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Thread: Lee for Artest: I really put alot of thought into it

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    Default Lee for Artest: I really put alot of thought into it

    If Sacramento askes for Lee, for us to get Artest, I would do it.

    Why? Not just because Artest is an all star caliber player and elite defender.

    Because everything Lee can bring to this team, Balkman brings it too, but Balkman is much more athletic and a superior defender. Plus, Balkman had a better rookie year and I can see Balkman averaging David Lee-like sophmore numbers this season.

    Balkman per 40 minute stats are insane. He averages a double double, with Gerald Wallace/AK47 defensive type stats.


    Balkman is the SF of the future. But with Artest AND Balkman, our perimeter defense will be insane, along with Marbury and Richardson, our defense would definately be upgraded.

    David Lee is my favorite Knick, thats why I really thought about it. I realized Balkman can be better than Lee, and Balkman's potential is REALLY bright and was a steal at 21. I am wrong for doubting Isiah at 21, he really made me eat my words, cause Balkman is going to be a BEAST.

    Knicks
    Lee
    Robinson
    Rose
    Jefferies

    Kings
    Artest
    Thomas
    Garcia


    Why for Sacramento:
    They get a real rugged PF and the rebounding they need in Lee. Lee is a young player that can shine out west and be their PF for the next 10 years.
    They get a Bobby Jackson-like back up PG in Nate Robinson, something they desperately need. With the loss of Artest, they'll get Jefferies, a 25 year old SF known for his defense. They'll also get an expiring contract in return with Malik Rose.

    Why for New York.
    Defense was one of our biggest weaknesses. It has been for the last 5 years. We get 3 excellent defenders in Artest, Thomas and Garcia.
    Artest only has one year left in his contract. Thomas only has two. Garcia is a shooter/shot blocker, so another plus for New York. We finally get Artest, another all star caliber player who will increase our chances of competing in the Eastern conference playoffs.


    Sacramento Kings
    Bibby
    Martin
    Jefferies
    Lee
    Hawes

    New York Knicks
    Marbury
    Richardson
    Artest
    Randolph
    Curry

    Bench
    G - Collins
    G - Crawford
    G/F - Garcia
    F - Balkman
    C - James


    That squad is balling.

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    Superstar WVKnickfan's Avatar
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    Im going to give you my take and you will probably not like it.


    Trading away David Lee just to get artest would probably rank up there as one of the worst trades in knick history.Lee made a monsterous leap from his rookie year to last year with his outstanding play on and off the court.Lee is going to keep getting better and better year after year and he would imo be one of the center pieces for the Knicks for years to come and he is a team player and he has a great additude.Now for Artest,sure he is a very talented player that can play great defense BUT the man has MAJOR problems.He is no team player,his personality sucks along with his additude and he is a major problem when he does'nt get his way.He is a major pain were ever he goes and destroys every franchise that he plays for.Now metrocard is that what you really want?? are you willing to throw a very young player thats going to be a BEAST in the NBA away for a me me me kind of player like Artest.Artest is a punk and I don't want him in a Knicks uniform.

    metrocard,I can't make you change your mind but I really hope that you read what I have written and think about it b/c trading away lee for Artest would be a monsterous mistake.

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    I dont think we have to include Lee in a deal to SAC. They obviously want him, but i think we have enough leverage in the fact that artest wants NY. You say Balkman could turn into a David Lee type guy, but thats a huge COULD. Balkman is much more of a perimeter player, and its very difficult for me to simply assume he could turn into a top 10 NBA rebounder as David Lee has done. Lee not only brings rebounding, but hes extremely intelligent out on the floor and knows his role in the offense.

    I do see Balkman turning being a better defender, but once again i dont think he will be able to guard the PFs that Lee can. One can argue that Lee's rebounding void will be filled by Randolph, but there is something to be said for the kind of hustle and intelligence Lee brings to go along with his great attitude on and off the court.

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    Superstar WVKnickfan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GM_in_2020
    I dont think we have to include Lee in a deal to SAC. They obviously want him, but i think we have enough leverage in the fact that artest wants NY. You say Balkman could turn into a David Lee type guy, but thats a huge COULD. Balkman is much more of a perimeter player, and its very difficult for me to simply assume he could turn into a top 10 NBA rebounder as David Lee has done. Lee not only brings rebounding, but hes extremely intelligent out on the floor and knows his role in the offense.

    I do see Balkman turning being a better defender, but once again i dont think he will be able to guard the PFs that Lee can. One can argue that Lee's rebounding void will be filled by Randolph, but there is something to be said for the kind of hustle and intelligence Lee brings to go along with his great attitude on and off the court.

    Thank you I agree 110% man!!

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    Superstar ShairanXIII's Avatar
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    i agree with these cats... why trade away dlee when we have the leverage to offer lesser pieces and keep him... besides... like i said on another thread... ronny has a history of alienating teammates... we should be more concerned he doesn't damage any positive momentum we may have...

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    they cant trade a way lee. he is the most important part of the knicks being a playoff team besides marbury. he will win 6th man where as artest will just get into trouble.

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    "**** the Zach Randolph Trade"
    I agree with the detractors but at the same time, and i can't believe i'm saying this, I can see where metro is coming from. Lee at this point is the most marketable knick. and even though I don't like the trade, the fact of the matter is Zach Randolph can rebound and score. That provides the knicks with a little wiggle room. Of course, you lose Lee's hustle and heart , but you gain artest hustle and heart. But, at the same time, the kings want to get rid of artest and every1 knows it. theres no reason to pay top money for something that someone is begging to get rid of.
    Very tough! but in the end, the Knicks, I believe if Isiah stands strong, the Kings should blink first
    Last edited by lilman_bklyn; Jul 06, 2007 at 01:05.

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    Originally Posted by lilman_bklyn
    "**** the Zach Randolph Trade"
    I agree with the detractors but at the same time, and i can't believe i'm saying this, I can see where metro is coming from. Lee at this point is the most marketable knick. and even though I don't like the trade, the fact of the matter is Zach Randolph can rebound and score. That provides the knicks with a little wiggle room. Of course, you lose Lee's hustle and heart , but you gain artest hustle and heart. But, at the same time, the kings want to get rid of artest and every1 knows it. theres no reason to pay top money for something that someone is begging to get rid of.
    Very tough! but in the end, the Knicks, I believe if Isiah stands strong, the Kings should blink first
    Thank you.

    All I ask is for people to see more into Balkman. Balkman was extremely important last season for all the runs we had, along with Lee.

    Lee is my favorite Knick, but when a player like Artest is on the line, I would throw Lee in the deal. If Kings will do the deal without Lee, then BETTER for the Knicks.

    If your agruement is that Artest personality "sucks" then its a very poor agruement. Guys with trouble attitude's in the NBA have proven they can change. Stop looking into the past so much and lets focus on what we got. We need Artest cause we're poor defensively. Its not a risk, because we're a winning basketball team yet. You think the Spurs would gamble with Artest and let his crazy Queensbridge ass run wild in quiet old San Antonio? Nah. We need to take a risk in Artest, just like how Isiah took a risk on Randolph. Artest > Randolph. Give me elite defense and toughness over 23 ppg on one of the worst teams in the NBA.

    GM_in_2020, Lee can't guard PF's one on one. He has alot of potential though, and I believe Lee will develop into a strong post defender some day. I've seen Balkman hold his own against PF's forget the fact Balkman is a skinny dude, he has excellent footwork for a post defender. Balkman is the BEST post defender/perimeter defender we had last year. Without Balkman, you would of been looking at another 23 win season. Hell, you would be looking at Greg Oden in a Bulls jersey.

    Balkman is much more versatile. They're both not great perimeter players.

    Its difficult for you to "simple" assume Renaldo Balkman can turn into a top 10 NBA rebounder?

    Well, I'll help you.

    Balkman and Lee has similar rookie stats.
    Balkman in 40 minutes per game averages almost 12 rebounds a game. If we give Balkman 30 minutes a game, he can average 10 or more rebounds easily.
    Balkman has a QUICK leap, great foot work, and is a beast on the boards already. We've seen flashes of his greatness. If you haven't, you gotta rewind all of the 68 games Renaldo Balkman has played them and watch them over again.


    But I'll repeat, keeping Lee will only make Knicks look like the superior team in this deal. Lee is the most VALUABLE trading piece we have, which is why we have so many teams trying to get him. I would love to keep him. But people can't forget about Balkman's ability.

    Just having Artest and Balkman together would solidfy the perimeter defense for the next 5 years. Keeping Lee would make us one of the nastiest teams in the East.


    How will Lee play though, Randolph usually gets 38 mins a game. Curry 35 mins. Lee to play back up PF/C? I want to see Lee atleast get 32 minutes or more, whether its starting or off the bench.

    Same with Balkman.

    lilman_bklyn, **** Randolph being on this team. The Randolph trade was good, cause we dropped Francis and bitch ass Frye, and got two expiring contracts. We need to drop Randolph cause we already have LEE. I would do Randolph for Artest/Thomas straight up. I still can't imagine Curry and Randolph being on the same court together, especially on defense.


    One thing this thread has taught is that people need to stop sleeping on Balkman.

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    The Knicks were 9.2 pts per 100 poss better on defense when Balkman was on the court. (thats Bruce Bowen type of efficiency) Balkman is the shut down defender we need to improve our defense. Statistically he was one of the best defenders in the league last year. I know his stats are slightly inflated because he came off the bench but even so they are impressive.

    From that, this is how I rank the most important Knicks of the 2006-07 season+

    1. Marbury
    2a. Balkman
    2b. Lee
    3. Curry
    4. Richardson
    5. Collins

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    Next season, keep waiting donchris's Avatar
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    I fist must say that a sixth man is not the most important part of any team. You make a good point about Balkman but I'd like to see him and Lee play side by side. They both bring allot of energy off the bench. Lee shouldn't be traded for Artest. Sacramento will give Artest away for table scraps. Give them Rose and Jeffries. If they want more than that throw in Nate and tell the to go #$*& them selves.

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    Member brooklyn_baller's Avatar
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    I don't think that would work. Ron Artest has a very big ego and there is on room for one in Stephon on the Knicks. Plus, Lee is our top rebounder and that's what we have been lacking in the past seasons. Why give up a good, solid rebounder for another star with a anger management problem. There would be more fights in NY than ever.

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    I know a lot of ppl are gonna think i'm nuts 4 sayin this, but... I strongly believe that not only will Balkman be waaaay better player than Lee but, he will also be (IMO) a top 15-20 player in the NBA in 5 yrs if he improves his entire offensive game (which is possible). Balkman can D u on the perimeter and the post...he can rebound...he can block shots...he has nice passing skills....he's got decent handle...he's got amazing athlethism...he's a team player....he has great instincts...he's tough and he plays hard
    But if we get Artest, that would make the Knicks the Fav. in the Atlantic div. and a top 3 team in the East. I doubt we'll trade him 4 Lee tho. and if we do, Zeke needs 2 be fired. Artest will opt out of his contract so if the Knicks give up 2 much 4 him that wouldn't be good @ all

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    Originally Posted by FameMos
    I know a lot of ppl are gonna think i'm nuts 4 sayin this, but... I strongly believe that not only will Balkman be waaaay better player than Lee but, he will also be (IMO) a top 15-20 player in the NBA in 5 yrs if he improves his entire offensive game (which is possible). Balkman can D u on the perimeter and the post...he can rebound...he can block shots...he has nice passing skills....he's got decent handle...he's got amazing athlethism...he's a team player....he has great instincts...he's tough and he plays hard
    But if we get Artest, that would make the Knicks the Fav. in the Atlantic div. and a top 3 team in the East. I doubt we'll trade him 4 Lee tho. and if we do, Zeke needs 2 be fired. Artest will opt out of his contract so if the Knicks give up 2 much 4 him that wouldn't be good @ all
    Co-sign to the max. If Balkman develops a little post moves and a jumper, watch out. He blocks, steals, passes, rebounds like a God, can drive to the basket, explosive dunks, always hustling for loose balls. I can't believe Isiah found a talent like him in the first round. Isiah really made me look dumb with that pick.

    People continue to talk about Artest "anger" problems over and over. LOL, the dude is in Kenya helping hungry children right now. You guys are so clueless about Artest its really funny.

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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    People continue to talk about Artest "anger" problems over and over. LOL, the dude is in Kenya helping hungry children right now. You guys are so clueless about Artest its really funny.
    Wow...I didn't even know that. It's not like dude is a 'Bad Guy,' he's just got some issues upstairs is all. Nothing a few meds couldn't handle lol jp

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    i'm w/ metro on this one. Balkman and Lee are two very similar players. Lee is obviously the more marketable of the two. Every team in the league would kill for Lee, but lets ask ourselves this: How good is David lee????

    He cant defend, He cant shoot. We all ignore this because he's such a likeable guy. Especially for NYC where historically, we always like blue collar under dog type players (starks mason ward)

    Lee is not going to be anymore sought after next season because he's not going to be as prominent. Not with Zach Morris Balkman needing minutes.

    We got a hug chip in Lee, and I think evanthough we shouldn't deal him, we should not hold him as high as we do. And the only reason why I say Lee should get traded over Balkman, is because Lee's face is more out there to GMs

    think about it guys

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