do better somewhere else. Now we have someone who isnt afriad to show up against the top players and teams in this league. Here are his AVERAGES for the last 2 seasons
    vs Detroit- 29pts, 10 rebs
    vs Pheonix- 24pts, 12 rebs
    vs Chicago, Dallas, Utah, Indy, Lakers, Clippers - 23pts, 8 rebs.
    Im sorry but channing frye wasnt going to put those numbers up. frye maxes out at 5 rebs a game -pathetic for a starting PF in the NBA.

  2. #47
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    Eddy Curry Malik Rose, Jamal Crawford, and next years #1 for Kevin Garnett

  3. #48
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    Originally Posted by lilman_bklyn
    OK, you do realize that Randolph had these numbers being the number one option on his team right? You realize the Knicks already have a post present right? You realize that Isiah already said that the offense will be ran through Curry right? You realize that there is only one ball to go around on offense right? You realize that the knicks Need an outside threat and an interior defender right? you realize that Zach Randolph is neither an outside threat or an interior defender right? You realize that Zach Randolph averages less blocks than Curry right? You realize that he and curry are the same exact player right? The only good thing about this trade is being able to dump Steve Francis Salary... But then the Knicks turned around and got a player who added 2 more years to the Knicks cap making around the same Francis was making... C'mon people open your eyes, this is not a good trade AT ALL
    clear salary cap space....for what? so we can get a 20 and 10 kinda guy? we did that already, and all we had to do was give up francis and frye....even if frye was traded after his good rookie year for randolph, i would have accepted that in a heartbeat....have any of you ever watched Zach Randolph play basketball??? curry and randolph are different players, Zach rebounds like KG, or Boozer, or Camby, he just dosent block like them....Randolph has great hands, he steals the ball...at pf, dude has almost 1 steal per game. He shoots the free throw excellently, 82%....he wont have as much turnovers, cuz he wont be have the ball as much.....he wont clog the lane on offence beczuse he can hit shots frye hits on a regular basis.....you may say he is inconsistant, or that frye hits the j better, but you need to actually watch zach, anything around the free throw line is good....this as a great trade...

  4. #49
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    i think randolph and or lee may be traded...lee was being mentioned in the kobe and kg talks but still isnt really a starter (i dont think). whatever team we may trade with picks up a top notch pf and a great backup. obviously minny could use this, and LA could put odom at the 3 and walton backing him up. they would still need a sg which is where i think the deal would hinge on...crawford cant come close to filling kobes shoes. but to recap, any significant trade would probably involve those two.

    i would definitely do the randolph/rj trade but i doubt nj would trade him to a division rival so i guess that wont happen. however, we may be able to do a sign and trade for lewis involving randolph since they have a need for a big man and were over the cap. i think the lewis/randolph trade would be perfect for both teams and we could even trade nate back to seattle. they need a big body and we need a athletic and shooting 3. hopefully thats what happens

    by the way i dont think were trading curry for anyone, probably not even kobe. maybe that will change now that we have randolph but until then he was basically untouchable.

    i agree that q should be our main 3 if he can stay healthy and last year was a bad representation...he makes his money being a great 3 point shooter but injuries slowed him down. its not that easy to shoot js with a bad back. but if he falls through i guess balkman is our man.

    as someone else said randolph has a more complete game than curry. hes a better rebounder (by numbers at least) and definitely has a mid range j that curry doesnt have. neither of them play much d though which will continue to be a major problem.

    i have no problem with trading frye, maybe that knee injury was more serious than we know but with lee hes more or less become expandable.

    i think randolph morris and lee will be the backups for the bigs and hopefully rose and james see minimal playing time.

    randolph can pass out of double teams and has good hands for a big guy....way better than curry. i wonder if theres any way we could split them at center and have lee start with morris backing him up?

  5. #50
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    Originally Posted by Toons
    clear salary cap space....for what?


    Flexibility, more options, elite free agents.

    If this franchise wanted to build around Curry the right way, the last thing they would do is get Randolph.

    Curry needs to dominate the ball to score. Theres only ONE basketball. I've said the same thing with Francis and Marbury.

    Isiah needs to stop getting players who do the SAME THING. As in Marbury/Robinson/Crawford/. Or Balkman/Chandler/Jefferies or Curry/Randolph. I know Randolph does a bit more than Curry and is the superior player to Curry.

    Having two guys who play the same role will not benefit us offensively nor defensively.

    Lets look at the elite big men in the NBA, and how their teams build around them.

    O'Neil(Haslem)
    Garnett(Griffin)
    O'Neil(Foster)
    Bosh(Rasho)
    Howard(Milicic)
    Ming(Hayes)


    The players that play next to these superstars are known for their defense and intangibles. Superstars are given a lot of responsbility, but they can't do everything by themselves.


    We lack defense and intangibles that will make things easier for Curry. Instead, we made things more complicated.


    The only way we won in this thread is VALUE. This trade is a bad formula for sucess in the future.

    We gotta decide who should be the franchise big man on this roster, Randolph or Curry.

    If I had to pick, I would choose Randolph, who's about the same age as Curry, but much better as a player.

  6. #51
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    lee is a better complimentary player but teams werent really scared of him and doubled up on curry. now they cant really double anyone up except maybe our SF's defender. i still think that we may end up trading randolph or maybe even curry.... randolph can play center in the east and he is more of a complete big guy anyway.

  7. #52
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    Remember all the people saying how great the Marbury/Francis backourt was going to be? I remember all these people saying that it will be the best backcourt in the NBA. It didn't work because Marbury and Francis were the same player. Positions need to compliment each other to maximize their benefits and decrease their deficincies. The Randolph/Curry frontcourt is the exact same scenario as the Marbury/Francis backcourt. They don't compliment each other. And does anybody think that Randolph will be happy deferring to Curry? I could see him being a cancer to any chemistry the Knicks previously had.

    The Knicks needed a rugged shot-blocking/intimidating power forward and a legit 3-point shooter at the SG/SF position. They have addressed neither of these needs.

  8. #53
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    i agree we need both those needs but the first is hard to come by, only ones that come to mind are joneal, kg and camby. the 3 point threat may be shard but hes not that consistent. i think the difference between sg/pg and pf/c, particularly in terms of body types and responsibilities are way different. pf and cs both have to defend the paint and score inside/rebound. lee and curry already do that and so does randolph. i think they can maybe play off each other in terms of double teams but as long as they all get touches it might work. the responsibility comes to the pg to distribute the ball. thats what the problem with marbury and francis really was...neither of them like to pass first that much, although marbury is starting to come around. id be interested to see if isiah tried running dickau or jones at the point and letting marbury play the 2.

  9. #54
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Remember all the people saying how great the Marbury/Francis backourt was going to be? I remember all these people saying that it will be the best backcourt in the NBA. It didn't work because Marbury and Francis were the same player. Positions need to compliment each other to maximize their benefits and decrease their deficincies. The Randolph/Curry frontcourt is the exact same scenario as the Marbury/Francis backcourt. They don't compliment each other. And does anybody think that Randolph will be happy deferring to Curry? I could see him being a cancer to any chemistry the Knicks previously had.

    The Knicks needed a rugged shot-blocking/intimidating power forward and a legit 3-point shooter at the SG/SF position. They have addressed neither of these needs.
    yes I have the same concerns, but unlike Francus, Zach is still tradable, he's exactly the player the Bulls would need, so if it doesn't work then there is the option of trading him. I think Zach is the player we hoped Channing to become, so really we just fast forwarded Channing progress so to speak...and another thing I like to see Carmelo pull that same move on Zach that he did Channing during the brawl!

    I think Zach and Eddy are more Vince and RJ than Steph and Francis, still not a prototypical fit, but not a total mismatch

  10. #55
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    i just read that darius might be gettin traded to NY for malik rose, this was suppose to be part of the deal but malik rose wasnt able to be dealt until july 1st for some reason, dont know if this is true but it makes sence cuz isiah has always been a fan of D.Miles, i guess D.Miles and Q are going reunite

  11. #56
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    You know what I'm getting real sick of? A Knicks team that looks good on paper. On paper a player scoring 24ppg along side a player scoring 20ppg along with other **** looks great... But there comes a time when chemistry is needed. I can't believe i'm agreeing with metro but he is right.. you don't get a player that does the same exact thing as your star in order to compliment him. I want someone to tell me the last time 2 primarilt post players played on the same team and that team was sucessful. I want you all to dig into your memory banks and find a successful team, not even a championship team. It doesn't friggin work.
    GiantsKnickFan stated "He can consistently hit jumpers 15-18ft away." This may be all true and all, but what's even more true is the majority of his 24ppg came in the paint. So if he can or can't hit that 15-18 foot J is really no concern when the fact of the matter is, he is comfortable 'in the paint and thats where most of his points come from. he also said "now you take the pressure of him to have to score with 3 DEFENDERS ALWAYS ON HIM. He can pass it out, it will rotate to the other side because Zach is lefty and can dominate the weakside a la carlos boozer." I don't understand how exactly this is suppose to work. Boozer is the primary post player on the Jazz and the movement offense that is run by the Jazz gets Boozer those open shots from the free throw in... I don't know if you watched the Knicks last season, but we don't do that. So when Zach is chillin on the left side of the Paint and Curry is on the right, I guess the defenders are going to move out the way just so Eddy can pass the ball to Zach right, or maybe Curry can just pass the ball through the defenders from the right side of the paint to Zach on the left side. Please write up a play on how this works because i'm not understanding your concept.

    The fact of the matter is the knicks have good players, and the parts to possibly make them a very good team Steph @ point, Lee @ PF, Curry @ Center, getting a Shooter or SHot blocker would have improved the Knicks 10 fold in my opinion.

    Like I stated before, the trade is good because the Knicks were able to get rid of Francis, and clear up the guard situation for the most part. But the trade only improves the Knicks on Paper.

  12. #57
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    well i guess the best case scenario is we trade randolph to address the shooting needs since i doubt we can trade him for a different post player unless a kg deal works out. also noone expects randolph to put up the same numbers but if he can fit in think of the damage two wrecking-ball type big man can dish out down low to the other teams frontcourt in terms of fouls

  13. #58
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    Originally Posted by lilman_bklyn
    You know what I'm getting real sick of? A Knicks team that looks good on paper. On paper a player scoring 24ppg along side a player scoring 20ppg along with other **** looks great... But there comes a time when chemistry is needed. I can't believe i'm agreeing with metro but he is right.. you don't get a player that does the same exact thing as your star in order to compliment him. I want someone to tell me the last time 2 primarilt post players played on the same team and that team was sucessful. I want you all to dig into your memory banks and find a successful team, not even a championship team. It doesn't friggin work.
    GiantsKnickFan stated "He can consistently hit jumpers 15-18ft away." This may be all true and all, but what's even more true is the majority of his 24ppg came in the paint. So if he can or can't hit that 15-18 foot J is really no concern when the fact of the matter is, he is comfortable 'in the paint and thats where most of his points come from. he also said "now you take the pressure of him to have to score with 3 DEFENDERS ALWAYS ON HIM. He can pass it out, it will rotate to the other side because Zach is lefty and can dominate the weakside a la carlos boozer." I don't understand how exactly this is suppose to work. Boozer is the primary post player on the Jazz and the movement offense that is run by the Jazz gets Boozer those open shots from the free throw in... I don't know if you watched the Knicks last season, but we don't do that. So when Zach is chillin on the left side of the Paint and Curry is on the right, I guess the defenders are going to move out the way just so Eddy can pass the ball to Zach right, or maybe Curry can just pass the ball through the defenders from the right side of the paint to Zach on the left side. Please write up a play on how this works because i'm not understanding your concept.

    The fact of the matter is the knicks have good players, and the parts to possibly make them a very good team Steph @ point, Lee @ PF, Curry @ Center, getting a Shooter or SHot blocker would have improved the Knicks 10 fold in my opinion.

    Like I stated before, the trade is good because the Knicks were able to get rid of Francis, and clear up the guard situation for the most part. But the trade only improves the Knicks on Paper.
    Not that I'm putting Curry and Randolph on the same level, but I think David Robinson and Tim Duncan did a pretty good job together.

  14. #59
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    Originally Posted by pyotrveliky
    lee is a better complimentary player but teams werent really scared of him and doubled up on curry. now they cant really double anyone up except maybe our SF's defender. i still think that we may end up trading randolph or maybe even curry.... randolph can play center in the east and he is more of a complete big guy anyway.
    Lee was not the reason teams doubled up on Curry.
    The reason why Coach Skiles and Coach Larry Brown never put Curry in the game at crunchtime was Curry will get doubled or trippled team because every NBA team scout knows that Curry does not know how to pass the ball, especially under pressure.
    Dont worry, Curry has two starting teammates "Zack & Jefferies" that has the same problem he has (No Passing Skillz to teammates), so dont expect any "TEAM-BALL-PLAY" from the Knicks Starters this upcomming season. Recall: Marbury & Crawford have that one to many dribble in their passing-game.

    Yes, the Knicks are not finished trading this offseason, and no team is taking Zack off the Knicks hands any time soon. Another selfish player to add on the Knicks selfish player list.

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    Originally Posted by wymm
    Not that I'm putting Curry and Randolph on the same level, but I think David Robinson and Tim Duncan did a pretty good job together.
    A more accurate comparison is..... Sprewell and Houston, again not a perfect compliment to each other by no means, but not totaly conteractive.

    Now another Francis and Steph duo would be if we added Shaq to team up w/ Eddy

    So to wrap things up

    Zach and Eddy = Houston and Spree or Jefferson and Carter

    Shap and Eddy = Marbury Francis

    I'm totally sold on it working, but we'll see after the first couple of weeks into the season.

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