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Thread: Has crawford really improved? Is he better than a mediocre SG?

  1. #31
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    Originally Posted by jzero29
    Knicks for life and datruth write he's not better than mat carrol, i'm not saying they have better games, they are just better SG. With all the scoring options we have, Curry, Zach, marbury, q-rich even robinson off bench. Do we really need another scorer or just some one who can take a step back and consistently hit 3's. Like those guys i compared him to. They also were cheap, p.s. mat carrol just inked himself a nice little long term contract. We only need a role player with all the other scoreing. Take away jamaals game, are you saying marbury and nate can't break people down? are you saying no one else has mid range jumper? not q rich or zach? every part of his game,except his heart, is replacable. I'll give him that he tries hard. But passing to curry? any point guard worth his salt should be able to do that? isn't that a point guard job, feeding the big men inside?

    and shairan we don't need a great scoring sg, we just need someone defenses don't want to leave open behind the 3. Hate to say it but most other shooting guards can do that. We have plenty of scoring elsewhere.

    knicksforlife, lets not get crazy with the triple teams. I'll give you the double teams not triple teams.
    Giantsknickfan, your right on track, crawford is a good back up pg/sg type player. He's good off the bench. He's not a spot up shooter that can help spread the defense. You are right he did regress back to his chucking days in some games. I'd like to see him play a less dominant role in the offense, less shots, let zach take more mid range give marbury more shots take a couple away from jamaal. He's an overpaid backup, that shots to much. But where did you get that stat about the most game winning shots? I'd like to see that. I'd also like to see how many chances these other guys had, plus how many he didn't make, i watched 80% of games. I remember a few games where he came up big and a bunch more where he came up short.

    I'm not saying he's a bumb or worthless, he's just overpaid and not as good as people give him credit for. He's mediocre. He's dare i say it again, replacable. I'm telling you, get a real SG and you guys would never know he's gone. I'm telling you. Get a guy who makes more and shoots less, like matt carrol. That will leave more shots and scoring oppurtunities for the people on the knicks with more talent! Sure him and curry had chemistry, but jamaal and his midrange jumper took away fryes game. We need a pure PG and a pure SG, not a bunch of PG who act like sg's (marbury, robinson and fransis when here) and not SG who can't shoot and has to act as PG because we don't have a true one!!! I'm telling you for what we're paying him, we should get more...I hope jamaal proves me wrong. But So far each season his stats seem very similar each year, and the win total also! So I need to see some big improvements from him to become a crawford supporter. Or he'll always be the back up that gets to start and shoot to much to me. LB had his role Nailed! less shots, take only better shots and come off the bench. Now we need a real SG to start!
    I forgot exactly the source where i read it, i think i was stoned, but it said that Arenas and Kobe lead the league with 9 GW shots the past 2 seasons, Jamal was 2nd with 7. (and this doenst include game tying shots, its GW shots under 24 secs)

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    Originally Posted by GiantsKnickFan
    I forgot exactly the source where i read it, i think i was stoned, but it said that Arenas and Kobe lead the league with 9 GW shots the past 2 seasons, Jamal was 2nd with 7. (and this doenst include game tying shots, its GW shots under 24 secs)
    No mistake about it he wants the big shot and hits his share of them....but how many costly turnovers,bad shots, and missed game winning and game tying shots has he missed? Look up that stat compare it to the 7 game winners he's hit and see if it evens out. One more time I like Jamal, and wouldn't mind him as a 6th man, but not a starter, just like Nate he's a bench player. He's the only player in our starting lineup that would probably not start for too many other teams. Nate Jamal David Renaldo makes for probably the best bench in the league. Naturally my man Colllins slides to the PG w/ Steph at the 2. That just gives us a little more balance on Offense

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    Originally Posted by Isiah's Advocate 33
    No mistake about it he wants the big shot and hits his share of them....but how many costly turnovers,bad shots, and missed game winning and game tying shots has he missed? Look up that stat compare it to the 7 game winners he's hit and see if it evens out. One more time I like Jamal, and wouldn't mind him as a 6th man, but not a starter, just like Nate he's a bench player. He's the only player in our starting lineup that would probably not start for too many other teams. Nate Jamal David Renaldo makes for probably the best bench in the league. Naturally my man Colllins slides to the PG w/ Steph at the 2. That just gives us a little more balance on Offense
    its not only 7 cuz theres more where he hit big shots, for intance the last game he played b4 the injury against miami he knocked down a three to give the knicks a 4 point lead and also against the lakers he had the game winning assist, alley opp to curry, love em or hate em, he is the best knick in the clutch

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    Originally Posted by jzero29
    Knicks for life and datruth write he's not better than mat carrol, i'm not saying they have better games, they are just better SG. With all the scoring options we have, Curry, Zach, marbury, q-rich even robinson off bench. Do we really need another scorer or just some one who can take a step back and consistently hit 3's. Like those guys i compared him to. They also were cheap, p.s. mat carrol just inked himself a nice little long term contract. We only need a role player with all the other scoreing. Take away jamaals game, are you saying marbury and nate can't break people down? are you saying no one else has mid range jumper? not q rich or zach? every part of his game,except his heart, is replacable. I'll give him that he tries hard. But passing to curry? any point guard worth his salt should be able to do that? isn't that a point guard job, feeding the big men inside?

    and shairan we don't need a great scoring sg, we just need someone defenses don't want to leave open behind the 3. Hate to say it but most other shooting guards can do that. We have plenty of scoring elsewhere.

    knicksforlife, lets not get crazy with the triple teams. I'll give you the double teams not triple teams.
    Giantsknickfan, your right on track, crawford is a good back up pg/sg type player. He's good off the bench. He's not a spot up shooter that can help spread the defense. You are right he did regress back to his chucking days in some games. I'd like to see him play a less dominant role in the offense, less shots, let zach take more mid range give marbury more shots take a couple away from jamaal. He's an overpaid backup, that shots to much. But where did you get that stat about the most game winning shots? I'd like to see that. I'd also like to see how many chances these other guys had, plus how many he didn't make, i watched 80% of games. I remember a few games where he came up big and a bunch more where he came up short.

    I'm not saying he's a bumb or worthless, he's just overpaid and not as good as people give him credit for. He's mediocre. He's dare i say it again, replacable. I'm telling you, get a real SG and you guys would never know he's gone. I'm telling you. Get a guy who makes more and shoots less, like matt carrol. That will leave more shots and scoring oppurtunities for the people on the knicks with more talent! Sure him and curry had chemistry, but jamaal and his midrange jumper took away fryes game. We need a pure PG and a pure SG, not a bunch of PG who act like sg's (marbury, robinson and fransis when here) and not SG who can't shoot and has to act as PG because we don't have a true one!!! I'm telling you for what we're paying him, we should get more...I hope jamaal proves me wrong. But So far each season his stats seem very similar each year, and the win total also! So I need to see some big improvements from him to become a crawford supporter. Or he'll always be the back up that gets to start and shoot to much to me. LB had his role Nailed! less shots, take only better shots and come off the bench. Now we need a real SG to start!

    Again, I wonder which Knicks team you watched last year. Did Curry's numbers go up when Jamal went down? No, he did less, and teams made others do more. I wonder why? Maybe becuase they actually RESPECT Jamal's ability from the outside even though he can at times be streaky. The fact that he is so streaky garners respect as if he was NOT streaky. The sheer fact he can score 20 in a quarter before you know it scares teams enough to stretch the defense. No one is leaving him wide open. When does that happen? So again, tell me the need to get a one trick pony like Matt Carrol who can do nothing when a defender gets on him? Same for Barnes? That is why they don't get the huge money, because they can't defend, or put the ball on the floor. So that means they NEED to have other players around them to succeed at what they do best. Right now, on this Knicks team right now, Matt Carrol would STILL BE CRAWFORD'S BACKUP. TODAY. They press steph, who are you passing too? Carrol? They put Bowen on Carrol, is he scoring? Maybe if they double Eddie with Bowen. If not... Carrol gives you nothing. Can't go to the rim, no athleticism. Jump-shooter. Glorified Steve Kerr... IF THAT.

    The Cavs just got to the finals with a broken down Hughes and someone named Boobie along with Lebron. Who can REALLY shoot out of those 3? Now no one is underating having a great shooter at the 2... But I think you are overrating the need, especially on this team to have a great one.

    They have enough solid shooters to space the floor for Curry. When those solid shooters went down ( Q, Crawford, Nate for a bit ) All the sudden so did our scoring and effectiveness on offense. So that tells me despite how you feel personally about the SG on the team, the LEAGUE feels differently because they, unlike you respected the shooters we had. Enough to less frequently double a man in the middle no one can gaurd one on one.

    Far as triple teams are concerned, with no illegal defense and no perimeter threats, they certainly did triple Curry.

    Vs Orlando late in the season, I believe we lost by a point late, they freuqently had Battie in front, Dwight in back, and whoever the gaurd was opposite Steph, that player lagged off to make the entry pass tough. Basically daring Balkman, Collins, Rose, Hurt Francis or the like to shoot a long J. Battie, Howard and a g or forward... Yea... that's 3 people on one. Go back and watch some late tapes and see how they shaded their defenses the last 10 games or so to have two on Curry even without the ball, and bring the third defender down.

    And I was at a lot of these games, so I seen the angles the tv don't show...

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    Originally Posted by datruth
    its not only 7 cuz theres more where he hit big shots, for intance the last game he played b4 the injury against miami he knocked down a three to give the knicks a 4 point lead and also against the lakers he had the game winning assist, alley opp to curry, love em or hate em, he is the best knick in the clutch
    Alright lets have him in at the end of every game....just not the start! The problem is that every clutch play makes the highlights, so it appears that this guy is Tony Kukoc. But how many times have we seen that end of the game isolation play ran and the defender doesn't buy the cross over and he's shooting a fade away jumper from just inside the three off the wrong foot. It is actually the type of shot he takes too often during the course of the game. Look if any NBA player gets that many chances at the end of the game he'll a few down, I do admire his courage to want the shot, but let me ask you this would you consider Eddy clutch? He's hit a pair of free throws to force OT against Pheonix, caught a game winning alley oop, hit a Three at the buzzer against the Bucks, so does that make him the best clutch center in the league? Clutch to me is on both ends of the floor, preventing your man from hitting the game winner is just as important to me.How comfortable would you feel w/ Jamal isolated in the final seconds of the game with us up one? Case in point, take the ball from his hands and there is not much to him.

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    ummmmmm... let's remember the squad we had when we signed Mal...

    SG
    Penny Hardaway, Allan Houston, Jamal Crawford, Jermaine Jackson

    PG
    Stephon Marbury

    PF
    Maurice Taylor, Malik Rose, JYD, Butler, Sweetney

    SF
    Tim Thomas, Ariza

    C
    Bruno Sundov, K. Thomas
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    remember, we got Mal to be H20's back up yall... think about it as a GM... H20 is 33... recovering from knee surgery and prolly retiring soon... this kid in Chi just had a monster year and you've been following him for a few years now... perfect scenario is the kid learns the art of the SG from H20 and becomes his replacement when he isn't effective...

    H20 got hurt... and Mal was our most talented substitute... we didn't have a team that could survive with Caroll or Barnes at the 2... Mal's talents were supposed to be honed with H20's mentoring... but that didn't happen and here were are almost 4 years later with Craw stagnant... his signing was similar to the JJ13 (but far better from a basketball perspective) in that way... he filled a desperate need we had... but things didn't pan out the way we expected them to...

    i think we're overlooking the key elements Craw brings to the table in our rush to ship him out... I would only trade him away if we got an offensive facilitator (Brevin Knight) and a relyable scorer (think Steve Kerr, John Paxson type)... since Mal is good at both but not good enough to make a differnce... otherwise... I say keep him since he has the best chemisty with Curry on the team (for real... even Eddy's demeanor changed after Mal was hurt) and he is the most willing to take the game winning shot...

    and everyone clamoring for stevenson... did you see how brightly he shined in the playoffs? i thought so...

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    Originally Posted by ShairanXIII
    ummmmmm... let's remember the squad we had when we signed Mal...

    SG
    Penny Hardaway, Allan Houston, Jamal Crawford, Jermaine Jackson

    PG
    Stephon Marbury

    PF
    Maurice Taylor, Malik Rose, JYD, Butler, Sweetney

    SF
    Tim Thomas, Ariza

    C
    Bruno Sundov, K. Thomas
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    remember, we got Mal to be H20's back up yall... think about it as a GM... H20 is 33... recovering from knee surgery and prolly retiring soon... this kid in Chi just had a monster year and you've been following him for a few years now... perfect scenario is the kid learns the art of the SG from H20 and becomes his replacement when he isn't effective...

    H20 got hurt... and Mal was our most talented substitute... we didn't have a team that could survive with Caroll or Barnes at the 2... Mal's talents were supposed to be honed with H20's mentoring... but that didn't happen and here were are almost 4 years later with Craw stagnant... his signing was similar to the JJ13 (but far better from a basketball perspective) in that way... he filled a desperate need we had... but things didn't pan out the way we expected them to...

    i think we're overlooking the key elements Craw brings to the table in our rush to ship him out... I would only trade him away if we got an offensive facilitator (Brevin Knight) and a relyable scorer (think Steve Kerr, John Paxson type)... since Mal is good at both but not good enough to make a differnce... otherwise... I say keep him since he has the best chemisty with Curry on the team (for real... even Eddy's demeanor changed after Mal was hurt) and he is the most willing to take the game winning shot...

    and everyone clamoring for stevenson... did you see how brightly he shined in the playoffs? i thought so...

    So? It was one series. If we're gonna judge players on one series, lets all glorify Jerome James and his well deserved contract.

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    I like Jamal. He is the type of guard you need in the today's NBA because has the skills to play either the 1 or the 2 when needed. He is not a pure shooter but how many pure shooters are out there anymore. He more than makes up for his streak shooting with his ability to slash and score in the paint. Jamal is probably the most complete player on the team and I think he still has potential to get better. Remember he played very little college ball before he went pro. Really liked him here in Chicago and was really glad we picked him up. Definately a keeper in my book.

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    Originally Posted by jimkcchief88
    I like Jamal. He is the type of guard you need in the today's NBA because has the skills to play either the 1 or the 2 when needed. He is not a pure shooter but how many pure shooters are out there anymore. He more than makes up for his streak shooting with his ability to slash and score in the paint. Jamal is probably the most complete player on the team and I think he still has potential to get better. Remember he played very little college ball before he went pro. Really liked him here in Chicago and was really glad we picked him up. Definately a keeper in my book.


    Alot pure shooters in the NBA. From Miller, Allen, Dirk, Nash, Redd, Bibby, Kapano, Peja, Raja, Lewis, Brent Barry, Barbosa, Krover, etc. I would even put guys like Kobe and Arenas on there, they can hit from anywhere in the court, the only problem is their shot selection. What seperates them from Jamal is their superior ability and talent, and slashing and driving to the paint, something Crawford rarely does.

    The problem is, Crawford doesn't slash or score in the paint.

    Crawford is the most one dimensional player on this team, I laughed when you said he's the most complete player for the New York Knicks.

    Crawford is a NBA veteran already, no more potential talk. Yes he can get better, but he was an over hyped player.

    This is the same guy who said Marbury isn't even worthy to be on the Knicks, but "Jamal" is a keeper, lmao.
    Last edited by metrocard; Jul 23, 2007 at 06:23.

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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Alot pure shooters in the NBA. From Miller, Allen, Dirk, Nash, Redd, Bibby, Kapano, Peja, Raja, Lewis, Brent Barry, Barbosa, Krover, etc. I would even put guys like Kobe and Arenas on there, they can hit from anywhere in the court, the only problem is their shot selection. What seperates them from Jamal is their superior ability and talent, and slashing and driving to the paint, something Crawford rarely does.

    The problem is, Crawford doesn't slash or score in the paint.

    Crawford is the most one dimensional player on this team, I laughed when you said he's the most complete player for the New York Knicks.

    Crawford is a NBA veteran already, no more potential talk. Yes he can get better, but he was an over hyped player.

    This is the same guy who said Marbury isn't even worthy to be on the Knicks, but "Jamal" is a keeper, lmao.
    Most of the guys on your list are not "pure" shooters. Remember a "pure"shooter most times is a "specialist" brought in for must have baskets and breaking down packed in defenses. Just because you can hit baskets from anywhere sometimes does not make you a pure shooter. MJ wasn't even a pure shooter. The Miller on your list must be Reggie Miller because Mike Miller is a streak shooter, not a pure shooter. Kobe is far from a pure shooter and I wouldn't even put Gilbert on that list though he is close. Pure shooters are guys like Nate McMillen, Kerr, Pax, Craig Hodges and the like. Most pure shooters cannot get their own shot, but are deadly when left open. The guys that can do both are the most deadly legends like Bird and Reggie Miller. I would put Allen Houston in that catagory also except for body of work. I like Jamal because he has old school game. If you leave him open he will hurt you, if you run at him its blow by and then stop and pop( midrange game). He can also finish around the basket which is a deadly combo. You guys forget that today's "veteran players" are yesterday's college juniors and seniors. While I am not against early entry into the league, the guys who do need more time to progress because most NBA coaches coach not teach. They assume your toolbox is already full. Since Jamal has had so many injury problems the word potential still applies. I would hate to see him realize that in another team's uni. Marbury on the other hand is a known quantity, we all know what he can do(score and dish) and what he can't do(make guys around him better and lead a team to quality playoff wins).

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    Originally Posted by jimkcchief88
    Marbury on the other hand is a known quantity, we all know what he can do(score and dish) and what he can't do(make guys around him better and lead a team to quality playoff wins).

    Someone really needs to clarify make others better. Becuase no matter how gifted a player is, if the others around him suck, his team, will in turn suck.

    Steve Nash gets those assist based on the system being based around him, and the players around him FINISH what he starts. If they sucked, so would his numbers.

    The fact that Steph has the career avg in points and assist that he does while not playing significant time with a player on his level speaks volumes about his ability as a player.

    Kidd Played with Mash and Jackson along with himself a few years. In NJ the east was so weak it was tailor made for the success they had with those horses he ran with. And now he has Vince and Jefferson, along with other solid players.

    The one year Steph had players on his level per say, they won 53 games in the west. Then the next year Stoudamire gets hurt.

    Then he gets traded to NY and he again is the only good player on the team due to Al's injury. So again, his whole career he has been the best player on his team by far. Kidd, Nash, Billups, Parker all those guys have had equal, or better talent around them while they were winning those years.

    That is why this is the year Steph must show up. Because the talent around him NOW is more than capable of performing to his level. NOW HE WILL NOT GET A PASS. He has a center, pf and gaurds galore to finish what he starts. No reason to think he should not be close to or at double digit assist for the season.

    I for one am a Steph fan, and I hope... Lemme say I EXPECT him to avg no less than 10 assist a game, 3.5-4 boards and game and about 11-14 ppg. No reason he should not coming off his most unselfish season, and what he has around him. And the Knicks better make the playoffs. And not just make em, make noise in em with this team. No excuses.

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    Superstar jzero29's Avatar
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    Nyk Logo Ugh! where do you guys come from?

    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Again, I wonder which Knicks team you watched last year. Did Curry's numbers go up when Jamal went down? No, he did less, and teams made others do more. I wonder why? Maybe becuase they actually RESPECT Jamal's ability from the outside even though he can at times be streaky. So again, tell me the need to get a one trick pony like Matt Carrol who can do nothing when a defender gets on him? Same for Barnes? That is why they don't get the huge money, because they can't defend, or put the ball on the floor. So that means they NEED to have other players around them to succeed at what they do best. Right now, on this Knicks team right now, Matt Carrol would STILL BE CRAWFORD'S BACKUP. TODAY. They press steph, who are you passing too? Carrol? They put Bowen on Carrol, is he scoring? Maybe if they double Eddie with Bowen. If not... Carrol gives you nothing. Can't go to the rim, no athleticism. Jump-shooter. Glorified Steve Kerr... IF THAT.
    But I think you are overrating the need, especially on this team to have a great one.
    They have enough solid shooters to space the floor for Curry. When those solid shooters went down ( Q, Crawford, Nate for a bit ) All the sudden so did our scoring and effectiveness on offense. So that tells me despite how you feel personally about the SG on the team, the LEAGUE feels differently because they, unlike you respected the shooters we had. Enough to less frequently double a man in the middle no one can gaurd one on one.
    Far as triple teams are concerned, with no illegal defense and no perimeter threats, they certainly did triple Curry.
    Your ridiculous, first who said carrol is one trick, he's in NBA, He got there for reason. Defnese to name one other trick. Second it they'd never have Bowen on carrol, he'd be on steph. You put your best player on your best opponent, thats why he's have the open shot. Besides Put Bowen on Labron James and he struggles(see NBA finals)? Whats your point? I conceed, Carrol isn't as good as labron james or Kobe. Not even close, but bowen is a top of the line defender, not many guys light up Bowen.. Besides Guys like steph, curry and now randolph can draw double teams and best defenders. So Carrol a spot up shooter will be open with good ball movement. Something I saw the Knicks get beat by two many times this past year. Guys like Carool scoreing 23 points against them(1/12/07), shooting wide open 3's and deep 2's, grabbing 6 rebounds 4 assists against your boy Crawford. And playing decent d, holding jamaal to 13pts 4-13 shooting. Same game derek anderson hit 6 of 8 3pointers, because yours truely was running around with his head up his ... Chasing what a truly spread defense looks like. How many times have we been out performed by these role playing "one trick pony" shooting guards! How many games do you remember watching Knicks Huge Lead shrink, when the other team starts hitting 3 pointers! How many games where the knicks couldn't answer with a 3? and the game starts slipping away as the other team is killing knicks with 3's getting back into the game, or remaining just out of reach. Thats what we need that steady deep threat. the guy that gets left open and knocks it down.
    I'm not saying he never had 3 defenders on him. I'm Just saying he wasn't triple teamed as a game plan. You plan two double team a player. very rarely do you triple team, unless it's a mix up or important part of game. Even jerome james would get tripled I if the games tied and he has ball in the paint? Defenses tend to throw the kitchen sink at players in the paint whenthe games on the line.

    Originally Posted by ShairanXIII
    H20 got hurt... and Mal was our most talented substitute... we didn't have a team that could survive with Caroll or Barnes at the 2... Mal's talents were supposed to be honed with H20's mentoring... but that didn't happen and here were are almost 4 years later with Craw stagnant... his signing was similar to the JJ13 (but far better from a basketball perspective) in that way... he filled a desperate need we had... but things didn't pan out the way we expected them to...

    i think we're overlooking the key elements Craw brings to the table in our rush to ship him out... I would only trade him away if we got an offensive facilitator (Brevin Knight) and a relyable scorer (think Steve Kerr, John Paxson type)... since Mal is good at both but not good enough to make a differnce... otherwise... I say keep him since he has the best chemisty with Curry on the team (for real... even Eddy's demeanor changed after Mal was hurt) and he is the most willing to take the game winning shot...
    ShairanXIII, you say our team couldn't survive Matt carrol/Barnes at sg? So how they have played last couple years is your Idea of surviving? Interesting. At least now I know the intelegence of the person who's replying. It would be tough not having so much salary over the cap, what would they do if they weren't paying extra for the lux tax! That may have been the only difference in out come over the past couple years. Luxary tax. Because they haven't wwon much. The one season that was okay was the playoff season, and that was a very weak showing by the east all around.
    I think you over look the elements Crawford brings to the game. He has high turnovers,(last year career High 2.75TO per game. So much for making good decisions.) Takes a lot of shots away from other players on our team. Sure he's not afraid to take the tough shot, at end of game, with two or three guys on him, No he doesn't really pass when he should. All year he had Q, nate and steph(and fransis) out there. None of them are scared of the big shot. A regular shooting guard can bring every thing crawfish does. A point I make in this post is how on defense the knicks got beat by the three. No Name shooters, going for career highs against knicks. The league loves the three. We need an answer for that. We need to beable to crush a ralley with a dagger 3, or finish a ralley with a deadly 3. With a little more consistency.
    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Again, I wonder which Knicks team you watched last year. Did Curry's numbers go up when Jamal went down? No, he did less, and teams made others do more. I wonder why? Maybe becuase they actually RESPECT Jamal's ability from the outside even though he can at times be streaky. The fact that he is so streaky garners respect as if he was NOT streaky. The sheer fact he can score 20 in a quarter before you know it scares teams enough to stretch the defense. No one is leaving him wide open. When does that happen? So again, tell me the need to get a one trick pony like Matt Carrol who can do nothing when a defender gets on him? Same for Barnes? That is why they don't get the huge money, because they can't defend, or put the ball on the floor. So that means they NEED to have other players around them to succeed at what they do best. Right now, on this Knicks team right now, Matt Carrol would STILL BE CRAWFORD'S BACKUP. TODAY. They press steph, who are you passing too? Carrol? They put Bowen on Carrol, is he scoring? Maybe if they double Eddie with Bowen. If not... Carrol gives you nothing. Can't go to the rim, no athleticism. Jump-shooter. Glorified Steve Kerr... IF THAT.
    The Cavs just got to the finals with a broken down Hughes and someone named Boobie along with Lebron. Who can REALLY shoot out of those 3? Now no one is underating having a great shooter at the 2... But I think you are overrating the need, especially on this team to have a great one.

    They have enough solid shooters to space the floor for Curry. When those solid shooters went down ( Q, Crawford, Nate for a bit ) All the sudden so did our scoring and effectiveness on offense. So that tells me despite how you feel personally about the SG on the team, the LEAGUE feels differently because they, unlike you respected the shooters we had. Enough to less frequently double a man in the middle no one can gaurd one on one.

    Far as triple teams are concerned, with no illegal defense and no perimeter threats, they certainly did triple Curry.

    Vs Orlando late in the season, I believe we lost by a point late, they freuqently had Battie in front, Dwight in back, and whoever the gaurd was opposite Steph, that player lagged off to make the entry pass tough. Basically daring Balkman, Collins, Rose, Hurt Francis or the like to shoot a long J. Battie, Howard and a g or forward... Yea... that's 3 people on one. Go back and watch some late tapes and see how they shaded their defenses the last 10 games or so to have two on Curry even without the ball, and bring the third defender down.
    And I was at a lot of these games, so I seen the angles the tv don't show...
    Mat carrol can play D. So can barnes.
    The cavs, so they don't have damon jones, the 3 point specialist PG. They have no 3point shooting? James, never takes 3's. Your blind man? They also had david wesly?
    Curry was tired at end of season because he's fat, and the knicks had no shooting guards with Q and Jamaal out. Yeah of course you triple curry in the paint at the end of a game, thats close. You don't want to give up easy basket. But he did not regularly draw triple teams during season, only situational. Heck if nate robison got the ball in the paint with only a couple ticks left and the other team with a 1-2pt lead, theyd triple him? Does that mean he's triple teamed as a team strategy for every game? No it means the situation called for it. Also Curry was double with or without crawford in the game. Any NBA guard can dump the ball into a big man and any NBA guard should be able to catch a pass and be a triple threat.
    Originally Posted by jimkcchief88
    I like Jamal. He is the type of guard you need in the today's NBA because has the skills to play either the 1 or the 2 when needed. He is not a pure shooter but how many pure shooters are out there anymore. He more than makes up for his streak shooting with his ability to slash and score in the paint. Jamal is probably the most complete player on the team and I think he still has potential to get better. Remember he played very little college ball before he went pro. Really liked him here in Chicago and was really glad we picked him up. Definately a keeper in my book.
    Why do you need a 2 guard to play point? Whats wrong with point playing point? it's not that jamaal isn't a pure shooter(he's not) It's that he's not a good shooter. Ranked 126th out of guards in FG% on NBA site. As a pg/Sg he had career year in TO's 2.75 pergame, his personal career best(negative stat for the smart guys out there). only eddy curry avged more on knicks, but at least he's realtively young and still has potential. I would say stick to SG but he ranked 126th in fg% so. looks like he should Stick to the bench.

    Originally Posted by jimkcchief88
    Most of the guys on your list are not "pure" shooters. Remember a "pure"shooter most times is a "specialist" brought in for must have baskets and breaking down packed in defenses. Just because you can hit baskets from anywhere sometimes does not make you a pure shooter. MJ wasn't even a pure shooter. The Miller on your list must be Reggie Miller because Mike Miller is a streak shooter, not a pure shooter. Kobe is far from a pure shooter and I wouldn't even put Gilbert on that list though he is close. Pure shooters are guys like Nate McMillen, Kerr, Pax, Craig Hodges and the like. Most pure shooters cannot get their own shot, but are deadly when left open. The guys that can do both are the most deadly legends like Bird and Reggie Miller. I would put Allen Houston in that catagory also except for body of work. I like Jamal because he has old school game. If you leave him open he will hurt you, if you run at him its blow by and then stop and pop( midrange game). He can also finish around the basket which is a deadly combo. You guys forget that today's "veteran players" are yesterday's college juniors and seniors. While I am not against early entry into the league, the guys who do need more time to progress because most NBA coaches coach not teach. They assume your toolbox is already full. Since Jamal has had so many injury problems the word potential still applies. I would hate to see him realize that in another team's uni. Marbury on the other hand is a known quantity, we all know what he can do(score and dish) and what he can't do(make guys around him better and lead a team to quality playoff wins).
    jimkeChief? Ray allen isn't a pure shooter? He's got one of the best jump shots in the game? Sure he can cut and slash, even take some guys. Pure shooter doesn't mean you can't do anything else, it just means you can flat out shoot the lights out. Being a pure shooter implies you have a pure shot, it means your form is pure, and you hit shots like the Mob hits rats.Doesn't mean you can't create your own shots. Also some of the best shooters in the league where guys who came off screens(reggie and rip for one) It means don't let that guy shoot from outside uncontested because it's automatic. RIP is a pure shooter, the guys lights out. Houston was a pure shooter but he could take it to the hole. Kyle corver is more of the one dimensional shooter you take about. But he lights up the knicks.

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    The thing that the detractors of Jamal Crawford seem to be missing, is the fact that, whatever his limitations are or presumed to be I should say, he still makes the team better. In the end that is what counts. So yea, there are other 2's which are better than Crawford, but when I hear names like Barnes, Carrol, Korver and the like, compared to Craw, that is just ridiculous. Those guys are not better than Crawford whatsoever. Yes he takes bad shots at times, but so do a lot of Shooting Guards, they are suppose to SHOOT! ..

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    Jzero, no way in hell you convincing anyone with half a brain Matt Carrol plays defense. I guess it's not possible for him to have a good day and Jamal have a bad day? Secondly, for as good as you say he is, he fg is only 3 points higher than Jamals and JC shoots a lot more.

    Who says, I wonder if so and so will score on Matt Carrol today? Or Barnes? These guys don't play d. But unlike Jamal Carrol can afford his guy to get by him because Okefor DOES play d. That is the real problem with the Knicks defense is no intimidation up front. And that more than anything needs to change. How many times did a big set a pick and Curry not play help d when the gaurd flashed to the paint or was open from 3? Or how many times did a big set a pick and Curry watch that same little gaurd lay him up? It's not all on the gaurds. I seen many times Steph has his man and here comes a pick and now his man is wide open and scores. Plenty. Not saying JC is Artest, but a lot of times the gaurds took the blame for the Bigs being unaware. Curry, Frye and Lee are all stupid off picks. If you dont help these gaurds will score.

    Carrol is so good on both ends, they gave him money to stay, and then made him a bench warmer by trading for Richardson. How bout that.

    And again far as triple teams go. TEAMS... not one, but ALL them teams knew no one could shoot from the perimeter save Steph and Nate. Collins, Balkman Malik, these guys were in the game same time

    So once Steph aint have the rock, it was hit or miss from everyone else perimeter wise. That is why they never even paid those other guys much attention. Lived with whatever they hit from deep but would not let Curry beat them. Over and over and over and over down the stretch teams would start by Fronting Curry, The gaurd with the ball, his man would basically dare him to shoot, and then on the pass, here comes the other big on Curry. Constantly when the play was called for him. Many teams did this. And why would that not be the game plan? NO ONE ON THE TEAM CAN SHOOT LOL!!!! Make them beat you!

    I dont know... If I was a coach that would be in my game plan.

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    Originally Posted by lilman_bklyn
    The thing that the detractors of Jamal Crawford seem to be missing, is the fact that, whatever his limitations are or presumed to be I should say, he still makes the team better. In the end that is what counts. So yea, there are other 2's which are better than Crawford, but when I hear names like Barnes, Carrol, Korver and the like, compared to Craw, that is just ridiculous. Those guys are not better than Crawford whatsoever. Yes he takes bad shots at times, but so do a lot of Shooting Guards, they are suppose to SHOOT! ..
    I Thats where your wrong. I think he brings excitment and a little bit of erratic play. Fans seem to love. But Fundamentally the Knicks need a better 3 point shooter. I think him chucking detracts, i think his turnovers detract. Does he get the ball in the big spot, and he makes an exciting play. If it's the game on the line shot, he makes, misses or turnsover. I'd rather live with a drive and dish by steph to a shooting threat outside. Thats a big problem on the knicks. Steph drive kicks it out to a wide open jamaal, instead of taking the smart shot , he then drives to a crowded hoop because steph and his man jsut went in there. Then He''ll shoot in a crowd at the end of the game instead of passing to anyone but curry.
    I know Guards are suppose to shoot! but they are suppose to do it well!!!
    Key stat he ranked in the bottom of FG% and in the bottom of 3pt FG%. He only avged 17ppg, due to his number of attempts. Before he got hurt the only person on the team who had more shots then him was curry. I'd much rather see Q shooting or Marbury. other SG who take that many shots, avg like 20ppg. Because they hit more shots! Because their FG% is way better.

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