can eddie and zach mix?

Roco

Rookie
My bad about that smiley face thing, I have no idea what's going on. It does that whenever I edit posts. I'll try to edit it out, so I'm sorry if anyone, including metrocard, took it the wrong way.

Yo, I'm done. If you think that everything I say is BS then you can feel that way. We both went through seeing LJ hit the three to us suffering all this time, and yet you and I see things differently. That's just how it is. Honestly, for the most part of reading your replies, it seems more like your flaming me instead of making an effort to at least understand, not agree, with my reasoning.

Disneyland? You turned some kind of general example into something you could use to accuse me of going off-topic. The expiring contracts? You post as though I only heard about that yesterday. BTW, you give me crap whenever I use "if" statements, so that argument that "ifs" aren't reasonable to use is basically dead.

Here's the Sparknotes version of my counter-argument.

The Bulls have done well. I just wouldn't be paying Ben Wallace 14 mil a year when Tyson Chandler could have done that for me for 4 million less and a longer tenure. They went under the cap, and they got a big time guy. But are they in a position where they can utilize his skills just like the Pistons did? Last time I checked, although they are a playoff team, there are two deserving lottery picks who are looking for extensions and the Bulls are still looking for a low-post scorer.

I told everyone here I thought the Randolph deal benefited the Knicks talent wise, but didn't address any of our weaknesses, we did increase in rebounding strength and added another isolation scorer.

I definitely understand. I'm just saying that Isiah never sold the idea that Randolph was the exact answer that we needed. Though when you look at the two players we gave up, and the nice upgrade at the power forward spot, we should be better this season.

If you play a sport, you should believe in yourself 100% and in your team 100%. Those guys showing that doesn't surprise me. I'm surprise it surprised you so much. Do you get into sports out there? Basketball is one of the few sports I enjoy watching on TV, I much rather be out there and experience the activity.

Well there is a difference between a team like Portland saying "we'll be better this year" and a few key Knicks players saying that they expect nothing less than the playoffs. The Knicks have clearly set the bar high and expect a lot from themselves, with the PLAYOFFS being an expectation. No doubt that every team will have players who support their team, but our players will not accept anything less than a playoff berth.

You've predicted the future with your irrational beliefs no one wants to read, and why would you deny that now?

And how many other forums have you been banned from? Haha j/k

Look, I've never thrown an insult at you, so it surprises me that you're trying to come back with this "pendejo" and "are you gonna cry now?" bit. It's actually kinda funny.

I don't think I'm making any predictions or forcing them on anyone at all. I'm just making a comment of how I think we're going to do as a team based on what we've all seen, just like anybody else. Does having an opinion mean that I'm predicting the future? It seems that you'll have the same argument with anyone who doesn't agree with you. I absolutely know that should the Knicks have a losing record next season, you're going to hold whatever you can against me. So be it. Just know where I stand. I expect a healthy Knicks team to make the playoffs this season, and if they don't, then I'll be just as disappointed as anyone else can be.

Both you and I care about the betterment of this team, and yet we kill each other more than fans of a rival team. Have a nice day.
 
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No. Thats a firm no, especially since you wasted a post without giving any good hard reasons. Curry isn't even the 2nd best player on this team.

Duncan
Garnett
James
Kobe
Nash
Wade
Dirk
Shaq
Yao
Boozer
Bosh
Arenas
Brand
Gasol
Stoudemire
Anthony
Howard
Carter
Kidd
McGrady
Iverson
Baron Davis
Chris Paul
Ray Allen
Paul Pierce
Camby
Shard Lewis
Z.Randolph
Okafor
Iverson
Big Ben Wallace
J.Johnson
Odom
J.O'Neil
Deron Williams
Redd
Jefferson
Butler
Artest
Iguodala
G.Wallace
Antawn Jamison
Tony P
Luol Deng
Billups
Josh Smith
Tyson Chandler
Josh Howard
Kevin Martin
David West
David Lee
Brandon Roy
Hamilton
Ginobili
TJ Ford
Andris Biedrins
Okur(tie)
Ben Gordon(maybe)

Most of these aren't even debatable, so I'm done with you.

75% Of that list is a joke dopey. Ford? Beidrins? DAVID LEE? LOL... TYSON CHANDLER? LMAOOOOO.... JAMISON? KEVIN MARTIN? BUTLER? OKUR? JOSH SMITH? ODOM? LAKERS CAN'T GIVE HIM AWAY!!!

Off last season, no GM would balk at Curry being 24 or 25 heading into his prime and leading the NBA in points in the paint OVER ALL those great names you put so far ahead of him. You don't take guards over dominant big men. So most your list went in flames because of that fact. And yes... it's a fact.

Ok... I guess you mean these guys are better when you use them on NBA K GAMES LOL... I mean even you can't be that dumb.... Well, then again
:)

I never seen someone go this hard... Just to make their opinion fact lol. But then again, your sig reads :
metrocard <script type="text/javascript"> vbmenu_register("postmenu_36959", true); </script>
The best poster on KO.com. How did you get this? A forum vote? Or how I think, you thinking SO HIGHLY OF YOUR MAGNIFICENT INTELLECT? HAHAHA!

You probably have your own picture with your shirt off in your camera phone too. Just you!

Maybe even Metro posters on your own wall... again... Just you!

k, grabbing my popcorn for metrocard <script type="text/javascript"> vbmenu_register("postmenu_36959", true); </script>
The best poster on KO.com!

I'm sure this will be GREAT!
 
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Kiyaman

Legend
Curry & Zach! how do they pan out together?

They both are Halfcourt offensive players, that rarely take part in an uptempo running game. The two will slow the team down to just halfcourt settings. Knick oponents will push the ball down court fast every time on offense to see how fast Curry & Zach get back on defense.

The last two seasons the Knick Players had problems getting the ball to Flat-Footed Curry downlow to many players picked up unnecesary turnovers which lead to steals just by passing Curry the ball. Curry does not step into the pass to catch the ball or bend down low to catch a low pass.
Zach Randolph is Flat-Footed too with the same problem so he will come outside for the ball which mean he becomes a Bigman dribbler.
The Knicks dont need another dribbler on the court that cant pass off the dribble.

The outcome of alot of Knick Games will depend mostly on how well Curry & Zach do together on the Defensive-Boards. Ewing & Oakley gave up one shot by grabbing every defensive rebound. Ewing & Oakley barely got beat by oponents from the Peremeter because the Knick guards defended close-up on oponents on the peremeter, so beating the Knicks guards off the dribble at the peremeter to only run into Oakley, Mason, or Ewing was not a great idea.
Having Curry & Zach in the paint the Knicks guards can not defend up close on the peremeter. So all the Knicks opositionTHREES will become "Open-Shots" with Curry & Zach defending the paint. .

The Old Knicks Won using a halfcourt offense the majority of the game (low score) with Bill Cartwright & Bernard King, and with Ewing & Oakley because they played 48 minutes of TEAM-DEFENSE.

Curry, Zach, and Marbury are "ONLY" Halfcourt Offensive Players that are not Known for playing DEFENSE in their NBA career.
 
Curry & Zach! how do they pan out together?

They both are Halfcourt offensive players, that rarely take part in an uptempo running game. The two will slow the team down to just halfcourt settings. Knick oponents will push the ball down court fast every time on offense to see how fast Curry & Zach get back on defense.

The last two seasons the Knick Players had problems getting the ball to Flat-Footed Curry downlow to many players picked up unnecesary turnovers which lead to steals just by passing Curry the ball. Curry does not step into the pass to catch the ball or bend down low to catch a low pass.
Zach Randolph is Flat-Footed too with the same problem so he will come outside for the ball which mean he becomes a Bigman dribbler.
The Knicks dont need another dribbler on the court that cant pass off the dribble.

The outcome of alot of Knick Games will depend mostly on how well Curry & Zach do together on the Defensive-Boards. Ewing & Oakley gave up one shot by grabbing every defensive rebound. Ewing & Oakley barely got beat by oponents from the Peremeter because the Knick guards defended close-up on oponents on the peremeter, so beating the Knicks guards off the dribble at the peremeter to only run into Oakley, Mason, or Ewing was not a great idea.
Having Curry & Zach in the paint the Knicks guards can not defend up close on the peremeter. So all the Knicks opositionTHREES will become "Open-Shots" with Curry & Zach defending the paint. .

The Old Knicks Won using a halfcourt offense the majority of the game (low score) with Bill Cartwright & Bernard King, and with Ewing & Oakley because they played 48 minutes of TEAM-DEFENSE.

Curry, Zach, and Marbury are "ONLY" Halfcourt Offensive Players that are not Known for playing DEFENSE in their NBA career.


Oakley = bum. Otis Thorpe outplayed he and Mason in the finals 93. Mason was also a bum. Most that team was terrible. That is why they ran halfcourt sets, cuz they had no scoring ability other than Ewing and Starks on a good day.

That team that everyone fell in love with was never that good.
 

NYC-BOY

Benchwarmer
Wow U Guys Are Bugging

Metro Metro Metro come on dude ive tried to stay away from ur negativity but come one do u truly beleive all those guys are better the Curry now come on. But since my boy KNicks4lyfe pretty much said everything i would have said ill leave it at that.

now Kiyman Kiyman Kiyman, you make a point which was defense is a team sport and although some of those guys arent lifetime defenders you cant tell me Marbury hasnt picked it up a noch or two and like you said defense is a team event the entire team has to work as a unit to make it work. and if the coach does his job and plan a defense of strategy for each team which he hasnt done so far then each one of our poor defensive players would look so much better.

Now you say that Curry and Zack are bad for this team ok you take a 20 and 10 guy who dominates the inside and you add a 20 and 7 guy who does the same and you tell me that its not a good thing they are on the same team. yeah they need work on defense but thats the coaches job and you blame curry on why there were so many turnovers? if the team played team ball Curry should have gotten the ball 90% of the time way sooner then he did. Then the Team decides after he recieves the ball to just stand around so when he gets doubled and sometimes tripled he has no one to pass it too. Yes Curry is not a great passer but he dosnt have a chance on passing it to anyone cause the person who is supposed to be open was usually on the other side of the court. Which is a team problem not a Curry problem. If the Knicks start playing some team ball then we will be hard as hell to beat.

:beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer:
 

pat

Starter
Curry & Zach! how do they pan out together?

They both are Halfcourt offensive players, that rarely take part in an uptempo running game. The two will slow the team down to just halfcourt settings.

How good they can play together mainly depends on the quality of the point guard they are on the floor with. You could also ask how Marion, Diaw, and Stoudemire can coexist on the court. Marbury just has to get everybody involved (and I am not talking about trying). He had enough years trying. Last year his numbers actually indicated more team play but it didn't translate into more wins.

This might be his last chance to show that he can make his team mates better, including both, Curry and Randolph.
 

Kiyaman

Legend
The way things look on the surface weeks before Training Camp open, the Knick-Players got big-Jokes on their Boss and Head Coach Isiah Thomas Law Suit that should've been settled out of court. The Media is making mockery of the Knicks Organization throughout this court case of foolishness.

Isiah Thomas drafting young run-run uptempo players out of college is a great future however, his trading for slow halfcourt offensive players whom seem defenseless is BAD.

Isiah Thomas main offensive lineup of "Curry, Zach, and Marbury" whom may be the top players on the roster to receive the most minutes of playingtime this 2007-8 season are known by their career in the NBA to be a liability on defense, plus they are only productive in a slow Half-Court-Offense inwhich alot of Knick Oponents will apply a strong defensive pressure on the Passing-Lane in a halfcourt setting to prevent the ball from getting to Curry & Zach with alot of time on the shot clock.

So when Curry or Zach do get the ball nine out of ten times they will have a few seconds on the shot clock to put it up. This is an easy effective defensive plan to do to Flat-Footed Bigmen like Curry & Zach to take time off the shotclock and make the Knicks reset the play downlow. If anyone could recall this defensive plan was used on Curry & Davis, Curry & Taylor, Curry & Malik, Curry & Frye, and Curry & Jefferies, from the majority of teams in the league. And I doubt if teams change this effective defense plan because of the addition of Zach Randolph.

Why this defensive plan work so well on the Knicks is because Marbury, Crawford, and Francis have problems PASSING the Ball off of their Dribble in a halfcourt setting when their oponents defense is already setup (their two handed passes to their Bigmen is like a FLAG going up that has no suprise effect to oponents or fans).

This is the reason I could never get upset with Nate or Collins when forced to play a Halfcourt offense and the Coach is always yelling a play from the bench to pass the ball to Curry downlow when it became impossible to do so Nate Robinson never passed the ball to Curry under Coach Larry Brown or Isiah Thomas ( And Nate Robinson picked up the IMMATURE label at his Garbage Time perfomances.). The Knicks are afraid to trade Nate Robinson to the next team because of how well Nate Performs with Crawford, Lee, Balkman, and Collins in an uptempo running game. Say what you want about Nate Robinson but this guy has dug the Knicks out of alot of Holes to tie the score in his two seasons with this team. Nate is a Running Combo Guard that alot of uptempo teams would LUV to have (Bobby Jackson). His Halfcourt Offensive game is comming around if he keeps improving his outside shooting percentage from 20 to 30 feet out.
Those of us who watched alot of Knick Games the Last two seasons seen the majority of steals taking away from the Knicks were done by Passing the ball to Eddy Curry, having Zach maybe an advantage for the team however, both Curry & Zach scoring performance will be reduced.
Do Zach need 35 MPG to grab just 10 rebounds?
Do Curry need 35 MPG to grab 7 rebounds?
The defensive-rebounding is what will be important to this team when both are on the court together.

How come every B-Ball Fan knew what the Knicks were going to do on offense when Eddy Curry was in the game???
 

metrocard

Legend
Sup Roco.

I brought up your repetitive false predictions because they don't prove anything in your arguments. Doing 5-7 paragraphs of false predictions doesn't really show anyone here anything. I'm glad you now understand "if" doesn't really help you. You don't do this often because you debate well and throw in facts when you need to; but when you catch that habit, it gets tiresome.

Ben Wallace/Chandler same roles. Does it matter if Chicago got Wallace at his prime? No, he's still one of the best rebounder/defender you can find in the NBA.


I never asked you what Isiah stated if Randolph was the answer to our interior defense; I wouldn't need to because the answer to that obvious. Isiah has failed as a GM to upgrade in our primary weaknesses. He has done a solid job in upgrading the talent; does that equal to winning? The last 3-4 years says no. This season we'll have to see.

Don't take it too hard, I call everyone pendejo, hell in Puerto Rico everyone calls each other loco, just friendly chat. Gracias for laughing.

"It seems that you'll have the same argument with anyone who doesn't agree with you."

You should speak for yourself.


Nah Roco, I get tired of coming back to the off season and making fun of Isiah apologist because they proclaimed Isiah as the GM who made all the right moves when they turn out be wrong when we miss the playoffs. But this season I'm actually pretty hyped, I don't remember being this confident about the Knicks since 02'. We got Balkman, Collins, Lee and promising guys in Chandler/Nichols/Morris. Hopefully the starters work together as a team rather than as individuals.

Peace Roco.




Knicks4lyfe, oyeme.

I asked you to explain to me why Eddy Curry is a top 50 NBA player; meaning overall player and value.

Did you do that?

No.

All you did was spazz like an autistic child and say:
"MARTIN? BUTLER? OKUR? JOSH SMITH? ODOM??!?!?!?!"

That made me laugh, I could picture you actually saying those names loudly in a very confusing way.

Stop eating Isiah's popcorn and come back to reality to realize a one dimensional player like Eddy Curry isn't worthy of top 50, efficiency wise he's not 50 either.




NYC-Dude, you're boys with Knicks4Lyfe? I never knew that.

I know those guys are better than Curry because they are more efficient and better all around players. When Curry improves his efficiency and his all around game, I know he's a top 50 NBA player.

NYC, do you read anything? I just completely went hard body on Roco on this Curry/Randolph thing. Re-read everything in this thread because everything you said has been proven weak.

Curry should of gotten the ball 90% of the time? How does that create ball movement when Curry doesn't pass, lol. You talk about team ball, but want the ball to Curry 90% of the time. Why not 100%? Oh wait, 90% is consider team ball to you right? Ahahahahahahaaha. Honestly this is the funniest thing I ever read in here. What a silly contradiction.
 
All you did was spazz like an autistic child and say:


The autistic comment shows your immaturity. Be mindful of persons on here who may have autistic family members or friends. It is a public message board. I would expect the best poster on the board to know at least THAT much. ( Pictured me spazzing right there too?)

Anywho, You never clarified your rating system on the top 50 big guy, you simply said he is not a top 50 player. I laughed my butt off, because I readily know off of last year if all teams were devoid of NBA players, Eddy Curry would certainly be a top 50 choice by some smart GM.

Are there better all around players, sure. But Curry's size and abilities, even if he were to remain a one dimensional player, will more than compensate for his short comings. 6'11 280lb plus big men that move like gazelles don't grow on trees. Hence his value is a TON higher (spazzing again) Than most of your list, simply based on lack of quantity in the league of players of his stature. Dwight Howard is huge. Curry makes him look lightweight. And he owns him and anyone else one on one.

There are plenty of 3's and two's to fill the void if you have such a big man on your team. That is why Oden was picked over a few players I am sure will be better overall players. But I play ball. I recognize the value of having a game changing big man. And even one dimensional, that is what Eddy Curry is.

Be glad he is on your team. Geez.
 

NYC-BOY

Benchwarmer
Metro whats up

Let me explain to you why i think it should start with Curry or Zack now down low first then let it move from there so that we can have a good half court strategy going. ight marbury brings the ball down the court passes to zack or Curry now once they get doubled with the other players moving around which didnt happen last year Curry or Zack can find an open player they can pass the ball and make open shots for everyone else. Now you say Curry cant pass. Ok the problem isnt that Curry dosnt pass the problem is that everyone was standing around last year not getting open and the one person who was left open usually was on the other side of the court. Now just because it goes into Curry's or Zack's hands first dosnt mean the rest of the team is not involved because they are a big part of when he gets double they get open and score the easy basket. still team ball. just like the point guard getting the ball first before almost every play but its still a team game right. Now if the players move around and Curry still cant pass the ball then hey we can start most plays with Zack cause i know you seen him pass the ball pretty good huh then when he gets doubled he can pass it to the open guy and hey they get easy basket still a team sport everyone needs to play together. Now on defense cause i know your big on defense ive said it so many times if we play together and work as a team which also includes the coach making up a plan for each team to shut them down each player would look so much better. the Spurs look so good on Defense because they work as a team to stop people so does dallas and i beleive if we do it together so will NY. Unfortunatly im not sure how great Isiah is as a coach i do like the team he put together but i really dont like him as a coach cause he dosnt bring the team together and he dosnt plan strategies for defense for any team
 

metrocard

Legend
Not really, the comment shows I don't need to be serious all time. You get mad when I don't be serious, in response to your sarcasm? Ayy bendito.

You've failed to explain why Eddy Chubby's a top 50 player again. Is this the 3rd time in a row? Could you possibly go for 4? Is that even possible?

Size? Come on brother; I guess Peter John Ramos should be ranked up top 50 too. That guy is huge, 7"3 and 290.

Ability? Is this the only word that came to mind? I could honestly give much better reasons than you're giving me right now. I actually feel like debating myself with how soft you're going here, especially with words like "ability". Size and ability aren't even the main reasons why Chubby has value.

You never clarified anything in your post, no head to comparisons, didn't even mention basic things like Eddy Chubbys strengths.

Curry wasn't even invited to team USA camp. Why? FIBA is fast paced and fundamental. The half court is smaller in size compared to the NBA, so big men have lesser space. This is why a lot of good passing big men look good in FIBA, because they know how to move the ball and still create plays in and out. Curry doesn't have this ability. Having a big man who knows how to pass is great for the offense, instead of having a guy who doesn't move the ball and turns it over at a high rate, making the defense easy for other teams. Tyson Chandler made it over Eddy, so where this value of Curry you speak of? BTW, I would take Chandler over Curry in a heartbeat. Size, rebounding, shot blocking, interior defense, and 7"1 PF/C hybrid. Randolph/Chandler would be the ultimate duo, both compliment each other greatly, don't you agree? Curry didn't even make the all star team in an East Conference inferior in big men compared to the Western Conference.

Like I said, you'll never find an answer to why the Eddy Chubby of today is a top 50 NBA player. PLAYER, not post scorer or turnover machine or plays defense with a pillow, I'm talking about PLAYER, overall compared to the rest of the competition in the NBA.

Chubby isn't even the best player on the KNICKS.

Dwight Howard is 6"11 275 lbs, and is the most diesel dude in the NBA.
Chubbyis 6"11 280, and is chubby. So no, Chubby doesn't make Dwight look like a lightweight, Dwight is the guy usually making other guys look like lightweights.

Oden isn't one dimensional like Chubby and was hyped since high school; plus Portland needed a center. Plus he had an amazing freshman year even playing with an injury, dude deserve the number one pick for sure. He got injured, so? His weakness obviously is conditioning, and he needs to improve on it.


Chubby inability to pass the ball wasn't a problem last year? How many times we saw him force plays, turnovers, fouls and miss the open man that limited our offense?

There were 2-3 people guarding Curry at times, did you watch the Knicks last season? There were always 2-3 guys OPEN every time Chubby had the ball. Chubby constantly ignore them, and try finish the play as an individual. I got so use it, when Chubby finally did pass I jumped out of my couch and celebrated. Chubby guy didn't even average 1 assist last season, and had the worst assist to turnover ratio in the NBA.

The point guard suppose to touch the ball every play...no really??? Its funny how you talk about "team" ball, but only mention like 3 players names.

The guys who played team ball last season
Marbury
Collins
Richardson
Balkman
Lee

Guys who didn't
Francis
Chubby
Crawford
Robinson

Team ball meaning, playing defense at the best of their ability, sharing and creating shot opportunities and turnovers, and just being play makers on both sides of the ball, consistently.

Individual play = one on one play, high rate of turnovers, more negative than positive, very little effort or efficiency on defense.

You said Chubby should get the ball 90% of the time; meaning he should dominate the ball most of the time. First of all, Chubby isn't that good to be dominating the ball 90% of the time. He isn't Shaq, KG, Duncan, or even Randolph. When you come with Curry as your main weapon, compare to the other main weapons in the NBA...you're coming in pretty weak.

I actually like Isiah more than a coach than a GM. He's a player's coach, but the team he put together has too many holes and he majority of his trades have failed our franchise.
 

NYC-BOY

Benchwarmer
Really

I know hes not shack or tim duncon but just like those two guys you mentioned he demands the double or triple team at all times thats why omg he deserves to be part of the top 50. he demands you said it yourself he demands the double even the triple at times so does that explain enough to you why he is on our list of top 50. ight now you never said anything about what i said that the team wasnt moving even if they were open they werent in a good position or cuttng to the basket so that they can get an open shot. You never said i was wrong so i guess i was right like i am right about saying that the turnover problem wasnt his falt the team was standing around waiting for him to do something Isiah needs to do something about that and i hope he does this season anything else metro
 
Not really, the comment shows I don't need to be serious all time. You get mad when I don't be serious, in response to your sarcasm? Ayy bendito.

You've failed to explain why Eddy Chubby's a top 50 player again. Is this the 3rd time in a row? Could you possibly go for 4? Is that even possible?

Size? Come on brother; I guess Peter John Ramos should be ranked up top 50 too. That guy is huge, 7"3 and 290.

Ability? Is this the only word that came to mind? I could honestly give much better reasons than you're giving me right now. I actually feel like debating myself with how soft you're going here, especially with words like "ability". Size and ability aren't even the main reasons why Chubby has value.

You never clarified anything in your post, no head to comparisons, didn't even mention basic things like Eddy Chubbys strengths.

Curry wasn't even invited to team USA camp. Why? FIBA is fast paced and fundamental. The half court is smaller in size compared to the NBA, so big men have lesser space. This is why a lot of good passing big men look good in FIBA, because they know how to move the ball and still create plays in and out. Curry doesn't have this ability. Having a big man who knows how to pass is great for the offense, instead of having a guy who doesn't move the ball and turns it over at a high rate, making the defense easy for other teams. Tyson Chandler made it over Eddy, so where this value of Curry you speak of? BTW, I would take Chandler over Curry in a heartbeat. Size, rebounding, shot blocking, interior defense, and 7"1 PF/C hybrid. Randolph/Chandler would be the ultimate duo, both compliment each other greatly, don't you agree? Curry didn't even make the all star team in an East Conference inferior in big men compared to the Western Conference.

Like I said, you'll never find an answer to why the Eddy Chubby of today is a top 50 NBA player. PLAYER, not post scorer or turnover machine or plays defense with a pillow, I'm talking about PLAYER, overall compared to the rest of the competition in the NBA.

Chubby isn't even the best player on the KNICKS.

Dwight Howard is 6"11 275 lbs, and is the most diesel dude in the NBA.
Chubbyis 6"11 280, and is chubby. So no, Chubby doesn't make Dwight look like a lightweight, Dwight is the guy usually making other guys look like lightweights.

Oden isn't one dimensional like Chubby and was hyped since high school; plus Portland needed a center. Plus he had an amazing freshman year even playing with an injury, dude deserve the number one pick for sure. He got injured, so? His weakness obviously is conditioning, and he needs to improve on it.


Chubby inability to pass the ball wasn't a problem last year? How many times we saw him force plays, turnovers, fouls and miss the open man that limited our offense?

There were 2-3 people guarding Curry at times, did you watch the Knicks last season? There were always 2-3 guys OPEN every time Chubby had the ball. Chubby constantly ignore them, and try finish the play as an individual. I got so use it, when Chubby finally did pass I jumped out of my couch and celebrated. Chubby guy didn't even average 1 assist last season, and had the worst assist to turnover ratio in the NBA.

The point guard suppose to touch the ball every play...no really??? Its funny how you talk about "team" ball, but only mention like 3 players names.

The guys who played team ball last season
Marbury
Collins
Richardson
Balkman
Lee

Guys who didn't
Francis
Chubby
Crawford
Robinson

Team ball meaning, playing defense at the best of their ability, sharing and creating shot opportunities and turnovers, and just being play makers on both sides of the ball, consistently.

Individual play = one on one play, high rate of turnovers, more negative than positive, very little effort or efficiency on defense.

You said Chubby should get the ball 90% of the time; meaning he should dominate the ball most of the time. First of all, Chubby isn't that good to be dominating the ball 90% of the time. He isn't Shaq, KG, Duncan, or even Randolph. When you come with Curry as your main weapon, compare to the other main weapons in the NBA...you're coming in pretty weak.

I actually like Isiah more than a coach than a GM. He's a player's coach, but the team he put together has too many holes and he majority of his trades have failed our franchise.


You are 19 paco, You do not have the ability to make me mad. I just chalk most of what you say as being young and stupid. We've all been there. Just figured you might wanna be mindful of everyone on the board with your insults towards me. You said like an autistic person. Some of your fellow message board members may have to deal with that. Never know. Just saying, a smart guy like yourself should be able to exchange barbs without blanketing a group of persons with mental disabilities. If you were a journalist responding to my post in a blog, you would have likely been fired for that autistic comment. Keep that in mind. My attack was based squarely on you. Of how you are perceived on this board. You are an easy target. You basically open yourself up.

Speaking of ability, since it seems to be a useless word, at least as far as Eddy Curry is concerned. Let me help you out.

a?bil?i?ty (ə-bĭl'ĭ-tē)
pron.gif

n., pl. -ties.
  1. The quality of being able to do something, especially the physical, mental, financial, or legal power to accomplish something.
  2. A natural or acquired skill or talent.
Hmm. See that second meaning? Natural or acquired skill. Size does not mean anything alone. Therefore, Curry must be doing something with his ability. I mean, leading the league in points in the paint when so many people are better than you must mean SOMETHING. What was his fg % How did he rate there? What were his ppg by the month after say... jan?

Again, I used abilities as to not have to tediously list every single quality concerning Curry. That's what you do. Makes you feel like some message board journalist or something I guess. I don't have that type of time bendito.

We all know his shortcomings. He has A LOT of work to do yet. But, what he does provide is more than enough to take him in a top 50 draft.

By the way... I attend a lot of Knick games bro. Curry swallows Dwight. Had him hanging under the rim time and time out... even with those guns you say he has( and he is pretty big ). If you have not seen the Knicks play Orlando at the Garden, get tickets this year. You will see for yourself how Curry makes him look like a regular forward. Or.. look at Curry's numbers vs Orlando :)



If every big man had Curry's abilities, I could see your point. But they don't. Hence his value is higher than your list. Whether you like it or not. It's so true :)
 

pat

Starter
Let me explain to you why i think it should start with Curry or Zack now down low first then let it move from there so that we can have a good half court strategy going. ight marbury brings the ball down the court passes to zack or Curry

There your theory already begins to fail since the entry pass on a center or power forward is usually done by a small forward or a shooting guard. There might be a few exceptions (e.g. Stockalone) but generally this is what happens: the PG passes the ball to a SF or SG who either penetrates or passes. If the defense feels threatened by the big man they will either double him using the guard defending the passing man or using the weak side defender. Now Eddie and Zach have to be able to get the ball on the weak side as quickly as possible or at least to the top of the key so that the PG can get the rock on the weak side for him. That is what you are going to play with a dominant bigman. Too much movement without the ball would even make it harder for the big guys to find an open man.

But that leaves us with two main questions:
1.) Whether he Eddie is a top 50 player or not, can he do that? Last season he obviously couldn't too often

2.) What happens if the defense decides to play a zone? Do the Knicks have enough fire power to punish a defense concentrating its effort in the "power zone" around Eddie or Zach?

I think this is the main problem the Knicks are going to have next year. The big guys might be ideal for set play, but the perimeter players are ideal for fast break basketball and 'penetrate and pitch'. So the question (at least from my point of view) isn't so much whether Zach and Eddie can mix, but whether Eddie and Zach can mix with the rest of the team.
 

donchris

Next season, keep waiting
I've read more nonsense in this one thread then in all of KOL combined. I'm sure this redderick will quiet once the season starts. When building a team you take the opportunities as they present them selves. The opportunity presented it's self to move Francis and Frye, two players that proved them selves to be underachievers, for Zach Randolph, Fred Jones, and Dan Dickau. So one seemingly untradable player was traded along side a young player for a 20'10 guy trade assets.

Talk about Curry and Randolph slowing us down = more nonsense. Both players can run the fast break, both players are rebounders (read the stats) and both players can score they're asses off. So the argument is that Randolph is not a defensive minded player. Although this is a logical point, it's a moot point. Why constantly focus on the teams faults and not point out that this is a better team today than it was one year ago.

The Knicks have defense in Jeffries. STOP. Read this in it's entirety before you jump to conclusions. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Jeffries injured during his first season as a Knick? Do you think this may be a solid reason why his performance was affected? Jeffries doen't need the ball to be affective and he can play 3 positions. He's a keeper. Give him another year.

Conclusion: Randolph/Jones/Dickau > Francis/Frye.
Randolph brings more to the table than scoring. He's a 20' 10 play that can pass. A tandem of Curry/Randolph can not be guarded. Q. Rich/Crawford/Marbury bring even more versatility to the team and Lee and Balkman off of the bench is a major added bonus. Over all this team is in good shape and better than last years team.
 
There your theory already begins to fail since the entry pass on a center or power forward is usually done by a small forward or a shooting guard. There might be a few exceptions (e.g. Stockalone) but generally this is what happens: the PG passes the ball to a SF or SG who either penetrates or passes. If the defense feels threatened by the big man they will either double him using the guard defending the passing man or using the weak side defender. Now Eddie and Zach have to be able to get the ball on the weak side as quickly as possible or at least to the top of the key so that the PG can get the rock on the weak side for him. That is what you are going to play with a dominant bigman. Too much movement without the ball would even make it harder for the big guys to find an open man.

But that leaves us with two main questions:
1.) Whether he Eddie is a top 50 player or not, can he do that? Last season he obviously couldn't too often

2.) What happens if the defense decides to play a zone? Do the Knicks have enough fire power to punish a defense concentrating its effort in the "power zone" around Eddie or Zach?

I think this is the main problem the Knicks are going to have next year. The big guys might be ideal for set play, but the perimeter players are ideal for fast break basketball and 'penetrate and pitch'. So the question (at least from my point of view) isn't so much whether Zach and Eddie can mix, but whether Eddie and Zach can mix with the rest of the team.

I will agree somewhat with your analysis. I'm eager to see if the shooting will improve from the guards. Have to be able to make teams pay in Zones... cuz they will see a lot.

Nate can shoot, Crawford, Steph and Q are streaky. Collins will have to improve. Doubt Nichols will play much. So I hope with all these interviews Steph is doing he is working relentlessly on the 3 ball. Same for Crawford and Q.
 

metrocard

Legend
Conclusion: Randolph/Jones/Dickau > Francis/Frye.

Weak conclusion that doesn't relate to the thread.

So you agree 100% with what I said. But no one said Francis/Frye > Randolph/Jones/Dickau. I've already stated we got a positive out of that trade in terms of value.

I know hes not shack or tim duncon but just like those two guys you mentioned he demands the double or triple team at all times thats why omg he deserves to be part of the top 50. he demands you said it yourself he demands the double even the triple at times so does that explain enough to you why he is on our list of top 50. ight now you never said anything about what i said that the team wasnt moving even if they were open they werent in a good position or cuttng to the basket so that they can get an open shot. You never said i was wrong so i guess i was right like i am right about saying that the turnover problem wasnt his falt the team was standing around waiting for him to do something Isiah needs to do something about that and i hope he does this season anything else metro

lol, why did you say OMG in between that? You make me laugh hard bro.

Who the hell is Shack? or even Tim Duncon? I'll google it.

Shack
800px-Rundown_Shack.jpg


"Duncon"
Duncon_Cock_Frame.jpg


Apparently you're not talking about NBA players.

Eddy Curry isn't top 50. He demands double teams cause it makes the defense easier for opposing teams knowing Curry doesn't pass out of those double teams, hence = turnover. Duncan and Shaq actually pass the ball, REBOUND, and play at a totally elite level offensively and defensively compared to Ed.

How was Curry not part of the problem of turnovers when he by far led the team in turnovers with over 3.6? Almost 1 turnover more than Jamal's 2.7. Heh, Crawford and Curry both got the most minutes on the Knicks, most turnovers, dominated the ball majority of the game, both played terrible defense which a very poor point team differencial. Looking at last season these guys are cancerous. Maybe letting Crawford/Curry run the team ISN'T the smartest idea. They failed miserably in Chicago, they failed last year, why let it happened again? Crawford/Curry = not successful. No succesful players = No successful team. You don't sign a homeless to be the CEO of a company and expect wealth and success. You look for motivated experienced successful people for that position. This is why Isiah is such a GM, he's giving NBA losers like Chubbs and Crawful opportunity to lead a NBA team as the primary and secondary options.

I hope Isiah does something positive, I'm not gonna lie Isiah did something good last year and that was get STARBURY back to his old self after Larry Brown changed Marbury's flow. Isiah got Marbury to play defense, play with more passion and effort. If he can get Curry and Crawford to do this, I won't complain at all and would join the flock of Isiahsexuals.

You are 19 paco, You do not have the ability to make me mad. I just chalk most of what you say as being young and stupid. We've all been there. Just figured you might wanna be mindful of everyone on the board with your insults towards me. You said like an autistic person. Some of your fellow message board members may have to deal with that. Never know. Just saying, a smart guy like yourself should be able to exchange barbs without blanketing a group of persons with mental disabilities. If you were a journalist responding to my post in a blog, you would have likely been fired for that autistic comment. Keep that in mind. My attack was based squarely on you. Of how you are perceived on this board. You are an easy target. You basically open yourself up.

Speaking of ability, since it seems to be a useless word, at least as far as Eddy Curry is concerned. Let me help you out.

a?bil?i?ty (ə-bĭl'ĭ-tē)
pron.gif

n., pl. -ties.
  1. The quality of being able to do something, especially the physical, mental, financial, or legal power to accomplish something.
  2. A natural or acquired skill or talent.
Hmm. See that second meaning? Natural or acquired skill. Size does not mean anything alone. Therefore, Curry must be doing something with his ability. I mean, leading the league in points in the paint when so many people are better than you must mean SOMETHING. What was his fg % How did he rate there? What were his ppg by the month after say... jan?

Again, I used abilities as to not have to tediously list every single quality concerning Curry. That's what you do. Makes you feel like some message board journalist or something I guess. I don't have that type of time bendito.

We all know his shortcomings. He has A LOT of work to do yet. But, what he does provide is more than enough to take him in a top 50 draft.

By the way... I attend a lot of Knick games bro. Curry swallows Dwight. Had him hanging under the rim time and time out... even with those guns you say he has( and he is pretty big ). If you have not seen the Knicks play Orlando at the Garden, get tickets this year. You will see for yourself how Curry makes him look like a regular forward. Or.. look at Curry's numbers vs Orlando :)

If every big man had Curry's abilities, I could see your point. But they don't. Hence his value is higher than your list. Whether you like it or not. It's so true :)

I was joking with you and I don't really have any reason to insult you because you never said anything that offensive to me. I already made you mad by how you stressed everything. I'm 19, so? I love college, I work 2 part time jobs and I enjoy boxing on my free time. Life is great, thanks for bringing it up. If you're going to generalize me because I'm younger than you, go ahead. People who do that haven't really done anything in their lives so they generalize others based on one thing (age, race, gender, etc silly bullshit like that sensitive/stressed out/mad people look for). You're just making my swagger bigger papa.

Aha @ the contradiction. You left yourself open for the right cross, brother. Ability is a useless word, but why was it your only word? Why discredit yourself like that? You might as well proclaim your whole post as useless.

Whatever Curry's ability is, its not best suited as a primary option to lead us into the playoffs and be competed. Curry would be best fit as a secondary option who gets 28-32 minutes a game because of his poor defense and his inability to pass out of the post.

You still haven't give me a well detailed post on why Curry is better than the 50 players I listed, overall players and value. Come on brother, if you came in here saying Curry had potential to easily crank into the top 50 and become an all star, I would totally AGREE and back you up on that. But you came in here with no logic, facts and a very weak argument of agility that you yourself called useless; how you expect not to drop caca on you?

NBA.com doesn't even rank Curry top 60, he's behind Dalembert and Bogut

1. Kevin Garnett - BOS [PF]
2. Shawn Marion - PHX [SF,PF]
3. Gilbert Arenas - WAS [PG]
4. LeBron James - CLE [SF]
5. Kobe Bryant - LAL [SG]
6. Steve Nash - PHX [PG]
7. Jason Kidd - NJN [PG]
8. Dirk Nowitzki - DAL [PF]
9. Amare Stoudemire - PHX [C]
10. Josh Smith - ATL [SF,PF]
11. Chris Paul - NOH [PG]
12. Andre Iguodala - PHI [SG,SF]
13. Dwyane Wade - MIA [SG]
14. Pau Gasol - MEM [C]
15. Yao Ming - HOU [C]
16. Chris Bosh - TOR [PF]
17. Tim Duncan - SAS [PF]
18. Al Jefferson - MIN [PF,C]
19. Vince Carter - NJN [SG]
20. Ray Allen - BOS [SG]
21. Paul Pierce - BOS [SG,SF]
22. Caron Butler - WAS [SF]
23. Rashard Lewis - ORL [SF]
24. Michael Redd - MIL [SG,SF]
25. Deron Williams - UTA [PG,SG]
26. Allen Iverson - DEN [PG,SG]
27. Chauncey Billups - DET [PG]
28. Joe Johnson - ATL [SG]
29. Tracy McGrady - HOU [SG]
30. Gerald Wallace - CHA [SF,PF]
31. Luol Deng - CHI [SF,PF]
32. Dwight Howard - ORL [C]
33. Marcus Camby - DEN [C]
34. Carlos Boozer - UTA [PF]
35. Lamar Odom - LAL [PF]
36. Antawn Jamison - WAS [PF]
37. Baron Davis - GSW [PG]
38. Emeka Okafor - CHA [PF,C]
39. Jermaine O'Neal - IND [PF]
40. Zach Randolph - NYK [PF]
41. David West - NOH [PF]
42. Rasheed Wallace - DET [PF]
43. Carmelo Anthony - DEN [SF]
44. Kevin Durant - SEA [SG,SF]
45. Brandon Roy - POR [SG]
46. Kevin Martin - SAC [SG]
47. Kirk Hinrich - CHI [PG,SG]
48. Josh Howard - DAL [SF]
49. Leandro Barbosa - PHX [PG,SG]
50. Mike Miller - MEM [SF]
51. Ron Artest - SAC [SF]
52. Mike Bibby - SAC [PG]
53. Andre Miller - PHI [PG]
54. Tony Parker - SAS [PG]
55. Mo Williams - MIL [PG,SG]
56. Ben Gordon - CHI [SG]
57. Jason Terry - DAL [PG,SG]
58. Raymond Felton - CHA [PG,SG]
59. Danny Granger - IND [SF]
60. LaMarcus Aldridge - POR [C]
61. Manu Ginobili - SAS [SG]
62. Randy Foye - MIN [PG,SG]
63. Ricky Davis - MIN [PG,SG]
64. Jason Richardson - CHA [SG,SF]
65. Mehmet Okur - UTA [C]
66. Andrei Kirilenko - UTA [SF]
67. Corey Maggette - LAC [SF]
68. Monta Ellis - GSW [PG,SG]
69. Andrew Bogut - MIL [C]
70. Samuel Dalembert - PHI [C]
71. Eddy Curry - NYK [C]



Alright, I NOW these are NBA fantasy rankings, but still even Yahoo don't got that chubby guy on their top 50.

http://sports.yahoo.com/fantasy/nba/news?slug=bf-bigboard-basketball

This dude is irrelevant right now when it comes to top 50, on my list, NBA, Yahoo and everybodys list, except Isiah; where Crawford and Curry are the top 2.

Come on man, what the fuck is this? My kindergarden teacher assistant? Leaving me a smiley face on my homework? Please don't leave smileys at the end of post cause you didn't feel confident in what you wrote. Curry's inabilities hurt us more than his abilities. Re-read my post if you want detail fort that. Peace.
 

metrocard

Legend
There your theory already begins to fail since the entry pass on a center or power forward is usually done by a small forward or a shooting guard. There might be a few exceptions (e.g. Stockalone) but generally this is what happens: the PG passes the ball to a SF or SG who either penetrates or passes. If the defense feels threatened by the big man they will either double him using the guard defending the passing man or using the weak side defender. Now Eddie and Zach have to be able to get the ball on the weak side as quickly as possible or at least to the top of the key so that the PG can get the rock on the weak side for him. That is what you are going to play with a dominant bigman. Too much movement without the ball would even make it harder for the big guys to find an open man.

But that leaves us with two main questions:
1.) Whether he Eddie is a top 50 player or not, can he do that? Last season he obviously couldn't too often

2.) What happens if the defense decides to play a zone? Do the Knicks have enough fire power to punish a defense concentrating its effort in the "power zone" around Eddie or Zach?

I think this is the main problem the Knicks are going to have next year. The big guys might be ideal for set play, but the perimeter players are ideal for fast break basketball and 'penetrate and pitch'. So the question (at least from my point of view) isn't so much whether Zach and Eddie can mix, but whether Eddie and Zach can mix with the rest of the team.

Excellent EXCELLENT post, left off with a great question that will be answered this season, I can't wait!
 

Kiyaman

Legend
There your theory already begins to fail since the entry pass on a center or power forward is usually done by a small forward or a shooting guard. There might be a few exceptions (e.g. Stockalone) but generally this is what happens: the PG passes the ball to a SF or SG who either penetrates or passes. If the defense feels threatened by the big man they will either double him using the guard defending the passing man or using the weak side defender. Now Eddie and Zach have to be able to get the ball on the weak side as quickly as possible or at least to the top of the key so that the PG can get the rock on the weak side for him. That is what you are going to play with a dominant bigman. Too much movement without the ball would even make it harder for the big guys to find an open man.

But that leaves us with two main questions:
1.) Whether he Eddie is a top 50 player or not, can he do that? Last season he obviously couldn't too often

2.) What happens if the defense decides to play a zone? Do the Knicks have enough fire power to punish a defense concentrating its effort in the "power zone" around Eddie or Zach?

I think this is the main problem the Knicks are going to have next year. The big guys might be ideal for set play, but the perimeter players are ideal for fast break basketball and 'penetrate and pitch'. So the question (at least from my point of view) isn't so much whether Zach and Eddie can mix, but whether Eddie and Zach can mix with the rest of the team.


Nicely put.

Every team Bigmen will play the Curry & Zach tandem with there best defense to make a point. And it will be a Zone-Defense.
Which means the shot clock will be under 10 seconds the majority of the time Curry or Zach receive the ball, unless one comes up to the top of the foul line to receive the ball.


Everyone wants Curry & Zach to be the open season starters.
Well, I hope the two could learn how to mix it up at both ends of the court in just one month.
 
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