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Thread: can eddie and zach mix?

  1. #106
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    Originally Posted by donchris
    True indeed. You did find some questionable stats on the best 50 players in the league. So kudos to you for backing your self up. My point is the argument is pointless. Currently the offense goes through Curry and that may very well change now that we have Randolph, but I doubt it.

    Be realistic. The man improves each year and your best argument is that he turns over the ball and doesn't pass out of double teams? That can be solved in training camp. The fact the he demands a double team is reason enough to make Curry a keeper. You should focus your argument more on the lack of defense from this team all around, not just Curry and Randolph. Some of the best scorers in the league don't play defense.

    Are we sure about this? We can only hope.

  2. #107
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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Just forget about it, its not that important because this forum is about the KNICKS, not me or your emotions.

    I didn't mock anything. I was disappointed because the word "ability" was your argument for why Curry was a top 50 player. When I was read it, I was like wtf? Thats it? Must of been a long tiring day for you brother.

    So this overused logic that Curry can score and demand double teams makes him top 50? If its top 50 of scoring, I would AGREE with you.

    We're talking about top 50 NBA PLAYERS. Meaning man defense, intangibles, turnover ratio, efficiency, passing, shooting, and every other aspect of basketball is included; most things Curry have weaknesses in. Curry doesn't play basketball on defense, I saw him play over 60 games and he was non existent in the majority of the team. He shows zero awareness on defense and looks like a rookie or just not interested. The last time I remember Curry being average on defense was against the Bucks, where he seem like a God that day; hitting 3's and making plays.

    So according to you, Curry is better than defensive player of the year Camby, because Camby doesn't demand double teams? This is why your logic fails in everyday possible. If the top 50 was just based on scoring, we wouldn't see the list we see on NBA.com, my list, and anyone else's list. We would see guys like Crawford, Ronald Murray, Barbosa, etc on that list. When Curry has an improvement in his other attributes; primarily to/ast ratio and defense, or even if his improves his scoring(we've heard he's developing a jumpshot) and average over 22 ppg(19 ppg for a guy who gets the ball as much as Curry isn't spectacular); then Curry would easily fall into the top the 50. But right now Curry is stuck in the 70-75 spot.

    and if you're going to put Curry in the top 50, then you would have to put Marbury and Randolph in there, who are better than Curry and should be ranked higher than Chubbs. Why don't you make your own top 50 list to validate your point. Its like I'm holding your hand and assisting you in this debate, lol. <~ a joke, don't outburst, or write an essay on my age or a silly user title in put in my profile for laughs. Thanks.

    I never brought LIFE, and autism into this. But it will now be forgotten.

    Camby's strengths are rebounding and defending. If you put Camby on Curry one on one, he'd then not be able to help defend nearly as much, and likely foul out. Which would lead to Curry going off for a huge day, while Camby is helpless on the bench. This would be the likely scenario. Now and again, he may have a decent game. If the Curry that played from feb on out shows up in camp and this whole season, even though Camby MAY BE the better overall player, Curry's VALUE would trump his greatly simply because as Good as Camby is, he can't guard Curry. And no one in the league can (Demonstrated when Curry beat up on Shaq and Zo in Miami)

    I bet you the Nuggets would rather have Curry right now that Camby.

    So even though, these guys may have all around better complete games (and most of your list does not by the way) Because of the sheer fact Curry's all around game is coming( best rebounding year for him, most minutes played, and first time assuming the go to guy role) And His size and .... ability make him unstoppable single coverage, makes him more valuable a commodity than most of your list.

    There is no way... with Curry coming off that season of promise where his potential started to take on reality, will a team pass him over for Lamar Odom because Odom can handle, rebound score and defend some. Same for David Lee, Beidriens (sp) and a lot of the others you put ahead of him. Because they simply do not have the presence on the floor that Curry will have.

    I don't have the type of time to think of a top 50 list. But after 15-20, those list are no longer about complete players, they are about players who are very strong in one particular area ( Big Ben D, Gilbert on O examples )

    Therefore, to not have Curry within a top 50 of such a list when it's clear he dominated teams offensively last year (leading the league in pitp is dominance) is a travesty. Especially when you look at his fg % seeing that he scores in volumes at a high percentage rate, meaning a player who needs volume shots but shoots a much worse percentage cannot be as valuable offensively. And... that is a lot of your list. There are many one sided players you had ahead of him... That is a joke. He right now is a very dominant one sided player. But since he is a center, that makes his value go up even further in a league devoid of tons of talent at that position. Hence why I believe he is well within the top 50 of NBA players.


    On another note, Balkman getting hurt sucks.

  3. #108
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    First paragraph had no facts. You just fantasized Curry vs Camby in your mind, which is pretty much type weird.

    Camby > Curry. No comparison. Camby is an all star and a top 3-5 center.

    Its funny because, when Curry got out preformed by Camby and only scored 4 points, we WON.

    But when Curry had 19 points against Camby(but Camby had vastly superior overall stats; 24 points 9 rebounds 7 blocks., we LOST that game by 23 points.

    An example on how "valuable" Curry's scoring is.

    Camby vs Chubby 1

    Chubby
    4 pts
    5 fouls
    3 turnovers
    2 rebounds
    1 assist(impressive)
    (Curry was in foul trouble most of the game because of his vagina-like defense in the interior allowing Carmelo Anthony to drop his feces all over him.)

    Camby
    10 pts
    7 rebs
    4 assist
    2 blks
    0 TO's


    Winner: Camby


    Camby vs Chubby Dos

    Curry
    19 pts
    3 rebs
    0 assist
    4 TO's
    0 blocks

    Camby
    24 pts
    9-11
    9 rebounds
    3 assist
    7 blocks
    1 foul(Camby must of been trying really "hard" to shut down a double team demander like Curry)

    Winner: Camby


    So where the **** are you coming with this imagination of yours that Curry > Camby? Next time come with the facts and stop the dreaming. Camby is the better center, the better bigman and the better overall player. You didn't say ONE THING that makes Curry better than Camby at any of those things except scoring(Funny that Camby outscored Curry head to head this season) Curry has never out preformed Camby in the 06-07 season, head to head, success wise, or stat wise. There are no accounts or records where it can prove Curry > Camby, not ONE. What awards did Eddy relieve in his break year? A happy meal? Camby made all defensive team and won defensive player of the year. I'm actually disappointed that this was your first paragraph, hopefully your next paragraphs aren't as weak as the first.

    You bet me the Nuggets would rather have Curry right now than Camby? I'm down to getting free money. Nuggets are already weak defensively, dropping one of the best defensive players in the NBA for the worst...that sounds very Isiahish. Go on a Nuggets forum and ask them if they would like Curry for Camby.

    Everyone in my list is a better all around player than Curry. I don't think you're understanding what I mean by that.
    Every category COMBINED. PPG, REBS, ASSIST, STLS, BLKS, AST/TO, EFF, etc.

    I'm still waiting for your top 50 list and specific reasons why Curry is better than the players on my list. Everyone on my list has superior efficiency compared to Curry, and provide better overall value.

    A player who's the primary scorer averaging 19 points on almost 4 turnovers doesn't have a dominant presence. It gives a the opposition an advantage, because that is a weak primary scorer. If you compare Curry to other primary scorers, he's at the bottom of the light. With the amount of touches Curry got and the amount of minutes Isiah force fed Curry(even if it hurt our chances to win), all he averaged was 19 points? Mehmet Okur can do better than that, and he wasn't even the primary option in Utah. Curry isn't Shaq or Duncan, he's an oversize Maurice Taylor. You think Mo Taylor would ever be considered a top 50 player, even when he was scoring points for Houston?

    You don't have time? You spent over an hour writing that post, I guess you're write. Probably a slow typer, or thinker or both. If you have trouble this post, imagine the confusion you would go through for a top 50 list. Can you even name 50 players in the NBA? You would have the most laughable top 50 list in the world, especially since you think Curry is better than Camby.


    BTW another fun fact.

    Knicks are 23-35 when we lead the game in points in the paint.

    We're 8-3 when the opposition has 6-11 more points in the paint than us.

    best with points in the paint edge
    Dallas 32-1
    Phoenix 37-8
    Detroit 31-9
    Utah 43-15
    San Antonio 33-12

    worst with points in the paint edge
    Seattle 14-23
    New York 23-35
    Memphis 13-19
    Boston 14-21
    Milwaukee 20-25

  4. #109
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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Everyone in my list is a better all around player than Curry. I don't think you're understanding what I mean by that.
    Every category COMBINED. PPG, REBS, ASSIST, STLS, BLKS, AST/TO, EFF, etc.

    I'm still waiting for your top 50 list and specific reasons why Curry is better than the players on my list. Everyone on my list has superior efficiency compared to Curry, and provide better overall value.

    A player who's the primary scorer averaging 19 points on almost 4 turnovers doesn't have a dominant presence. It gives a the opposition an advantage, because that is a weak primary scorer. If you compare Curry to other primary scorers, he's at the bottom of the light. With the amount of touches Curry got and the amount of minutes Isiah force fed Curry(even if it hurt our chances to win), all he averaged was 19 points? Mehmet Okur can do better than that, and he wasn't even the primary option in Utah. Curry isn't Shaq or Duncan, he's an oversize Maurice Taylor. You think Mo Taylor would ever be considered a top 50 player, even when he was scoring points for Houston?

    You don't have time? You spent over an hour writing that post, I guess you're write. Probably a slow typer, or thinker or both. If you have trouble this post, imagine the confusion you would go through for a top 50 list. Can you even name 50 players in the NBA? You would have the most laughable top 50 list in the world, especially since you think Curry is better than Camby.
    If you are just going to continue to miss the point, no one can help you. You said he is not even a top 50 player based on overall stats. I argued that if all teams were vacant, off of last season, he'd surely be a top 50 pick.

    I don't care how efficient these players on your list are, most of them simply do not hold the same value to a team a center with Curry's strengths does. For that reason alone, regardless of their efficiency, Curry would be picked by SOME NBA team before most of your list.

    That was my whole argument. That he is a top 50 player based on the fact SOME NBA TEAM WOULD PICK HIM IN A RANDOM TEAM DRAFT IF ALL THE TEAMS WERE EMPTY. You disagreed and brought all the stats of these players just to prove a point I'm not arguing. It has been proven time and again, teams will always take the gifted big man if available. Therefore, if all the teams were empty and had a random draft, even with all those known, sexy stats you have out there, and Curry's shortcomings, He would be picked before A LOT OF YOUR LIST.

    Here is your list. I will list before next to the names he would go before in a draft right now.

    Duncan
    Garnett
    James
    Kobe
    Nash
    Wade
    Dirk
    Shaq Before (age)
    Yao
    Boozer
    Bosh
    Arenas
    Brand
    Gasol
    Stoudemire
    Anthony
    Howard Before
    Carter
    Kidd
    McGrady
    Iverson
    Baron Davis Before
    Chris Paul before
    Ray Allen Before
    Paul Pierce before
    Camby before
    Shard Lewis before
    Z.Randolph before
    Okafor before
    Iverson
    Big Ben Wallace before
    J.Johnson before
    Odom before
    J.O'Neil before
    Deron Williams
    Redd before
    Jefferson before
    Butler before
    Artest before
    Iguodala before
    G.Wallace before
    Antawn Jamison before
    Tony P before
    Luol Deng before
    Billups before
    Josh Smith before
    Tyson Chandler before
    Josh Howard before
    Kevin Martin before
    David West before lol... how'd he get here?
    David Lee WAY before
    Brandon Roy WAY before
    Hamilton Way before
    Ginobili Before
    TJ Ford why is he here?
    Andris Biedrins explain this?
    Okur(tie) WHAT?
    Ben Gordon Before.

    He holds more Value because of his potential, and what he has established he can already do. Those guys may now be more complete, but most of those guys have even a remote shot of being as dominant as Curry began to show he can be. You forget that he started the season slowly, then picked up his play from January on to raise his avg from what, 16 or 17 to just about 20 within the same season? I see you post many stats except one I asked for. What was his ppg avg by month? That goes a long way to seeing how much better he got within the season.

    Of all these players on this list, how many can say they led the league in points in the paint, and require constant double teams? I will give you a hint, not 50.

  5. #110
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    Good job on not replying to first half of my post where I totally destroyed any thought you had on Curry > Camby. I would of done the same too.

    If you don't care how efficient each player is, then it shows you lack of ability to comprehend facts. Ignoring the facts doesn't really validate your argument.

    Also, typing your opinion in caps doesn't make it fact either.

    You believe Curry is a better overall player than one of best young big men in the NBA, two rookies of the year, hall of fame players, NBA MVPs and even a better post scorer and everything else in Zach Randolph; this stimulates the lack of general understanding you have of the NBA.

    Dwight Howard can't be dominant like Curry, same with the other guys on the list? (I guess All stars will never be as dominant as the great Curry)
    You can't dominate or make an impact with other aspects of basketball besides scoring in the paint? (Wow, I guess I never seen rebounding or shot blocking or defense or passing have an impact in a game, its all about those points in the paint!)
    The only way to dominate is by scoring in the paint? (Tony Parker should be MVP then)
    Why don't you just come out and say Jerome James is better than Zydrunas or something? or just keep saying what you're saying cause its as silly as saying James is better than Z.


    IF IF IF, silence child. If you want to speak facts you have to be realistic first. Playing in the NBA means you have to face different situations, and you have to adjust to them. You have to spin reality around to make your statements reasonable. Stop trying to spin everything and face reality already. You haven't woke up yet? Curry ranks one of the worst at his positive in defense, turnovers, shot blocking, passing and rebounding. He stinks at most aspects in basketball, and is inferior is most categories compared to elite top 50 NBA players. Thus not making him an elite center, nor a top 50 player. Stop being a spin doctor and laying all this what ifs, your lame fantasies and your false opinions in this thread. Ignoring the facts won't get you anywhere. You failed one again to give me your top 50, explain why Curry > Camby, and why Curry head to head is better than those. I want facts, not what you think. I want to know what you know, which seems very little at this point.

  6. #111
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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Good job on not replying to first half of my post where I totally destroyed any thought you had on Curry > Camby. I would of done the same too.

    If you don't care how efficient each player is, then it shows you lack of ability to comprehend facts. Ignoring the facts doesn't really validate your argument.

    Also, typing your opinion in caps doesn't make it fact either.

    You believe Curry is a better overall player than one of best young big men in the NBA, two rookies of the year, hall of fame players, NBA MVPs and even a better post scorer and everything else in Zach Randolph; this stimulates the lack of general understanding you have of the NBA.

    Dwight Howard can't be dominant like Curry, same with the other guys on the list? (I guess All stars will never be as dominant as the great Curry)
    You can't dominate or make an impact with other aspects of basketball besides scoring in the paint? (Wow, I guess I never seen rebounding or shot blocking or defense or passing have an impact in a game, its all about those points in the paint!)
    The only way to dominate is by scoring in the paint? (Tony Parker should be MVP then)
    Why don't you just come out and say Jerome James is better than Zydrunas or something? or just keep saying what you're saying cause its as silly as saying James is better than Z.


    IF IF IF, silence child. If you want to speak facts you have to be realistic first. Playing in the NBA means you have to face different situations, and you have to adjust to them. You have to spin reality around to make your statements reasonable. Stop trying to spin everything and face reality already. You haven't woke up yet? Curry ranks one of the worst at his positive in defense, turnovers, shot blocking, passing and rebounding. He stinks at most aspects in basketball, and is inferior is most categories compared to elite top 50 NBA players. Thus not making him an elite center, nor a top 50 player. Stop being a spin doctor and laying all this what ifs, your lame fantasies and your false opinions in this thread. Ignoring the facts won't get you anywhere. You failed one again to give me your top 50, explain why Curry > Camby, and why Curry head to head is better than those. I want facts, not what you think. I want to know what you know, which seems very little at this point.

    LMAO... Boy.. do you skip words when you read youngan? I don't care about overall. That is you.

    Simple truth is this, all those players may be in your mind better... overall players. Even if that were true, if the league had an open draft ... based off last year, Eddie Curry would be a top 50 pick. Forwards come dime a dozen, guards do too. Centers like Curry, not often. He blatantly overwhelms people. That is why he would be a top 50 pick, therefore making him a top 50 player.

    Period.

  7. #112
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    "Flawless victory you dudes can't do **** to me
    Physically lyrically hypothetically realistically"

  8. #113
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    I've been reading this arguement and I would just like to say a few things. I love Camby's game and would love to have his defencive prowless on the Knicks (again) cause we have no bigs that play good D , but I would also say on just size,quickness,position played and offencive ability Curry would have to be in the top 50. He could average 30pts. 12reb. 1blk. and a few assists passing out of double teams a game if he was the one true option on a team. If only he gaines a drive for getting boards and defence like he does look to score. Both Camby and Curry are quick off their feet but it seems that their quicks come on opisite sides of the court Curry on offence Camby on defence. If Curry can put it together on the defensive side of the ball and learn to go after rebounds he will be in the top 10 in the leage forget top 50. ( maby thats a little optamistic )Curry is a beast love him or hate him. Metrocard you sound like all the media when they are bashing K.Brown do you think Eddy is really that bad of a player? Eddy can score with ease on any bigman in the leage one on one thats gotta count for something. As a Knick fan I just hope his defencive ability and desire for rebounding kicks in this year because he definetly has the assets to get it done size,speed,strenth.... determination.( I hope!!!)
    Last edited by OriginalKnickGrandson; Sep 28, 2007 at 08:35.

  9. #114
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    Camby vs Curry 1

    Eddy
    4 pts
    5 fouls
    3 turnovers
    2 rebounds
    1 assist

    Camby
    10 pts
    7 rebs
    4 assist
    2 blks
    0 TO's


    Winner: Camby


    Camby vs Curry Dos

    Curry
    19 pts
    3 rebs
    0 assist
    4 TO's
    0 blocks

    Camby
    24 pts
    9-11
    9 rebounds
    3 assist
    7 blocks
    1 foul

    Winner: Camby


    Where has Curry out played Camby recently? Camby's offensive game isn't that bad. He doesn't need the ball to score or average 4 turnovers a game to produce points. He's very good at cutback players and can hit an open jumper, how do you guys forget Camby's rainbow shot? Camby >>> Curry. Camby is a REAL center, that would answer so many issues we have.


    OriginalKnickGrandson, but I agree with your conclusion. We need Curry's defense to improve.

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    Veteran OriginalKnickGrandson's Avatar
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    Eddy just needs a little Anthony Mason and Charles Oakley mentality injected into his head.(he's got the body already) Nobody would ever even think of driving the lane against the Knicks. He could dominate the leage!!!

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    No doubt...but everyone failed to realize that no one fears Camby night in and night out...when he walks on the floor no one wants to double him. When he walks on the floor, no helpside defense is needed. His jumper is suspect and he's weak in the paint. BUT, his helpside defense is superb and his rebounding is outstanding. But when you have Melo and AI...you can get away with not having a post presence. We on the other hand have no one even close with the offensive abilities of the preceding players I just mentioned. Camby> Curry on a team that doesn't need an offensive low post presence but Curry>Camby when you're on a team that has perimeter defense but no offense to get the W. That is the both sides of the story, the truth...may the true fact dishing begin...

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  13. #118
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    That was good, when almost everyone on here was tryin to argue that Curry is greater then Camby. Alot of them dont come on as much, they lost. Its wasnt close then and its not close now. Curry is a fat piece of **** and I'll be mad if he ever makes an all-star team. He is a one-dimensional player who isnt even that good at that 1 dimension.

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    Classic

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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Classic


    u really r god, u saw the eddy/zach thing not workin, u mite soon be elevated to my status




    god out...

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