HAHAHAHA! Good post man...it's hard to explain the right to the wrong huh
Did someone say FACTS!
Eddy Curry is a "Work in Prosess".
Eddy Curry spent to much time in a Chicago Bulls Organization that lost all their Bigmen Assistant Coaches when Phil Jackson and Jordan left town (Coach Cartwright is half & half, being the Nets assistant coach this season his talents may shine through Maglore & rookie Williams).
The Chicago Bulls had the worst Bigman Assistant Coaches in the NBA for the past decade. The Ben Wallace signing was a big blessing with their younger players and the organization.
This is why Players like Brand, Miller, Artest, and Chandlor talent moved-up to the next level in all their NBA Skillz after being traded (when) months later when instructed differently by the next team assistant coaches.
Eddy Curry is a Work in Progress! which should've been the first player to show up at Mark Aquire offseason workout gym during July & August. There is no excuse for Curry & Zach for not making it unless they got shot in a House robbery.
The Curry & Zach Tandem will be a "Work in Process" at the start of the regular season.
How long will it take the two to Click together on offense consistently? or on Defense consistently?
That will be the main factor this season.
Will Marbury & Crawford tandem help out the Curry & Zack tandem click?
will also be a prime concern this season.
How good does a PG have to be for Isiah Thomas to give him Marbury Starting position???
HAHAHAHA! Good post man...it's hard to explain the right to the wrong huh
Metro, I have to be careful with using comparisons when I argue with you, because I wouldn't want you to interpret it the wrong way or call it irrelevant. The way you say that you cheer for this team (i.e. dreading players to death and then saying you hope they do well) can be a bit, for lack of a better term, annoying at times.
It's almost like dealing with a cranky kid on a road trip to Disneyland. He sulks for the few hours that you're driving on the road, complains that it's not going to be any fun, yadda yadda yadda... And then when you finally get there, it's like the kid's in heaven and he or she forgets about getting on your nerves. What are you thinking at that point? Are we, as fans, headed to "Disneyland"? Only time will tell, but we're moving in a positive direction.<O></O>
Metro, you have my respect. We've had our battles before, and I appreciate you accrediting the quality of my posts (I hope they are good quality). You know what? You have the right to not be happy with this team. 33 wins? What's the big deal right? You may be unhappy with management, and the trading of draft picks, and "cap space" that we would never have used in the last 3 years. Feel like we didn't get back enough value for our trades? I'm not forcing you to think any differently from that. <O>
I mean, today, we have Crawford, and the Bulls don't have Mutombo, FW, or Othella Harrington. You're not happy with how Crawford plays, and that's one reason you bag on Isiah. I still see a 27 year old who can still play with the same discipline and effort that he showed under Larry Brown. Eddy Curry has a breakout season, but you're still concerned about his weaknesses. I am too, but you've seemed to give up on him. I still see a 24 year old who worked hard enough to have a breakout season. We've heard question marks about consistency throughout his first few years, and he finally shows a good amount of improvement and is considered for the all-star game. I still see him working harder.
<O>Isiah doesn't get a free pass from me. All I was saying is that when you inherit a team with a fan base that wants to make the playoffs every single season, is used to winning (14 straight postseasons), but yet you have a situation comparable to staglflation where you have a team that sucks and a payroll for an all-star team, and a team which, for the most part of hte 90s, usually wasted their draft picks, you are bound to hit a lot of bumps. Phoenix<ST1> had a 29-win season, and that was with Amare Stoudamire, Shawn Marion, and Leandro Barbosa. They didn’t have to overhaul their roster the way we had to. Steve Nash arrived, and he had a foundation waiting for him. Amare and Marion (two key players of their current team) had been around each other for a couple seasons. Of course it didn't take as long as the Knicks, and we've yet to have a winning season, but you factor in our cap situation and it isn't something you'd prefer to deal with or say that Isiah and Colangelo had equal situations. You could believe that Isiah was financially irresponsible, but I don't think you'd be able to tell me how we'd be under the cap to sign a big time free agent between 2005 and now had we kept our expring contracts. <O></ST1>
Chicago went through about 6 years of limbo before they looked good. And they had a core that they were impatient with, and it turned out to include at some points a 20-10 guy, a DPOY, and an all-star center. <O>
If you can tell me of a current GM who inherited a situation as worse as Isiah did in 2004, then I'll be shocked. Nobody is calling Isiah the GM of the Year, and in no way do I feel like I'm giving him preferential treatment.<O>
Say what you will about doubting Larry Brown, but Isiah would’ve received a lot of backlash if he didn’t make a move for Larry Brown when he was available. It wasn’t to appease the media or the fans, it was meant to make our team better. This guy just coached a championship team, and it was his dream job to coach NY. You criticize Isiah for not getting “winners”, but then you say you initially knew that Larry wasn’t right for the team. In context, if people were expecting a championship in 05-06, then Larry wasn’t right for the team. If people expected EC finals, or the second round, Larry wasn’t rationally expected to do that. Did everyone expect us to at least make the playoffs? Yes, and that’s a rational belief. A majority of people would agree with me on that. Reggie Miller "The Knick Killer" called the Knicks his darkhorse team. Chauncey Billups was telling Stephon Marbury that the Knicks would be a better team. <O>
Steve Francis? You know who wanted him. Jalen Rose came with the eventual Renaldo Balkman selection. Metro, I understand how bad our turnover rate has been, but I never heard of a credible nba analyst suggest that a team trade for a player in order to reduce turnovers. Your concern includes trading for a scorer who needs the ball and is likely to turn it over. Every single team deals with this issue. Can miscommunication and carelessness with the ball be corrected? I firmly believe that it can.
How many times do I have to tell you? Isiah didn’t go get <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 /><st1:city w:st="[/IMG]Phoenix</st1:City"></st1:city><st1:city w:st="[/IMG]<ST1<ST1Randolph</st1:city> and say, “He is the answer to our interior defense issues.” You’re wasting time by getting that. </st1:city>
Nobody’s went around after the ‘06 draft and said, “Damn, we needed to address our turnover problem, and we get Renaldo Balkman, a guy who doesn’t even use the ball much on offense.” Did you complain that we didn't address our turnover problem when Isiah drafted Wilson Chandler and Demetris Nichols? Randolph WAS NOT ISIAH’S FOCUS OF ADDRESSING YOUR DEFENSIVE CONCERNS. WRITE THESE IN STANDARDS IF YOU HAVE TO. <O>
I’ll start it for you: <O>
<st1:city w:st="on">RANDOLPH</ST1></st1:city> WAS NOT ISIAH’S FOCUS OF ADDRESSING YOUR DEFENSIVE CONCERNS<O></O>
RANDOLPH WAS NOT ISIAH’S FOCUS OF ADDRESSING YOUR DEFENSIVE CONCERNS
RANDOLPH WAS NOT ISIAH’S FOCUS OF ADDRESSING YOUR DEFENSIVE CONCERNS
RANDOLPH WAS NOT ISIAH’S FOCUS OF ADDRESSING YOUR DEFENSIVE CONCERNS
RANDOLPH WAS NOT ISIAH’S FOCUS OF ADDRESSING YOUR DEFENSIVE CONCERNS
Is it bad that he didn’t go for a defensive minded player? Ideally you’d want him to, but who else was available? Do we stand pat? Who did we lose that would have made us better had we stood pat? This was an opportunity, and Isiah took it. Oh yeah, two exprings in return, and I you never mentioned that over the course of our argument.
Has our payroll decreased over the course of Isiah’s tenure here? Yes or no? Simple question, simple answer. Complain about the cap all you want, but again, if you think that Isiah could have been under the cap within these last 3 years legitimately enough to sign a big time free agent, then you are out of your mind. <O>
<O>Very bold. I must say I'm a bit disappointed in you. If you watched the NBA, Eddy Curry helped the team win 37 games, and they finished with 47 wins. Now you're probably going to tell me how useless Eddy was in those 10 other games because the Bulls showed that they can win without him. Knickerbocker please. Or, to quote you, "Don't bull**** anything around me." Need more proof? They had a 38 and 31 record before he left. Did you forget that they also had won 5 straight games with him on the active roster before he left? What about him averaging 21.6 in those last 5 games? <O>Roco don't ever bull**** anything around me, unlike some people I watch the NBA. Curry was injured for the Bulls at the end of their playoff season, they made a RUN without Eddy Curry and got into the playoffs easily without him. You think I didn't remember? Come on now.
Didn't they start the season out pretty slow? Well, if you watched the NBA then, you would have noticed that <st1:city w:st="on"><ST1>Chicago</ST1> made a series of runs throughout the season. One of them being a 5 game winning streak at one point during December 2004. Eddy averaged 16.2 ppg during that run. Again, I did say series of runs, so I'll include their 8 game winning streak during a stretch in January 2005, where he averaged 17.3 ppg. They followed it with a 5-1 stretch in which Eddy still got 17 ppg. I have to include the 4 game win streak in February where he averaged 20.7 ppg. The next two wins followed with a modest 10.5 ppg, but a 3 game win streak soon after saw him average 20.3 ppg. Then after 2 losses, the Bulls hit that 5 game winning streak I mentioned earlier.<O></st1:city>
With Eddy contributing, they made it to 8 games over .500. Now, I'm not discrediting the other Bulls members for getting a winning record without him. Eddy played well in meaningful games for them. 9-4 easy? Well, they did have the Bobcats twice, Cavs (didn't make the playoffs), the Magic, Atlanta, New York and Toronto. It's not like the Bulls struggled until Curry left and then made their run. I didn't count on you not remembering that. I’m not crediting all the success of those 37 games to Curry, I’m making a point that he made a significant contribution to put them in playoff position. <O>
Staying and working with Eddy Curry for 2 seasons, one of them a breakout, isn’t patience? Benching Marbury until he bought into the team philosophy wasn’t patience? Staying with David Lee before his unexpected breakout season and refusing to trade him for Theo Ratliff isn’t being patient? Isiah didn’t see Nazr Mohammed working out as our starting center. He didn’t see the 32 year old Kurt Thomas sticking around for much longer. Yeah, he traded them. Does it look like he wasn’t patient with those two? Sure, if one looks at it the way you do. What about today? This is a team that, if you can keep David Lee, Eddy Curry, Renaldo Balkman, Mardy Collins, and improving Nate Robinson, and an effective Zach Randolph together for a couple years, all while adding a few pieces here and there, then we’re talking about an eventual playoff contending team. Eddy, David, Balkman, Mardy, and Nate have already experienced growing pains with each other. I’m expecting them to be better this season, and they expect that out of themselves too. <O>
I was talking with another Knicks fan the other day, and he made an interesting point. He doesn’t think that Layden should be the basis for which we evaluate Isiah. In a way, I could see what he was getting at, but when you talk in terms of the situation that both inherited when they took over the job, Layden has to be a factor. If you’re going to defend Layden by saying that we were barely brushing the 8<SUP>th</SUP> seed, then go ahead. I don’t think some people will listen to you on that one. <O>
I could further explain the course of developments that took place starting 2 years ago, but then I’d just be repeating what I’ve been saying, and you’d be telling me that I’m giving Isiah special treatment. If I were to answer, it would include the availability of Eddy Curry, Q-Rich, and 2 draft picks, as well as the effect of the arrival of Larry Brown. But again, I’d be repeating myself. <O>
Marbury, Malik Rose, and David Lee are showing that they believe in their team, understand the expectations of the fans (the playoffs), and expect to play better than last season. Don’t be dumb and think it’s just some sort of publicity stunt, because I am pretty sure that had these players said anything negative or pessimistic about the upcoming season, you would have been all over it. When we first got Zach, Malik acknowledged that we looked good on paper but we still needed to see how it would mesh. He wasn’t kissing anyone’s ass, and he’s still on this team. <O>
As I read your post, I find myself having to reply against the same complaints over and over. You don’t like Eddy Curry? Fine. But you seem so convinced that anyone else would have been better than him, that some of us can’t take you seriously. I’m not ignoring the fact that Eddy has things to work on, but give it a rest already. The guy just had a breakout season, and you’re telling me that his development is slow? Eddy started getting some acclaim from around the league last season, and you’re just crapping all over it. I expect Eddy to play better next season. Of course I’ll be disappointed if he doesn’t do so. It’s like you think I’d make excuses for him regardless of how he plays. <O>
I’m not predicting the future. Where did I do that? You don’t know about when a player enters his prime either, and yet you choose some guys to hate on and savor the possibilities of other guys. <O>
The Suns play to their strengths. That’s the point. Can’t you let the Knicks develop and learn how to play to theirs strengths also? <O>
Cap. Reduced or increased after 3 years? You tell me. <O>
Here we go. You’re putting words in my mouth and telling me that I’m comparing Garnett to <st1:city w:st="on"><ST1>Randolph</ST1>. It’s getting irritating that you can’t comprehend something simple, and that you blow it up into something completely off-topic. <O></st1:city>
Can you at least show that you can read my post? <O>
A modest 14 and 10.
Did I say he averaged 14 and 10? ABSOLUTELY NOT. It’s clear that I said he got 14 and 10 in game 7. You decided to skim through my post and just guess what I was saying. <O>
<O>You and I don't know, we don't hang out with the players on the consistent basis or see whats going on behind the locker room. If you're going to believe everything you read in the papers then you're going to misinterpret everything and be easily fooled. We can think and believe, but to know something we don't and speak about is silly and will only continuing this thread to go longer.
The same goes to you. <O>
I just had to bring this up after I noticed it. So who's saying "if" now? And trading for one man all of a sudden gives us several perimeter defenders? What specific mistakes would you select anyway? You vehemently talk about how bad management has been, but all of a sudden that's willing to change with one more acquisition.If Isiah gets Artest, I'd forget about most mistakes he made in the past because we'll finally have a sick squad full of perimeter defenders.
This debate is getting kinda pointless. Although there are some valid concerns that you imply and that I understand, you also make some pretty bold and lopsided accusations, and it seems that this is becoming nothing more than some “you push me, I push you back” argument. Let’s just see how this works out.
<O></O>Go Knicks. Also, kudos to Kiyaman for what I consider a very rational post.
Last edited by Roco; Sep 21, 2007 at 19:22. Reason: Smiley face glitch
Good post...I know what you're going through...the kid doesn't get it but only wants to be right all the time. Do what I do...make your point and ignore him...it's only going to get worse through his immaturity...this season is going to start off with a bang. We have the potential to make playoffs, defense is a team thing not an artest thing so if Isiah preaches defense and ball control in training camp we should be straight. Knicks 07-08...weeks away...ya'll ready for what's about to go down?
No. Thats a firm no, especially since you wasted a post without giving any good hard reasons. Curry isn't even the 2nd best player on this team.
Big Ben Wallace
Most of these aren't even debatable, so I'm done with you.
Loco, you still don't know how to post on this site without leaving a thousand smileys like a maniac? I figured after 30-50 post you would figure it out, I guess your slow on things, like realizing Isiah isn't a good GM.
You shouldn't even use comparisons anymore, it has backfired on you timelessly. So you're right, you should find a different technique. These Crawford vs. Kobe Curry vs. God comparisons just really get you no where.
You got the methodology all ****ed up here. This is my team, and I show a lot of passion for my team, negative or positive, thats the role of being a fan. I've repeated this 4-5 times in a very simply put but well organized way. If you can't understand that, I suggest to put your head back in the hole and stay blinded to the light. Gracias.
I haven't been to DisneyLand since I was like 5, I had a blast there though. I see you lost points in this debate and can't seem to continue so you write about something offtopic to make it look like you wrote a lot( its not about writing a lot Loco, you gotta slam the facts right infront of me and put me in my place, nohomo), cool I could chat with you about Disneyland, hit me up on AIM.
I can understand your value for Curry, and the other key players we obtain in those trades, I'm glad you understand my position on cap space, draft picks and my examples on how I showed other teams were successful with this method, while we haven't been successful and got the negative side of the deal.
Bulls don't have those players cause they freed up captain, they got something better than those guy, a multi-time defensive player of the year.
How do you see Crawford playing with the same discipline that he had under Brown when he's playing for Isiah? What TV you got? That would be a sweet deal to see Crawford actually play under control. Unfortunately not everyone has this magic TV you have, cause Crawford went back to **** mode under Isiah. When Brown came in, he gave Crawford a hard time, but then I saw Crawford maturing before my eyes. I had really high expectations for him coming into the 06-07 season. But Isiah had to do another TURNAROUND and change the gameplan, which lets Crawford plays more freely. Crawford playing more freely = he wins one on one, we lose the game.
We're not seeing the same thing in Curry obviously.
What do you know about the NYK fanbase? Aren't you back in the Bay Area, where you knowledge on the GS State fanbase is more unlimited. The Knicks fanbase wants quality basketball, New York style. Isiah hasn't brought that here.
You still fail to explain how not making majority of Isiah's moves wouldn't help the cap. Good job.
Chicago is a top 3 team in the East, with alot of young prospects. Those 6 years were worth it from what I've seen. I ****ing envy Chicago and how lucky they got raping Isiah in those deals to benefit themselves now and in the future. I would wait 2 more years for the Knicks to be a top 3 team in the East, anytime. You would too if you like seeing the Knicks win.
Isiah hasn't done his job, instead he played with ideas and came into the Knicks organization without a plan. Why can't you see that instead of live in this little world where Isiah is the hero to every situation that plays in life? Get over that already, its old and done. It's been over 3 years and Isiah is still dicking you and other fans of the most important franchise in the NBA.
Who cares about blacklash? I'm not even discussing that. I wanted what was best for the team, and Brown wasn't the right fit. How hard is it for you to understand that a team of turnover prone players who are limited defensively will take a lot of time and progress to develop chemistry under a guy like Larry Brown? Anyway, Larry Brown was a ****ty move, and I was proven to be correct again with the outcome of the whole situation. Brown left NYC with a ****load of money of doing a job he knew he couldn't finish. BTW, Billups was coached by Brown, its obvious he's going to be positive about his former coach that he won a championship with.
You obviously trying your best not to understand now. Let me make it simple for you. When the team is weakest in the NBA at turnovers, but yet the GM insist to trade for players who dominates the ball, call for isolation plays, are known for traveling or offensive fouls...you're not answering the problem, instead the GM makes it a bigger issue. so WTF? You don't need a NBA analyst for that fool. Overloading turnover prone players on a turnover prone team isn't very smart.
Are you okay Roco, or have you gone mentally retarded now? Lets grow up here. Typing in CAPS and spamming the thread with the same caveman-text 5 times isn't really wanted here. Keep that out of the thread, thanks.
You just realized the Knicks got two expiring contracts in the Randolph deal? You're a slow one, I was mentioning that before.
I told everyone here I thought the Randolph deal benefited the Knicks talent wise, but didn't address any of our weaknesses, we did increase in rebounding strength and added another isolation scorer.
The payroll would of decreased regardless, so stop hugging Isiah's nuts proclaiming him as the savior of handling the cap. So you're telling me the Knicks would still have cap problems if they never made all those ridiculous trades Isiah has done?
Props for the solid stats you got there for Curry, but still doesn't change the fact Chicago got into the playoffs without Curry. 10 games makes a HUGE difference. If Curry was so important, why didn't they collapse like when the Miami Heat collapse when Shaq got injured? Curry doesn't have that type of impact on a team, he's not an impact player, never is and never was; hopefully he will be with all this freedom we're giving him. Does Chicago need Curry now to be a top 3 team in the EAST? No, they're not even concerned, they got a lot of young pieces and are looking to a championship and the future. Thats what I want to look at. Unfortunately you have your eyes focus on Curry's derriere. You need to understand Chicago became a successful NBA team because of the two trades with Isiah. Dumping slowly developing players like Crawford and Curry just brought success to their franchise; cap space, lottery picks, free agent market with experienced winning veterans. I don't know man, why don't we try that for once? Why don't we try to be successful?
Theres Knick fans in the Bay Area? Or was it another of your illusions or wacky predictions? lol.
I know what happened 2 years ago, don't get frustrated or cry.
If you play a sport, you should believe in yourself 100% and in your team 100%. Those guys showing that doesn't surprise me. I'm surprise it surprised you so much. Do you get into sports out there? Basketball is one of the few sports I enjoy watching on TV, I much rather be out there and experience the activity.
Curry's development has been slow, go track his NBA career if you haven't before. His breakout season is just an increase in minutes and softer defense. I've watched Curry for about 60 games in 06-07, how about you? All I saw was him being non existent in the interior and being force fed minutes by Isiah who apparently didn't care about the winning in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd period. Remember when we made those little runs in the 4th with Balkman, Lee, and etc; but always fall short because we didn't preform well enough in the previous periods. To me, winning is much more important than Curry's development, and thats where Isiah and I see differently.
You've predicted the future with your irrational beliefs no one wants to read, and why would you deny that now? Theres nothing wrong with it. You said, it was irrelevant to the thread, just move on. I'm not really hating on anyone if you want to be emotional now, I just don't see how you can predict anyone's prime exactly. The estimate is 28-31. Alot of players are different, so we don't know. Some guys go into their prime at 25-26 and disappear, due to injury or just lack of proper training routine. Stop looking in one direction all the time.
How can the Knicks develop if they don't improve on their weaknesses and always overhaul each season with a new gameplan? I'm not holding the Knicks back pendejo, Isiah is.
I really don't feel like reading your beliefs, your wacky comparisons you do a terrible job in explaining about and something you don't know for certain over and over, I think I'm doing a pretty job good reading your post though.
You and I don't know, we don't hang out with the players on the consistent basis or see whats going on behind the locker room. If you're going to believe everything you read in the papers then you're going to misinterpret everything and be easily fooled. We can think and believe, but to know something we don't and speak about is silly and will only continuing this thread to go longer.
^ I'm disappointed you couldn't understand simple as that. I was referring to US, I wasn't "crapping" on you again. You've been way too defensive. Next time when you post, hit it up with some solid hard facts so you won't have to be defensive so much, even against the most simplest things.
Oh, wow...I say "if" once, now Roco is jumping all over it like he found his first pot of gold and leprachaun. they're always after me lucky charms! ahahah, peace.
My bad about that smiley face thing, I have no idea what's going on. It does that whenever I edit posts. I'll try to edit it out, so I'm sorry if anyone, including metrocard, took it the wrong way.
Yo, I'm done. If you think that everything I say is BS then you can feel that way. We both went through seeing LJ hit the three to us suffering all this time, and yet you and I see things differently. That's just how it is. Honestly, for the most part of reading your replies, it seems more like your flaming me instead of making an effort to at least understand, not agree, with my reasoning.
Disneyland? You turned some kind of general example into something you could use to accuse me of going off-topic. The expiring contracts? You post as though I only heard about that yesterday. BTW, you give me crap whenever I use "if" statements, so that argument that "ifs" aren't reasonable to use is basically dead.
Here's the Sparknotes version of my counter-argument.
The Bulls have done well. I just wouldn't be paying Ben Wallace 14 mil a year when Tyson Chandler could have done that for me for 4 million less and a longer tenure. They went under the cap, and they got a big time guy. But are they in a position where they can utilize his skills just like the Pistons did? Last time I checked, although they are a playoff team, there are two deserving lottery picks who are looking for extensions and the Bulls are still looking for a low-post scorer.
I definitely understand. I'm just saying that Isiah never sold the idea that Randolph was the exact answer that we needed. Though when you look at the two players we gave up, and the nice upgrade at the power forward spot, we should be better this season.I told everyone here I thought the Randolph deal benefited the Knicks talent wise, but didn't address any of our weaknesses, we did increase in rebounding strength and added another isolation scorer.
Well there is a difference between a team like Portland saying "we'll be better this year" and a few key Knicks players saying that they expect nothing less than the playoffs. The Knicks have clearly set the bar high and expect a lot from themselves, with the PLAYOFFS being an expectation. No doubt that every team will have players who support their team, but our players will not accept anything less than a playoff berth.If you play a sport, you should believe in yourself 100% and in your team 100%. Those guys showing that doesn't surprise me. I'm surprise it surprised you so much. Do you get into sports out there? Basketball is one of the few sports I enjoy watching on TV, I much rather be out there and experience the activity.
And how many other forums have you been banned from? Haha j/kYou've predicted the future with your irrational beliefs no one wants to read, and why would you deny that now?
Look, I've never thrown an insult at you, so it surprises me that you're trying to come back with this "pendejo" and "are you gonna cry now?" bit. It's actually kinda funny.
I don't think I'm making any predictions or forcing them on anyone at all. I'm just making a comment of how I think we're going to do as a team based on what we've all seen, just like anybody else. Does having an opinion mean that I'm predicting the future? It seems that you'll have the same argument with anyone who doesn't agree with you. I absolutely know that should the Knicks have a losing record next season, you're going to hold whatever you can against me. So be it. Just know where I stand. I expect a healthy Knicks team to make the playoffs this season, and if they don't, then I'll be just as disappointed as anyone else can be.
Both you and I care about the betterment of this team, and yet we kill each other more than fans of a rival team. Have a nice day.
Last edited by Roco; Sep 21, 2007 at 21:37.
Off last season, no GM would balk at Curry being 24 or 25 heading into his prime and leading the NBA in points in the paint OVER ALL those great names you put so far ahead of him. You don't take guards over dominant big men. So most your list went in flames because of that fact. And yes... it's a fact.
Ok... I guess you mean these guys are better when you use them on NBA K GAMES LOL... I mean even you can't be that dumb.... Well, then again
I never seen someone go this hard... Just to make their opinion fact lol. But then again, your sig reads :
The best poster on KO.com. How did you get this? A forum vote? Or how I think, you thinking SO HIGHLY OF YOUR MAGNIFICENT INTELLECT? HAHAHA!
You probably have your own picture with your shirt off in your camera phone too. Just you!
Maybe even Metro posters on your own wall... again... Just you!
The best poster on KO.com!
I'm sure this will be GREAT!
Last edited by Knicks4lyfe; Sep 21, 2007 at 19:55.
Curry & Zach! how do they pan out together?
They both are Halfcourt offensive players, that rarely take part in an uptempo running game. The two will slow the team down to just halfcourt settings. Knick oponents will push the ball down court fast every time on offense to see how fast Curry & Zach get back on defense.
The last two seasons the Knick Players had problems getting the ball to Flat-Footed Curry downlow to many players picked up unnecesary turnovers which lead to steals just by passing Curry the ball. Curry does not step into the pass to catch the ball or bend down low to catch a low pass.
Zach Randolph is Flat-Footed too with the same problem so he will come outside for the ball which mean he becomes a Bigman dribbler.
The Knicks dont need another dribbler on the court that cant pass off the dribble.
The outcome of alot of Knick Games will depend mostly on how well Curry & Zach do together on the Defensive-Boards. Ewing & Oakley gave up one shot by grabbing every defensive rebound. Ewing & Oakley barely got beat by oponents from the Peremeter because the Knick guards defended close-up on oponents on the peremeter, so beating the Knicks guards off the dribble at the peremeter to only run into Oakley, Mason, or Ewing was not a great idea.
Having Curry & Zach in the paint the Knicks guards can not defend up close on the peremeter. So all the Knicks opositionTHREES will become "Open-Shots" with Curry & Zach defending the paint. .
The Old Knicks Won using a halfcourt offense the majority of the game (low score) with Bill Cartwright & Bernard King, and with Ewing & Oakley because they played 48 minutes of TEAM-DEFENSE.
Curry, Zach, and Marbury are "ONLY" Halfcourt Offensive Players that are not Known for playing DEFENSE in their NBA career.
Oakley = bum. Otis Thorpe outplayed he and Mason in the finals 93. Mason was also a bum. Most that team was terrible. That is why they ran halfcourt sets, cuz they had no scoring ability other than Ewing and Starks on a good day.
That team that everyone fell in love with was never that good.
Metro Metro Metro come on dude ive tried to stay away from ur negativity but come one do u truly beleive all those guys are better the Curry now come on. But since my boy KNicks4lyfe pretty much said everything i would have said ill leave it at that.
now Kiyman Kiyman Kiyman, you make a point which was defense is a team sport and although some of those guys arent lifetime defenders you cant tell me Marbury hasnt picked it up a noch or two and like you said defense is a team event the entire team has to work as a unit to make it work. and if the coach does his job and plan a defense of strategy for each team which he hasnt done so far then each one of our poor defensive players would look so much better.
Now you say that Curry and Zack are bad for this team ok you take a 20 and 10 guy who dominates the inside and you add a 20 and 7 guy who does the same and you tell me that its not a good thing they are on the same team. yeah they need work on defense but thats the coaches job and you blame curry on why there were so many turnovers? if the team played team ball Curry should have gotten the ball 90% of the time way sooner then he did. Then the Team decides after he recieves the ball to just stand around so when he gets doubled and sometimes tripled he has no one to pass it too. Yes Curry is not a great passer but he dosnt have a chance on passing it to anyone cause the person who is supposed to be open was usually on the other side of the court. Which is a team problem not a Curry problem. If the Knicks start playing some team ball then we will be hard as hell to beat.
This might be his last chance to show that he can make his team mates better, including both, Curry and Randolph.
"Those who believe in telekinetics, raise my hand."
The way things look on the surface weeks before Training Camp open, the Knick-Players got big-Jokes on their Boss and Head Coach Isiah Thomas Law Suit that should've been settled out of court. The Media is making mockery of the Knicks Organization throughout this court case of foolishness.
Isiah Thomas drafting young run-run uptempo players out of college is a great future however, his trading for slow halfcourt offensive players whom seem defenseless is BAD.
Isiah Thomas main offensive lineup of "Curry, Zach, and Marbury" whom may be the top players on the roster to receive the most minutes of playingtime this 2007-8 season are known by their career in the NBA to be a liability on defense, plus they are only productive in a slow Half-Court-Offense inwhich alot of Knick Oponents will apply a strong defensive pressure on the Passing-Lane in a halfcourt setting to prevent the ball from getting to Curry & Zach with alot of time on the shot clock.
So when Curry or Zach do get the ball nine out of ten times they will have a few seconds on the shot clock to put it up. This is an easy effective defensive plan to do to Flat-Footed Bigmen like Curry & Zach to take time off the shotclock and make the Knicks reset the play downlow. If anyone could recall this defensive plan was used on Curry & Davis, Curry & Taylor, Curry & Malik, Curry & Frye, and Curry & Jefferies, from the majority of teams in the league. And I doubt if teams change this effective defense plan because of the addition of Zach Randolph.
Why this defensive plan work so well on the Knicks is because Marbury, Crawford, and Francis have problems PASSING the Ball off of their Dribble in a halfcourt setting when their oponents defense is already setup (their two handed passes to their Bigmen is like a FLAG going up that has no suprise effect to oponents or fans).
This is the reason I could never get upset with Nate or Collins when forced to play a Halfcourt offense and the Coach is always yelling a play from the bench to pass the ball to Curry downlow when it became impossible to do so Nate Robinson never passed the ball to Curry under Coach Larry Brown or Isiah Thomas ( And Nate Robinson picked up the IMMATURE label at his Garbage Time perfomances.). The Knicks are afraid to trade Nate Robinson to the next team because of how well Nate Performs with Crawford, Lee, Balkman, and Collins in an uptempo running game. Say what you want about Nate Robinson but this guy has dug the Knicks out of alot of Holes to tie the score in his two seasons with this team. Nate is a Running Combo Guard that alot of uptempo teams would LUV to have (Bobby Jackson). His Halfcourt Offensive game is comming around if he keeps improving his outside shooting percentage from 20 to 30 feet out.
Those of us who watched alot of Knick Games the Last two seasons seen the majority of steals taking away from the Knicks were done by Passing the ball to Eddy Curry, having Zach maybe an advantage for the team however, both Curry & Zach scoring performance will be reduced.
Do Zach need 35 MPG to grab just 10 rebounds?
Do Curry need 35 MPG to grab 7 rebounds?
The defensive-rebounding is what will be important to this team when both are on the court together.
How come every B-Ball Fan knew what the Knicks were going to do on offense when Eddy Curry was in the game???
I brought up your repetitive false predictions because they don't prove anything in your arguments. Doing 5-7 paragraphs of false predictions doesn't really show anyone here anything. I'm glad you now understand "if" doesn't really help you. You don't do this often because you debate well and throw in facts when you need to; but when you catch that habit, it gets tiresome.
Ben Wallace/Chandler same roles. Does it matter if Chicago got Wallace at his prime? No, he's still one of the best rebounder/defender you can find in the NBA.
I never asked you what Isiah stated if Randolph was the answer to our interior defense; I wouldn't need to because the answer to that obvious. Isiah has failed as a GM to upgrade in our primary weaknesses. He has done a solid job in upgrading the talent; does that equal to winning? The last 3-4 years says no. This season we'll have to see.
Don't take it too hard, I call everyone pendejo, hell in Puerto Rico everyone calls each other loco, just friendly chat. Gracias for laughing.
"It seems that you'll have the same argument with anyone who doesn't agree with you."
You should speak for yourself.
Nah Roco, I get tired of coming back to the off season and making fun of Isiah apologist because they proclaimed Isiah as the GM who made all the right moves when they turn out be wrong when we miss the playoffs. But this season I'm actually pretty hyped, I don't remember being this confident about the Knicks since 02'. We got Balkman, Collins, Lee and promising guys in Chandler/Nichols/Morris. Hopefully the starters work together as a team rather than as individuals.
I asked you to explain to me why Eddy Curry is a top 50 NBA player; meaning overall player and value.
Did you do that?
All you did was spazz like an autistic child and say:
"MARTIN? BUTLER? OKUR? JOSH SMITH? ODOM??!?!?!?!"
That made me laugh, I could picture you actually saying those names loudly in a very confusing way.
Stop eating Isiah's popcorn and come back to reality to realize a one dimensional player like Eddy Curry isn't worthy of top 50, efficiency wise he's not 50 either.
NYC-Dude, you're boys with Knicks4Lyfe? I never knew that.
I know those guys are better than Curry because they are more efficient and better all around players. When Curry improves his efficiency and his all around game, I know he's a top 50 NBA player.
NYC, do you read anything? I just completely went hard body on Roco on this Curry/Randolph thing. Re-read everything in this thread because everything you said has been proven weak.
Curry should of gotten the ball 90% of the time? How does that create ball movement when Curry doesn't pass, lol. You talk about team ball, but want the ball to Curry 90% of the time. Why not 100%? Oh wait, 90% is consider team ball to you right? Ahahahahahahaaha. Honestly this is the funniest thing I ever read in here. What a silly contradiction.
The autistic comment shows your immaturity. Be mindful of persons on here who may have autistic family members or friends. It is a public message board. I would expect the best poster on the board to know at least THAT much. ( Pictured me spazzing right there too?)
Anywho, You never clarified your rating system on the top 50 big guy, you simply said he is not a top 50 player. I laughed my butt off, because I readily know off of last year if all teams were devoid of NBA players, Eddy Curry would certainly be a top 50 choice by some smart GM.
Are there better all around players, sure. But Curry's size and abilities, even if he were to remain a one dimensional player, will more than compensate for his short comings. 6'11 280lb plus big men that move like gazelles don't grow on trees. Hence his value is a TON higher (spazzing again) Than most of your list, simply based on lack of quantity in the league of players of his stature. Dwight Howard is huge. Curry makes him look lightweight. And he owns him and anyone else one on one.
There are plenty of 3's and two's to fill the void if you have such a big man on your team. That is why Oden was picked over a few players I am sure will be better overall players. But I play ball. I recognize the value of having a game changing big man. And even one dimensional, that is what Eddy Curry is.
Be glad he is on your team. Geez.