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Thread: Has crawford really improved? Is he better than a mediocre SG?

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    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
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    Crawford has the talent to be an All-Star. If he just worked on his 3-point shooting efficiency and made better decisions with his shot selection he could be a "Ray Allen" type shooting guard. Ofcourse the important thing to remember is that he could be an All-Star. There are a lot of guys that have talent but don't use it properly.

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    Why are there two threads devoted to JC this week? I've been really critical of Jamal this off season for some reason so I went to NBA.com and just watched some of his highlights last night. The thing that impresses me about Jamal is his ability to hit tough shots...the thing that pisses me off about Jamal is that he often causes shots to be difficult shots. I mean I want to say he has potential but, like it was stated earlier, can we really be saying that about a seven year player who still makes rookie mistakes. I mean we still say Eddy has "potential" to be this or that, but it almost seems more realistic to think Eddy's game will evolve. To Jamal's credit there have been times when he has stepped up for us, like in the home game against Pheonix this past season, we were undermanned playing an elite team, and he kept us in it, and like was also stated he has a positive attitude both on and off the court. But I think he may be better suited for another team, what can we get from him if he is not scoring is the question I often pose on this site. A player like Kobe, D- Wade, Rip, or Joe Johnson will take advantage of him on defense. Again to his credit he can light them up too when he's hot, but it is a real hit or miss with Jamal either his is lighting up D-Wade or getting burned by Willie Green. I remember the game against the Bulls this year when we were mounting a comeback and, he was in a 1 on 3 fast break, and he forces the shot I think gets called for a charge, then the Bulls come down a bury a 3 the next possesion breaking our momentum. And that is the problem after 7 years he's still making those mistakes, seriously Mardy Collins a rookie wouldn't have made that mistake, I don't think Nate as a sophomore would've either (and that's saying something). I like his handle on the ball, and he's as quick a guard in the NBA, but these are offensive traits ! Our interior D is the worst in the League! So we need solid defenders on the perimeter, not the type who can play D at times. If what I read was true that he just started playing less than 10 years ago, then that would explain his lack of knowledge of the game, I just don't think he knows anything other than put the ball in the hoop. Can he come back with a new understanding after this off season?....yeah in fact I think all the talk of compettion in the backcourt may mean that all of our guards are going to be working hard this offseason on their weaknesses, so I am in no way saying he's a lost cause. But what he shows us this year is who he's going to be for the rest of his NBA career. So the potential tag has been lifted, Steve is gone so there is no question as to who is starting and who's coming off the bench at the 2, and now let's see what we have here, another Rip, or another Ricky Davis, Ray Allen or J.R. Smith.

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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    I hope you are not suggesting that Matt Carrol is better than Crawford? Or Barnes. Not buying it. These guys are spot up shooters, and one trick ponies. Not even fair.

    Jamal went down, the triple teams on Curry picked up. So as bad as you say he is as a shooter, the league must did not agree with you. H is by no means automatic from deep, but his mid range game is pretty solid. And because of his handle, he does not need to run off a million screen like Hamilton. Plus, rip is faster, so he gets around them very quickly. JC does not have that type of speed. They are diff. Rip is a better shooter. Period.

    JC can however be a better scorer than him because of what he can create on his own. If you watched Crawford last year based on play, you would see clearly he was a better player. Took smarter shots, way more free throws, and created for others as well. And anyone REALLY paying attention last year knows with a healthy Crawford, we beat a lot of those teams we gave close games without him... mainly because Curry would not be a gazillion teamed, and we'd have one more player to help Curry and Steph score.
    .
    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    For what he have going inside, Crawford fits the team just fine. Are there better players at his position in the league? For sure. But he is not a bum. By no means is he that. And he is more than capable of playing well on this team. He is not the problem.
    .
    Originally Posted by datruth
    well he supposedly only play 2 years of high school basketball and 1 year of college basketball but thats not really an excuse, but the fact some of ya make it seem jamal is a bum is pathetic like comparing em to jamey caroll and matt barrnes is outragoues
    Originally Posted by ShairanXIII
    let's not **** on our own just cuz there's better out there... crawford has all star potential... but he needs to smarten up... i would only move him if we got a money scorer in return (kapono, mo peterson)...
    Originally Posted by GiantsKnickFan
    I think crawford is good player. There are only 2 other players in the nba with more game winning shots the last 2 seasons than crawford. Thats clutch.
    I think he is best suited to be a back up to either the PG or SG. Hes too inconsistant when starting.. when LB made him his 6th man, jamal played the best of his career. Last yr, IT gave jamal full confidence and jamal regressed back to his chucking up fade away 3's all game.
    Make him come off the bench. Collins can play well next to marbury, that will also help our perimter D, and can have steph play off the ball for a lil bit. since marbury improved his shooting from 3 last yr, this is could work.


    Knicks for life and datruth write he's not better than mat carrol, i'm not saying they have better games, they are just better SG. With all the scoring options we have, Curry, Zach, marbury, q-rich even robinson off bench. Do we really need another scorer or just some one who can take a step back and consistently hit 3's. Like those guys i compared him to. They also were cheap, p.s. mat carrol just inked himself a nice little long term contract. We only need a role player with all the other scoreing. Take away jamaals game, are you saying marbury and nate can't break people down? are you saying no one else has mid range jumper? not q rich or zach? every part of his game,except his heart, is replacable. I'll give him that he tries hard. But passing to curry? any point guard worth his salt should be able to do that? isn't that a point guard job, feeding the big men inside?

    and shairan we don't need a great scoring sg, we just need someone defenses don't want to leave open behind the 3. Hate to say it but most other shooting guards can do that. We have plenty of scoring elsewhere.

    knicksforlife, lets not get crazy with the triple teams. I'll give you the double teams not triple teams.
    Giantsknickfan, your right on track, crawford is a good back up pg/sg type player. He's good off the bench. He's not a spot up shooter that can help spread the defense. You are right he did regress back to his chucking days in some games. I'd like to see him play a less dominant role in the offense, less shots, let zach take more mid range give marbury more shots take a couple away from jamaal. He's an overpaid backup, that shots to much. But where did you get that stat about the most game winning shots? I'd like to see that. I'd also like to see how many chances these other guys had, plus how many he didn't make, i watched 80% of games. I remember a few games where he came up big and a bunch more where he came up short.

    I'm not saying he's a bumb or worthless, he's just overpaid and not as good as people give him credit for. He's mediocre. He's dare i say it again, replacable. I'm telling you, get a real SG and you guys would never know he's gone. I'm telling you. Get a guy who makes more and shoots less, like matt carrol. That will leave more shots and scoring oppurtunities for the people on the knicks with more talent! Sure him and curry had chemistry, but jamaal and his midrange jumper took away fryes game. We need a pure PG and a pure SG, not a bunch of PG who act like sg's (marbury, robinson and fransis when here) and not SG who can't shoot and has to act as PG because we don't have a true one!!! I'm telling you for what we're paying him, we should get more...I hope jamaal proves me wrong. But So far each season his stats seem very similar each year, and the win total also! So I need to see some big improvements from him to become a crawford supporter. Or he'll always be the back up that gets to start and shoot to much to me. LB had his role Nailed! less shots, take only better shots and come off the bench. Now we need a real SG to start!

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    Superstar jzero29's Avatar
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    Nyk Logo great post isiahs advocate

    Thats the truth, you said it. No more potential no more he improved so much last year, whe n he actually regressed. It's time for jamaal to put up, or shut up and become a career back up. Smeone thats only plays a role. I'd like to have him comming off the bench hitting clutch shots for us. But I haven't seen anything from him to show he should be a starter. He certainly hasn't shown me he should shot so much. But Lets play ball. He's got his shot. now let the chips fall where they may.

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    Is it me or is Jamal more valuable to this team than steph? Our three best players last year was curry, lee, and crawford before he got injured, hands down marbury was played real good for just 3 months. and the season before that, Q, Crawford, and frye. Crawford won games by himself last season, he adapts easily to any style of play that the coach wants, while it takes marbury (who's been in the leage 11 years) half a season to get the concept of passing the ball to eddy curry. Dont get me wrong crawford can be replaced, but there aren't a lot of available SG that will fill his position better. to me Marubury is more expendable at his position.

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    Originally Posted by Isiah's Advocate 33
    Why are there two threads devoted to JC this week? I've been really critical of Jamal this off season for some reason so I went to NBA.com and just watched some of his highlights last night. The thing that impresses me about Jamal is his ability to hit tough shots...the thing that pisses me off about Jamal is that he often causes shots to be difficult shots. I mean I want to say he has potential but, like it was stated earlier, can we really be saying that about a seven year player who still makes rookie mistakes. I mean we still say Eddy has "potential" to be this or that, but it almost seems more realistic to think Eddy's game will evolve. To Jamal's credit there have been times when he has stepped up for us, like in the home game against Pheonix this past season, we were undermanned playing an elite team, and he kept us in it, and like was also stated he has a positive attitude both on and off the court. But I think he may be better suited for another team, what can we get from him if he is not scoring is the question I often pose on this site. A player like Kobe, D- Wade, Rip, or Joe Johnson will take advantage of him on defense. Again to his credit he can light them up too when he's hot, but it is a real hit or miss with Jamal either his is lighting up D-Wade or getting burned by Willie Green. I remember the game against the Bulls this year when we were mounting a comeback and, he was in a 1 on 3 fast break, and he forces the shot I think gets called for a charge, then the Bulls come down a bury a 3 the next possesion breaking our momentum. And that is the problem after 7 years he's still making those mistakes, seriously Mardy Collins a rookie wouldn't have made that mistake, I don't think Nate as a sophomore would've either (and that's saying something). I like his handle on the ball, and he's as quick a guard in the NBA, but these are offensive traits ! Our interior D is the worst in the League! So we need solid defenders on the perimeter, not the type who can play D at times. If what I read was true that he just started playing less than 10 years ago, then that would explain his lack of knowledge of the game, I just don't think he knows anything other than put the ball in the hoop. Can he come back with a new understanding after this off season?....yeah in fact I think all the talk of compettion in the backcourt may mean that all of our guards are going to be working hard this offseason on their weaknesses, so I am in no way saying he's a lost cause. But what he shows us this year is who he's going to be for the rest of his NBA career. So the potential tag has been lifted, Steve is gone so there is no question as to who is starting and who's coming off the bench at the 2, and now let's see what we have here, another Rip, or another Ricky Davis, Ray Allen or J.R. Smith.
    Jamal has improved every year since he's been here. If you've watched Jamal from his chicago days up until this season, he has stopped playing reckless and passes more. I know he is still inconsistent as far as shooting but he is not the same player he was on the Bulls.

    A lot of this had to do with L. Brown and Jamal is better because of it. Defensively, Jamal isn't the worst defender and does a good job of using those long arms to poke the ball away. I guess it would help him to move his feet a bit more instead of relying on his wingspan to cover area.

    I'm not worried about Crawford's game because as bad as people want to make him out to be, he was one of our best players and you can make an argument that with him in the lineup at the end we would have made the playoffs.

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    Superstar jzero29's Avatar
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    Nyk Logo No he hasn't

    Originally Posted by nyk_nyk
    Jamal has improved every year since he's been here. If you've watched Jamal from his chicago days up until this season, he has stopped playing reckless and passes more. I know he is still inconsistent as far as shooting but he is not the same player he was on the Bulls.

    A lot of this had to do with L. Brown and Jamal is better because of it. Defensively, Jamal isn't the worst defender and does a good job of using those long arms to poke the ball away. I guess it would help him to move his feet a bit more instead of relying on his wingspan to cover area.
    .
    Crawford had better assit numbers in his last season with chicago(means he passed better). His numbers are very similar to what they are now, except he has more turnovers and less assists now, than in chicago, because he is a poor passer, has excellent handle for a SG, but below avg for a PG. Still makes poor decisions Like a rookie!(as isiahs advocate pointed out) I really wish people would stop saying he's improved!!! Look at his stats! He was winning more in chicago than he is here! He had a career year with chicago in every stat! Not one is as good as it was then! Got to his player profile and look. He at times plays good, but often reverts to old form. I just can't say it enough. He's a good guy to have on the bench a role player. Shouldn't be paid as much(but you can say that about 90% of the knicks. I give up!!!

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    Originally Posted by jzero29
    Crawford had better assit numbers in his last season with chicago(means he passed better). His numbers are very similar to what they are now, except he has more turnovers and less assists now, than in chicago, because he is a poor passer, has excellent handle for a SG, but below avg for a PG. Still makes poor decisions Like a rookie!(as isiahs advocate pointed out) I really wish people would stop saying he's improved!!! Look at his stats! He was winning more in chicago than he is here! He had a career year with chicago in every stat! Not one is as good as it was then! Got to his player profile and look. He at times plays good, but often reverts to old form. I just can't say it enough. He's a good guy to have on the bench a role player. Shouldn't be paid as much(but you can say that about 90% of the knicks. I give up!!!
    Okay so tell me who you would replace Crawford with right now that's available?

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    Originally Posted by nyk_nyk
    Okay so tell me who you would replace Crawford with right now that's available?
    Q-rich or marbury at SG or an old sneaker. Heck i'd even take a boot. Is becky hammon available? realistically, you couldn't just trade him, You'd have to part with some of the new blood, maybe morris and somebody else. Even if there was someon out there you couldn't sign him without gettingrid of crawford. Realistically because of crawford we couldn't get anyone for him either. My point is he hasn't improved really that much at all in the last 3-4 years. I'm just saying it was a bad move to sign him. There was talent out there. this off season, rashard lewis. was a sign and trade for a draft pick. Mo peterson.(may have been restricted) You can get a guy like mat carrol or mat barnes cheap, but solid, paly better d, more consistent shot, wouldn' need 15-20 shots a game to hit their number. You would have to rely more on other scores, but knicks have plenty of those(curry randolh marbury q-rich, nate). Would easy some ball sharing issues. If i could trade crawford for matt carrol i would, if the other team eats crawfords bloated salary. We'd take carrols modest salary and let him be a role player. He doesn't have the penetration jamaal has, but steph, and nate would have to pick up that slack and he's a better shooter, which is what the knicks need. Solid, not as streaky(all shooters are streaky, crawford more than most)

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    Nyk Logo Deshawn stevens,

    he'd have been nice. he signed for 11mil 4 yrs. shot better from 3pt range than crawford from anywhere on the floor, He would have been awesome, can shoot and defend. Mo peterson, mat carrol,( i don't care what anyone says about that, he would fit the knicks much better than jamaal does!!! He plays with heart and hustle also comes at a fraction of the price of crawford. You see any cheap sg could fill his spot and it would fix some of the knicks problems. Isiah has put to many versitile players on the same team, they all need to dominate the ball, he needs just some role players, would get the job done. A nice 3 point shooter would be great. Forget crawford, mr i do everything well, and nothing great! We need a great 3pt shooter.

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    Originally Posted by nyk_nyk
    . If you've watched Jamal from his chicago days up until this season, he has stopped playing reckless and passes more.
    Yes, we've watched Crawford, I'm sure you haven't to say that. Crawford is the same player from the Chicago trade. If he did really "progressed" We would have a 20 ppg 44% FG 37% 3pt shooter with solid defense who doesn't play like he's in the circus. But we don't. He's an average 3pt shooter who doesn't use his talent on the court the right way;he's a better mid range shooter than 3pt shooter, but is fearless on chucking ridiculous shots, instead of coming screens where he would be much more accurate on shooting. Crawford must believes he gets 2pt points for every crossover he does, that why he never finishes the play he's suppose to. He doesn't drive to the basketball enough, which just makes him a spectator on offense waiting to chuck or throw an alley-oop to Chubby. Therefor, Crawford is Crawford, a streaky inconsistent player you CANNOT rely on, unless you want to lose a lot of basketball games(hence one of the reasons Crawford has never help his team make the playoffs, this dude isn't just the type of guy to have on the team to win or make the playoffs, Crawford is only for entertainment). With that said, I have zero interest in Crawford, and under the circumstances, I would gladly trade him and let Richardson, Collins, Chandler, and Nichols patrol the SG area till we get an upgrade.

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    Originally Posted by reuel
    Is it me or is Jamal more valuable to this team than steph? Our three best players last year was curry, lee, and crawford before he got injured, hands down marbury was played real good for just 3 months. and the season before that, Q, Crawford, and frye. Crawford won games by himself last season, he adapts easily to any style of play that the coach wants, while it takes marbury (who's been in the leage 11 years) half a season to get the concept of passing the ball to eddy curry. Dont get me wrong crawford can be replaced, but there aren't a lot of available SG that will fill his position better. to me Marubury is more expendable at his position.
    Crawford lost a lot more games than he has won, by a large margain. He just isn't a smart basketball player. He's very careless with the ball and takes the shots that he doesn't need to take.

    Marbury is a superior NBA player compared to Jamal, by far. Marbury is B/B+ Crawford is a C+ player at best, would be a C cause his defense is so bad and he's one dementional.

    All this all star potential junk needs to go too. He's too one dementional and doesn't post up good enough all around stats to be an all star, period. The only way he makes the all star team if he averages 25 ppg. He couldn't even do that in Chicago as the main option. He's very talented, but his performance on the court is no where near All star level. A less talented guy like Ginobili made the all star averaged 15 or 16 ppg, why? Defensively, he's one of the best at his position, he was an excellent passer and an unselfish player, who at the same time was very entertaining and a smart basketball player, an all around game. You don't even need to be flashy...check out Rip Hamilton, dude is as one dementional at Crawford, but whats the difference? Consistency.

    There a tons of SG's in the NBA who can fill his position much better, from Kobe to Raja to even an all around combo guard like John Salmons who plays defense or a defensive role player like Francisco Garcia. These guys know how to play basketball. Send Crawford and Robinson back to the circus so they can preform their tricks. I'm tired of sacrificing wins so these bums can look autistic on the court.
    Last edited by metrocard; Jul 21, 2007 at 11:41.

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    well numbers dont represent everything cuz yeah FG% is not that good but jamal is in the position alot of times to take a shot wit 1 second on the shot clock and he's not like other NBA players who stumble/fumble the ball when the game clock is running down and they on the opposite side of the court, jamal doesnt worry about his numbers, that should count for something

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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Crawford lost a lot more games than he has won, by a large margain. He just isn't a smart basketball player. He's very careless with the ball and takes the shots that he doesn't need to take.

    Marbury is a superior NBA player compared to Jamal, by far. Marbury is B/B+ Crawford is a C+ player at best, would be a C cause his defense is so bad and he's one dementional.

    There a tons of SG's in the NBA who can fill his position much better, from Kobe to Raja to even an all around combo guard like John Salmons who plays defense or a defensive role player like Francisco Garcia. These guys know how to play basketball. Send Crawford and Robinson back to the circus so they can preform their tricks. I'm tired of sacrificing wins so these bums can look autistic on the court.
    Preach ! No disrespect to Jamal he's been a player that I've liked......but there are lesser know players who can make us better, the before mentioned Deshawn Stevenson ( who could be a Knick along with Butler if we didn't chase Jefferies) who can play the 3 and let Q slide back to the 2. What we need is a 2 with a high B Ball IQ, Jamal is a street baller who just happens to play in the NBA, remember how all impressed we all were with his off the back board dunks when he first got here because the Knicks lacked entertainment value during the Layden regime, and I think we never paid much attention to how incomplete a player he was. Now it has become clear that he's just a scorer (and not all that great of one). Also I don't know the Stats on this but he has to have the lowest scoring average, and feild goal pct, of any player to notch 50 plus in a season....meaning he is extremely streaky on any given night Jamal can score between 5 and 55 or knocking down 16 straight or missing 13 straight. Too bad Steve Kerr already dumped a contract in Seatle....that's it! we trade Jamal to Seatle for Kurt Thomas, see if Kurt wants to stay a Knick or not, if not waive him ( right before we waive Jerome James) and let him go to SA to win a championship ( Ex Knicks usaully win thier firs season in SA) ! it's a win win for all, Kurt either returns to the team that made him, or he wins a championship in his home town, Jamal returns home, and Seatlle gets a SG, we either add another complimentary bench player to our weak starting front court, or we cut a contract with just one season left on it. Someone send this propostion to Isiah please

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    Nyk Logo Finally some people who speak with reason?

    Thank you metrocard and Isaiahs add, I can't believe how many people like datruth and reul there are out there that don't see as much as he's exciting and fun sometimes, he's just plain aweful sometimes as well. I think a regular sg, a guy playing the role, would really work well with our line up. It would give more shots to our shot hungery offensive players. Forget crawfords handle we have a ton of point guards. Lets get a pure shooter. A deadly outside shot. let the PGs do the crossovers and penetrations! We have talented point guards in nate and steph. Hey if you take the ball out of crawfords hands and let someone else run the offense, you'll see the PGS assist #s rise. Trust me.

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