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Thread: Knicks roster evaluation, any complete players?

  1. #16
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    Originally Posted by jzero29
    The fact remains that only one of either, crawford or marbury, who can prosper in isiahs system, They both need the ball to play to there potential, and steph can avg over 20, with crazy assists. Much like his phoenix years. crawford, will never be as good as steph. He's decent player, but not in the role he played last year, he dominates the ball and keeps it out of the knicks best all around guard hands. It's pointless to have both these players on same team. unless one is coming off the bench. I thinkwith Curry establishing himself, and the addition of randolph, if we cut steph lose and let him play like he did with phoenix, let steph be steph and be the man. I think they could have similar success as the marbury run phoenix. A dangerous competitive team, that makes playoffs. Unfortunately, with crawford on board, and isiah running the offense through crawford, marbury can't display the talents he is KNOWN to have. Instead all the clueless knick fans want Crawford to show the Talent people BELIEVE he has. People just want to believe crawford is awesome because he's a knick. He's not.Every one is waiting for crawford to reach his POTENTIAL, instead of letting Marbury play at the level he's capable of. Crawford's okay, but he totaly takes the ball out of stephs hands and makes steph, less involved and less valuable. Steph can get the ball to curry, give him a chance, maybe he didn't buy into the curry thing, but after curry established himself, You know he's in.
    The idea of creating a team and obtaining players, you have an idea and get guys who fit together. Crawford plays marburys role, ditch crawford and set marbury free!!! Put crawford in a role like ginoblli's. Bench player. or he can start as long as he can play without the ball. Or ball as 4th option. He had, third most attempts on offense, and he would have easily been #2 if he didn't play 15 games less than marbury(who had only 60 more than jamaal) If jamaal had shot his avg 15 attempts per game, for 15 games, thats 225, he would have shot 165 times more than steph. Not to mention, in those 15 games he would have taken some shots away from steph. so we're talking over 165 more than steph, the all around superior guard. This year crawfor cannot be the second option again, he's at least 4th. behind curry/randolph/marbury then crawford.
    I co-sighn this....I think we have beaten this horse dead twice though! I think we can all agree that Jamal is a good player in this league, but he is not player that you should count on running your offense through he's just too damn inconsitstent, I mean you can't even call him streaky, beacuse streak shooters are only off with their shot when they are having a bad night, but still rebound defend and make smart plays (Q Rich for example) but with Jamal it's like watching either an NBA All Star or a player who should be in the D League, and frankly I haven't seen any sighn of him playing any type of cosistient basketball as a knick. For the last time Jamal is good, but is a better fit for a wide open run and gun offense, not a team that likes to pound it into the post. I also think he would be a great fit for Phil's triangle, or Pheonix's run and gun. But I also think he would be a great sixth man for us, I think he would provide that same off the bench for the back court that Lee and Balk bring to the front court. I think if we land Artest, than for sure Q should be starting with Steph in the backcourt with Ron at the 3. But look I'm just a fickle fan so what do I know

  2. #17
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    When you don't have to do offense-defense substitutions in the last few minutes of a close game then you have a team of complete players which makes you not only a complete team but a formidable one as well. For a player to be part of such a team you have to put the effort and concentration on both ends of the floor so that you can stay on the floor at any situation and at any time of the game. Then and only then can you be considered a complete player.

  3. #18
    is the Bo$$ Toons's Avatar
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    Jzero, if u watched a lot of knick basketball last season and the season before that, marbury held the ball for the first 12 seconds of the shot clock, passed it inside, curry got doubled, pass back to marbury, 5 seconds left, steph passes to crawford.....i think thats how crawford learned to be so clutch, he hardly has time to operate or look for an open man ...so he chucks sumtimes....sometimes he gets off a good shot

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    Originally Posted by Toons
    Jzero, if u watched a lot of knick basketball last season and the season before that, marbury held the ball for the first 12 seconds of the shot clock, passed it inside, curry got doubled, pass back to marbury, 5 seconds left, steph passes to crawford.....i think thats how crawford learned to be so clutch, he hardly has time to operate or look for an open man ...so he chucks sumtimes....sometimes he gets off a good shot
    dats wat im saying, his numbers dont represent his game, his FG% is a little down because he is forced to take the shot when the shot clock is at one and one the game clock is is running down and jamal is in the under side of the court, jamal will shoot, not like ya favorite players who worry about there FG% so they would stumble or fumble the basketball

  5. #20
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    I've heard all I can stand and I can stands no more.

    Allan Houston was not a New York Knick. He had a jumper...wow. That's it...the man could NOT play DEFENSE AT ALL. Please show me a tape where you see him locking someone down on the defensive end. He never went to the hole, he was one of the softest players we ever had in the history of this franchise. I can sum up all of Allan's Houston's career in ONE MOMENT..and we all know what that moment was back in Miami. That's the only thing he really has to his credit...he made the All Star team what once...maybe twice. The most overpaid, under-talented player to ever make 20 million per season, there's another fact for ya.

    If the Knicks ever decide to retire his #20 at the Garden..I'm going to stop becoming a KNICKS fan immediately. As much as I hate John Starks for his infamous 2-18...I'd rather see his number #3, retired at least he gave us far more memorable moments..and played with something Houston rarely ever showed heart and hustle on both ends of the court.

    Patrick Ewing was always appreciated..the problem with Patrick came down to Patrick not wanting to become a role player for us at the end of his career. That's why he was traded out...I understand Patrick's logic at the time..all he had done for us...how dare you give a Captain and Waiter's job..I get that..but his best days of 20/10 were behind him...and we would've been better off letting him come off the bench or even start but take a more limited role in the offense..kind of like David Robinson did when Duncan arrived...problem was just could never find a Duncan of our own. Closet thing we had was Camby...

    Sprewell was/always will be a better player than Allan Houston ever was...Sprewell was more of a KNICK in less time the Allan was...Spree was a threat from anywhere..Houston you knew he wasn't going to the hole...they used to just put a body on him...knowing he's only going to do two dribbles then shoot..that was Allan...and he got exposed more than enough times.

  6. #21
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    jamal is an elite scorer, if you need proof watch his 52-point game vs. heat... even tmac gave him props for that game... as far as d, he could be a good defender but he has the tendency to get outmuscled or loose patience and concentration then he gambles and goes for the steal and screws the team defensive formation... he's definitely quick enough to defend anybody in his position he just needs to work on his strength, patience, and concentration on the d...he's definitely one of our team's main pieces though... ask anybody in the team... he's our gunner.

  7. #22
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    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    I've heard all I can stand and I can stands no more.

    Allan Houston was not a New York Knick. He had a jumper...wow. That's it...the man could NOT play DEFENSE AT ALL. Please show me a tape where you see him locking someone down on the defensive end. He never went to the hole, he was one of the softest players we ever had in the history of this franchise. I can sum up all of Allan's Houston's career in ONE MOMENT..and we all know what that moment was back in Miami. That's the only thing he really has to his credit...he made the All Star team what once...maybe twice. The most overpaid, under-talented player to ever make 20 million per season, there's another fact for ya.

    If the Knicks ever decide to retire his #20 at the Garden..I'm going to stop becoming a KNICKS fan immediately. As much as I hate John Starks for his infamous 2-18...I'd rather see his number #3, retired at least he gave us far more memorable moments..and played with something Houston rarely ever showed heart and hustle on both ends of the court.

    Patrick Ewing was always appreciated..the problem with Patrick came down to Patrick not wanting to become a role player for us at the end of his career. That's why he was traded out...I understand Patrick's logic at the time..all he had done for us...how dare you give a Captain and Waiter's job..I get that..but his best days of 20/10 were behind him...and we would've been better off letting him come off the bench or even start but take a more limited role in the offense..kind of like David Robinson did when Duncan arrived...problem was just could never find a Duncan of our own. Closet thing we had was Camby...

    Sprewell was/always will be a better player than Allan Houston ever was...Sprewell was more of a KNICK in less time the Allan was...Spree was a threat from anywhere..Houston you knew he wasn't going to the hole...they used to just put a body on him...knowing he's only going to do two dribbles then shoot..that was Allan...and he got exposed more than enough times.
    did your girl leave you for an allan houston look-alike?

  8. #23
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    Originally Posted by highesthigh
    did your girl leave you for an allan houston look-alike?
    If she did, then our daughter is not mine..and that bastard owes me some back child support.

    But I just really don't like Allan Houston as a player..never impressed me...as a person seems alright.

  9. #24
    Superstar ShairanXIII's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    I've heard all I can stand and I can stands no more.

    Allan Houston was not a New York Knick. He had a jumper...wow. That's it...the man could NOT play DEFENSE AT ALL. Please show me a tape where you see him locking someone down on the defensive end. He never went to the hole, he was one of the softest players we ever had in the history of this franchise. I can sum up all of Allan's Houston's career in ONE MOMENT..and we all know what that moment was back in Miami. That's the only thing he really has to his credit...he made the All Star team what once...maybe twice. The most overpaid, under-talented player to ever make 20 million per season, there's another fact for ya.

    If the Knicks ever decide to retire his #20 at the Garden..I'm going to stop becoming a KNICKS fan immediately. As much as I hate John Starks for his infamous 2-18...I'd rather see his number #3, retired at least he gave us far more memorable moments..and played with something Houston rarely ever showed heart and hustle on both ends of the court.

    Patrick Ewing was always appreciated..the problem with Patrick came down to Patrick not wanting to become a role player for us at the end of his career. That's why he was traded out...I understand Patrick's logic at the time..all he had done for us...how dare you give a Captain and Waiter's job..I get that..but his best days of 20/10 were behind him...and we would've been better off letting him come off the bench or even start but take a more limited role in the offense..kind of like David Robinson did when Duncan arrived...problem was just could never find a Duncan of our own. Closet thing we had was Camby...

    Sprewell was/always will be a better player than Allan Houston ever was...Sprewell was more of a KNICK in less time the Allan was...Spree was a threat from anywhere..Houston you knew he wasn't going to the hole...they used to just put a body on him...knowing he's only going to do two dribbles then shoot..that was Allan...and he got exposed more than enough times.
    chuuch... a lot of fans on this site will give you **** for attacking their heroes though... watch out...

    <b>J-Zero</b>... you absolutely right about Jamal... for now...

  10. #25
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    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    I've heard all I can stand and I can stands no more.

    Allan Houston was not a New York Knick. He had a jumper...wow. That's it...the man could NOT play DEFENSE AT ALL. Please show me a tape where you see him locking someone down on the defensive end. He never went to the hole, he was one of the softest players we ever had in the history of this franchise. I can sum up all of Allan's Houston's career in ONE MOMENT..and we all know what that moment was back in Miami. That's the only thing he really has to his credit...he made the All Star team what once...maybe twice. The most overpaid, under-talented player to ever make 20 million per season, there's another fact for ya.

    If the Knicks ever decide to retire his #20 at the Garden..I'm going to stop becoming a KNICKS fan immediately. As much as I hate John Starks for his infamous 2-18...I'd rather see his number #3, retired at least he gave us far more memorable moments..and played with something Houston rarely ever showed heart and hustle on both ends of the court.

    Patrick Ewing was always appreciated..the problem with Patrick came down to Patrick not wanting to become a role player for us at the end of his career. That's why he was traded out...I understand Patrick's logic at the time..all he had done for us...how dare you give a Captain and Waiter's job..I get that..but his best days of 20/10 were behind him...and we would've been better off letting him come off the bench or even start but take a more limited role in the offense..kind of like David Robinson did when Duncan arrived...problem was just could never find a Duncan of our own. Closet thing we had was Camby...

    Sprewell was/always will be a better player than Allan Houston ever was...Sprewell was more of a KNICK in less time the Allan was...Spree was a threat from anywhere..Houston you knew he wasn't going to the hole...they used to just put a body on him...knowing he's only going to do two dribbles then shoot..that was Allan...and he got exposed more than enough times.

    Well he did play here, so like it or not he was a Knick. And also, like it or not we don't get to the finals without him even if Sprewell was here. Needed them both. And secondly, no one ever said Sprewell was not the better overall player of the two. Simply that it's easy to forget how crucial Allan was to those teams based on the type of player he was. He aint have half the ability Sprewell had, but he was every bit as important. Says something. And I remember Sprewell almost letting the season end in Miami with what coulda been a turnover outta bounds. I also remember Allan saving the season and Latrells Behind a few seconds later. I also remember Allan killing the Pacers. Putting the Knicks on his back to get us to the finals. Don't have to like his game, but do not undermind his importance.

    Also, I don't know why his salary comes into play. All of these athletes are grossly overpaid. All of them. The way of life. Also, we just traded away a more under talented player making his kind of money in Francis.

    And I don't understand what this " more of a Knick " thing means. What is that? Knicks have not won a championship in my lifetime, and maybe even yours. How can they have some sorta identity? If anything, win one first before saying someone is or is not a Knick. Be more Like Starks? We did not win with him? More like Oakely, the bum? Mason? Who? Where did these guys get us? These so called " Knicks "? Oh... same place No heart, no game having Allan Houston got us once... I see. I need help with that " More of a Knick " thing.

    As far as what he'll do. Two dribbles and that's it. Hmm... everyone knew that, and they still could not stop him ( Is Latrell ever scoring 55 on Kobe in LA with just two dribbles and a J? NOT! ) So I hear all that you're saying, but for him to have just a marginal game, he suuuuuuuure seemed to give a lot of dudes headaches when it shoulda been a night off. I mean, how tough can it be to gaurd a man who dribbles twice and shoots and never goes to the hole? LOL!!!!!!

    Pat was always unapreciated. Still is. Look around, ask around. Heck, most don't even say he is the best Knick of all time. Not because he is not, but because he did not win it. I always thought you needed help to win. I mean... who wins without at least one other HOF? Even MJ had another HOF. Who played with Pat that is going to the HOF? No one. And that is why Pat never won a ring.

  11. #26
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    Nyk Logo Truth be told.

    Originally Posted by highesthigh
    did your girl leave you for an allan houston look-alike?
    Seriously, allan houston, was a great shooter, no one said he was NBA all defense, Side note, he did drive here and there, not as much as he should have, but he was more than capable. One of myfavorite knicks, i have ever had pleasure to watch. Just because he didn't make a spectacle out of himself doesn't mean he didn't play with heart.
    Originally Posted by ShairanXIII
    chuuch... a lot of fans on this site will give you **** for attacking their heroes though... watch out...

    J-Zero... you absolutely right about Jamal... for now...
    Finally someone agrees about jamaal!
    Originally Posted by Isiah's Advocate 33
    I co-sighn this....I think we have beaten this horse dead twice though! I think we can all agree that Jamal is a good player in this league, but he is not player that you should count on running your offense through he's just too damn inconsitstent, I mean you can't even call him streaky, beacuse streak shooters are only off with their shot when they are having a bad night, but still rebound defend and make smart plays (Q Rich for example) but with Jamal it's like watching either an NBA All Star or a player who should be in the D League, and frankly I haven't seen any sighn of him playing any type of cosistient basketball as a knick.
    Again, thank you for seeing my point.
    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Well he did play here, so like it or not he was a Knick. And also, like it or not we don't get to the finals without him even if Sprewell was here. Needed them both. And secondly, no one ever said Sprewell was not the better overall player of the two. Simply that it's easy to forget how crucial Allan was to those teams based on the type of player he was. He aint have half the ability Sprewell had, but he was every bit as important. Says something. And I remember Sprewell almost letting the season end in Miami with what coulda been a turnover outta bounds. I also remember Allan saving the season and Latrells Behind a few seconds later. I also remember Allan killing the Pacers. Putting the Knicks on his back to get us to the finals. Don't have to like his game, but do not undermind his importance.

    Also, I don't know why his salary comes into play. All of these athletes are grossly overpaid. All of them. The way of life. Also, we just traded away a more under talented player making his kind of money in Francis.

    And I don't understand what this " more of a Knick " thing means. What is that? Knicks have not won a championship in my lifetime, and maybe even yours. How can they have some sorta identity? If anything, win one first before saying someone is or is not a Knick. Be more Like Starks? We did not win with him? More like Oakely, the bum? Mason? Who? Where did these guys get us? These so called " Knicks "? Oh... same place No heart, no game having Allan Houston got us once... I see. I need help with that " More of a Knick " thing.

    As far as what he'll do. Two dribbles and that's it. Hmm... everyone knew that, and they still could not stop him ( Is Latrell ever scoring 55 on Kobe in LA with just two dribbles and a J? NOT! ) So I hear all that you're saying, but for him to have just a marginal game, he suuuuuuuure seemed to give a lot of dudes headaches when it shoulda been a night off. I mean, how tough can it be to gaurd a man who dribbles twice and shoots and never goes to the hole? LOL!!!!!!

    Pat was always unapreciated. Still is. Look around, ask around. Heck, most don't even say he is the best Knick of all time. Not because he is not, but because he did not win it. I always thought you needed help to win. I mean... who wins without at least one other HOF? Even MJ had another HOF. Who played with Pat that is going to the HOF? No one. And that is why Pat never won a ring.
    Ewing and Houston are my two favorites. Ewing was a one man team, bringing the knicks to the brink of a championship, pretty much without another consistent star caliber player. Starks much like what isiahs advocate say about crawford, was like watching a NBA all-star one minute and the next game it was watching a D-leaguer. Houston was automatic, another thing about this 2 dribble game, as a defender, you couldn't leave him to help out, because if that ball made it's way to him, you'd pay. You just couldn't leave houston alone. He was an immense help to the inside game, played the perimeter, kept defenses honest. Houston and ewing, both, did more carrying for the knicks than many give credit for, Yes houston was overpaid and ewing didn't want to be role player, but they were the best when they were here. Everyone used to say houston was soft, his Defense maybe, but I can remember him playing on bad ankles manytimes, then he got hurt, once!! and started missing games, came back and wasn't the same, missed more time, and eventually had to retire from these injuries everyone said he was soft, what about all the one prior he played through!!! This was obviously a legit injury he was forced to retire! Houston and ewing were each the MAN!

  12. #27
    Superstar ShairanXIII's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jzero29
    Seriously, allan houston, was a great shooter, no one said he was NBA all defense, Side note, he did drive here and there, not as much as he should have, but he was more than capable. One of myfavorite knicks, i have ever had pleasure to watch. Just because he didn't make a spectacle out of himself doesn't mean he didn't play with heart.

    Finally someone agrees about jamaal!

    Again, thank you for seeing my point.

    Ewing and Houston are my two favorites. Ewing was a one man team, bringing the knicks to the brink of a championship, pretty much without another consistent star caliber player. Starks much like what isiahs advocate say about crawford, was like watching a NBA all-star one minute and the next game it was watching a D-leaguer. Houston was automatic, another thing about this 2 dribble game, as a defender, you couldn't leave him to help out, because if that ball made it's way to him, you'd pay. You just couldn't leave houston alone. He was an immense help to the inside game, played the perimeter, kept defenses honest. Houston and ewing, both, did more carrying for the knicks than many give credit for, Yes houston was overpaid and ewing didn't want to be role player, but they were the best when they were here. Everyone used to say houston was soft, his Defense maybe, but I can remember him playing on bad ankles manytimes, then he got hurt, once!! and started missing games, came back and wasn't the same, missed more time, and eventually had to retire from these injuries everyone said he was soft, what about all the one prior he played through!!! This was obviously a legit injury he was forced to retire! Houston and ewing were each the MAN!
    The infuriating thing about Houston was that he had the skill set to be the best 2 guard in the east after jordan retired... but he was content being above average... i remember when he lit up indy... driving... pull ups... moving off screens... evading his man... then we'd watch him being frustrated by Sean Elliot, Mario Ellie and Avery Johnson the very next series...

    Ewing was a victim of circumstance and his own stubbornness...

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    Originally Posted by ShairanXIII
    The infuriating thing about Houston was that he had the skill set to be the best 2 guard in the east after jordan retired... but he was content being above average... i remember when he lit up indy... driving... pull ups... moving off screens... evading his man... then we'd watch him being frustrated by Sean Elliot, Mario Ellie and Avery Johnson the very next series...

    Ewing was a victim of circumstance and his own stubbornness...
    Houston avg 25 a game in the finals. Problem was no inside game.

    And maybe Ewing was being stubborn. He shoulda went to play with Jordan when he was a FA instead of wasting his life away in NY for fans who never will appreciate him.

  14. #29
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    H20 1999 NBA Finals stats...

    Game 1: 19 pts, 7 - 17, 2 rebs, 3 assists
    Game 2: 19 pts, 9 - 20, 2 rebs, 2 assists
    Game 3: 34 pts, 10 - 24, 3 rebs, 4 assists (LONE KNICK WIN)
    Game 4: 20 pts, 7 - 18, 2 rebs, 3 assists
    Game 5: 16 pts, 8 - 17, 7 rebs, 5 assists

    looks like 21.6 ppg avg to me... did you watch the finals in 99? Yeah... we needed PEw big time for defense and to balance the floor... but if you've got a guy capable of elevating his game to superstar levels... you expect him to lead the team offensively at least... Houston had a skill set similar to Ray Allen... but never utilized it the same way... that's why I say he was an underachiever...

    Ewing was stubborn in that he thought his ideas were best and that he should always be the focus of the offense... regardless of the stage of his career...

    get over your hero lust and realize that just because we like a player... it doesn't mean they didn't make any mistakes... we all do... are you seriously arguing that Ewing and Houston had no flaws? c'mon dude...

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    Originally Posted by ShairanXIII
    H20 1999 NBA Finals stats...

    Game 1: 19 pts, 7 - 17, 2 rebs, 3 assists
    Game 2: 19 pts, 9 - 20, 2 rebs, 2 assists
    Game 3: 34 pts, 10 - 24, 3 rebs, 4 assists (LONE KNICK WIN)
    Game 4: 20 pts, 7 - 18, 2 rebs, 3 assists
    Game 5: 16 pts, 8 - 17, 7 rebs, 5 assists

    looks like 21.6 ppg avg to me... did you watch the finals in 99? Yeah... we needed PEw big time for defense and to balance the floor... but if you've got a guy capable of elevating his game to superstar levels... you expect him to lead the team offensively at least... Houston had a skill set similar to Ray Allen... but never utilized it the same way... that's why I say he was an underachiever...

    Ewing was stubborn in that he thought his ideas were best and that he should always be the focus of the offense... regardless of the stage of his career...

    get over your hero lust and realize that just because we like a player... it doesn't mean they didn't make any mistakes... we all do... are you seriously arguing that Ewing and Houston had no flaws? c'mon dude...

    Allan was never as Good as Ray Allen. He aint have the quickness Ray had to beat his man. He was slow. But he tried.

    He may have been stubborn in those areas as well, but he was old and almost shot by then. That said, without Pat Houston does not even get to take the shot vs Miami. Ewing hobbling on one leg with a torn rib cage still sonning Mourning in a big spot.

    And it is not a hero lust at all. No one said either of them were flawless. I just said they are very unappreciated for what they were as players because everyone wanted more from them though they always gave their best with what they had. And Ewing was stubborn and stupid to play in NY when they never got him adequate help in his prime, and the fans did not fully appreciate him. He shoulda left.

    Ewing plays in that finals Knicks have a great shot to win. They lost not because of Houston, they lost because They had no one for Tim Duncan and Robinson. Everyone fell in love with Camby and the runing game vs Indy, but all that fell apart in the finals when they played real big men and not Rick schmitz and a host of old slow bums.

    Camby was and still is a bum. LJ was overmatched by TD. All these guys everyone wanted Ewing to take a back seat too, that he was better than. Go figure. Heck, I'd be stubborn too.

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    Replies: 28
    Last Post: May 06, 2004, 23:25

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