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Thread: In Fairness to Last Season

  1. #31
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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    My BIG Beef with President/Coach Isiah Thomas is 5 coaches in 4 years and giving-up expiring contracts for "Individual Talent Players" that can not form a Team. When those expiring contracts could have been used better by alot of people in this Forum.
    Being a Knick-Fan for 35 years I actually thought Laydumb 4 years was the worst. But Isiah is the worst! Even with all the great draft picks Isiah made Knicks does not make him better than Laydumb. Laydumb gave Isiah 6 expiring contracts in his first season and half as the Knicks G.M., and all 14 players contract expired before Isiah reached his 4th season as the Knicks G.M..

    1) Marbury
    2) Crawford
    3) Q.Richardson
    4) Zach
    5) Curry


    The above Five-Players NBA career showed they are "Individual Talanted Players" inwhich will be the Knicks 5-Starters in the 2007-8 season.
    Q.Richardson has shown the best improvement of playing Team-ball after being coached by Larry Brown for a season. Marbury & Crawford has shown a little change however, all three players still have that "One on One" tendency that are not fully deleted from their talent & skillz. The Knicks coaching staff has a Big Job on their hands at the start of Training-Camp.
    If the Knicks cant get into the swing of WINNING 5 to 7 games straight in a couple of runs this season to become a TEAM, and the best they could do is just WIN 3 straight once or twice this season then the Knicks are just an "Individual Talented" group of guys who beat poor teams or injured teams for the win.

    <table border="1" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="1" width="624"><tbody><tr><td valign="center">Enough with the jacking of shots in 1-1 play. Distribute the damn ball but do it properly!

    Marbury dribbles up and then stands there looking around before passing to a player who is fully covered and cant do anything with it.

    Crawford does a few AND1 moves and either jacks a terrible shot or whips the ball at a teammate who is covered and then cant do anything with it.

    Neither of these guys know what it means to catch a defense off balance, then hit the OPEN player. Neither knows how to run a motion offense. We're doomed to be a plodding halfcourt team.
    </td></tr></tbody></table>

    The Five-Players above are "Individual Talent" that does not form a Team. However they are on my Favorite Team I been a Fan of for 35 years.
    What piss me off the most about Marbury & Crawford is that they will dribble the shot clock down to 6 to 4 seconds left and then pass the ball to a teammate that is fully covered. or pass the ball to a non-offensive player like Malik Rose or Jared Jefferies with the shotclock down to 4 or 3 seconds (something Parker or Arenas would never do) and the Knick Coach would never take them out of the game for being so stupid.
    That is not just bad decision-making that is very immature for a veteran guard to do in the NBA.
    I would rather the (so-call) imature Nate Robinson or second-season Marty Collins on the court than Marbury or Crawford if they dont put Team first this season.

    P.S. Ex-Knick Allan Houston hated when Marbury did that to him, and Marbury never got reprimanded by coach Lenny Wilkens for doing this repeatedly.
    Zeke has made the talent on the roster much better. His issue is having the proper leadership to mold it. Chaney, Wilkins were both jokes. Brown was the marquee name, but not the right fit. Clearly (league record for dif starting lineups was ridiculous)

    Far as team players, I have to again disagree. Marbury is branded selfish because he is always the best player on his team. Meaning he takes all the criticism when things fail. And usually had to shoulder the scoring load. Everyone forgets when he played with good talent (phx) he helped them win 53 games. No one was calling him selfish Steph then. And for the life of me... can someone super intelligent ( Metro the best poster on Knicksonline.com maybe ) Tell me how a man who avg 20 and 8 his whole career just about can be labeled selfish? 8 dimes a year would be a career year for most pg's in the league, Steph does this year in and out off the bus. Does anyone remember that ultra talented team he played on in NJ? On top of that, he more than any other player on the team last year sacrificed his game for the betterment of the team. And it kills me even more as a Knick fan being that it's Walt Clyde and Steph 1 and 2 in Knick history at pg. And it's not even close. Fans act like we have this great pg heritage to gauge Steph's play on lol... NY'ers. But this is an opinion forum.

    Q-rich has always been a good team guy, even with the Clips, but especially phx. Then he comes here and has to change his game around, and does without an issue. Possibly our best all around player besides Steph. Again, opinion forum.

    Zach was a one man gang in Portland and they were garbage for years, so he will unfairly get the ballhogging, selfish teammate label simply for being the crown jewel of a franchise devoid of such. Though, not one coach ever calls him a selfish teammate during practice, and say he works harder than anyone. Even in Portland. It's personal baggage that scares most. But we are talking ON THE FLOOR, correct? I say give him a shot here before we gauge his play somewhere in a diff system. Opinion forum.

    Curry needed the most improvement last year, and made the most on the team. By far. Can't call him an individual or team player based off of one pretty good season. He looked like a first year player from college a lot last year. Bad out of double teams, rare hustle on d and lacked fire on the boards for a man his size. But ran the floor well, took on the role of being "the go to guy* for the first time in his career. If he improves on the defensive end, sky is the limit for this team. But I would at best have a wait and see for him. He is the most important player on the team. Opinion forum.

    Crawford is the biggest enigma. If he plays how he did from dec on all season, he will be a flat out star. Finally learned to harness the and1 mentality and play within the system. You are going off of his career worth of blunders. But life in all walks is what have you done lately. Last we saw him, he was playing very, very well. And within the team game. But who knows with him. I'm personally an optimist by nature. Plus it's my team, so I hope his play was from becoming level headed, and not some fluke. Jury is out on Him, Curry and Zach.

    Opinion forum.

  2. #32
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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Zeke has made the talent on the roster much better. His issue is having the proper leadership to mold it. Chaney, Wilkins were both jokes. Brown was the marquee name, but not the right fit. Clearly (league record for dif starting lineups was ridiculous)

    Far as team players, I have to again disagree. Marbury is branded selfish because he is always the best player on his team. Meaning he takes all the criticism when things fail. And usually had to shoulder the scoring load. Everyone forgets when he played with good talent (phx) he helped them win 53 games. No one was calling him selfish Steph then. And for the life of me... can someone super intelligent ( Metro the best poster on Knicksonline.com maybe ) Tell me how a man who avg 20 and 8 his whole career just about can be labeled selfish? 8 dimes a year would be a career year for most pg's in the league, Steph does this year in and out off the bus. Does anyone remember that ultra talented team he played on in NJ? On top of that, he more than any other player on the team last year sacrificed his game for the betterment of the team. And it kills me even more as a Knick fan being that it's Walt Clyde and Steph 1 and 2 in Knick history at pg. And it's not even close. Fans act like we have this great pg heritage to gauge Steph's play on lol... NY'ers. But this is an opinion forum.

    Q-rich has always been a good team guy, even with the Clips, but especially phx. Then he comes here and has to change his game around, and does without an issue. Possibly our best all around player besides Steph. Again, opinion forum.

    Zach was a one man gang in Portland and they were garbage for years, so he will unfairly get the ballhogging, selfish teammate label simply for being the crown jewel of a franchise devoid of such. Though, not one coach ever calls him a selfish teammate during practice, and say he works harder than anyone. Even in Portland. It's personal baggage that scares most. But we are talking ON THE FLOOR, correct? I say give him a shot here before we gauge his play somewhere in a diff system. Opinion forum.

    Curry needed the most improvement last year, and made the most on the team. By far. Can't call him an individual or team player based off of one pretty good season. He looked like a first year player from college a lot last year. Bad out of double teams, rare hustle on d and lacked fire on the boards for a man his size. But ran the floor well, took on the role of being "the go to guy* for the first time in his career. If he improves on the defensive end, sky is the limit for this team. But I would at best have a wait and see for him. He is the most important player on the team. Opinion forum.

    Crawford is the biggest enigma. If he plays how he did from dec on all season, he will be a flat out star. Finally learned to harness the and1 mentality and play within the system. You are going off of his career worth of blunders. But life in all walks is what have you done lately. Last we saw him, he was playing very, very well. And within the team game. But who knows with him. I'm personally an optimist by nature. Plus it's my team, so I hope his play was from becoming level headed, and not some fluke. Jury is out on Him, Curry and Zach.

    Opinion forum.
    The only thing you just did was approve these guys NBA career as an "Individual Talent" on each of their previous teams.
    You could have some very poor players on your team in any league but if you and those players team-up TOGETHER on offense and defense your team of poor players will WIN more games than you believe.

    Individual Talents get you in the NBA, but Team-Ball makes you a Champion in the NBA.

  3. #33
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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    Individual Talents get you in the NBA, but Team-Ball makes you a Champion in the NBA.
    This quote is true...but an individual talent and a team talent is all about personal perception. When Isiah became the GM of this team, the first thing we needed was an identity...a franchise player. H20 needed a sidekick, a threat beside him. So what does Zeke do? He gets Starbury, an all-star point guard that can dish and score. Then we needed a big-man...some sort of inside post presence. Eddy Curry was his choice after signing Jerome James. We needed a 3-pt threat from the outside....we traded for Q-Rich. Jamal Crawford was initially picked up to back up H20 but we all know what happened. Zach Randolph was traded to keep double teams off of Curry. Also pick up the slack on the boards. And Isiah surrounded this talent with young talent for a youth movement. So that sounds like a plan to me and it also sounds as if he got what we needed instead of what we wanted. You see individual talents...I see specialists with extra skills. Call it what you will...your excuse of "individual talents" isn't the reason we're losing...it's because we play no defense and our team chemistry is usually awful and the cherry on top is the turnovers. "Individual Talents" is far from the reason that we are losing.

  4. #34
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    i dont think kiyaman gives credit to isiah for last season....we barely missed the playoffs last season......we lost about 10 games due to a depleated roster, and we lost another 10-15 games by less than 10 points....we lost a lot of close games because of the doubles on eddy, and fry's poor shooting....we won a lot of games with our turnovers...

  5. #35
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    also q.rich's injury changed our game a lot too, so did lee's, crawfords and marbury's...also francis was too streaky
    isiah cant solve every problem in one offseason....we are quietly rebuilding our team....we aremore renovating than rebuillding, and u gatta give zeke his credit for his work so far....next season when artest is onthe table, and more money comesoff the salary, we will b contenders for the years to come

  6. #36
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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    The only thing you just did was approve these guys NBA career as an "Individual Talent" on each of their previous teams.
    You could have some very poor players on your team in any league but if you and those players team-up TOGETHER on offense and defense your team of poor players will WIN more games than you believe.

    Individual Talents get you in the NBA, but Team-Ball makes you a Champion in the NBA.
    You said all these guys are not team players, and no one was saying these things about Steph and Q when they were on winning teams.

    The others you can build a case about. Steph and Q I disagree that they are not team players.

  7. #37
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    Originally Posted by Toons
    u cud b right dogg, im juss sayin i dont remember it, an i really dont feel like doin knick research....im lookin more to the future ya dig?
    and about ya david lee posts, hey i like d.lee as much as any other guy, but we need to get randolph and curry meshing as soon as possible. I dont know about u, but when players play in a all star game, do u ever see people stressing over if 5 superstars can play well together? look at team usa....i think the better the team, the better the player.....i play basketball...and when i have a good team, i play better. IMO
    Every Knick-fan wants the Curry & Zach tandem to start meshing ASAP, what people are not looking at is these two young imature millionairs dont give a ..... about meshing together this entire offseason.
    What other players have Curry or Zach really meshed with before, and if they did mesh with another bigman how long did it take for them to play together as one?

    It will take these two stuborn selfish players Curry & Zach about a season or two to put some chemistry together on both sides of the court. Maybe this season the two will be able to get their Offense meshing together (Maybe), but on the defensive side of the court it will take these two players some seasons and offseasons together.

    Now what makes this guy David Lee such a Big Fan favorite in New York and at the Rookie/Sophmore game?
    The samething that will make NBA Teams give him such a high expensive contract inwhich the Knicks will not match this offer when David Lee becomes a FA.

    David Lee is the Best BIGMAN on the Knicks Roster!
    He can play both sides of the court at a fast-pace running game or a slow halfcourt setting. His rebounding is outstanding on both Glasses. His Passing abiltiues show great court awareness. But the best part of his game is he makes his teammates talents better (and to do that on this Knick team when all the PG we had cant, says David Lee is an "All-Around-Player".).

    Toon, you have Players that made the All-Star Team, or made the USA Team and showed a certain personality inwhich they will never make it back to either. And I'm sure you recall some of these players.

  8. #38
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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    David Lee is the Best BIGMAN on the Knicks Roster!
    Yes!!! KIYA MAN FOR 3!!1111

  9. #39
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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    David Lee is the Best BIGMAN on the Knicks Roster!
    He can play both sides of the court at a fast-pace running game or a slow halfcourt setting. His rebounding is outstanding on both Glasses. His Passing abiltiues show great court awareness. But the best part of his game is he makes his teammates talents better (and to do that on this Knick team when all the PG we had cant, says David Lee is an "All-Around-Player".).
    You knick pessimists kill yourselves with outrageous statements such as these...do you personally think that david lee is better than Zach Randolph? David Lee doesn't have a jump shot yet and the same biased words come out your mouth. It's possible that D. Lee will be better than Z-Bo and Curry in the future...but right now...no he is not. He's an energy guy who crashes the boards like a mad man and has mediocre defense...similar to the like of balkman except balkman acutally moves his feet on D. He is our third best big guy. Simple as that...

  10. #40
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    Originally Posted by The 1 and Only
    You knick pessimists kill yourselves with outrageous statements such as these...do you personally think that david lee is better than Zach Randolph? David Lee doesn't have a jump shot yet and the same biased words come out your mouth. It's possible that D. Lee will be better than Z-Bo and Curry in the future...but right now...no he is not. He's an energy guy who crashes the boards like a mad man and has mediocre defense...similar to the like of balkman except balkman acutally moves his feet on D. He is our third best big guy. Simple as that...

    I was just going to say... Balkman does everything that Lee does and will be the better much player based on his defensive prowess. He is the third best all around player on the team.

    And I think the Knicks will keep Lee.

  11. #41
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    Nyk Logo Finally

    SOMEON WITH SOME BASKETBALL KNOWLEDGE. BALKMAN IS THE BETTER PLAYER HES ALL AROUND BETTER THEN LEE. I THINK WE SHOULD GET RID OF LEE WHILE HIS PRICE TAG IS SO HIGH AND GET A QUALITY PLAYER FOR HIM. WE STILL HAVE BALKMAN WHO PLAYS BETTER D AND COULD SCORE. WHAT EVER HAPPEND WITH THE ARTEST THING IM WAITING THAT WOULD BE A GOOD WAY TO GET ARTEST FOR WHAT I BELEIVE WILL BE CHEAP GIVE UP LEE.


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    Originally Posted by NYC-BOY
    SOMEON WITH SOME BASKETBALL KNOWLEDGE. BALKMAN IS THE BETTER PLAYER HES ALL AROUND BETTER THEN LEE. I THINK WE SHOULD GET RID OF LEE WHILE HIS PRICE TAG IS SO HIGH AND GET A QUALITY PLAYER FOR HIM. WE STILL HAVE BALKMAN WHO PLAYS BETTER D AND COULD SCORE. WHAT EVER HAPPEND WITH THE ARTEST THING IM WAITING THAT WOULD BE A GOOD WAY TO GET ARTEST FOR WHAT I BELEIVE WILL BE CHEAP GIVE UP LEE.

    You obviously didn't watch the NBA last season where David Lee was a beast. David Lee shoots 80% from the FT, great shooting accuracy his jumpshot will come. All he has to improve is his averagedefense and add more offensive skill, and he'll be a complete player.


    I was on your boat on trading Lee for Artest, but after re-watching Balkman, I rather give away Nate, Chandler and other prospects instead of Lee. I just wanna keep Collins, Lee, and Balkman. They're our most important pieces for success.

  13. #43
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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    My BIG Beef with President/Coach Isiah Thomas is 5 coaches in 4 years and giving-up expiring contracts for "Individual Talent Players" that can not form a Team. When those expiring contracts could have been used better by alot of people in this Forum.
    Being a Knick-Fan for 35 years I actually thought Laydumb 4 years was the worst. But Isiah is the worst! Even with all the great draft picks Isiah made Knicks does not make him better than Laydumb. Laydumb gave Isiah 6 expiring contracts in his first season and half as the Knicks G.M., and all 14 players contract expired before Isiah reached his 4th season as the Knicks G.M..

    1) Marbury
    2) Crawford
    3) Q.Richardson
    4) Zach
    5) Curry


    The above Five-Players NBA career showed they are "Individual Talanted Players" inwhich will be the Knicks 5-Starters in the 2007-8 season.
    Q.Richardson has shown the best improvement of playing Team-ball after being coached by Larry Brown for a season. Marbury & Crawford has shown a little change however, all three players still have that "One on One" tendency that are not fully deleted from their talent & skillz. The Knicks coaching staff has a Big Job on their hands at the start of Training-Camp.
    If the Knicks cant get into the swing of WINNING 5 to 7 games straight in a couple of runs this season to become a TEAM, and the best they could do is just WIN 3 straight once or twice this season then the Knicks are just an "Individual Talented" group of guys who beat poor teams or injured teams for the win.

    <TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width=624 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=center>Enough with the jacking of shots in 1-1 play. Distribute the damn ball but do it properly!

    Marbury dribbles up and then stands there looking around before passing to a player who is fully covered and cant do anything with it.

    Crawford does a few AND1 moves and either jacks a terrible shot or whips the ball at a teammate who is covered and then cant do anything with it.

    Neither of these guys know what it means to catch a defense off balance, then hit the OPEN player. Neither knows how to run a motion offense. We're doomed to be a plodding halfcourt team.
    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

    The Five-Players above are "Individual Talent" that does not form a Team. However they are on my Favorite Team I been a Fan of for 35 years.

    What piss me off the most about Marbury & Crawford is that they will dribble the shot clock down to 6 to 4 seconds left and then pass the ball to a teammate that is fully covered. or pass the ball to a non-offensive player like Malik Rose or Jared Jefferies with the shotclock down to 4 or 3 seconds (something Parker or Arenas would never do) and the Knick Coach would never take them out of the game for being so stupid.
    That is not just bad decision-making that is very immature for a veteran guard to do in the NBA.
    I would rather the (so-call) imature Nate Robinson or second-season Marty Collins on the court than Marbury or Crawford if they dont put Team first this season.

    P.S. Ex-Knick Allan Houston hated when Marbury did that to him, and Marbury never got reprimanded by coach Lenny Wilkens for doing this repeatedly.
    Holy ****, this post deserves a double quote.

  14. #44
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    Originally Posted by The 1 and Only
    You knick pessimists kill yourselves with outrageous statements such as these...do you personally think that david lee is better than Zach Randolph? David Lee doesn't have a jump shot yet and the same biased words come out your mouth. It's possible that D. Lee will be better than Z-Bo and Curry in the future...but right now...no he is not. He's an energy guy who crashes the boards like a mad man and has mediocre defense...similar to the like of balkman except balkman acutally moves his feet on D. He is our third best big guy. Simple as that...

    David Lee is the Best BIGMAN on the Knicks Roster!
    As a Team-Player or a co-existing teammate yes, Lee is a chemistry player.

    We are talking about a "TEAM-Player"! Not a Individual Player.
    Players that help their teammates talents better.
    David Lee happen to be the best Complimentary Teammate on the Knicks roster last season.

    Last season watching the Knicks play you seen NO-Chemistry amongst players. Why?
    Because two "Individual Talented" players (Curry & Marbury) got the majority of playingtime so the rest of the Knicks roster had to play along to their song.
    Zach Randolph is a career "Individual Talented" player, thats why Portland gave us him in June.

    If Curry & Marbury had no chemistry last season, what makes anyone think by adding Zach Randolph another player that want to take the most shots on his team will want to decrease his best scoring season by sharing the ball every game so another teammate can claim his scoring fame.

    The Knicks need Team-Players this season that will "CO-EXIST" with their teammates on both ends of the court to make the Post Season games in this Eastern Conference. Cleveland, Chicago, Detroit, Nets, Boston, Toronto, Orlando, Miami.

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    Nyk Logo Sorry I dont wanna give up Nate

    I dont know nate is too good he may not work for us in a half court offense but with our secondary guys he will become the leader of the bench squad he was amazing during the summer league and i believe if we give him up it will hurt us the most with our bench team who can run a muck against many other teams. Or when he goes to a team like the suns or chicago and hes the type of guy who will help them win a championship. Everyone says trade nate but his athleticism and his drive to be a better player is probably one of the reasons we had so many players working out at the msg training site this summer. We need to keep this guy


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