Well the true God respects all life. Only one gave life, so rightfully he feels he is the only one who should take it. Any man doing so is not doing so according to his will.
Again, the true God would not condone stoning of any children. Especially since he sent his own son to save us.
Don't know why we can't eat shellfish, unless you're allergic.
The people that are gay are not the abomination, the act is. Strictly because God said so. Just like fornication is, like murder is.... All an abomination to him him.
And there is a verse in the bible that says " It is not even left to earthly man to guide his own footsteps".
Yes... for centuries now man has tried to guide his own footsteps to his own detriment. Government after government, regime after regime, and have not gotten it right yet. But that is no surprise since mans rebellion started in the garden when Adam and Eve decided to guide their own footsteps and turn away from God. We been having trouble since. If man continues to guide his own steps as you say, when will things get better? The world becoming a better place day by day? I see people crying for peace, yet war is all the more prevelant. Instead of governments feeding the people they govern, the spend their money on nuclear weapons in the unending race for arms. Instead of them helping the sick, they seek to enrich themselves to live better lives.
So this getting away from God has actually been the reason things are the way they are. And it's really not opinion, it's fact. Good thing there is a hope.
John 17:3. Enjoy...
Or since it's mostly in the Old Testament it could mean Judaism is the bull**** religion.
But since Christians made it apart of their canon it has to be true for them as well.
But the biggest reason why Christianity is a fake religion is because of what happened to Jesus.
Because one cannot sacrifice the innocent for the guilty under and circumstance to cleanse the actions of the guilty. Even if the innocent choose to do this it cannot be allowed, because this goes against the entire concept of justice. It makes no rational sense. Only in such a warped backwards faith could it make sense and be acceptable at the same time to punish a person who has done nothing wrong by act or willful omission on the behalf of the guilty.
The God of the Christian Bible therefore has to be a fake. Because a true moral just GOD could not allow such to happen.
Unless of course GOD himself is amoral. Now if GOD is amoral this would make alot more sense.
the fact is... your philosophy is amoral... abandoning your fellow man... fighting in unjustified wars against the international society? you fault others for not fighting... does that mean you think the invasion and ensuing occupation of iraq were justified? what rights were you defending then? we invade a sovereign nation... murder it's rulers sons... and put it's leader on trial... c'mon man... even you gotta see something is wrong with that...
if we all embrace the principles and tenets of the bible... not any specific religion... our world would be full of love... ****... jesus hung with prostitutes, tax collectors and leppers... he was a man of the people when he could have easily flaunted his power for personal gain... but he instead educated us about love...
i'm done with this topic... since it's clear you're jaded toward the world around you and lack compassion for your fellow man... i aint mad atcha... just don't see the point of a circular argument...
this was some thought provoking **** though i must say... best thread i've been involved in... metro... giantknicksfan... donchris... that's some real **** y'all are on... stay on the grind and keep fighting the system...
let's make no excuses... but love each other on life's journey...
An amoral person such as myself does not adhere to any moral code whatsoever, for me there is no such thing as what it is to be "moral" or "immoral" to me it's just a bull**** concept. Only because what is moral can be too loosely integrated into what is immoral and vice versa. Just depends on the circumstances surrounding the decision making process.
Like I said God or Jesus..sacrificing their innocent self for the guilty under the concept of what justice is cannot logically co-exist. But most Christians tend to shrug that logical point of with counter arguments of faith, after all if you are a Christian or any other faith you do believe in martyrdom, it comes with the concept of faith in the first place.
Abandoning my fellow man? Hardly no I took fire for my fellow man, I caught shrapnel in my back for my fellow man, I volunteered for the supposed "greater good" of my fellow man.
But what did I come back to? A nation of a good deal of my supposed fellow man, whom sit and criticize me for my service yet purely do everything that is at most a benefit to themselves only. A nation of people whom think that people like me who volunteer for the service either must be crazed, lunatic, have a broken moral compass, or what's the other I've been called sociopath-ic.
These are the fellow men I did all those for? The are the sorts of people I went through all that for to ensure their rights their freedoms, to fight, to protect...it's not the war I'm against I do think it was just...and I think in 20 years the ends will justify the means for a more stable Middle East. But the backlash from people who worry bitch about not having enough memory on an Ipod, or when the next movie is coming out, people who criticize the war yet buy violent video games, listen to violent music, watch violent television...people that will play games like counterstrike yet if it came down to play soldier for real...would put up this big front to how I'm the one who is immoral and should be ashamed. ****ing nerve of these people.
My cousin and I both served..I went into the Army..he the Marines..he was apart of the Thundering 3rd...part of one of bloodiest battles in USMC history...he's gone now. I'm raising his younger brother's son...yet I have people that will **** and piss all over his memory all because he was a soldier, doing what he felt was right not only his best interest...but his fellow man's. Of all the "jobs" we could've taken out of HS we chose this, all for the greater good of the community.
After serving just under 5 years to the day...and his death...I realize I loved the service, but I hate what I have to come back to a nation of ingratiated babies and whiners, I walk around people ain't talking about the war, the soldiers...it's about Paris Hilton, or Imus, or Mike Vick, or Isiah Washington and his comments, or the flaws of the Xbox 360, or the high cost of the PS3...people complained about high gas prices yet camped out for these luxury items.
A sov nation that was unofficially officially allowing terrorists to go between there and other places in the middle east, and yet people wonder why it is so hard to nail all these people down...Iraq I remember the first day we went in...the ghetto's of America got nothing on that place...and in Afghanistan people here really take **** for granted.
Women bitch about 30 cents here...over there they breathe the wrong way it's punishable by death...worship the wrong GOD...ha....people complain about paying higher gas prices...come out there and see the mass graves we did not put there...or see people that in order to prove a political point blow up their own in an act of defiance...but being pc you people call it our fault... and say we are responsible...terrorism is much deeper than what people would like to know or admit...if the whole truth really did come on on tv...people think Bush tried to scare folks into not doing things and speaking against the government...I'm just hoping they declassify 1/3 of the **** I was privy to know.
Yeah yeah every Muslim don't mean US harm...but not all of them don't mean you harm either.
But getting back to my sense of being amoral...**** after returning...**** just don't matter anymore. The things you people complain about, the things you people point the finger at, sickens me...the citizenry of this country sickens me...this country's hypocrisy towards the military sickens me yet folks will line up to go by and watch and listen to the most violent **** you ever did see..yet someone who volunteers to go ward off the danger..you call them immoral.
I was compassionate before this war started, I was compassionate while I served, but coming back here...just made me realize I was stupid for even thinking my fellow man is compassionate himself. So now to those that can't and do not want to take the initial step and do for themselves and want to blame everyone but themselves for their failings in life...I say **** em...they deserve what they get, 6 billion plus people on the planet life isn't sacred at all...I miss my cousin I do..but he's only sacred to me...other's will always just see him as an evil soldier.
So I say **** this society, and it's supposed morality. I grew up, I realized the truth.
I became amoral.
Nothing anyone does is blood free. The only difference is people get upset when your job has essentially more blood on it than others. It's fake outrage once again. Nothing more.
"Ohh you joined the military you're just a mindless killing machine"
"You're a customer service agent for a credit card company that prays on college students and high school students whom most often don't no the sh*t you are trying to get them into, and bad credit can ruin your life literally...and yet you sit there and judge me"
"Least when I joined the military I knew ending lives physically maybe part of the job if ever asked of me, you ruin lives for good without firing a single shot...there are some things worse than death and you contribute to those"
Better to be dead, than to not be able to get a loan or a good actual job because you credit score is just not up to par and you and your constantly living in the cycle of poverty.
But I'm more of a MOD than you? Because my uniform says US Army...give me a fu*king break. So full of yourself.
What is moral changes direction in the wind just like taking a piss.
Are you refering to what happend to Pharoah in Egypt?
And this stoning the kids, where'd you find that? Under the mosaic law? What passage?
And since you totally miss the point of God's Justice, I will give you a pass on NOT understanding Jesus ransom sacrifice. Hence I will explain it to you.
If you cared enough to wanna know ( which clearly you do not on your own, yet comment on something you're unfamiliar with ) You'd understand rather simply why Jesus Sacrifice was the perfect form of Justice.
Adam Lost the right for humanity to live perfectly in subjection to God due to his sin. Everything God makes is perfect in the sense. Adam and Eve both were at a time as well. Problem with them is once they disobeyed they became sinners, and lost the right for God to sustain their lives. Which is why years later they in turn died. That day however, they wrecked God's purpose for humankind, which was to live to time indefinite having all other living souls in subjection to mankind, and pro create ( which is the sole reason being gay is an abomination, since you can put Tom an Steve in the same room having sexual relations forever and they'd have not one child through intercourse, which makes that behavior rather immoral, and not up to Godly standards )
Since whatever God says is his will he must do, he allowed mankind to live on because he said they must fill the earth. Regardless to the sin that would naturally inherit Adam's offspring, God's will had to be done. But he immediately knew he'd have to fix mankind's standing with him and get back what Adam lost, because it is his will that Mankind lord over the earth. Hence the very first prophecy where he tells Satan in Genesis 3:15"15 And I shall put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed. He will bruise you in the head and you will bruise him in the heel.”
The seed here being spoken of is God's womanlike Christian orginization. It's seed is the Christ, the true way of how God wants man to live and worship, the other seed being Satan's way of living, and false religion itself as a whole ( which there is a lot of unfortunately )
Jesus purpose is to show people the way his Father intended for us to live ( which should have been Adam's job ) and worship his father. So that we can gain life. But you wanna know how his death meant Justice, correct? Well if Adam was a perfect human before he sinned and died, God's perfect sense of justice would be a similar being in standing, in place for what the first lost. Hence the SOLE reason Jesus had to be born from a virgin. Because Imperfect man cannot concieve perfectly. So in that aspect, Jesus was on every level physically and mentally that Adam was at a time before sin. NOW, Jesus had to live his life WITHOUT SIN, REMAIN in that fashion, all the while preaching the good news of his Father's coming Kingdom, making disciples along the way to keep the work going, AND DIE SINLESS. That way he has wiped the slate clean for sinners like you and I so we can if we obey God's will, gain back the salvation that was meant for us ALLLLLLL the way back at the garden of Eden.
Also, it was not God who killed Jesus in that manner, it was the adversary, the one whom " Will bruise him in the heel " Jesus was meant to die. if he did not we could not then gain life. God does not take suffering lightly at all, but the devil surely does not mind. Hence the reason the world is it's sad state today, and nothing earthly man can do or think of on their own can fix it. Contrary to some popular belief
That is why Jesus can say as he did in John 17:3 " This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ." Because in order to gain life, you must gain accurate knowledge of the giver of life, and the ransom he provided for us to do that was his only begotton son.
Notice the words, ONLY TRUE GOD. If there is an only true God, why would this true god be happy that men he made, serve other God's who don't exist? Which would in short answer one of your questions off top.
TRUE Christianity ( Not all faiths that claim to be Christian are true, actually there is only one true Christian faith . And Jesus acknowledged both of these points before his death) cannot be bs based off the bible in itself. The prophecies foretold there are nothing short of remarkable, and precise. Nothing out of place. The Jews believed this wholeheartedly and expected the birth of Jesus, hence why King Herod went out to kill the first born's in Jerusalem, because they knew of the true God and his purposes. Or read about Cyrus the persian if not from a bible, in a history book. And how years before even his birth Cyrus was prophecied to be the one to restore Jerusalem as a place of worship for God's people. For the True God spoke of his very name and power...before even his birth! Or how bout other things like, the Earth being called a sphere that hangs on nothing, long before earthly man figured out " Hey , maybe the earth is not flat after all "
I don't know about you, but I'm about tired of mankind trying to figure out the answers. I'd rather deal with the source of live, Im more than positive he can figure it out somehow...
Last edited by Knicks4lyfe; Jul 22, 2007 at 21:04.
Come on guys, you cannot argue about religion. Either you believe or you don't. There is no way to prove it right and no way to prove it wrong. That is the whole concept of BELIEVING.
Wasn't this discussion about about Marbury's blog and the discount sneakers anyways? You have gone a bit off-topic. Maybe someone should move this thread.
[quote=pat;34866]Come on guys, you cannot argue about religion. Either you believe or you don't. There is no way to prove it right and no way to prove it wrong. That is the whole concept of BELIEVING.
Not true. Jesus did exist. It has been proven. But you are right about it being a choice to believe or not.
Rady, can you lock this thread? I have no idea how it went from steph's stupid blog to an arguement on martyrdom
there's some interesting talk inhere, i'm gonna leave it for few more days, then i'm gonna split the offtopic posts into a different thread
Jesus was a man. A very special man. The fact that he existed means God's impeccable word remains in tact! That goes along with everything else he has ever done, or will in due time DO!
Jesus existence and what he accomplished during his life is the biggest witness of his father being the only true God. But the only true God did not make mankind robots. We still have the choice to believe what we wish. But proof of God was never more evident than in his son. Whether people believe in the witness his son gave is strictly on them. But Jesus existing is the proof. Same as mankind once believed the world was flat. Yet the bible said the earth is a sphere that hangs on nothing. Do we not now know the earth is a sphere that hangs on nothing?
God loves man so much he gave us free will. In turn he only wants us to serve him out of that same love he instills in us. Not because he can make us. Hence why he did not make a tree fall in the garden to scare Eve into remembering she was about to sin. It was her choice, same as believing in his son is our choice. But whether we believe or not does not make what he says and does any less true. Because he is the truest of trues... his word has never failed.
Where's the proof of this Jesus that does not exist in any form of a religious text? Another words where is there proof that there was a man named Jesus who walked the earth around A.D. 1 from a source that has absolutely nothing to do with religion?
And objective source that says Jesus actually existed is what I'd like to know where to look....
And if you got that you'd believe? These things are not hard to find. You are a very intellectual individual. Im pretty sure... you can come up with something.
My part of the argument was just that if the world applied biblical principles, it'd be a lot better off. You said Christianity was bs. I agree that the false aspects of Christianty are, but the true form of it is FAR from it.
On you to agree, or disagree. But I have stated my part of the argument very well. The same history books that talk of Cyrus the Persian who Jesus Father foretold of in the old testament, should have non religious proof Jesus existed. They are out there.