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Thread: Steph marbury..what ranking does he deserve on top PG list

  1. #31
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    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    I'm not inconsistent. Billups does not impress me at all overall. Payton has 1, Parker has 3, Cassell has 2...championships. Billups as won 1 title...1 finals mvp. My list was made in conjunction with career, and post season accomplishments. I figured any fool could see that...

    Every player on my list with the exception of Williams and Paul...those two being projections...has a great career and some playoff heroics to go along with them....Williams last playoff series doesn't count till he does it a few more times..and he was strong against SA.

    Chauncey in my view is a one hit wonder...he wasn't doing **** till he got to Detroit..and when he hooked up with LB. Hell, Avery Johnson has 2 titles...had a long career...and he's not on my list. Kenny Smith is not on my list either...

    My scores are composites between career, playoffs, and finals if applicable...all Chauncey has is 1 title...yeah yeah they have been to the Eastern Conference finals 5 times in row. They key to those teams was everyone none of the Pistons really stand out, at all.
    You still smoking that ****?

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    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    I'm not inconsistent. Billups does not impress me at all overall. Payton has 1, Parker has 3, Cassell has 2...championships. Billups as won 1 title...1 finals mvp. My list was made in conjunction with career, and post season accomplishments. I figured any fool could see that...

    Every player on my list with the exception of Williams and Paul...those two being projections...has a great career and some playoff heroics to go along with them....Williams last playoff series doesn't count till he does it a few more times..and he was strong against SA.

    Chauncey in my view is a one hit wonder...he wasn't doing **** till he got to Detroit..and when he hooked up with LB. Hell, Avery Johnson has 2 titles...had a long career...and he's not on my list. Kenny Smith is not on my list either...

    My scores are composites between career, playoffs, and finals if applicable...all Chauncey has is 1 title...yeah yeah they have been to the Eastern Conference finals 5 times in row. They key to those teams was everyone none of the Pistons really stand out, at all.
    This list was poorly thought out.

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    Just because you are on Marbury's nuts as a point guard does not mean everyone has to agree with you. Like I said I think there are better point guards in the NBA than him. I told you how I came up with my composite, you don't like it that's just too damned bad. Of all the point guards that have entered the league counting from 1990 and on....I would rank several ahead of him...Marbury would make my top 20...but not my top 10. I'm basing this on accomplishment...and not just career average...

    You want to give Steph all the excuses in the world for not leading a team to one playoff series win...NOT ONE. Ahh he didn't have help, he had guys that were injured, he left before they could develop whatever...you want to be a Marbury apologist fine.

    I still think the KNICKS need to move him...and get someone else...because you cannot win with him...teams have been more successful without him at the helm of the PG position...not to mention we could use the cap space.

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    Spot on. The point is that teams get better after Marbury leaves and we need to take that lesson to heart. The problem is that even though Marbury plays like a lower tier player he is paid like an upper tier player and the rest of the league knows teams don't win with him on the roster. So we are stuck like chuck with this guy.

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    Only us Knick-Fans would put Stephon Marbury in the TOP 10 PG in the league right now.

    The Marbury Hype is over you could not trade Marbury for Brevin Knight or an Old Sam Cassel if the contracts were the same.

    The Knicks would've been in the last two seasons playoffs if the Knicks had Mike "Henry" Bibby at the PG rather than Marbury.

    Marbury average 36 MPG in his career with the Knicks.
    Marbury is only affective in the halfcourt set (inconsistency though).
    His running game is questionable and the last time you seen his running game was when he was in a Phoenix Suns uniform.

    The Knicks young Players want to RUN, and get into a fastpace transition game on bothsides of the court however, Marbury and Curry 35 MPG halfcourt offense dont let the young players play their game.

    Kidd
    Billups
    Nash
    Arenas
    Iverson
    Parker
    Cassel
    Bibby
    T.J Ford
    Chris Paul
    Payton

    The above is 11 Star NBA PG that show and prove each season that their performance is much better with their teammates than Marbury.
    There are other PG like Hindrich, Baron Davis, Deron, Mo Williams, that has proved in the last 3 seasons their performance is above Marbury in so many standards.

  6. #36
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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    AI = SG most of career, Snow played most of the PG in Philadephia, Blake in Denver. But you can also come back at me saying AI was the lead guard most of his career and basically was the offense of his team, meaning the leader.

    Baron Davis has been injury prone, if he wasn't, I would agree also.
    [b]AI played point at GT and in his first 2 or 3 years... then LB shifted him to 2... but yeah...

    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    I'm not inconsistent. Billups does not impress me at all overall. Payton has 1, Parker has 3, Cassell has 2...championships. Billups as won 1 title...1 finals mvp. My list was made in conjunction with career, and post season accomplishments. I figured any fool could see that...

    Every player on my list with the exception of Williams and Paul...those two being projections...has a great career and some playoff heroics to go along with them....Williams last playoff series doesn't count till he does it a few more times..and he was strong against SA.

    Chauncey in my view is a one hit wonder...he wasn't doing **** till he got to Detroit..and when he hooked up with LB. Hell, Avery Johnson has 2 titles...had a long career...and he's not on my list. Kenny Smith is not on my list either...

    My scores are composites between career, playoffs, and finals if applicable...all Chauncey has is 1 title...yeah yeah they have been to the Eastern Conference finals 5 times in row. They key to those teams was everyone none of the Pistons really stand out, at all.
    soooooooo... if your scores are composites between career, playoffs and finals... shouldn't chauncey be on your list anyway? his season averages (since coming to detroit) are 16 pts, 5 assts, 3 rebs, 1 steal... his playoff stats are even better 18 pts, 6 assts, 4 rbs, 1 steal... finals MVP and one chip... Payton has won no titles, no regular season MVPs, not even DPY... then you add Williams and Paul who have accomplished nothing and continue to say your list is valid...

    Steph has career playoff averages of 19.4 pts, 6.7 assts, 3.8 rebs and 1.6 steals in 18 playoff games... season career averages are 19.9 pts, 7.9 assts, 3.0 rebs, 1.0 steal... since finals only count if applicable... I dare you to name someone else on your list who has better numbers than Steph...

    be for real... you don't like Steph or Chauncy... don't front like you made an objective list when you used the same subjective criteria that you blame Metro for using...

    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    I'm basing this on accomplishment...and not just career average...

    You want to give Steph all the excuses in the world for not leading a team to one playoff series win...NOT ONE. Ahh he didn't have help, he had guys that were injured, he left before they could develop whatever...you want to be a Marbury apologist fine.

    I still think the KNICKS need to move him...and get someone else...because you cannot win with him...teams have been more successful without him at the helm of the PG position...not to mention we could use the cap space.
    ummmmm... yeah... definately not biased against steph... i take it back...

    Originally Posted by jimkcchief88
    Spot on. The point is that teams get better after Marbury leaves and we need to take that lesson to heart. The problem is that even though Marbury plays like a lower tier player he is paid like an upper tier player and the rest of the league knows teams don't win with him on the roster. So we are stuck like chuck with this guy.
    Minnesota won... Phoenix won... the Knicks won in his first year... THE ONLY TEAM THAT DIDN'T MAKE THE PLAYOFFS WITH MARBURY WAS NEW JERSEY... this is a fallacious argument... get your facts right before spitting on steph...

    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    Only us Knick-Fans would put Stephon Marbury in the TOP 10 PG in the league right now.

    The Marbury Hype is over you could not trade Marbury for Brevin Knight or an Old Sam Cassel if the contracts were the same.

    The Knicks would've been in the last two seasons playoffs if the Knicks had Mike "Henry" Bibby at the PG rather than Marbury.

    Marbury average 36 MPG in his career with the Knicks.
    Marbury is only affective in the halfcourt set (inconsistency though).
    His running game is questionable and the last time you seen his running game was when he was in a Phoenix Suns uniform.

    The Knicks young Players want to RUN, and get into a fastpace transition game on bothsides of the court however, Marbury and Curry 35 MPG halfcourt offense dont let the young players play their game.

    Kidd
    Billups
    Nash
    Arenas
    Iverson
    Parker
    Cassel
    Bibby
    T.J Ford
    Chris Paul
    Payton

    The above is 11 Star NBA PG that show and prove each season that their performance is much better with their teammates than Marbury.
    There are other PG like Hindrich, Baron Davis, Deron, Mo Williams, that has proved in the last 3 seasons their performance is above Marbury in so many standards.
    ummm... you really think we'd be better with Bibby than Steph? the only time Bibby made the playoffs... deep into the playoffs... he was on a loaded roster... Peja, Webber, Christie, Miller, Turkolu, Bobby Jackson... if Marbury was in Sacto... they would have done the same... what criteria makes TJ Ford, Cassel and Bibby better points than CP3?

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    I've always stated on here I think there are other PG's better than Steph....go through my posts and you'll find my history bears that out.

    As far as Chauncey goes yeah like you said...ONLY GOOD WHEN HE GOT TO DETROIT before that he really was not amounting to **** now was he? He was truly fading away to being one of those busted draft picks till Larry Brown made him into the PG you see today. And like I said no one on Detroit stands out...they all overlap.

    Payton I gave a higher score to because he has HALL OF FAME numbers...Chauncey won't ain't even able to breathe the same air as GP..PERIOD.

    ALL OF GARY PAYTON'S ACCOMPLISHMENTS...

    8 consecutive All-NBA team selections when he was chosen to the All-NBA Third team in 1994. He was selected All-NBA First-Team in 1998 and 2000, All-NBA Second Team in 1995, 1996, 1997, 1999, and 2002, and All-NBA Third Team in 1994 and 2001. He was selected to the NBA All-Defensive First Team a record nine consecutive seasons (1994–2002), and won the NBA Defensive Player of the Year Award in 1996, the first guard to have won the award in 8 years. He has been selected to the NBA All-Star Team nine times and was voted as a starter in 1997 and 1998. He was a member of the gold medal-winning 1996 and 2000 U.S. Men's Olympic Basketball Teams.

    * In NBA history (as of 18th April 2007):

    * ranks 21st in points (21,813) - passed Larry Bird (21,791) on March 26, 2007
    * ranks 6th in assists (8,966)
    * ranks 3rd in steals (2,445)
    * ranks 7th in minutes (47,117)
    * ranks 8th in games (1335)

    * Only player in NBA history to accumulate 20,000 points, 5,000 rebounds, 8,000 assists and 2,000 steals in a career


    Chauncey AIN'T GOT **** COMPARED TO GP...SO PLEASE SHUT UP


    2004 NBA Finals MVP
    2004-05 NBA All-Defense Second Team
    2005-06 NBA All-Defense Second Team
    2005-06 All-NBA Second Team
    2006, 2007 All-Star
    2006-07 All-NBA Third Team

  8. #38
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    Whats good with the Marbury hate on here?

    ShairanXIII, exactly. I asked him the same thing. He explained himself poorly and killed his agruement. I mean, Billups is an all star PG, a finals MVP and has come up big in the playoffs for Detroit.

    This guy has the most random list ever.

    Baron Davis makes his top 4, but Marbury doesn't? Marbury has been more consistant than Davis. The only thing that stopped Davis from being better than Marbury is his chucking and his injuries.

    Gary Payton has won a ring as a bench scrub for the Miami Heat. Congrats Gary, you've been ranked as the top point guard's in the NBA list. Hey, if you're going to put Payton, you might as well put Stockton and Magic, they were pretty good in the late 80s and 90s like Payton too. In matter fact, they were BETTER than Payton. so Payton wouldn't even be number one.

    If you don't get guy, the top PG list is current. Get updated here. Payton hasn't done anything in the NBA ever since he left Seattle.

    lmao...the great Gary Payton shot 35% in the playoffs for the Lakers. That was the year #1, Gary Payton couldn't handle Chauncey Billups. Payton has Karl Malone, Shaq, Kobe, and a bench of championship experienced veterans. Ever since Payton joined the Lakers he's been a sub-par bench scrub and medicore starter. Payton isn't at his prime anymore, Chauncey is. Chauncey right now is light years ahead of Payton. To put Payton as your number PG just makes this thread really comical. Thanks for the laughs and killing the agruement that Payton is the number one point guard in the NBA. Payton isn't even a top 30 PG in the NBA.


    Kiyaman, Mo Williams? Are you serious now? I can't even take your agrument seriously now. This is just Marbury hate.


    If you guys know anything about real basketball. Being a PG in the NBA and having 11 different coaches in 9-10 seasons is not easy to PERFECT the offense and be comfortable with the system. Tim Duncan has been playing under Pop for years and that HELPS. Its never been that Marbury can't work under the system, management has never given the CHANCE or opportunity to Marbury.

    You guys act foolishly, seeing Marbury just walking in the NBA and averaging very close to 20 and 8 as if its easy. That kind of career is similar to a career of an Oscar Robinson or Lebron James. Marbury isn't a hall of fame player, but he has had an extremely productive career at the PG position, and that only should place him in the top 10.

    jimkcchief88, Marbury is now a low tier player? LMAO. Dude, listen everyone in the NBA gets paid alot, thats how it is. There are very few underpaid guys in the NBA; so throw that overpaid stuff out the window.

  9. #39
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    Like I said you dude's are so on Marbury's nuts you're probably pregnant.

    Billups if you compare accomplishments to Gary Payton..Billups by far is nowhere near close. Period. Finals MVP does not outrank the fact Gary was ALL DEFENSIVE FIRST TEAM 9 SEASONS IN A ROW, or NBA DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR.

    Like Rasheed Wallace once said about Cleveland last year, "Even the sun shines on a dog's ass" And thats the case with Chauncey. One Finals MVP, la de ****ing da...just one finals MVP...that's his whole career.

    Gary Payton will be a Hall of Famer...Chauncey will not be..Period.

    Marbury's only claim to fame has been what...having a career average of 20pts 8 assists...that's it? Thats the only thing he has accomplished in his career? No All NBA awards, no Olympic medals no wait he has 1 BRONZE not GOLD, Marbury was an NBA All-Star in 2001 and 2003 and an All-NBA Third Team member in 2003.

    Gary has 1 more ring than Marbury, and he atleast did carry his TEAM TO THE NBA FINALS. Unlike a certain other player in NY whom wears #3 and is not John Starks.

    Chauncey's best days have past him by..he is 30 now...maybe at best he has what 3 more good years in that body...guards tend to burn out quicker...

    If Marbury was traded tomorrow for someone better I'd dance a jig and be happy.
    Last edited by KnicksFan4Realz; Jul 16, 2007 at 19:32.

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    Originally Posted by ShairanXIII
    [b]AI played point at GT and in his first 2 or 3 years... then LB shifted him to 2... but yeah...



    soooooooo... if your scores are composites between career, playoffs and finals... shouldn't chauncey be on your list anyway? his season averages (since coming to detroit) are 16 pts, 5 assts, 3 rebs, 1 steal... his playoff stats are even better 18 pts, 6 assts, 4 rbs, 1 steal... finals MVP and one chip... Payton has won no titles, no regular season MVPs, not even DPY... then you add Williams and Paul who have accomplished nothing and continue to say your list is valid...

    Steph has career playoff averages of 19.4 pts, 6.7 assts, 3.8 rebs and 1.6 steals in 18 playoff games... season career averages are 19.9 pts, 7.9 assts, 3.0 rebs, 1.0 steal... since finals only count if applicable... I dare you to name someone else on your list who has better numbers than Steph...

    be for real... you don't like Steph or Chauncy... don't front like you made an objective list when you used the same subjective criteria that you blame Metro for using...



    ummmmm... yeah... definately not biased against steph... i take it back...



    Minnesota won... Phoenix won... the Knicks won in his first year... THE ONLY TEAM THAT DIDN'T MAKE THE PLAYOFFS WITH MARBURY WAS NEW JERSEY... this is a fallacious argument... get your facts right before spitting on steph...



    ummm... you really think we'd be better with Bibby than Steph? the only time Bibby made the playoffs... deep into the playoffs... he was on a loaded roster... Peja, Webber, Christie, Miller, Turkolu, Bobby Jackson... if Marbury was in Sacto... they would have done the same... what criteria makes TJ Ford, Cassel and Bibby better points than CP3?
    What fact do I need to get straight??? That the guy has NEVER led a team to a PLAYOFF series win??? I got that fact straight. Maybe you are talking about a Jr High championship!!!

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    Default if yaal dont stop with this shi!!

    first of all..you cant judge a player jus on how far he went in the playoffs..look at tracy mcgrady..can u put other prime sf over him..hmm lewis..horry..barry..vince carter..t. prince..bowen.artest..they all have gone farther than him..but none are better than him so stop with this nonsense about marbury is trash cuz he never led his teams deep into the playoffs yet..his career is nowhere near over.so give the dude some slack..and recognize him for being one of the bes pg in the game..which pg would u rather have final 10 sec..paul..bibby Payton smh!,ford..alston and all dem other guys yaal have rated above marbury..marbury is the obvious choice..no1 yaal have rated above him has the ability to get in the lane and create..thats why hes marbury..not kidd or nash..he plays bes to his abilities..RESPECT THAT

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    sre you seriously arguing about billups now and payton from before when he was in hall of fame form? are we talking ranking him among point guards this year or all time? this is a stupid argument and yall are way off topic, this thread should be shut down.

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    Originally Posted by dialdayo
    first of all..you cant judge a player jus on how far he went in the playoffs..look at tracy mcgrady..can u put other prime sf over him..hmm lewis..horry..barry..vince carter..t. prince..bowen.artest..they all have gone farther than him..but none are better than him so stop with this nonsense about marbury is trash cuz he never led his teams deep into the playoffs yet..his career is nowhere near over.so give the dude some slack..and recognize him for being one of the bes pg in the game..which pg would u rather have final 10 sec..paul..bibby Payton smh!,ford..alston and all dem other guys yaal have rated above marbury..marbury is the obvious choice..no1 yaal have rated above him has the ability to get in the lane and create..thats why hes marbury..not kidd or nash..he plays bes to his abilities..RESPECT THAT
    Tracy has all the stats for your ass but he is not a great player either. Very good player, but not great. U guys look at number's and settle for mediocrity. To hell with Stephon, and those who support him because he is never going to lead this team to the promised land...Tracy same thing with him. Some guys just do not have what it takes to play playoff basketball when it counts...PERIOD.

    Best of his abilties? Least see he's not the level of Jason Kidd....Kidd just proves you don't have to average 20 pts a game to lead a team to the finals and some playoff wins...

    Nash same thing...

  14. #44
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    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    Like I said you dude's are so on Marbury's nuts you're probably pregnant.

    Billups if you compare accomplishments to Gary Payton..Billups by far is nowhere near close. Period. Finals MVP does not outrank the fact Gary was ALL DEFENSIVE FIRST TEAM 9 SEASONS IN A ROW, or NBA DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR.

    Like Rasheed Wallace once said about Cleveland last year, "Even the sun shines on a dog's ass" And thats the case with Chauncey. One Finals MVP, la de ****ing da...just one finals MVP...that's his whole career.

    Gary Payton will be a Hall of Famer...Chauncey will not be..Period.

    Marbury's only claim to fame has been what...having a career average of 20pts 8 assists...that's it? Thats the only thing he has accomplished in his career? No All NBA awards, no Olympic medals no wait he has 1 BRONZE not GOLD, Marbury was an NBA All-Star in 2001 and 2003 and an All-NBA Third Team member in 2003.

    Gary has 1 more ring than Marbury, and he atleast did carry his TEAM TO THE NBA FINALS. Unlike a certain other player in NY whom wears #3 and is not John Starks.

    Chauncey's best days have past him by..he is 30 now...maybe at best he has what 3 more good years in that body...guards tend to burn out quicker...

    If Marbury was traded tomorrow for someone better I'd dance a jig and be happy.
    Gary Payton won a ring by being a bench scrub for Pat Riley. That as irrevelant as John Salley winning an NBA title

    If you're making a list on all time PG's, Gary Payton isn't even number one. You got Jason Kidd, Stockon, Magic Johnson, Cylde Frazier and Isiah Thomas, who all had superior careers to Payton.

    John Starks didn't lead to the Knicks to the NBA finals, what are you talking about? He was an excellent role player and defender for the Knicks and will always be remembered. You're just a bias Marbury hater and have poor judgment on talented NBA PG's.

    You're wrong about Billups once again. He's still in his prime. 27-32 prime years. He still got 2-3 more years of all star basketball.

    Man, people just use to this "winning" **** too much and overuse it to the death. I think its overrated now and Marbury is one of the most underrated players in the NBA. He rarely gets any love, enough though having one of the most consistant careers at his position. Marbury has had 11 different head coaches in 9-10 years. Do you realize how hard that is? In boxing, if you get a new trainer each year, they all want something DIFFERENT and it takes time to adjust. 20 and 8 just shows how talented he is and how he adjusted well to every coach. Marbury has never go the chance to formulate chemistry with his coach or team cause he's always been behind an idiot GM. Marbury's teams were ALREADY bad NBA teams before Marbury went there. Marbury is an elite PG so theres no question those teams thought Marbury was the solution to their problems. The problem was, they didn't even Marbury the right players. Phoneix is better with Nash over Stephon, but Phoneix would still be an elite NBA team with Marbury as their PG, Phoneix with Marbury gave Spurs a little competition in the first round and showed a lot of promise; Amare and up and coming big man, Shawn Marion, all star player, and Joe Johnson who was just coming up as a scoring under Marbury. Marbury just went through Don Chaney, Lenny Wilkins, Herb Williams, Larry Brown and Isiah Thomas in a very short period of time. Many of these men have different methods of coaching. Throughout the period of time Marbury has adjusted he slumped a bit, but once he adjusted, he was leading us to victories. Under Isiah, Marbury has adjusted his whole game. He shot a career low 12.5 shots per game. His sacrifice his 20 and 8 to become a 15 and 5 player so Curry can dominate the ball and get experience as the main option. That to me is very unselfish and shows Marbury is one of the best in the NBA at adjusting to coaches and different situations. Also under Isiah, Marbury became more defensive minded and became defensively as good as any PG in the NBA.

    Gary Payton is an NBA scrub now and totally invisible to the league. Putting him top 10 of currently point guards makes you literally autistic.

    Tracy McGrady isn't a great player to you, some backwards country boy you are. So guys like Bowen and Prince are better than T'Mac cause they so happend to be a defensive championship team with all stars and elite coaches? Fool, its an individual comparision. Everyone would take T'Mac over those guys every ****ing day in the week and twice on Sunday. T'Mac is just better than them, period.
    Dance a jig? I'm glad all the low IQ hick Knick fans aren't in NYC. Keep that **** in Phoneix.

    KnicksFan4Realz, Kidd took the Nets to the finals in 01-02 and 02-03. Guess how many points he averaged? 20. You're wrong once again. Nash also, he has been a 20 ppg player in the playoffs for Phoneix. Theres nothing wrong with averaging 20 points per game. Especially when you're the best player on the team. Kidd and Nash proved you can score 20 a game and still be ABLE to pass the ball and get teammates invovled. Marbury has done this his WHOLE career. Its not really his fault and you can't down him for not having the best situations in his career. You're just coming off of hate and no facts. Stop hating on Marbury. He's going to be our PG for the next 3 years. You better root the Suns and Nash's queer ass then if you don't like Marbury. Marbury is a New York kid and he's here to stay. He's a great guy who gives back to people who went through the same struggles he suffered as a child and an open player who's willing to adjust(and give up his impressive 20 and 8 numbers) for the best of the Knick's future(Curry, Lee, Balkman, Collins etc).


    You made this thread off topic and turned it into a silly Marbury-hate agruement. This thread is about the top NBA PG's today. All time, Gary Payton isn't number one and right now, Payton isn't number. So you're wrong both ways. Thanks for bringing the most inconsistent top 10 PG list in internet history.


    jimkcchief88!!!!!!!!!! learn how to use a period!!!!!!!! exclamation points doesn't prove your stupidity to be valid!!!!!

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    Alright fine TOP PG'S in the League that are relevant to their teams goes as follows...

    1.) Tony Parker
    2.) Steve Nash
    3.) Jason Kidd
    4.) Gilbert Arenas
    5.) Chauncey Billups
    6.) Baron Davis
    7.) Jason Terry
    8.) Derron Williams
    9.) Chris Paul
    10.) Kirk Hinrich


    Marbury still does not make the top 10...because they can WIN without him, especially at the PG position. As I have said in another thread he would be much better doing what Philly did with Iverson...place him at the SG spot. And make Nate, or Collins your 1.

    As far as greatest PG's of all time is concerned...in know particular order...

    1.) Bob Cousy
    2.) Oscar Robertson
    3.) Walt Frazier
    4.) Nate Archibald
    5.) Pete Maravich
    6.) Magic Johnson
    7.) Isiah Thomas
    8.) Gary Payton
    9.) Jason Kidd
    10.) Lenny Wilkens

    As far as the KNICKS go..Patrick Ewing led that team to the Finals in 93/94. John Starks was great in GAME 6...accept for when he tried to go for the WIN instead of the TIE giving us a chance to win in overtime...that is where he ****ed up. And then of course in Game 7 with his abysmal 2-18 performance. Which I still blame Riles for not playing Blackman in that spot since Starks had burnt his wad in game 6.

    Tracy McGrady just like Marbury has yet to get it done in the playoffs. Similar is like A-ROD is for the Yankees. All season they shall be great, but when its crunch time they seem to fade away and cannot deliver. Don't know whether it is psychological...or what...but at some point some guy just isn't a playoff guy for whatever reason.

    I don't care about Steph's charitable efforts...that's nice but this is about basketball. We had plenty of local products that can't do **** for the hometown team...ie Strickland and Kenny Anderson...remember them?

    Marbury in 3 years will not even lead this team to the Conference Finals..what you going to say then? He did the best he could...champions deliver when there is pressure on line PERIOD. He has not, and never will. If he had that in him..would have seen it by now...because in 3 years...career is over...before he does perhaps become a role player on someone else's team. It's one thing to lose a title, it's another to never even come close to breathing and smelling the damned thing.

    Tracy will suffer the same fate, just as Ray Allen has for the most part. Meanwhile Rip Hamilton who is not better than Tracy or Ray...has been there several times.

    When Steph averages 20pts a game....team don't win..Nash and Kidd do it..team win...so what is Steph's problem? And Kidd did it without VC...

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