Lost Credibility 'John Hollinger Projected Standings'

donchris

Next season, keep waiting
John Hollinger rangs the Hawks 4 spots above the Knicks. According to Hollinger, the Hawks will have a 42-40 record and the Knicks only a 38-44.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=HollingerForecastIndex0708

I know I'm a Knicks fan but how credible is this analysis? Am I over reacting by saying Hollinger is a duh duh duhhh!

1. Chicago Bulls 55-27 1st in Central

2. Cleveland Cavaliers 54-28 2nd in Central

3. Boston Celtics 51-31 1st in Atlantic

4. Orlando Magic 49-33 1st in Southeast

5. Detroit Pistons 48-34 3rd in Central

6. Miami Heat 43-39 2nd in Southeast

7. Atlanta Hawks 42-40 3rd in Southeast

8. Charlotte Bobcats 40-42 4th in Southeast

T-9. New Jersey Nets 39-43 T-2nd in Atlantic

T-9. Toronto Raptors 39-43 T-2nd in Atlantic

11. New York Knicks 38-44 4th in Atlantic

12. Milwaukee Bucks 35-47 4th in Central

13. Washington Wizards 33-49 5th in Southeast

14. Indiana Pacers 28-54 5th in Central

15. Philadelphia 76ers 21-61 5th in Atlantic
 
Agreed

I just laughed it off. I mean I can't see the Piston being lower than The Celts... lol..

Everyone saying how will Zach and Eddie mesh... they have many more new parts than we do to worry about... Our system is not going to change much at all... Where as they all have to find their niche.


Frye would have gotten more touches had he been more than a shooter. I think Curry and Zach will mesh fine by december they should be playing very well together based on the system.

They play defense, they will be as good as any team in the east... because scoring will not be an issue vs any team.
 

metrocard

Legend
Celtics > Detroit.

Knicks > Miami.

Why is everyone sleeping on the Bobcats? Felton is under the shadows of Chris Paul and Deron Williams, but he will reach the light this season. Dude is a 15 and 9 PG, especially now with J-Rich on the bobcats.

PG - Felton
SG - J-Rich
SF - G-Wall
PF - Hermann
C - Okafor

Thats an excellent starting 5, plus their bench is pretty deep with Carroll, Dudley, Primo, Morrison, May and etc.

Hawks aren't that bad, Horford is going to suprise people, Josh Smith is only improving, and Law is a very polished rookie, plus they got Joe Johnson. If the Williams brothers step it up, they have a very good chance to make it.

Miami is so overrated, its ridiculous. Bobcats have a much better squad than, Bobcats on paper to me look like the best team in the Southeast.

Orlando sucks. Jameer Nelson and Keith Bogans as a backcourt? Good luck with that. BTW, Battie is OUT, so who's their PF? Don't tell me Stan Van Gundy is gonna play Lewis at PF, he's strictly a perimeter player. Magic got a weak bench too, all they have off the bench is Arroyo and Ariza. Losing Darko will hurt them, hopefully for them they can get Webber, who would automatically be the best passer on that team.

Washington is basically the same team.


1. Bulls
2. Cavs
3. Celtics
4. Bobcats
5. Pistons
6. Nets
7. Raptors
8. Knicks or Hawks


The East is so deep, I can't wait till the season starts.
 
This dude is a tard he's got the magic at 4 and the hawks at 7 was he drunk? I do belive the wizards are better than 13 also. Maby not playoff bound but closer than 13. Who does he have winning the championship the sonics?
 
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datruth

Your Best Bet is B Ez
dont really know why miami still ranked high, yes they have dwayne wade but shaq is on a decline
 

donchris

Next season, keep waiting
1. Pistons
2. Cavs
3. Celtics
4. Bulls
5. Heat
6. Knicks
7. Nets
8. Raptors/Bobcats/Bucks/Magic

Can't count out the Pistons or the Cavs because of their track record. I'm not exactly sure where to put the Celtics but they should be in the top five. Can't count out the Heat ether. Nets are the same team and Knicks should be able to handle them.
 

metrocard

Legend
Pistons are declining, we gotta get with the times, this isn't 04-05 anymore. The top two teams in the Central are the Bulls and Cavs, and they'll only get better by each game.


Heat ARE garbage, Shaq is out of shape and still injury prone, when Shaq is out, who does Miami have besides Wade? Walker? lol...they're so ass.

Nets added Magloire, and have Kristic back, added Sean Williams and got more matured Marcus Williams off the bench, where have you been, stuck in 2004-05 still believing Pistons are the beast of the east...how are they the "same"? Just like the Knicks, they improved.
 

donchris

Next season, keep waiting
Pistons are declining, we gotta get with the times, this isn't 04-05 anymore. The top two teams in the Central are the Bulls and Cavs, and they'll only get better by each game.


Heat ARE garbage, Shaq is out of shape and still injury prone, when Shaq is out, who does Miami have besides Wade? Walker? lol...they're so ass.

Nets added Magloire, and have Kristic back, added Sean Williams and got more matured Marcus Williams off the bench, where have you been, stuck in 2004-05 still believing Pistons are the beast of the east...how are they the "same"? Just like the Knicks, they improved.

You are on crack if you think Wade can't bring the Heat to the play offs. Didn't Labron bring the Cavs to the play offs with less help?

Wasn't Detroit #1 in the east last season? Do you honestly thing the Celtics will rank higher that an already established team of championship caliber? Don't believe the hype!

Nets added Magloire who is a questionable nonall-star. Why do you put so much stock in the nonall-star Magloire but shit on Curry in nearly every post. You're better than that Metro. At least be consistent with your crazy rants. Kristic, Kristic, Kristic! Can he stay healthy, can he stop Curry/Randolph? Be for real. Knicks are going to show ESPN writers how much they don't know.

Remember my ranking come play off time.
Take out the Bobcats and add Washington.
 

metrocard

Legend
You must of injected heroine twice today. Heat with Wade weren't that competitive or a threat. Remember they were living at the .500 mark?


Lebron > Wade. Lebron is an excellent defender, but does everything on offense.

That was LAST SEASON, Detroit isn't better than Clevand, nor CHICAGO. Rasheed and Billups are declining, Nazr isn't a competitive starting center. I like Maxiwell off the bench, their bench has potential. But they're no longer the elite team in the East.

Why are you always discrediting the Celtics? Do you know who the hell Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett are? Hall of famers. If Lebron can make out of the the East with Zydrunas, Drew Gooden, Varejao, Eric Snow, Sasha and Larry Hughes...why can't Pierce do it with Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen, James Posey, and Rajon Rando? I hate the Celtics, but theres no denying they got an elite squad.

Alright, you're right. Magloire is on the decline, but he's an improvement; no denying that. Nets had the weakest frontcourt in the NBA last year and they updated. Their best frontcourt player was Moore, now they added Sean Williams, got Krstic back and Magloire. Common sense and logic would be they improved, not stayed the same. All we can hope for is Jason Kidd to get injured so the Nets can stay out of our way.

Washington had their chances and blew it. You need to understand especially being from the area Bobcats got a squad. I want to beat them this season cause they always get the best of us and I hate the fact they rock orange and blue.
 

donchris

Next season, keep waiting
You must of injected heroine twice today. Heat with Wade weren't that competitive or a threat. Remember they were living at the .500 mark?


Lebron > Wade. Lebron is an excellent defender, but does everything on offense.

That was LAST SEASON, Detroit isn't better than Clevand, nor CHICAGO. Rasheed and Billups are declining, Nazr isn't a competitive starting center. I like Maxiwell off the bench, their bench has potential. But they're no longer the elite team in the East.

Why are you always discrediting the Celtics? Do you know who the hell Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett are? Hall of famers. If Lebron can make out of the the East with Zydrunas, Drew Gooden, Varejao, Eric Snow, Sasha and Larry Hughes...why can't Pierce do it with Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen, James Posey, and Rajon Rando? I hate the Celtics, but theres no denying they got an elite squad.

Alright, you're right. Magloire is on the decline, but he's an improvement; no denying that. Nets had the weakest frontcourt in the NBA last year and they updated. Their best frontcourt player was Moore, now they added Sean Williams, got Krstic back and Magloire. Common sense and logic would be they improved, not stayed the same. All we can hope for is Jason Kidd to get injured so the Nets can stay out of our way.

Washington had their chances and blew it. You need to understand especially being from the area Bobcats got a squad. I want to beat them this season cause they always get the best of us and I hate the fact they rock orange and blue.

Here's what you fail to understand. The Pistons are a proven team and proven winning teams should always get higher rankings over unproven teams that look good on paper. The Knicks look great on paper, like a fantasy team almost but that is far from reality. In reality the Celtics are a play off team but not a championship contender. Why? Lack of depth! You can't gut a team for two all-stars and be called elite. Where is there bench? Can Ray Allan stay healthy? This isn't 'He got game'. I'll give the Celtics credit when the win games.

The Heat ranked 4 in last years playoffs. Should they now not make the play offs because the Celtics have KG? Where is the logic in that.

Bobcats beat the Knicks last season not because of how well they played but because of how poorly the Knicks played. You've mentioned this in several posts. Knicks are one of the leagues leaders in turnovers and didn't play much D. Now the Bobcats have J. Richardson who is flaky at best and it was a great move by Golden State to ship him out. He's a liability at this point in his career. Bobcats have improved to the point of may be fighting for that final spot but that's a stretch.

Washington has been a force for the last 3 years and the Bulls are over rated. Ben Wallace is an aging, over paid center with little offensive contributions and Ben Gordon is as flaky as Jamal Crawford. Let's be real, at least five teams in the east have made major improvements and the Bulls aren't one of them. They will make the playoffs but they're far from the best of the east.
 
Ok, Where Do I Start?

<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com
><st1:City w:st=
Chicago</st1:City></ST1:p is going to be a tough team in the East, so I won?t argue that.
<st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:pCleveland</ST1:p</st1:City> is O-V-E-R-R-A-T-E-D. There?s LeBron and a bunch of other guys. Without LeBron, they are a lotte?scratch that, college team! I understand the league wants to fill the void left by Michael, but they?ll have to be content with more than one player to do it, of which LeBron is just one.
As much as I hate to say it, <st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:pBoston</ST1:p</st1:City> is also going to be very tough. It?s not so much that they got 3 marquee players, it?s the players they got! If you?re going to put 3 stars on a team, you can?t argue with these three. A lowpost monster, a slasher and a shooter without range limits. And they?ll all play defense. Tough combination.
You think Disney owns ESPN? Jameer Nelson has the heart of a lion, but he?s 3 feet tall and will be consistently posted up by my sister. Keith Bogans is ? well - Keith Bogans! Let?s try not to get too excited, huh? Take you 35-40 wins and your underachieving status on into off-season.
<st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:pDetroit</ST1:p</st1:City> is always dangerous, but they are slipping. They are basketball-wise enough to be a part of how the East turns out.
<st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:pMiami</ST1:p</st1:City> is a desire (Wade) and an ego (Shaq) away from being a lottery team. They lack talent, depth and coaching. They did Van Gundy dirty and it?ll haunt them. They think Riley will compensate for lack of talent. Welcome to the NBA, boys!
<st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:pAtlanta</ST1:p</st1:City> is definitely up and coming. I like the way they?re going about building their team. I won?t argue with Hollinger?s pick here.
<st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:pCharlotte</ST1:p</st1:City> Bobcats. Boy, does everybody miss <st1:country-region w:st="on"><ST1:pJordan</ST1:p</st1:country-region> so much that they?re willing to prop up his team as well? Their bench just flat sucks. Metrocard, you say on paper the Bobcats look like the best team in the Southeast. I?m assuming that paper is the Charlotte Observer. Morrison & May, ok. <ST1:pDudley</ST1:p, we?ll see. Carroll & Primo, straight trash! Don?t let the Knicks lack of defense against Carroll last year fool you. Unless some part of your game is overwhelming (defense), everybody in the NBA can shoot, so that is not enough to be Sixth Man of the Year. Carroll will be exposed.
I?ll take the Nets, Raptors and Wizards as one subject. I have to agree with Hollinger about their projection. They all lack, to me, the one thing it takes to be a playoff team, assuming the talent is there: heart. Although not so much the Wizards, definitely the Nets & Raptors. The Nets could have taken the <ST1:pAtlantic</ST1:p by storm, but just didn?t seem to want it. The Raptors were playing over their heads, and were soon exposed.
<st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:pMilwaukee</ST1:p</st1:City> is a scary and unpredictable team, so I won?t touch them.
Indiana & Philadelphia have fallen on hard times, and it?ll show this year.
The Knicks are in position to make a statement much like last years NY Jets. They can have a good season and raise expectations for future Knick teams.
This is a get-some-respect year for us.
My prediction: 43-39, 7<SUP>th</SUP> in the East, eliminated in the second round.
 

NYC-BOY

Benchwarmer
I agree

This is a break out year for the Knicks a show the world what New York is about we are winners and need to win now and i beleive Isiah and the rest of the team who wants to keep Isiah is going to do what they have to do to keep this team in order. Besides that Jerome James the rest of the team is busting there asses to become better. Look at Balkman hes shooting the ball with a big ass cast on his foot. Most players like Jerome James would have been sitting on the side line looking stupid his fat ass should just retire. im so upset because hes doing to us what Houstan did sitting around hurt when they should just leave the game. But of course he wants all his money that greedy bastard. He was being over paid the least he should have done was do what we asked him to do and thats play defense most people would try to earn there pay i hope he gets pushed out of the league hes only worth College pay right now lol. Sorry i got a little emotional. The rest of the team is doing so well though. Im hearing that Nichols isnt doing so well and that fred jones is shinning. Is Isiah leeking bull shit or is he trying to boost up how good Fred is so He can Ship Him Out for a big name.

:agreed::gony::beer:
 
You must of injected heroine twice today. Heat with Wade weren't that competitive or a threat. Remember they were living at the .500 mark?


Lebron > Wade. Lebron is an excellent defender, but does everything on offense.

That was LAST SEASON, Detroit isn't better than Clevand, nor CHICAGO. Rasheed and Billups are declining, Nazr isn't a competitive starting center. I like Maxiwell off the bench, their bench has potential. But they're no longer the elite team in the East.

Why are you always discrediting the Celtics? Do you know who the hell Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett are? Hall of famers. If Lebron can make out of the the East with Zydrunas, Drew Gooden, Varejao, Eric Snow, Sasha and Larry Hughes...why can't Pierce do it with Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen, James Posey, and Rajon Rando? I hate the Celtics, but theres no denying they got an elite squad.

Alright, you're right. Magloire is on the decline, but he's an improvement; no denying that. Nets had the weakest frontcourt in the NBA last year and they updated. Their best frontcourt player was Moore, now they added Sean Williams, got Krstic back and Magloire. Common sense and logic would be they improved, not stayed the same. All we can hope for is Jason Kidd to get injured so the Nets can stay out of our way.

Washington had their chances and blew it. You need to understand especially being from the area Bobcats got a squad. I want to beat them this season cause they always get the best of us and I hate the fact they rock orange and blue.

It's clear Detroit is on the decline some, but Im not ready to say that the Celtics will be better just yet. Im not even ready to give the Celts the div based on their moves. Still have to do it on the court. I think we have to credit the Celts when they do it, since we have yet to see it. I think the Nets , if they are healthy , PROBABLY should be the favorites since they have been the most consistent and have played together the longest from the gate. Knicks could very well win the div if they play defense and up to their talent. They flat out have the most talent in the div.


If you wanna put Chicago and Clev ahead of D, I can go with that somewhat ( Still don't think the Bulls quite ready )

One thing that was laughable... was Lebron being an EXCELLENT defender... WORD? What Lebron did you watch? He is probably the best overall player in the league, but not based on his defense. He is an avg defender at best... Especially with his athleticism.

Wade is like 3 times better on defense than Lebron. No exaggeration
 

metrocard

Legend
Steals doesn't mean everything. Wade gets burned by most SG's in the NBA, Lebron is one of the best man to man defenders at his position, and is top 3 in the NBA ppg allowed by opponents.

Watch the NBA first before you even talk about it, thanks.


Where do people come from by saying Cleveland is overrated? They were a very young team, they had Gibson a rookie PG stepping up in the clutch for them, along with another young guys in Sasha and Anderson. Lebron is only getting better, so are those other guys.

Same can be said with Chicago, Charlotte, and Atlanta. These teams are the future of the East with the pieces they have.

The weakest arguement too is how weakly everyone doubts the Celtics.

If I was going to doubt the Celtics the most logical way, it would be injuries. An injury to KG, Pierce or Allen would totally mess them up and the chemistry they're going to try to build this season.

But just because Boston doesn't have the most perfect team made in the history of western civilization doesn't mean they're not the favorites in the Atlantic or a top 3 team. Its pretty much a lock for them, people who don't think Rondo isn't a worthy starting PG need to re-watch Kentucky games and his games last year as a rookie, he can ball head to head with most PG's in the league and is very unselfish, a perfect fit for Boston. Posey and House have history being excellent reserve players. Anyway, its too simple. I'm done with Boston; I just hope KG goes out for the season so their deal can blow up their franchise into pieces.


As for the Knicks, we have a good starting 5 that doesn't compliment each other.

Individually

Marbury = B
Crawford = C+
Richardson = C+
Randolph = B+
Curry = C+

One thing is for sure, we're not going to see a lot of passes out of the paint this season, xept for Lee and Balkman.

The bench
Lee = B-
Balkman = C+
Collins = C
Robinson = C
Jefferies = C
Rose = D
James = F

Ahahaha, i passed out on my bed, forgot to post this.
 

nyKnicks126

Go 1990s New York Knicks!
Seriously this Knicks team has been a real team for some time now. I mean the team only got Zach Randolph and some rookies, there
has not been any REAL big changes around our squad. So with that the Knicks chemistry wise should actually do better, and the Knicks with Zach Randolph will be a offensive force in the EASTERN conference. I tell you that the Knicks this season will be the surpise team. Like last season it was the Raptors. This season the surpise team will most likely be the Knicks. Look at our bench too, we are pretty deep in talent there. Hopefully if the squad is healthy the Knicks should make it to the 8th or 5th spot in the Eastern Confernce. Will they make it out of the first round? Hopefully.The Knicks are a team with youngsters and we should develope our bench into one of the best in the league.
 
Steals doesn't mean everything. Wade gets burned by most SG's in the NBA, Lebron is one of the best man to man defenders at his position, and is top 3 in the NBA ppg allowed by opponents.

Watch the NBA first before you even talk about it, thanks.


I don't say this much to people, but you are a stupid boy.

There is much more to defense than steal. On ball defense, team defense, blocks to name some.

Funny Lebron is supposedly this great brick wall on defense, yet wack Jamal Crawford eats his food whenever he plays him. Everytime.

However, this is Wade vs Lebron. Imma have some fun.

Lebron, 6'8 250, and probably the most gifted pure athlete in sports.
Wade 6'4 216, and next to Iverson, carrying the biggest heart in his sport.


Wade's blocks per game for his career are higher ( saw him punch Kobe twice straight up in a game once ) He has more individual blocks than Lebron 236- 231 in 58 less career starts. Both had runs to the finals. In Wades run, he had 26 blocks in 23 games at 6'4. Add 51 steals to that as well. Brick wall defense Bron? He had 34 steals, and 10 blocks in his 20 game run to the finals in which his team was swept badly. Measure the fact that Wade is usually on the opposing teams best offensive player, while Hughes or Snow usually gets the tough assignments on Cleveland, clearly show how diff the coaching staffs of both teams view the defensive prowess of these two star player.

I watch a lot of NBA son. I also play a lot of chess. seems you like to play checkers....
 

MSGKnickz33

The Gold Mac
Knicks4lyfe
12th man


Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 121
Rep Power: 1

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Quote:
Originally Posted by metrocard
Steals doesn't mean everything. Wade gets burned by most SG's in the NBA, Lebron is one of the best man to man defenders at his position, and is top 3 in the NBA ppg allowed by opponents.

Watch the NBA first before you even talk about it, thanks.


I don't say this much to people, but you are a stupid boy.

There is much more to defense than steal. On ball defense, team defense, blocks to name some.


OK how does this make sense knicks 4lyfe, Metro said that steals dont mean everything and you comeback and say (while trying to son Metro) there is much more on defense then steals. He just said that son, that steals dont mean everything. You then listed stats trying to prove that wades a better defender than lebron. you proved hes better at getttin steals and blocking shots. Man to man defense is not all about statistics (blocks and steals). I'm not sure what you were trying to do.....i think you just dont like Metro son.

As for the East projections, i dont see many BAD teams in the East. I think Atlanta will even be good this year because josh smith is a force on both ends of the court. The only team that i would put money on as being the worst team would be philly.
 
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