Marbury blog

Starks

Starter
what the hell is going in this thread?

I'm Cuban- don't get me started on politics fellas lol

Everyone is droppin jewels here. Nice!
 

GiantsKnickFan

Benchwarmer
If the convo started with why can't nike make their profits, etc etc. isnt capitlolism good etc etc.
Capitolism also fueled the crack epidemic of the 80's. (Very little goverment help in reducing the amount of drugs entered in the country)
When an entire generation of crack babies, and how devastating it was to poor neighborhoods, the goverment at least started to get more involved in slowing the flow of drugs here.
Capitolism has no morals, its bare essense is to be a hustler. Even if its illegal. Rich capitolists break monopoly and business ethics laws and dont feel an inch of heat.
Goverment has to monitor capitolism simply becuase it knows no bounds, capitlism has great as u may see it, only survives thru exploitation. Its the methods and means of exploitation that shifts. (think of timeline, 1st indians,then slaves, then chinese rail road workers, then south americans, then global labor exploitation.
 

KnicksFan4Realz

Benchwarmer
Still not seeing the fact of socialism or communism being perfect from greed or abuse.

Once again with capitalism it is more possible to gain a lot and coming from nothing. Can't have that under any of the other systems. I still no viable link between capitalism and evil. Because in my view, what I have gone through, people do evil shit, people do evil things, people are greedy. Not an economic system, and economic system is only ran and controlled by the people who run them in the first place.

I don't think people in society who contribute nothing should get anything back from society, I'm not quite sure if it is the job of society to take care of those whom cannot take care of themselves...I'm not saying it would not be a higher cause not to take care of those folks who can't do for themselves...just not sure that it is each citizens responsibility.

Being your brother's keeper is one thing, wiping his ass for him constantly and pulling his weight for him is another.

I think the only people that should benefit from the system are the ones who put into the system. Period. You put in nothing you should get nothing. Just being born in my view doesn't entitle you to anything. Nothing in this world is free, there is always a cost somewhere to someone.

I think society's role should be to educate a person, give them an equal and fair chance...but like life it's chance not a guarantee at success...big difference in my view.

I still think capitalism even with it's cons is a better system than any of the others because one should benefit from their hard work and labor...and be allowed to make as much as they can from their ideas, their work, their discipline, their sacrifices. I should not have to share my success with someone who doesn't do jack shit, or doesn't contribute, or doesn't work as hard as I do.

We all as humans may very well be fundamentally equal, but it's not practical equality. Is the skill of the janitor worth more than the doctor? The skill of the computer programmer worth the same as the customer service agent? The skill of the baker worth more than the skill of the soldier...NO none of them are NOT equal to each other practically, because each has a different functional skill that is worth more than the other depending on the circumstances.

You don't send bakers or programmer's to fight a war...you don't ask janitor to perform heart surgeries, you don't ask English teachers to fix an automobile.
 

GiantsKnickFan

Benchwarmer
Still not seeing the fact of socialism or communism being perfect from greed or abuse.

Once again with capitalism it is more possible to gain a lot and coming from nothing. Can't have that under any of the other systems. I still no viable link between capitalism and evil. Because in my view, what I have gone through, people do evil shit, people do evil things, people are greedy. Not an economic system, and economic system is only ran and controlled by the people who run them in the first place.

I don't think people in society who contribute nothing should get anything back from society, I'm not quite sure if it is the job of society to take care of those whom cannot take care of themselves...I'm not saying it would not be a higher cause not to take care of those folks who can't do for themselves...just not sure that it is each citizens responsibility.

Being your brother's keeper is one thing, wiping his ass for him constantly and pulling his weight for him is another.

I think the only people that should benefit from the system are the ones who put into the system. Period. You put in nothing you should get nothing. Just being born in my view doesn't entitle you to anything. Nothing in this world is free, there is always a cost somewhere to someone.

I think society's role should be to educate a person, give them an equal and fair chance...but like life it's chance not a guarantee at success...big difference in my view.

I still think capitalism even with it's cons is a better system than any of the others because one should benefit from their hard work and labor...and be allowed to make as much as they can from their ideas, their work, their discipline, their sacrifices. I should not have to share my success with someone who doesn't do jack shit, or doesn't contribute, or doesn't work as hard as I do.

We all as humans may very well be fundamentally equal, but it's not practical equality. Is the skill of the janitor worth more than the doctor? The skill of the computer programmer worth the same as the customer service agent? The skill of the baker worth more than the skill of the soldier...NO none of them are NOT equal to each other practically, because each has a different functional skill that is worth more than the other depending on the circumstances.

You don't send bakers or programmer's to fight a war...you don't ask janitor to perform heart surgeries, you don't ask English teachers to fix an automobile.

1. capitolism isnt about equaility tho. In my view the education of an Orange County, LA student is not equal to a kid in Harlem regardless of race, altho there is a legitimate correlation on why there are more inner city minorities in over crowded classrooms with bad teachers. And where is the equal chance when women still make 70 cents per dollar less than men. Please stop trying to convince urself that capiltolism is equal, its really not. Im not gonna say socialism is better, but capitolism works for whoever has enuff capitol to make a difference and the majority dont.

2. We live in a society where markets set the standards, so its ok for A-rod to make 252mil and a social worker/polic officer/nurse/ etc can all make less than 50k a year? plz its pathetic fundamentally and morally. There is no justifying that. Thats the reason why you see soo many inner city kids focusing on playing sports than focus in the classroom, its easier to try and make it in the NBA than to get an education. Again, capitolism sets this mark.
 

KnicksFan4Realz

Benchwarmer
1. capitolism isnt about equaility tho. In my view the education of an Orange County, LA student is not equal to a kid in Harlem regardless of race, altho there is a legitimate correlation on why there are more inner city minorities in over crowded classrooms with bad teachers. And where is the equal chance when women still make 70 cents per dollar less than men. Please stop trying to convince urself that capiltolism is equal, its really not. Im not gonna say socialism is better, but capitolism works for whoever has enuff capitol to make a difference and the majority dont.

2. We live in a society where markets set the standards, so its ok for A-rod to make 252mil and a social worker/polic officer/nurse/ etc can all make less than 50k a year? plz its pathetic fundamentally and morally. There is no justifying that. Thats the reason why you see soo many inner city kids focusing on playing sports than focus in the classroom, its easier to try and make it in the NBA than to get an education. Again, capitolism sets this mark.

1st off women don't make 70 cents less per dollar than a man makes, they make 70 cents for every 1 dollar a man makes..ie they are not getting that 30 cents....not the other way around.

2) So what if A-Rod is making 252 million dollars? How is that his fault?

That teacher making 50,000 a year...let's look at her job...She is paid whether those kids pass or fail regardless. She has the best months off of work...namely, Half of June, ALL July, ALL August, and some of September, in most states...there are no performance bonuses built into her contract.

Because teachers won't allow that...teachers actually having their pay being determined how well their kids do on state exams? Ha...that will cause such an uproar...especially if you got a room full of dumbassess. Then who would she blame if say she is a HS teacher...The JHS they came from? The Elementary? The parents?The students themselves for not being smart enough? Herself for not giving extra help to those who need it? The state for not providing her enough resources? The taxpayers? The community...the dollars the go to each school is determined by the income of the community the school is in...so if School A is producing $5million, and School B producing $2million...school A has a bigger pool of resources. That's how dollars for education are alloted by district. So if you teach in a poor community...you're fucked. Plain and simple. It's why so many leave the inner city schools because of this formula.

I'm tired of folks blaming capitalism, you know what a teacher's salary is before you even get into the field. Guess what, if it is too low? DON'T WORK IN THAT FIELD. Find something better to do, find a better school to teach at...choose another profession. That's the freedom capitalism allows. When take on a job, and they tell you the salary..YOU ARE AGREEING TO WORK AT THAT NUMBER. If you feel it's underpaid...YOU HAVE THE FREEDOM TO QUIT mostly anytime you wish...fuck it no one is going to chase after you saying you must work in this field in this job. It doesn't happen.

I joined the Service, so I can have my college education paid for...after that I took engineering/construction in college...I was more interested in music...but I like money and having more than enough of it to feed and clothe my family. So being good at math and science...I used my most valuable skill...my brain and determined this is what is best economically for myself and my family. That's all...I don't why folks this day and age can't seem to think about the choices they make....

No one owes you anything in this world. It has to be earned. Don't bring morals into this it has nothing to do with it. Absolutely nothing at all. If someone offers me $1 million dollars a year to design a building, and the mailroom clerk is only getting say $24,000 a year...how the fuck is that my fault he's only getting 24k?

I put myself into a position to make that kind of money...I don't know what you personally do for a living but if someone offered you a $2 million a year salary...and there is a market base to pay for that...THE FANS...you wouldn't take it based on moral grounds? Give me a break...you'd take that money...and take care of you and yours. End of story. Because that's all that matter's the education.

Athletes you see their fuck-ups on the field or arena of play...you don't see that with teachers. She could have 6 classes of 30 students each thats 180...say 150 pass...and 30 fail...and her counterpart has the same amount of students...and only 100 pass...and 80 fail...should they not be paid differently based on performance?

You can't pay teachers all the same amount because you should not...not all of them have the same great teaching skills. You have to weed out the ones who do it for a paycheck and really don't give a shit about teaching. I've had plenty of teachers like that in the NYC public school system....and I've had a handful of great one's and 90% I had them 1 yr in..the next they left to go to the suburbs...they didn't owe me anything than to do their job to the best of their ability. Not everyone is equal, and everyone should not be paid equally. Period.

You don't like what your job is paying you quit, find a better paying one. Period.

The market determines pay as it should..I make a very good living...I'm good at what I do..why should my income be capped because someone else didn't go and get themselves the education necessary and acquire the necessary skills to place them in proper position?

Like I said you fix the education received at the basic levels...but after that there comes a point when you are responsible for you.

The reason why inner city kids focus on sports and not other fields mainly is because, yes the money is obvious but who wouldn't? But 2....the culture. I'm out here in PHX, mostly white kids ask them what they want to do with their lives...you get answers of lawyer, doctor, nurse, cop, scientist...go to the black communities, hispanic communities...you get sports athletes, actors, rappers.......

Why? Because the parents emphasize the wrong ambitions...parents are the reason why the kids gravitate towards those fields 99% have no realistic shot at attaining. A lot of folks don't go to community college even to get better skills, they waste their money on lotto tickets..hoping they'll hit to fix all their problems in one fell swoop.

You have to fix society well before you start screwing with the economic system. Everyone is not equal, so I know I why I believe everyone should not be paid equally.

I was in the Army served in Iraq and Afghanistan, I served for just a little over 5 years...I should have gotten paid more than any teacher anywhere in this country, more than any janitor, more than any engineer...my ass was literally on the line every single say...and not only that I had other people's lives directly in my hands...when I started I was barely making $1,100 a month....I knew the pay was not the reason I was joining...but I'm just making a point...you talk about morality, the person getting shot at in defense of his country for the benefit and security of others in this nation should get paid more than EVERYONE ELSE. REGARDLESS. You teach 8th graders...don't even sit and tell me your job is as dangerous as mine. You pick up trash...give me a break.
 
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GiantsKnickFan

Benchwarmer
1st off women don't make 70 cents less per dollar than a man makes, they make 70 cents for every 1 dollar a man makes..ie they are not getting that 30 cents....not the other way around.

2) So what if A-Rod is making 252 million dollars? How is that his fault?

That teacher making 50,000 a year...let's look at her job...She is paid whether those kids pass or fail regardless. She has the best months off of work...namely, Half of June, ALL July, ALL August, and some of September, in most states...there are no performance bonuses built into her contract.

Because teachers won't allow that...teachers actually having their pay being determined how well their kids do on state exams? Ha...that will cause such an uproar...especially if you got a room full of dumbassess. Then who would she blame if say she is a HS teacher...The JHS they came from? The Elementary? The parents?The students themselves for not being smart enough? Herself for not giving extra help to those who need it? The state for not providing her enough resources? The taxpayers? The community...the dollars the go to each school is determined by the income of the community the school is in...so if School A is producing $5million, and School B producing $2million...school A has a bigger pool of resources. That's how dollars for education are alloted by district. So if you teach in a poor community...you're fucked. Plain and simple. It's why so many leave the inner city schools because of this formula.

I'm tired of folks blaming capitalism, you know what a teacher's salary is before you even get into the field. Guess what, if it is too low? DON'T WORK IN THAT FIELD. Find something better to do, find a better school to teach at...choose another profession. That's the freedom capitalism allows. When take on a job, and they tell you the salary..YOU ARE AGREEING TO WORK AT THAT NUMBER. If you feel it's underpaid...YOU HAVE THE FREEDOM TO QUIT mostly anytime you wish...fuck it no one is going to chase after you saying you must work in this field in this job. It doesn't happen.

I joined the Service, so I can have my college education paid for...after that I took engineering/construction in college...I was more interested in music...but I like money and having more than enough of it to feed and clothe my family. So being good at math and science...I used my most valuable skill...my brain and determined this is what is best economically for myself and my family. That's all...I don't why folks this day and age can't seem to think about the choices they make....

No one owes you anything in this world. It has to be earned. Don't bring morals into this it has nothing to do with it. Absolutely nothing at all. If someone offers me $1 million dollars a year to design a building, and the mailroom clerk is only getting say $24,000 a year...how the fuck is that my fault he's only getting 24k?

I put myself into a position to make that kind of money...I don't know what you personally do for a living but if someone offered you a $2 million a year salary...and there is a market base to pay for that...THE FANS...you wouldn't take it based on moral grounds? Give me a break...you'd take that money...and take care of you and yours. End of story. Because that's all that matter's the education.

Athletes you see their fuck-ups on the field or arena of play...you don't see that with teachers. She could have 6 classes of 30 students each thats 180...say 150 pass...and 30 fail...and her counterpart has the same amount of students...and only 100 pass...and 80 fail...should they not be paid differently based on performance?

You can't pay teachers all the same amount because you should not...not all of them have the same great teaching skills. You have to weed out the ones who do it for a paycheck and really don't give a shit about teaching. I've had plenty of teachers like that in the NYC public school system....and I've had a handful of great one's and 90% I had them 1 yr in..the next they left to go to the suburbs...they didn't owe me anything than to do their job to the best of their ability. Not everyone is equal, and everyone should not be paid equally. Period.

You don't like what your job is paying you quit, find a better paying one. Period.

The market determines pay as it should..I make a very good living...I'm good at what I do..why should my income be capped because someone else didn't go and get themselves the education necessary and acquire the necessary skills to place them in proper position?

Like I said you fix the education received at the basic levels...but after that there comes a point when you are responsible for you.

The reason why inner city kids focus on sports and not other fields mainly is because, yes the money is obvious but who wouldn't? But 2....the culture. I'm out here in PHX, mostly white kids ask them what they want to do with their lives...you get answers of lawyer, doctor, nurse, cop, scientist...go to the black communities, hispanic communities...you get sports athletes, actors, rappers.......

Why? Because the parents emphasize the wrong ambitions...parents are the reason why the kids gravitate towards those fields 99% have no realistic shot at attaining. A lot of folks don't go to community college even to get better skills, they waste their money on lotto tickets..hoping they'll hit to fix all their problems in one fell swoop.

You have to fix society well before you start screwing with the economic system. Everyone is not equal, so I know I why I believe everyone should not be paid equally.

I was in the Army served in Iraq and Afghanistan, I served for just a little over 5 years...I should have gotten paid more than any teacher anywhere in this country, more than any janitor, more than any engineer...my ass was literally on the line every single say...and not only that I had other people's lives directly in my hands...when I started I was barely making $1,100 a month....I knew the pay was not the reason I was joining...but I'm just making a point...you talk about morality, the person getting shot at in defense of his country for the benefit and security of others in this nation should get paid more than EVERYONE ELSE. REGARDLESS. You teach 8th graders...don't even sit and tell me your job is as dangerous as mine. You pick up trash...give me a break.

Thats a very ignorant statement when i am the example that it is not tru. I was born in Harlem and subsequently didnt have access to the best education, my child hood dream, to be mark jackson. My parents instead were active in teaching me what the real world is like. Im a Political Science Grad from StonyBrook U. Your entire statement is a stereotype. And maybe u dont understand the way the world looks to me, becuase it isnt pretty.

There are examples in which u "gain what u earn" the flaw in that statement is that you would be correct if the field was even. What are the foundations of your system and philosophy? Exploitation.
Clearly you dont "gain what u earn" when you create the idea of an inferior race solely for economic reasons. This nation has taken yrs to be "equal" (which unfortunately if you look at it from a means of definition, the utter fact that there needs to be a law in order to uphold a natural given right to be equal than the race who wrote the laws further shows that racism still exists.) If it didnt, there wouldnt be any laws to proctect colored people.

AS a vet, u should have learned that the military isnt about the individual, becuase u chose to join as u said, by joining you are in clear support of ur administrations policy. Maybe u should write a letter to bush to give u a lil bit more piece of their Haliburton Pie. I dont know what ur beliefs are but i dont buy the gotta stay on offense debacle, its been worse than ever, and that was exactly what the goverment wants so that they can continue the infringment of our natural rights in the constitution thru the Patriot Act.
Capitolism breeds ways to exploit that will shock ur imagination and its been done for centuries. Some people notice, some dont.

The system of education we have now is one of the worst in the world. a system that breeds social disorders? Have u looked at the murder rates in this country than others? its nothing to be proud of. Gun rates? highest in the world.
Theres no coincedence that a school in Harlem is in worse shape (whether physically, grades, conduct etc) than a school in Hamptons, LI. And u say equality. U should visit these schools for urself..
 

donchris

Next season, keep waiting
Wow, it's been a few days sense I posted on this topic. You guys are covering a variety of issues. All good points. My point was more toward the Starbury vs Nike subject. I fully understand the basic principles of economics, supply and demand and ext, but there's a point when the consumer is being or feels ripped off. Kids typically don't have the intelligence to understand that they are being ripped off any my point is Nike, like the Oil industry is ripping of it's consumers. I understand this is a matter of opinion. I'm not saying that Nike or Oprah shouldn't make a certain amount of money because we live in a free society and you should make as much as you can. The problem as I stated before is capitalism is fueled by greed. The purpose of business is to make money by any means, legal or illegal if you can get away with it. We see this all the time in politics. Nike would love to sell their shoes for $500.00 and they can and should be able to do that. The problem runs so much deeper than Nike. It's subliminal advertising. Nike spends millions a year convincing kids that they must have their product. Here's where the lack of ethics comes in. Nike doesn't give a shit about the poor families that can't afford the product. But they specifically target the lower economical market. Through subliminal ads, these shoe companies create a culture in which kids are social outcasts if they don't have certain things. Cloths, cars, shoes ext. And it's not just Nike. This is a problem through out the country but it hits as specially hard to the inner city. This isn't a problem for any of us I don't think but it hits hard for the less privileged and less educated, which is a huge chunk of America and the world. So what's the answer? Education? But who's education? GiantsKnickFan pointed out that public or as I call it, government education has failed miserably. How do you change a culture? Viacom controls 3/4 of the music outlets which feeds kids B.S. messages and NBA players are young them selves so they are thinking 'I'm just tryin to get paid'. This to me is why I think what Marbury is doing is so important. He's a business man with ethics. He takes a stand where he can make profits and create American jobs. Stephon Marbury is capitalist with a soul which is rare in capitalism.
 

KnicksFan4Realz

Benchwarmer
Ohh cry me a river. I went to PS. 76 MS. 135 Bergtraum HS. Then the US Army...got out then went to Virginia Tech. I have a degree in Mechanical Engineering and B.S. Philosophy. I grew up right there in the Bronx 666 Adee Ave...White Plains Road.

People have the power to make their own choices. Period. Yeah yeah advertisements, advertisements. I go to the store, I need water, I need toilet paper, I need cereal, I need juice, I need underwear..etc..etc. I walk through the aisles...some products cost more than others...also some products are of better quality than others. But I as a consumer can choose which products wish to buy. Period. No one cartoon character, or great thematic song, influences my purchasing habits. I base it off of what I believe is better quality, and a good fair price. Most shoppers shop this way..but you have that few no matter what the price...have to get said product because it is "a name" I grant you that point.

However, if they do not watch their financial bottomline whose fault is that? No one tells you to spend the extra .40cents a roll to get Quilted Northern over Charmin...no one tells you to buy Rocawear jeans at $80 a pair..over say Ralph Lauren that costs $65 bucks a pair. People make choices, and people are responsible for their own choices. Period. It's not the governments job to come in and help folks balance a check book..I would agree it's in government's best interest to show you how to balance a check book....but that's the limit. Once I show you how to do something, I'm taking the training wheels off...how you choose to ride your bike is up to you 100%..and if you fall, after I've made you aware of the dangers...that is your own fault.

My statement was not ignorant it's true. I lived in the projects for 17 years...can't no one tell me anything about life in the projects I lived it...a lot of people there...are there because they made f'd up choices plain and simple. I can recall a handful of older people than me...talking mid-20's whom I say everyday come in and out going to college...most folks in there...don't give a damn...and are only interested in living "ghetto fabulous" period. Some get out, most don't, and you have many who are happy to be there. Yes it does beat living on the street and being homeless but that's not saying much.

People need restraint, but they also need to learn to take responsibility for their own actions. I see society moving away from this, and wanting to constantly blame other people, or systems, or institutions, for their fucked up decision making. What ever happened to personal responsibility? I mean seriously it's like a dirty concept now, especially in the communities that need more of it...and the greatest area it is needed is the BLACK COMMUNITY. That's a fact. We need to put more foot to ass and draw some lines of what acceptable and what is not.

I never said every single person of color is ignorant or stupid, but ALOT ARE. Stop denying that point. If every single person of color was that smart, alot of them would not be where they currently are in life. So obviously something needs to change. Sure PS.76, MS.135, even Bergtraum being in the financial district and all..was not an equal education to the one say in Larchmont, White Plains, Hartsdale etc...they had better resources than in the inner city. I've already explained how those dollars are calculated...but if you have people dropping out, cutting class...and not even trying to attempt to get and use the education they are getting...it's never going to work.

I don't care how many schools you revamp...how much more you make them more conducive to learning and provide safety, how many great teachers you woo with great salaries and benefits..if you do not have the internal desire to take your ass to class, that's not one's fault but your OWN. PERIOD. My social studies teacher...said something one time...and it's been apart of my life ever since...

"If you fail to prepare, then prepare to fail" and he was a Jamaican emigrant...if the black community continuously fails to adopt this mantra...we will never escape the cycle many of our "lost" one's are in...tough love and compassion is needed YES, but we mustn't forget to hand out strong discipline as well.

The kids don't have the desire is that the parent fault? Is that the rapper's fault? Is that the school's fault? So far pointing all those fingers...the kids are going to have to point them at themselves in the end sum of things. The world is/does not want to hear excuses of why you did not make it...because when you look back on your life only you.

Parents are the first line of defense in their child's future, PERIOD. I take my daughter and nephew to museums, science fairs all the time...most times we are the only black faces...I go take them to see the Suns/Knicks or a Cardinals game...not tons of black faces..but certainly more at those events..something is wrong with that picture! And it should be a great fucking shame to the black community. We for the most part come from people who endured slavery, that would have died and did die and get beaten for wanting to learn and read a book...any book...and now shit please...parent's don't even bother to read to their children...and don't give their busy at work...I come from a single father household...my father worked 12-16 hr days..and HE WAS A REAL MAN, AND REAL PARENT AND MADE TIME.

I'm just tired of all these EXCUSES, in my people. I really am, and it makes me sick.

As far as the government monitoring is concerned..you people think you really have it bad here? If this government was truly oppressive you would not be here expressing your dissent right now... go to Iraq..Afghan...say something against whomever is in charge see what happens to you...go to China...see if they don't put your nuts in a ringer about voicing a bad opinion about government or Taiwan. People here complain about nothing. I've seen what real oppression looks like first hand, America is nowhere near close to that...people need to really stop exaggerating that point. I tell people, especially civilians all the time...you think you have it that bad here...go overseas and experience it for yourself...and I don't mean France or England...go tour some of the more oppressive countries like Libya..and you tell me how bad you have it here again!
 

ShairanXIII

Rotation player
Whoa... I haven't commented here in a couple days so I'm gonna try to be succinct...

KnicksFan... you're right that capitalism itself isn't evil... and I doubt anyone was asking for parents to be better educated... but Don Chris said it best... Capitalism with a soul is what we need... Nike has dossiers about their "target" group... they give "promo" materials to entertainers so the entertainer can be seen wearing it... people see entertainer X wearing all this free nike shyte... then they want to cop it... they target the "urban" market with high priced products... because the inner city sets the trends... you're not really "black" unless you have fresh js... or a watch... or a chain... or something else external... when your identity as a people has been eroded for decades... you try to be visible in whatever way you can... again... this isn't the government's fault... but simple FCC limits on things like the number of times a show commercial can be played during children's programming... or a 2:1 ratio for healthy foods and sugary foods... this would not take any new taxpayer spending... but merely a realignment of priorities...

i also agree that there are places much worse than the US... shyte here isn't hard... i grew up in places where you had to walk to the river for clean water... where a minor hurrican meant homelessness and possibly death... BUT... let's not pretend like life has been sweet since the 60s... the government has subverted every major freedom movement... the panthers... malcom x... dr. king... cointelpro and mccarthy did a number on any marches for true equality...

i also agree that there are many black people that relish in poverty and being ghetto... but your argument is too similar to Raganomics for me to go further than that... the fact is... black males... you... me... many posters on this forum graduate HS at the lowest rate of any in this country... while we represent the highest percentage of special ed. students... THIS CANNOT BE BECAUSE OF A GENETIC DEFECT... there are many implicit racist forces in this country that we should not ignore either...

peep the teacher connection... most teachers are white females... check any demographic chart you want... most underperforming schools are mostly minority... we all have intrinsic racist tendancies... again... this was scientifically proven... i'm not in the mood to look up the reference though... so often the actions of the black male student is misinterpreted... he is sent to special education... and after years of being mislabeled and mistreated... he doesn't graduate HS... i'm not saying teachers are to blame... or that they're evil... but our underlying prejudices against 5 year olds sets them up for a lifetime of failure... you cannot ignore the importance of formative years... since you are a good father yourself...

but the issue of teachers is complicated by the system you defend... we all agree that the most qualified people should be teachers... the people that become teachers don't do it because of the vacation time... they usually do it because they want to make a difference... working in the poorest schools... for a low salary... without the resources you need to help your students learn causes burnout... the average teacher "career" lasts five years... between burn out and teachers quitting... good teachers are at a premium... if every talented individual that wants to help says f**k it... then you're left with less qualified teachers working with our most precious resource... i know that's not what you advocate... the school funding system is archiac and only serves to punish those born into poverty... yes... there are many stories like yours where people overcome all the odds and make it... but when the deck is stacked against you... it takes a special breed to make it...

when the government itself has historically set up these inequalities... it's up to the government to help level the playing field... within our capitialist representative democracy... there is room for conscience... i think it is our duty to love and take care of our fellow man... period...
 

KnicksFan4Realz

Benchwarmer
I think personally the black community needs more restraint and more foot to ass...just my observation. We need the strong leading the weak, not the other way around. People looking up to rappers, moviestars and such...just plain blows my mind.

But there comes a point where people have to be held accountable for their own actions, I don't care how much government help you give. And we need to realize you cannot save everybody. Some people are just made to destroy themselves. I could care less about the person who does drugs, as opposed to the person born addicted...I could care less about the person drives drunk...as opposed to the victim of that..

I just have no tolerance for folks making excuses of any kind. Most of my teachers were white...and I can say honestly they were pretty good to me. Conversely, I had some black teachers that were "difficult". But I was not placated, or anything like that..simply told of the expectations...met and exceeded them. Period.

Life is a zero sum game, some winners, shit load of losers...it's always going to be that way. No one in this world owes you anything is how I was raised, you want something you have to earn it, and you let nothing stand in your way, you may change tactic but never your goals.

Being black may make things harder, but it's no excuse.

He who has no fire, cannot warm others. And I've always been pippin hot.
 

GiantsKnickFan

Benchwarmer
Ohh cry me a river. I went to PS. 76 MS. 135 Bergtraum HS. Then the US Army...got out then went to Virginia Tech. I have a degree in Mechanical Engineering and B.S. Philosophy. I grew up right there in the Bronx 666 Adee Ave...White Plains Road.

People have the power to make their own choices. Period. Yeah yeah advertisements, advertisements. I go to the store, I need water, I need toilet paper, I need cereal, I need juice, I need underwear..etc..etc. I walk through the aisles...some products cost more than others...also some products are of better quality than others. But I as a consumer can choose which products wish to buy. Period. No one cartoon character, or great thematic song, influences my purchasing habits. I base it off of what I believe is better quality, and a good fair price. Most shoppers shop this way..but you have that few no matter what the price...have to get said product because it is "a name" I grant you that point.

However, if they do not watch their financial bottomline whose fault is that? No one tells you to spend the extra .40cents a roll to get Quilted Northern over Charmin...no one tells you to buy Rocawear jeans at $80 a pair..over say Ralph Lauren that costs $65 bucks a pair. People make choices, and people are responsible for their own choices. Period. It's not the governments job to come in and help folks balance a check book..I would agree it's in government's best interest to show you how to balance a check book....but that's the limit. Once I show you how to do something, I'm taking the training wheels off...how you choose to ride your bike is up to you 100%..and if you fall, after I've made you aware of the dangers...that is your own fault.

My statement was not ignorant it's true. I lived in the projects for 17 years...can't no one tell me anything about life in the projects I lived it...a lot of people there...are there because they made f'd up choices plain and simple. I can recall a handful of older people than me...talking mid-20's whom I say everyday come in and out going to college...most folks in there...don't give a damn...and are only interested in living "ghetto fabulous" period. Some get out, most don't, and you have many who are happy to be there. Yes it does beat living on the street and being homeless but that's not saying much.

People need restraint, but they also need to learn to take responsibility for their own actions. I see society moving away from this, and wanting to constantly blame other people, or systems, or institutions, for their fucked up decision making. What ever happened to personal responsibility? I mean seriously it's like a dirty concept now, especially in the communities that need more of it...and the greatest area it is needed is the BLACK COMMUNITY. That's a fact. We need to put more foot to ass and draw some lines of what acceptable and what is not.

I never said every single person of color is ignorant or stupid, but ALOT ARE. Stop denying that point. If every single person of color was that smart, alot of them would not be where they currently are in life. So obviously something needs to change. Sure PS.76, MS.135, even Bergtraum being in the financial district and all..was not an equal education to the one say in Larchmont, White Plains, Hartsdale etc...they had better resources than in the inner city. I've already explained how those dollars are calculated...but if you have people dropping out, cutting class...and not even trying to attempt to get and use the education they are getting...it's never going to work.

I don't care how many schools you revamp...how much more you make them more conducive to learning and provide safety, how many great teachers you woo with great salaries and benefits..if you do not have the internal desire to take your ass to class, that's not one's fault but your OWN. PERIOD. My social studies teacher...said something one time...and it's been apart of my life ever since...

"If you fail to prepare, then prepare to fail" and he was a Jamaican emigrant...if the black community continuously fails to adopt this mantra...we will never escape the cycle many of our "lost" one's are in...tough love and compassion is needed YES, but we mustn't forget to hand out strong discipline as well.

The kids don't have the desire is that the parent fault? Is that the rapper's fault? Is that the school's fault? So far pointing all those fingers...the kids are going to have to point them at themselves in the end sum of things. The world is/does not want to hear excuses of why you did not make it...because when you look back on your life only you.

Parents are the first line of defense in their child's future, PERIOD. I take my daughter and nephew to museums, science fairs all the time...most times we are the only black faces...I go take them to see the Suns/Knicks or a Cardinals game...not tons of black faces..but certainly more at those events..something is wrong with that picture! And it should be a great fucking shame to the black community. We for the most part come from people who endured slavery, that would have died and did die and get beaten for wanting to learn and read a book...any book...and now shit please...parent's don't even bother to read to their children...and don't give their busy at work...I come from a single father household...my father worked 12-16 hr days..and HE WAS A REAL MAN, AND REAL PARENT AND MADE TIME.

I'm just tired of all these EXCUSES, in my people. I really am, and it makes me sick.

As far as the government monitoring is concerned..you people think you really have it bad here? If this government was truly oppressive you would not be here expressing your dissent right now... go to Iraq..Afghan...say something against whomever is in charge see what happens to you...go to China...see if they don't put your nuts in a ringer about voicing a bad opinion about government or Taiwan. People here complain about nothing. I've seen what real oppression looks like first hand, America is nowhere near close to that...people need to really stop exaggerating that point. I tell people, especially civilians all the time...you think you have it that bad here...go overseas and experience it for yourself...and I don't mean France or England...go tour some of the more oppressive countries like Libya..and you tell me how bad you have it here again!

Exaggerating???
I must be. This country would never enslave another race for economic means, wouldnt inject african americans with syphilis? treat women as inferiors till only decades ago? Rape and exterminate Native Americans for more land? Round up any asians and keep them in concentration camps?

Goverment is a tight circle. They tend to like it that way.
Ask yourself if u truly believe that the people who run this goverment are completely free of any Racial,Religious,Ethnic, Homosexual, Gender prejudice.
Im not saying its that bad now, as time goes on things do get better, but blind faith in goverment is just settin urself up for the truth to smack u in the face later.
 

KnicksFan4Realz

Benchwarmer
Exaggerating???
I must be. This country would never enslave another race for economic means, wouldnt inject african americans with syphilis? treat women as inferiors till only decades ago? Rape and exterminate Native Americans for more land? Round up any asians and keep them in concentration camps?

Goverment is a tight circle. They tend to like it that way.
Ask yourself if u truly believe that the people who run this goverment are completely free of any Racial,Religious,Ethnic, Homosexual, Gender prejudice.
Im not saying its that bad now, as time goes on things do get better, but blind faith in goverment is just settin urself up for the truth to smack u in the face later.

Like I said go to another country where if you disagree with the government you are shot on site, your family is killed. Or you are starved out LITERALLY.

Women were always seen as inferiors...especially around the globe..that is not just endemic to the US...I don't know from where you are trying to pull that one.

Rape and extermination of the Native Americans while tragic...yes that did happen..but name me one society that was not forged from crushing one that was already pre-existing..even the Egyptians crushed other civilizations such as the Kush and the Kartish, so did the Romans crushed the Mincieans, Minoans, the Greeks crushed the Athenians, The Mongols, The Persians.....do you see where I am going? What you are arguing is pointless...all societies crush one...and form another...happens all over the globe and throughout the history of mankind..don't be so quick to fall in love with ideals of what society should be doing. It's a cycle that will never end. Ever.

There is not one person in this entire USA that does not have a prejudice or preferences towards something and or someone. You can be non-racist, and homophobic...you can be tolerant of all races, and sexual origin...and piss on those whom are religious...you can be a minority and be racist...when people tell me they have no prejudices about anything they are lying, because we all have preferences PERIOD.

I've never abdicated blind faith in government, only that alot of Americans tend to heavily over exaggerate the problem when there are far more dire situations that make Americans look like a bunch of whiny babies..and FYI most Americans are whiny.
 

GiantsKnickFan

Benchwarmer
Like I said go to another country where if you disagree with the government you are shot on site, your family is killed. Or you are starved out LITERALLY.

Women were always seen as inferiors...especially around the globe..that is not just endemic to the US...I don't know from where you are trying to pull that one.

Rape and extermination of the Native Americans while tragic...yes that did happen..but name me one society that was not forged from crushing one that was already pre-existing..even the Egyptians crushed other civilizations such as the Kush and the Kartish, so did the Romans crushed the Mincieans, Minoans, the Greeks crushed the Athenians, The Mongols, The Persians.....do you see where I am going? What you are arguing is pointless...all societies crush one...and form another...happens all over the globe and throughout the history of mankind..don't be so quick to fall in love with ideals of what society should be doing. It's a cycle that will never end. Ever.

There is not one person in this entire USA that does not have a prejudice or preferences towards something and or someone. You can be non-racist, and homophobic...you can be tolerant of all races, and sexual origin...and piss on those whom are religious...you can be a minority and be racist...when people tell me they have no prejudices about anything they are lying, because we all have preferences PERIOD.

I've never abdicated blind faith in government, only that alot of Americans tend to heavily over exaggerate the problem when there are far more dire situations that make Americans look like a bunch of whiny babies..and FYI most Americans are whiny.

Did u really compare Native Americans to Athenians and Monguls? Whoa dude u need to go to school. Native Americans are a race, just like hispanic, asian, black, white. They are not some primitive ancient society that once existed. They were an already existing self governing community that was pilaged,raped, and nearly completely exterminated.
Thats like saying China should come over here, kill every american becuase old societies get replaced by new ones. WOW. Genious LOL.
Honestly is pretty hilarious.
People like you are what make war exist. U think its the only answer. Military does that to u im sure. U go fight. Ill stay here and be smarter than u.
 

KnicksFan4Realz

Benchwarmer
Did u really compare Native Americans to Athenians and Monguls? Whoa dude u need to go to school. Native Americans are a race, just like hispanic, asian, black, white. They are not some primitive ancient society that once existed. They were an already existing self governing community that was pilaged,raped, and nearly completely exterminated.

Thats like saying China should come over here, kill every american becuase old societies get replaced by new ones. WOW. Genious LOL.
Honestly is pretty hilarious.

People like you are what make war exist. U think its the only answer. Military does that to u im sure. U go fight. Ill stay here and be smarter than u.

Don't get upset because you don't like the facts of human history, pal. Societies become crushed, formed, fall apart, reform, become stable, conquer, and reform all over again. It's a cycle that has been playing out since the dawn of mankind well before you even get into the issue of organized military and warfare.

War exists naturally within the state of human beings. You people always thinking it has to do with a certain breed of person is laughable. From men fighting over supplies of water, land, livestock, women...wow but because they form a state and then declare war..what they are fighting over is different? It's no different. But somehow because we sit here in the 21 century...you think humans are above this...you think it's all pointless and is going to end...there is always going to fighting and competition over resources.

I don't know why you folks never realize that fact, or like to admit it.

Just because it happens in more modern times folks like you get all shocked and shaken as if this is not the norm, you are the one who needs to crack open the history books and realize the world is not the sugar coated topping you like to keep licking beneath it has a very sour taste.

Ohh the Native Americans...ohh the Blacks....give me a break...it's a cycle of the same thing...that has always happened..only difference is it's in what we call now "modern times"...because in say 10,000 years should we make it that long...we shall be that "ancient past"...and they'll be doing the same thing.

U folks need to deal in reality, not idealistic fantasies.

Old societies become abolished, new one's form...period.

The military does not do that to people, but you so called intellectuals always think you are the smartest folks in the room. The only difference between you and me...I see the world for what it is...you see it for what it should be. And there can only be one actuality at a time.

People like you who never serve, never put your ass on the line for no one but yourself...try and sit here and dictate to me...RIGHT that will be the day. Put your life in another's strangers hands, and defend other's literally with your own then you come back and tell me something about people like me. When a conflict does arise...tell me how your words are going to save you when the bullets start flying...and if you think it will never come to that guess again...we went from stone weapons, to metal, to now guns and missiles...even the most peaceful of societies believed in defense.

Why don't you go back to your tofu and worry about saving the trees...I'm sure being soft does that to you as well.
 

metrocard

Legend
Did u really compare Native Americans to Athenians and Monguls? Whoa dude u need to go to school. Native Americans are a race, just like hispanic, asian, black, white. They are not some primitive ancient society that once existed. They were an already existing self governing community that was pilaged,raped, and nearly completely exterminated.
Thats like saying China should come over here, kill every american becuase old societies get replaced by new ones. WOW. Genious LOL.
Honestly is pretty hilarious.
People like you are what make war exist. U think its the only answer. Military does that to u im sure. U go fight. Ill stay here and be smarter than u.


Accually as a Puerto Rican/Dominican...I don't indentify with "Hispanic"

Hispanic is just a label, its not a race...race isn't even real, when the human race is the only real race to consider.

Most Dominicans are triracials with alot of african/european descent, you even got Chinese people in the Dominican Republic who speak spanish and sell chinese with spanish food, which is mad good. The same goes for Puerto Rico, Brasil, etc.

Saying things like Native American and African is being too general. Majority of Native Americans did not work together until they were facing a life or death situation with their back against walls fighting European settlers. Before that, they use to have tribal wars against each other for power and dominance. Same thing happend in Africa, hell Africa is so diverse you could barely count how many tribes they were. The winning tribe kept the losers as slaves and sold them to Euros who wanted to use them in the Americas.

This has always been apart of history, domination and imperialism has been the root to power nations for centuries.

While I would agree, there is racism in America. But it can be overcome and it won't stop you from being successful in this country if you know the right people and do what you have to do for yourself and your future.

School in the US just teaches how to study one major, get a job, work for a boss, and work for wages for the rest of your life. If there was no minimum wage, the boss would pay you $2-$3 dollars an hour, basically modern day slavery. People in this country work to not get fired. My mom gets paid 42,000 a year working for the city...she's not happy about it, and she's not getting much support from my pops, but shes still going through it and not get fired, because she is helping me through college, thats why I'm working now to help her pay the bills and pay my own bills also.

But I try not to be negative. I'm happy I have these problems. Its definitely better than walking 15 miles to get clean water, or living in the projects of Puerto Rico surrounded by drugs, corrupted police and violence.
 

GiantsKnickFan

Benchwarmer
Accually as a Puerto Rican/Dominican...I don't indentify with "Hispanic"

Hispanic is just a label, its not a race...race isn't even real, when the human race is the only real race to consider.

Most Dominicans are triracials with alot of african/european descent, you even got Chinese people in the Dominican Republic who speak spanish and sell chinese with spanish food, which is mad good. The same goes for Puerto Rico, Brasil, etc.

Saying things like Native American and African is being too general. Majority of Native Americans did not work together until they were facing a life or death situation with their back against walls fighting European settlers. Before that, they use to have tribal wars against each other for power and dominance. Same thing happend in Africa, hell Africa is so diverse you could barely count how many tribes they were. The winning tribe kept the losers as slaves and sold them to Euros who wanted to use them in the Americas.

This has always been apart of history, domination and imperialism has been the root to power nations for centuries.

While I would agree, there is racism in America. But it can be overcome and it won't stop you from being successful in this country if you know the right people and do what you have to do for yourself and your future.

School in the US just teaches how to study one major, get a job, work for a boss, and work for wages for the rest of your life. If there was no minimum wage, the boss would pay you $2-$3 dollars an hour, basically modern day slavery. People in this country work to not get fired. My mom gets paid 42,000 a year working for the city...she's not happy about it, and she's not getting much support from my pops, but shes still going through it and not get fired, because she is helping me through college, thats why I'm working now to help her pay the bills and pay my own bills also.

But I try not to be negative. I'm happy I have these problems. Its definitely better than walking 15 miles to get clean water, or living in the projects of Puerto Rico surrounded by drugs, corrupted police and violence.

Im Domincan so i understand. But to me, Hispanic isnt derogatory and is a label but i didnt want to get into the whole Spanish-speaking descent thing cuase a columbian might say he doesnt consider himself latin, a mexican might consider himself of asian descent etc. i was trying to be general to make a point that just becuase it has been all over history, it does not make it right. And it shows the lack of due diligence to learn from human mistakes.
 

KnicksFan4Realz

Benchwarmer
One basic point...all current civilizations will crumble and fall...a new one will form...now whether they fall from having warring factions within themselves or from outside influences is of no real consequence. Whether or not through means of warfare, but just one society becoming so large it infringes on it's neighbors peacefully, one will fall and become incorporated into the larger...regardless. So it is indeed a nihilistic concept to argue whether or not warfare is necessary because the concept does not change, only the means through upon which it is executed whether by the sword, the pen...really doesn't matter.

Society right now is in fractions with members seeing themselves as members of nations, different tribes, of different customs etc... won't be very long till they all fall come together...and break up again...creation is destruction, destruction is creation..all part of the perpetual cycle of the universe.
 
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