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Thread: In Fairness to Last Season

  1. #16
    is the Bo$$ Toons's Avatar
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    How many times did Curry & Frye Start for Coach Brown?

    How many times did brown ever have a consistant lineup? i think that question is a little rhetorical.

  2. #17
    Next season, keep waiting donchris's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    First off the team had a 23 and a 33 WIN season what dynamics are you talking about. True Crawford is the best SG on this team however the co-existing chemistry of SG-Crawford & PF-Lee rarely bring to many double teams on Curry.
    We all watched the last two seasons of Varejao hustling-rebounding for the Cavs over Big-Z and Gooden. And how Kaman just took the Center Job with his hustling-rebounding on the Clippers. The Knicks dont have any 48 minute scorers on this team like Lebron James, Kobe, Carmelo, Iverson, or Brand where you could bring a hustling-rebounder like Lee off the bench. David Lee should play alongside of the Knicks top scorers to rebound and not give oponents a second chance shot.

    By the way I do not think Eddy Curry will be this Knick-Team first or second option on offense this 2007-8 season, maybe the third option when he is positioned right down low. When you have a Center that could pass the ball then you run your offense through your center. Running the offense through No-Passing Eddy Curry for two season resulted in a 23 or 33 WIN season...
    This logic has a fatal flaw. It's based on a single season of play. And what's the criticism? That Curry should take care of the ball and learn to pass out of double teams. Is this not something that can be learned in an off season? Only in your mind will Curry be a third scoring option in this line up. May be that will happen if we land Kobe and Labron but until then Curry is the go to man and every player on this team is on that same page.

  3. #18
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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    First off the team had a 23 and a 33 WIN season what dynamics are you talking about. True Crawford is the best SG on this team however the co-existing chemistry of SG-Crawford & PF-Lee rarely bring to many double teams on Curry.
    We all watched the last two seasons of Varejao hustling-rebounding for the Cavs over Big-Z and Gooden. And how Kaman just took the Center Job with his hustling-rebounding on the Clippers. The Knicks dont have any 48 minute scorers on this team like Lebron James, Kobe, Carmelo, Iverson, or Brand where you could bring a hustling-rebounder like Lee off the bench. David Lee should play alongside of the Knicks top scorers to rebound and not give oponents a second chance shot.

    By the way I do not think Eddy Curry will be this Knick-Team first or second option on offense this 2007-8 season, maybe the third option when he is positioned right down low. When you have a Center that could pass the ball then you run your offense through your center. Running the offense through No-Passing Eddy Curry for two season resulted in a 23 or 33 WIN season...
    I GIVE UP....Let's just go our separate ways. I think you're wrong and you obviously think I'm wrong. Even though I have evidence, facts, and other people's opinions to back up what I have stated. You can't prove a point with opinions...it just can't be done...I'm ready to move on to the next topic...Balkman's playing time...how much is he going to get? And how much should he get?

  4. #19
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    Wazup Toons, Doncris, Roco, and The 1 and Only, Do not get me wrong all of you have some great B-Ball Minds, inwhich I like to converse with because of your positiveness. You guys are loaded with amunition about this Knick Team, I have to admitt.

    When I say things like David Lee should be a STARTER at the beginning of the season it's for a WINNING reason. How-ever we all know POLITICS will put Zach Randolph as the Starter, because David Lee has accepted the 6th Man Role with Pride.

    When I say Eddy Curry should be the third option on offense that is so teams dont pressure Curry throughout the entire season when we have many options on offense like Zach Randolph, Crawford, and Starbury whom need to relax more at the PG a bit and start scoring again to put alot of oponents in foul trouble.

    When I say things about Isiah Thomas Coaching and Trading its for reasons of Isiah not being patient enough to wait for a well worked out plan. Things take time in the majority of cases in life in general. This Knick Team has been speeding for success at a rate of going past the Speed limit and getting stopped all the time for a high rate speeding ticket that slows you back down to take care of that.
    The Knick Team has Success Written all over it, Isiah Thomas picked another future Star-Player for this Knick team in June. I'm waiting patiently to see which one of these rookies will be another Outstanding Player for this team like Lee & Balkman. Thats my most interest right now.

    A) Randolph Morris?
    B) Wilson Chandler?
    C) Demetris Nichols?

  5. #20
    Next season, keep waiting donchris's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    Wazup Toons, Doncris, Roco, and The 1 and Only, Do not get me wrong all of you have some great B-Ball Minds, inwhich I like to converse with because of your positiveness. You guys are loaded with amunition about this Knick Team, I have to admitt.

    When I say things like David Lee should be a STARTER at the beginning of the season it's for a WINNING reason. How-ever we all know POLITICS will put Zach Randolph as the Starter, because David Lee has accepted the 6th Man Role with Pride.

    When I say Eddy Curry should be the third option on offense that is so teams dont pressure Curry throughout the entire season when we have many options on offense like Zach Randolph, Crawford, and Starbury whom need to relax more at the PG a bit and start scoring again to put alot of oponents in foul trouble.

    When I say things about Isiah Thomas Coaching and Trading its for reasons of Isiah not being patient enough to wait for a well worked out plan. Things take time in the majority of cases in life in general. This Knick Team has been speeding for success at a rate of going past the Speed limit and getting stopped all the time for a high rate speeding ticket that slows you back down to take care of that.
    The Knick Team has Success Written all over it, Isiah Thomas picked another future Star-Player for this Knick team in June. I'm waiting patiently to see which one of these rookies will be another Outstanding Player for this team like Lee & Balkman. Thats my most interest right now.

    A) Randolph Morris?
    B) Wilson Chandler?
    C) Demetris Nichols?
    A very rational post. I see and respect your points although some of them I disagree with. Here's the thing, we're talking about New York right? The waiting game has never and will never work. You've got to make some big/impossible promises to Knicks fans. Hide sight is 20/20. Looking back if we let contracts expire we'd be well under the cap and in a much better position. Getting Garnett would have been a cake walk. But how any years would we have sucked and never even come close to the play off level. So I agree that waiting would have been the best, cost efficient option but it wasn't a realistic one. Not in NY.

    If you want to restructure the Knicks then every one must go. A scoring center can't be the third scoring option. Hypothetically if Tim Duncan was less developed, couldn't pass out of double teams and didn't play much defense he would still get the rock because of his scoring ability. His trainers would work all summer with him to improve his game. Hopefully this is what Curry is doing as we post back and forth. You are absolutely correct, Curry should have played in college for at least two years but he didn't, which means he's got to go through on the job training. With out crediting Thomas, lets assume that Chicago did a **** job of developing Curry. What does that give you? A Knicks team with a potentially very talented but underdeveloped center. May be I'd side with you and say Curry should be the 2nd scoring option but behind who, Randolph or Marbury? That is what it will really come down to. Richardson can't stay healthy enough to lead the team. If he does may be that will be a future option, who knows. Crawford is flaky, D. Lee is a great but not enough to put the team on his back. All I'm saying is Curry isn't the greatest player in Knicks history or anything like that but he is our best option or 2nd best option.

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    My BIG Beef with President/Coach Isiah Thomas is 5 coaches in 4 years and giving-up expiring contracts for "Individual Talent Players" that can not form a Team. When those expiring contracts could have been used better by alot of people in this Forum.
    Being a Knick-Fan for 35 years I actually thought Laydumb 4 years was the worst. But Isiah is the worst! Even with all the great draft picks Isiah made Knicks does not make him better than Laydumb. Laydumb gave Isiah 6 expiring contracts in his first season and half as the Knicks G.M., and all 14 players contract expired before Isiah reached his 4th season as the Knicks G.M..

    1) Marbury
    2) Crawford
    3) Q.Richardson
    4) Zach
    5) Curry


    The above Five-Players NBA career showed they are "Individual Talanted Players" inwhich will be the Knicks 5-Starters in the 2007-8 season.
    Q.Richardson has shown the best improvement of playing Team-ball after being coached by Larry Brown for a season. Marbury & Crawford has shown a little change however, all three players still have that "One on One" tendency that are not fully deleted from their talent & skillz. The Knicks coaching staff has a Big Job on their hands at the start of Training-Camp.
    If the Knicks cant get into the swing of WINNING 5 to 7 games straight in a couple of runs this season to become a TEAM, and the best they could do is just WIN 3 straight once or twice this season then the Knicks are just an "Individual Talented" group of guys who beat poor teams or injured teams for the win.

    <TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width=624 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=center>Enough with the jacking of shots in 1-1 play. Distribute the damn ball but do it properly!

    Marbury dribbles up and then stands there looking around before passing to a player who is fully covered and cant do anything with it.

    Crawford does a few AND1 moves and either jacks a terrible shot or whips the ball at a teammate who is covered and then cant do anything with it.

    Neither of these guys know what it means to catch a defense off balance, then hit the OPEN player. Neither knows how to run a motion offense. We're doomed to be a plodding halfcourt team.
    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

    The Five-Players above are "Individual Talent" that does not form a Team. However they are on my Favorite Team I been a Fan of for 35 years.

    What piss me off the most about Marbury & Crawford is that they will dribble the shot clock down to 6 to 4 seconds left and then pass the ball to a teammate that is fully covered. or pass the ball to a non-offensive player like Malik Rose or Jared Jefferies with the shotclock down to 4 or 3 seconds (something Parker or Arenas would never do) and the Knick Coach would never take them out of the game for being so stupid.
    That is not just bad decision-making that is very immature for a veteran guard to do in the NBA.
    I would rather the (so-call) imature Nate Robinson or second-season Marty Collins on the court than Marbury or Crawford if they dont put Team first this season.

    P.S. Ex-Knick Allan Houston hated when Marbury did that to him, and Marbury never got reprimanded by coach Lenny Wilkens for doing this repeatedly.

  7. #22
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    i fully agree with the shot clock issue with marbs n crawford....but our guys need to move without the balll more also...so i partially blame curry for not setting up high and low post screens, frye last year for not setting them effectively, i would say q.rich, but he moved well without the ball last season.....but yeah, it is mostly marbs fault tho, crawford does it too, but not as much as steph

  8. #23
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    Kiyaman is a BEAST...dude should pick up journalism, he comes hard with the facts.

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    Nyk Logo Preparation from coaching staff

    Sitting inside the Garden a hour before the games, you will see Assistant Coach Mark Aquire and Curry on the court practicing before the game. When they get finish and leave the court you would see second season Nate Robinson the first one running out on the court to get some practice shots in with Frye, Lee, and Balkman. With Nate doing alot of Horse routines with his teammates.
    Whats wrong with the picture above?

    1) Favoriticism to just Eddy Curry when the starting Tandem of Curry & Frye was not getting defensive rebounds together, and passing to each other downlow, or passing the ball backout. If anything the two players Curry & Frye should've been practicing together before every game with assistant coach Mark Aquire and one of the Knicks guards.

    2) The backcourt Guards of Marbury, Francis, and Crawford was not successful in sharing the ball with their scoring bigmen on offense to have the Knicks one of the top 5 teams leading in assist made last season. So the so-call imature Nate Robinson being the first one on the court to practice before the game without any of the other veteran guards with him to get their passing-game accurate with Curry and Balkman defending the passing lanes to get a blockshot was poor assistant coaching on Isiah Thomas part reminding me of the past Chicago Bulls frontcourt "Individual Talent" play that made them a consecutive LOTTERY Team each season.

    3) Having tickets for the Boston Celtics game at the Garden this season and getting to the Garden a hour before the game to see if the Knicks have a set PLAN for this ALL-STAR Celtics team where they come out practicing this plan with certain players before the game start will show us Knick-Fans if they been getting prepared for the Winning teams in their Division.
    If the Knicks dont show any preperation for the teams in their Division like they did last season then we Knick-Fans know what to expect from this Knick Team in the upcomming season from the overall teams in the league.

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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    Sitting inside the Garden a hour before the games, you will see Assistant Coach Mark Aquire and Curry on the court practicing before the game. When they get finish and leave the court you would see second season Nate Robinson the first one running out on the court to get some practice shots in with Frye, Lee, and Balkman. With Nate doing alot of Horse routines with his teammates.
    Whats wrong with the picture above?

    1) Favoriticism to just Eddy Curry when the starting Tandem of Curry & Frye was not getting defensive rebounds together, and passing to each other downlow, or passing the ball backout. If anything the two players Curry & Frye should've been practicing together before every game with assistant coach Mark Aquire and one of the Knicks guards.

    2) The backcourt Guards of Marbury, Francis, and Crawford was not successful in sharing the ball with their scoring bigmen on offense to have the Knicks one of the top 5 teams leading in assist made last season. So the so-call imature Nate Robinson being the first one on the court to practice before the game without any of the other veteran guards with him to get their passing-game accurate with Curry and Balkman defending the passing lanes to get a blockshot was poor assistant coaching on Isiah Thomas part reminding me of the past Chicago Bulls frontcourt "Individual Talent" play that made them a consecutive LOTTERY Team each season.

    3) Having tickets for the Boston Celtics game at the Garden this season and getting to the Garden a hour before the game to see if the Knicks have a set PLAN for this ALL-STAR Celtics team where they come out practicing this plan with certain players before the game start will show us Knick-Fans if they been getting prepared for the Winning teams in their Division.
    If the Knicks dont show any preperation for the teams in their Division like they did last season then we Knick-Fans know what to expect from this Knick Team in the upcomming season from the overall teams in the league.
    1) I can't really understand what you're saying here. My interpretation is that they weren't efficient in rebounding the ball defensively when they were on the court together, couldn't pass the ball to each other, or out of the post. Now, when you say that they couldn't pass out of the post, I can see what you're saying, but to look at it everything you said a general sense, all I can say is that you don't solve those issues simply by practicing it right before a game. This is something that you should work on repeatedly during those practices on non-game days. I'm not saying that practicing that before a game is wrong, but you just don't solve it by telling Aguirre to work on that before a game. Plus, don't you think it'd be better effectively practiced when they're running scrimmages, something that they can't do right before a game?

    We can definitely get better and more efficient. We have Eddy Curry, Zach Randolph, David Lee, and Malik Rose going at it during the practices. Malik Rose is a workhorse, and Randolph and Lee are both 10 boards a game players. I can reasonably expect that they'll make each other work hard. Curry, Malik, and Lee have vouched for Isiah, and I know that they're not going to give him lackluster effort. Passing out of double teams is a skill that can be worked on. Last season, Curry was finally a consistent focal point on offense, and his struggles to pass out of a double team is an expected growing pain en route to positive development. I EXPECT him to work harder and get BETTER.

    2) So the concern here is post-entry passes from our guards. We were not consistently efficient in this area last season, and it was one of our sources of turnovers. Again, I'm sure they go through the motions during practices, but again, you don't judge it just by what you see them doing right before a game. Renaldo Balkman is not a guy who you'd expect night-in and night-out to guard centers, much less Eddy Curry who weighs nearly 70-80 pounds more than him. They also have Renaldo guarding the passing lanes during scrimmages too. Also, there are other big-men oriented teams who weren't in the top 5 in assists per game. You say that our guards didn't share the ball with our scoring big man, but Curry ended up being our leading scorer.

    3) I'm not keen on making assumptioins of practice efficiency just by watching the shootaround. I mean, it's SHOOTAROUND. You're not going to find many teams who hold full practices immediate before a game.

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    That is the POINT. It looked like the Knicks never practice with a strategy to outwitt their next upcomming oponents, be it Philly or Spurs their was never an isolation strategy play made in practice on certain oponents.
    Where you would see certain teammates going over certain things together while in a shoot around to get the feel of the strategy they will be going through.
    I never seen any type of Preparation in the Knicks performance for any team in the league. That is why the Knicks losses were in huge double digits. The Knick players did not have a clue of the majority of their oponents the last 3 seasons.

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    Teams don't necessarily practice strategy during the shootaround. When you talk about certain teammates, who have you seen?

    Our problem last season was consistency as a team. We'd beat quality opponents and lose the games that we should've won. Are you saying that when we won games, our players would talk a lot during shootaround to discuss strategy?

    Again, there's nothing wrong with going over strategy, but I've never heard ofthat being associated with a pre-game shootaround. You don't just judge their preparation on what you saw them doing at shootaround. It's as simple as that.

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    Nyk Logo Exactly

    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    That is the POINT. It looked like the Knicks never practice with a strategy to outwitt their next upcomming oponents, be it Philly or Spurs their was never an isolation strategy play made in practice on certain oponents.
    Where you would see certain teammates going over certain things together while in a shoot around to get the feel of the strategy they will be going through.
    I never seen any type of Preparation in the Knicks performance for any team in the league. That is why the Knicks losses were in huge double digits. The Knick players did not have a clue of the majority of their oponents the last 3 seasons.
    THEY DONT AND THIS IS A BIG PROB FOR THE KNICKS YOU CAN SEE THEY HAVE NO GAME PLAN WHATSOEVER WHEN THEY PLAY ANY TEAM. AND THEY SHOULD FOR EACH TEAM THEY PLAY CAUSE EVERYTEAM IN THE LEAGUE IS BETTER THEN THEY WERE. WE ALSO NEED TO START PLAYING LIKE A TEAM. YEAH EACH OF OUT STARTING 5 PLAYERS DO HAVE INDIVIDUAL TALENTS BUT ITS THE RESPONSIBLILTY OF THE COACH TO SAY HEY WE NEED TO PLAY TOGETHER. AND IF YOU WATCHED THE USA TEAM THIS YEAR IT CAN BE DONE ITS NOT IMPOSSIBLE. ISAIAH NEEDS TO BREAK THERE EGOS LIKE HE DID TO MARBURY AND MAKE THIS THING WORK


  14. #29
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    Originally Posted by Roco
    Teams don't necessarily practice strategy during the shootaround. When you talk about certain teammates, who have you seen?

    Our problem last season was consistency as a team. We'd beat quality opponents and lose the games that we should've won. Are you saying that when we won games, our players would talk a lot during shootaround to discuss strategy?

    Again, there's nothing wrong with going over strategy, but I've never heard ofthat being associated with a pre-game shootaround. You don't just judge their preparation on what you saw them doing at shootaround. It's as simple as that.
    Good teams win games they're suppose to win.

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    Agreed, metro.

    I've expected our Knicks to do that for a long time, and this season, my expectations in terms of winning the winnable games has never been higher.

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