Do we need ron or kobe?

jzero29

Rotation player
ROn artest already suspended 7 games this season

woah you have a lot to say, lol its cool though.

okay like you, i dont want a guy molesting girls, or shooting people, or fighting fans. that is blatantly wrong and should not be tolerated.

Athletes do have a responsibility to their fans to be the best role model out.

Oakley, Mason, Sprewell, and Ewing all had off their court legal issues, they all had fights on the court, just like Ron they all have had their isssues. and we can also throw in zach randolph, charles barkley, and even dennis rodman into this category.

Yes, Ron does not have all of his screws tightened in his head. he's has his problems. but it seems like Ron artest can't ever do right in this league because of one night in detroit.

just like rodman, just like barkley and like randolph, and the end of the day Ron Artest is worth the risk. just like stephen jackson was worth the risk in golden state and became the reason they beat the mavs in the last game of that series, just like terrell owens was worth the risk and the eagles went to the Super Bowl.
Ron is already suspended 7 games next season. Fights on court with other players, very understandable. Your bumping, pushing catching elbows andcheap shots all game, you flip, that was an issue with all those guys, they didn't take crap, but artest is next level, ewing beat his wife? did he get into fights with ordinary people, not he did his thing on the court, with NBA players. Attacking fans? Beating your wife? no excuse. There is no excuse, even if ron did try to apologize, instead he acts like hes the victim of the media, and gives a sorta sorry apology??? Take some responsability and realize you can't do those things, your an NBA player with millions of children and young adults watching you, and you get paid big money to play a game, It's not much to ask not to beat wife/fans, is it? How long before he adds to his 7 game suspension, do you think it will be a whole season? I don't.
 
Ron is already suspended 7 games next season. Fights on court with other players, very understandable. Your bumping, pushing catching elbows andcheap shots all game, you flip, that was an issue with all those guys, they didn't take crap, but artest is next level, ewing beat his wife? did he get into fights with ordinary people, not he did his thing on the court, with NBA players. Attacking fans? Beating your wife? no excuse. There is no excuse, even if ron did try to apologize, instead he acts like hes the victim of the media, and gives a sorta sorry apology??? Take some responsability and realize you can't do those things, your an NBA player with millions of children and young adults watching you, and you get paid big money to play a game, It's not much to ask not to beat wife/fans, is it? How long before he adds to his 7 game suspension, do you think it will be a whole season? I don't.

Ron hitting his wife is his own personal business. He really does not owe you, me or the media an apology. You hit your wife, you apologizing to her or her and the neighborhood?

Just because you are an athlete does not mean you are not a person. People , all people have personal issues. It's called the real world. Sometimes we fans act like these guys are different from us. But no, they are not. Don't matter which money bracket you're in, you should not beat your wife. Just because he is in the NBA does not make it an EVEN MORE in his case. Wrong is wrong, spotlight, or behind the scenes.

He has to deal with God, himself, his wife, family , legal and Job inquiries on that. That is why he probably gave a half hearted apology to the media who cannot help his situation either way, and often go the other way when it comes to him.

Far as Ron the player... he keeps his nose clean, he would be an awesome fit for the team. If.
 

reuel

Rookie
I am not defending Ron Artest's actions. But you have no right to label him a bad guy. Remember Bill Romanowski? he did more 'bad' things than Artest, and have you heard a big uproar about him? most likely not. how about John Rocker and the fact that he can can go around the country after assaulting verbally virtually every ethnic group in America and get standing ovations, stadium after stadium?

Do you know that there are an equal number of cases of domestic assault among NHL and baseball players as in the NBA and NFL?

so before you criticize one person you have to criticize them all. sports athletes go through the same things that regular people go through, they are no different. so i know if a guy threw a drink in my face I'm fgoing to step to him. maybe thats now how u was brought up but that's what i learned along with many others.

when is the last time you heard of someone getting suspended from their regular job for a domestic dispute?
 

reuel

Rookie
and it was never proven that he beat his wife, Artest pleaded no contest in May to a misdemeanor domestic violence charge stemming from a March 5 dispute with his wife. this could be anything
 

jzero29

Rotation player
i don't disagree about rons talent, or his fit

Ron hitting his wife is his own personal business. He really does not owe you, me or the media an apology. You hit your wife, you apologizing to her or her and the neighborhood?

Just because you are an athlete does not mean you are not a person. People , all people have personal issues. It's called the real world. Sometimes we fans act like these guys are different from us. But no, they are not. Don't matter which money bracket you're in, you should not beat your wife. Just because he is in the NBA does not make it an EVEN MORE in his case. Wrong is wrong, spotlight, or behind the scenes.

He has to deal with God, himself, his wife, family , legal and Job inquiries on that. That is why he probably gave a half hearted apology to the media who cannot help his situation either way, and often go the other way when it comes to him.

Far as Ron the player... he keeps his nose clean, he would be an awesome fit for the team. If.
ROn, is probably a perfect fit, he'd bring that defensive swagger/attitude to that the knicks haven't had since oakly, ewing days. Him along side balkman Q, marbury and lee (depending on the rotation and subs, i know it would be difficult to have all of them out there at once), would be a lot of trouble for offenses across the league. He might even be able to rub off on curry and randolph. You know light a fire under the knicks who don't hustle on defense.
But as you say your self, he keeps his nose clean..if. I'm all in "IF" that happens.
My point wasn't that he gave a crappy apology, it's that you get no sense of remorse from him. With the whole brawl thing, he thought he was right. He didn't see anything wrong with saying, the suspension didn't really change his mind. Most people when they get caught up in the moment and make a mistake, they look back and say, i wish i could have done it different. Ron ron's, not built like that. Remorse for the wrongs in your life, is also a human character,that most people have. He lacks remorse, he lacks the ability to understand, whats wrong and right, whats acceptable and whats not. There is a line someone can cross, he doesn't have a clue about it.
And as far as having the privillage to play a game for money. You don't think he owes it to the people pay him, people who watch him? I would use the cliche do you think he would want his kids to follow his lead? But he doesn't think anythings wrong with being the loose cannon he is. But i know I wouldn't want my children to see me act like that. the fact that i know it's gonna be spread around, because i'm a person in the spotlight. It's a responsibility. I'm not saying other people shouldn't be able to beat their wife. I'm saying everyone is held to this standard, me and you do it,why can't he hold it up? Just because he plays B-Ball he gets a pass? I no way was i saying it is okay for someone to beat there wife, i'm saying it's bad, it makes you a bad person. Fighting, being a thug, is bad, and shouldn't be glorified or rewarded. Why should the NBA and the knicks reward another thug? Bring them into my livingroom, and expose him and all his behavior to kids across america. Is that the image NY wants? A thug/tough guy on the court during the game is welcome, but a person who can't seperate Being tough on court, and being a criminal off it, there is no place for.
My dad was a cop(retired), his life and his career, were held to a higher standard. His personal life. He'd tell me about guys getting assigned to desk duty over disputes with wife, lose their jobs for hitting there wife. DWI's and fights with civilians. fired or suspended a year. Positive drug test, fired. WHy because your in the public eye, and they messed up, you can't do those things and be considered a good person. Why shouldn't he be held to some sort of standard. He should be responsible for the image he portrays to kids growing up watching him. He's in the spotlight, if he likes it or not. Kids grow up and form opinions on life when they see him in the headlines. They see a guy who fights and beats his wife who everyone accepts as a hero, and think this behavior is okay. It's up to the NBA and the NY knicks not to pay trash. Not to make these guys heroes. I don't want artest to be a hero for us. Not unless he can portray a good role model. I'd hate to see him come here and go down the road Michael Vick is now on, suspended indefinetely, maybe going to jail for long part of his playing career. He's a blemish for the NFL and atlanta. Not a role model.
 

reuel

Rookie
I'd hate to see him come here and go down the road Michael Vick is now on, suspended indefinetely, maybe going to jail for long part of his playing career. He's a blemish for the NFL and atlanta. Not a role mode.


why is Michael Vick a blemish on the NFL and Atlanta? for something that he hasn't been proven guilty of? you're being somewhat judgemental
 

jzero29

Rotation player
yes i'm being judgemntal, at least i'm not naive

why is Michael Vick a blemish on the NFL and Atlanta? for something that he hasn't been proven guilty of? you're being somewhat judgemental
One, he's not innocent, they found dog carcasses at his house, he has a dog fighting handler nick name, his "BOYS" all flipped on him. Witnesses are saying they've seen vick shoot, eletricute and hang dogs. Other NFL players have been invited to dog fights, wouldn't be surprised if they also were involved. The point is maybe he hasn't be proven guilty in a court of law, but he did these things and was aware of what was going on. If he isn't guilty then maybe OJ is innocent too.
Just because you don't get convicted doesn't mean your innocent. How many times was Gotti let loose on technicalities...so he wasn't a mob boss? He was legit all those other times? No Gotti and OJ got off, becuase they beat the system. Murderes and rapist, career crimainals beat charges all the time. Heck I beat a parking ticket once, and i was guilty, but the guy wrote the wrong date, and i had proof i wasn't there on that date, i beat the ticket, although i was guilty. Mick vick may beat the charge, doesn't mean he's innocent of the crime. Just being at one dog fight, watching, on his own property, would, mean he's guilty. Say he wasn't there, and he knew what his cousin was doing on VICKS property, he's guilty, but instead, he's got witnesses saying he participated, even worse!!! ...hmmm...I'm being judgmental, yes, but at least i am not hidding my head up my...
Take a stand, be a man make a decision, have an opinion. No i wasn't there, but from what the FBI states about the information obtained from witnesses, you can't say he isn't guilty. Maybe if no one, ratted on him, i'd say you couldn't prove anything, before i heard about witnesses, i thought, maybe, he just lent his place to his cousin and had no idea what he was doing. But witness statments saying michael vick was present at dog fights and personaly hung tortured electricuted and shot dogs, that equals guilty of the crime...doesn't mean he won't get off with a technicality, but he's guilty in my book. Thats like saying lindsy lohan was not involved in a DWI, she had no cocaine in car, she's innocent. After having seen the paparatzi video. Don't be so Naive.
 

reuel

Rookie
You're the one being naive. you believe everything the media wants to portray to you. you have no hard evidence, you have nothing to base your opinions on, your basing it on 'he said she said.' you're not in the court room, you are making assumptions based on the biased views of people who's standing outside the court room waiting on an inside scoop.

even if michael vick iss found guilty by the jury, he doesnt blemish the nfl or the flacons he blemishes himself and his own reputation. I dont know anyone that is going to want to start dog fighting because michael vick did it. you are overestimating these athletes' influence. I never heard of anybody wanting to fight people that are smaller than them because ron artest did.

People are responsible for their own actions, dont get mad at these athletes because they have their own issues, they are far from perfect. and people do change.

How come there wasn't a huge outroar about prsident clinton sending a bad message to kids about cheating on his wife? how come randy johnson wasn't accused of teaching kids to hit camera men? how come PETA is not standing in front of a hockey standium or a ufc match to boycott their fights, saying its inhumane?

you know why? because the media picks and choose their scapegoats. and the media has way more influence than michael vick, ron artest, or michael jordan.

and because of people like you that make rash assumptions, thats why this country's justice system will always be faulty
 

pyotrveliky

Rotation player
i dont think anyone is denying dogfighting occurred at the house. however, it is in vicks name. the only witnesses they have tying vick to it are doing it for a reduced sentence plea bargain or simply could be paid off to bag vick. the poiint is we dont know all the evidence so to prematurely decide before the outcome of the case is known is ridiculous
 

ShairanXIII

Rotation player
Ron is mentally troubled... psychiatric help and meds are what ron needs...

While I disagree with J-Zero about Mike Vick's guilt... you can't deny the impact this has had on the nfl... PETA protesting brought major negative publicity... advertisers were threatening to boycott Falcons games... impacting their revenues... sponsors have pulled his products... it's obvious the league wants to distance themselves from Vick... and look at what has come to the Falcons as a result? New coach. New gameplan. New starting QB...

Ron has the ear of the media not because they hate him... but because he gives them reason to with his lunacy... it's just like TO...

that being said... if we don't have to give up too much... I would take Ronny... Better defense... good scoring 3... if we keep nichols/chandler and balkman... we can afford to bench him if he acts up...
 
ROn, is probably a perfect fit, he'd bring that defensive swagger/attitude to that the knicks haven't had since oakly, ewing days. Him along side balkman Q, marbury and lee (depending on the rotation and subs, i know it would be difficult to have all of them out there at once), would be a lot of trouble for offenses across the league. He might even be able to rub off on curry and randolph. You know light a fire under the knicks who don't hustle on defense.
But as you say your self, he keeps his nose clean..if. I'm all in "IF" that happens.
My point wasn't that he gave a crappy apology, it's that you get no sense of remorse from him. With the whole brawl thing, he thought he was right. He didn't see anything wrong with saying, the suspension didn't really change his mind. Most people when they get caught up in the moment and make a mistake, they look back and say, i wish i could have done it different. Ron ron's, not built like that. Remorse for the wrongs in your life, is also a human character,that most people have. He lacks remorse, he lacks the ability to understand, whats wrong and right, whats acceptable and whats not. There is a line someone can cross, he doesn't have a clue about it.
And as far as having the privillage to play a game for money. You don't think he owes it to the people pay him, people who watch him? I would use the cliche do you think he would want his kids to follow his lead? But he doesn't think anythings wrong with being the loose cannon he is. But i know I wouldn't want my children to see me act like that. the fact that i know it's gonna be spread around, because i'm a person in the spotlight. It's a responsibility. I'm not saying other people shouldn't be able to beat their wife. I'm saying everyone is held to this standard, me and you do it,why can't he hold it up? Just because he plays B-Ball he gets a pass? I no way was i saying it is okay for someone to beat there wife, i'm saying it's bad, it makes you a bad person. Fighting, being a thug, is bad, and shouldn't be glorified or rewarded. Why should the NBA and the knicks reward another thug? Bring them into my livingroom, and expose him and all his behavior to kids across america. Is that the image NY wants? A thug/tough guy on the court during the game is welcome, but a person who can't seperate Being tough on court, and being a criminal off it, there is no place for.
My dad was a cop(retired), his life and his career, were held to a higher standard. His personal life. He'd tell me about guys getting assigned to desk duty over disputes with wife, lose their jobs for hitting there wife. DWI's and fights with civilians. fired or suspended a year. Positive drug test, fired. WHy because your in the public eye, and they messed up, you can't do those things and be considered a good person. Why shouldn't he be held to some sort of standard. He should be responsible for the image he portrays to kids growing up watching him. He's in the spotlight, if he likes it or not. Kids grow up and form opinions on life when they see him in the headlines. They see a guy who fights and beats his wife who everyone accepts as a hero, and think this behavior is okay. It's up to the NBA and the NY knicks not to pay trash. Not to make these guys heroes. I don't want artest to be a hero for us. Not unless he can portray a good role model. I'd hate to see him come here and go down the road Michael Vick is now on, suspended indefinetely, maybe going to jail for long part of his playing career. He's a blemish for the NFL and atlanta. Not a role model.


Character issues are widespread my friend. It happens to be the way of the world. Goes much deeper than Ron Artest and Mike Vick. These guys did not corner the market so to speak in that area. They play sports, and have real lives. I pay to watch sports. What these guys do in their spare time they have to answer for in their own terms. If it becomes public, they still have to answer. Just means they have created a sticky situation for themselves. I don't condone what they do, but it is their life. I watch sports for the sport. What the athletes do with their lives belongs to them, good or bad far as Im concerned.

As far as role models go, that is the parents job. It is their job to instill the proper principles within their family. Everyone has their own set.

Imo, you're not a good role model at all if you A: don't truely know and Love God.
B: Don't Teach others about the God you know and love ( starting with your immediate family )
And lastly C: Don't LIVE according to the will of the same God you claim you know and love.

If people did what God actually said, and lived accordingly to his will, there'd be no buried doggy carcasses, misdemeanors and the such. That is a fact.

The world as a whole thinks differently. Morals are warped, and stray from what actually should be done. Which is why you have all these non role models so to speak. The same person saying Ron is an idiot and makes a fool of himself, likely has a vice of his own merit that can be called out. After all, we are all imperfect.

All that said, this is why i view sports for sports, and real life for real life. We all have things to work on and do better. I will work with my kids so they too can see the diff between sports and real life. And how to deal with both accordingly. As everyone else should.
 

reuel

Rookie
^^ he said it exactly right.


while i agree that ron has the tendancy to make himself look bad in the media, and i dont beleive we should trade lee or any of our core guys for him, if we can get him for a good price...get him. i would give up balkman nate and dickau
 

jzero29

Rotation player
Touching

Ron artest is not the bad guy everyone wants to think. DO NOT EAT WHAT THE MEDIA GIVE YOU. The media will and always will portray Artest as the bad guy ever since the infamous brawl at the palace.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/ny-spartest175296350jul17,0,6050191.story?track=rss

Read that and tell me what you guys think...
You can't blame the media for his actions, the wife beating and palace brawl. Well, maybe this could have a positive effec on him as a person. Put life and things into perspective. But he still is a little crazy even in this article, he double talks himself. He says he's not chasing $$$ then He talks about Mr. dolan having money and being underpaid? I'd like to see him straighten out and fly right and NY really could use him. especially if they get him cheap.(keeping lee and possibly baulkman) But in order to get talent you need to give talent. I'm just going to need a little more, proof he's on the up and up as far as being a good person. Hope he just made some mistakes, this is just a step on the right path, hopefully he stays on it.
 
Ron whould be a much better fit for our club, besides we wouldn't have to give up half as much to get him instead of Kobe. Keep D.Lee and get some inside defencive help!!!
 

The 1 and Only

Rotation player
You can't blame the media for his actions, the wife beating and palace brawl. Well, maybe this could have a positive effec on him as a person. Put life and things into perspective. But he still is a little crazy even in this article, he double talks himself. He says he's not chasing $$$ then He talks about Mr. dolan having money and being underpaid? I'd like to see him straighten out and fly right and NY really could use him. especially if they get him cheap.(keeping lee and possibly baulkman) But in order to get talent you need to give talent. I'm just going to need a little more, proof he's on the up and up as far as being a good person. Hope he just made some mistakes, this is just a step on the right path, hopefully he stays on it.

But I can blame the media for blowing it out of proportion. He and his wife are still married and working things out...better than what most people can say. You can't buy a house in Kenya and be devoted to help little AIDS babies and not be a good person inside. He's a troubled and confused individual in the past I'm sure...but as long as he's bettering himself...no one can judge him. Only God can. We all make mistakes and the projects he's doing in Africa is great. Ignoring a player's talent to the magnitude of Artest's ability is ridiculous if criminal history is the motive. Terrible excuse. He's bettering himself and that's all that matters. Let's get him either this year or next year. Doesnt matter but we have to get him...
 

nyKnicks126

Go 1990s New York Knicks!
I agree the media (ESPN) makes Artest look bad. I didn't hear anything about Ron Artest being in Kenya helping out little kids, and poor families last month on ESPN. I read it online in nydaily. Artest is a good guy, but since he had problems in his younger days throwing cameras, throwing tempers, and fighting with fans @ the Palace, makes the media want to make him even worse then he is.I rather have Artest then Kobe. Look with Spree, he was in GS, was a bad kid there, and he went to the knicks he was a star, and unfortunately later on got traded.
 

The 1 and Only

Rotation player
Artest never was in trouble when he played in NY in college with St. Johns...anyone no why?? Because Coach Jarvis (St. John's head coach at the time) is a disciplinarian and pushes his players to the limit similar to what John Thompson did with Ewing, AI, among others.
 

Josh

Rookie
Artest never was in trouble when he played in NY in college with St. Johns...anyone no why?? Because Coach Jarvis (St. John's head coach at the time) is a disciplinarian and pushes his players to the limit similar to what John Thompson did with Ewing, AI, among others.

Yeah, the team went down the shitter with the sexual assault cases and crimes AFTER he left. I still say St. John's made a STUPID mistake getting ride of Jarvis. He was highly underrated. Just because he had crap to work with doesn't mean he should've been fired.
 
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