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Thread: GAME Thread: New York Knicks @ Cleveland Cavaliers 11/2/07

  1. #61
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    i have no problem with our team if we can trade marbury or crawford because i think were deep enough at the 1 and 2 spot and frankly in terms of defense and unselfishness i would rather see our other guys play (nate, mardy, q, balkman, chandler). however, realistically who is gonna take on marburys contract unless we buy him out and who would want crawford? as a 2 hes undersized and plays ok defense. i guess if a team really needed a shoot first pg they would want him but he has a pretty big salary.

  2. #62
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    The Knicks led most of the game, really outplayed Cleveland with the exception of that 2 minute and change stretch when they hit what was it 4 open 3's. This has got to friggin stop. I can understand a contested 3, but these 3's were wide open. I don't know if it's the defensive scheme or players just being stupid out on the court but that was a disgrace, the reason it was a disgrace was because this was the same **** that killed the knicks last season. With that said, the knicks could have still won the game, IF THEY WOULD HAVE HIT THEIR FRIGGIN FREE THROWS... This is ridiculous... I've never seen a team that sucked at Free throws for such a long time like the Knicks.. i think back to the charles smith game, they missed 15 free throws that game at the time smith was going up for those misses, so yea smith should have dunked that ball down, but because they missed 15 free throws the game was even close to begin with. Same thing goes for last night... Curry didn't hit one free throw? not 1? Nate and Zach missing crucial free throws at the end of the game. IF the knicks could fix those two fixable things, defending the perimeter shot... and Hitting free throws this could be an exciting season

    Now on to the players

    I"ve killed Zach throughout the off season, he had a good game, his turnovers were disgusting, but he did well

    Crawford was the best player on the floor

    Curry's first half was solid, second half he looked winded he didn't have the same energy that he showed in the 1st. loved his pass to Nate for the open 3, hated the fact that he didn't pass the ball to Nate who was open in the corner just a play or two after

    Nate great game off the bench

    Marbury penertrated and did give his teammates some wide open opportunitis, they missed a few opn shots off of marbury passes but his overall game was not good at all

    Q-Rich - not a good game as well

    Lee a good offensive game, surprisingly but besides that wasn't really a david lee performance.

  3. #63
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    Its one game, I'm not putting one game over what I've witness from the 100 previous games I watched these guys.

    Marbury >>>>>>>>>>>>> Nate, by far.

    Crawford will always be Crawford until he has consecutive good games where he proves to me he isn't a liability on defense and with turnovers. Same goes with Curry and Robinson. Guys who are double negatives (Turnovers and defense) need to go if we want to compete.

    We should of dominated that game, let it go easily with same god damn problems we had last year, uncontested 3pt shots. Why the hell you think I'm gonna sit and actually approve of a familiar loss? I'm not down for the repeat of the 06-07 season. I want to see games actually won rather than loss close games and just say "We played okay".

    Blaming it on the free throws...lol, you guys don't remember this? its only been about 6 months since we blame the losses on missed free throws. Face the real problems.


    I'll tell you what though...Randolph has been very pleasing on defense. I wouldn't mind at all focusing this franchise around him instead of Chubby; if Randolph continues to play man to man defense this good.

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    metro i agree 100%, fts are rarely the sole reason you lose a game. its one thing you can chance but it doesnt address the fundamental youre losing in the first place. i agree as well with randolph/curry, and in the lineup thread i wrote the ideal lineup to me is marbury, q and balkman at 2 and 3 depending on matchups, lee and randolph at center. he can play d, pass, and has range that makes the defense spread out. hes big enough to play center in the east i think, and if theres anyway we could find a way to package curry with marbury for either expiring contracts or a player who fits in with our team i think we should do it. unless we would get a pg in return i think nate and mardy are capable of splitting time at the point. nate looked pretty good last night.

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    A team that shoots less than 60 percent from the line and loses by less than 5 points, you would be a fool to think that is not a real issue. These are professionals who have to hit free throws. For people to act blase about this befuddles me.

    People who are saying kick Marbury out this put nate in that are just being foolish, this was just one game, and his offense was pretty decent, like i sated before he did give guys many open looks from his penetration.
    With that said, I do find it funny that metrocard is unable to bring himself to criticize him for his play, and unable to give props to crawford for having the best game by a Knick. That is just amazing

  6. #66
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    Thats not one game its his whole career man, Marbury didn't doesn't and won't ever be successful in the NBA... Successful as to reaching a title...

    True he just got something against Crawford. Maybe cause he is from the Seattle area? Jamal is one of my favorite players. He FINDS and makes plays for others better then Marbury does even though thats not Crawfords role.. Crawford made some nice shots yesterday.

  7. #67
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    20 and 8 is a pretty successful career to me, atleast over your average starting NBA PG.

    and as for reaching a title, I guess by your theory Slava Medvedenko is more successful than Stephon Marbury. Also observing your theory, we don't have any "successful" NBA players.

    I find that false, as an athlete myself, anyone who makes the NBA is successful and respected to me. It takes years of repetition, conditioning, and hard aerobic and anaerobic workouts just to even be considered near the competition level of the NBA. Lets not take credit away from these amazing athletes who are on a level of their own. Making the NBA isn't a piece of cake, and averaging 20 and 8 for most of your NBA career isn't really 2+2 type of stuff. Marbury is one of the most talented guards in the world, but just happened to face a lot of unfortunately fate in his NBA career in terms of winning; 11 different coaches in 9-10 seasons...you get the big picture.

    Marbury plays like a pass first PG and you guys still try to crucify him. Marbury takes twenty shots, he's scoring too much. Marbury passes the ball to everyone, he's being too passive and non productive.

    Mostly everyone at this point is programmed and brainwashed to use Marbury as a scapegoat. I'm not weak enough to fall to this. Marbury played great last season for the Knicks and he's earned my faith as the starting PG for this team that will take us to the playoffs. Nate hasn't had enough consistent games where he hasn't preform adequate to good passing/preventing turnovers/defense like Stephon has.

    Its one game, we should of one. Had the outcome be Knicks victory, most of you wouldn't be venting Marbury's name in this thread. I expected this, but whatever. Theres 81 games left, so we'll just have to turn the page and continue reading.

  8. #68
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    i dont think marbury had an awful game persay but considering who he was going up against head to head he could have done more scoring or creating for teammates.

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    Nyk Logo Alright Now Damn We Should Have Won

    We outplayed Clevelend throught 3 quarters but 3 quarters is never enough. Marbury had a good start and jumped started our offense he still has a quick step. He just keeps leaving his man open. we have to guard against the 3. Im so Glad Isiah sat him down so he can learn from his mistakes i mean after the second 3 marbury should have been all over him like white on rice. Yeah i had to bring it back but seriously those guys are what killed us not lebron. He was gonna get his number regardless but if all those 3's werent made especially in the 4th we would have won.

    I myself hated Crawford at the 2 but at the one damn i love this kid at the 1 for us. he made his shots didnt try to do to much. he drove when he had the chance and passed when he should have. Crawford did a great job at the 1 yesterday and he has been proving himself at that position. give him an entire season and everyone will be surprised i think this kid will be a positive for us in the future. Nate well Nate was Nate everything we expected from the summer league im so glad we kept him on this team.

    Zach well damn he impressed me with his inside game i think since he knew he was going to play with Curry he improved his jump shot he made alot of shots. Need to play a lit harder on D but i cant say he left his guy open very good player very good pick up.

    Curry. had a few moments out there that i didnt like but seriously the way lebron was getting calls if Curry got half of those it would have been fair. Curry was getting beat up. Yet i love the fact he was able to keep his head. and come back and score. I know everyone saw the passing of curry pretty good. We actully have to stop the lobbing passes to zack someone needs to come to the ball

    Q had a Q game he made his 3's i dont know what happend to his inside game i think hes trying to stay healthy and not get hurt.

    Lee Damn lee was posting up looking real good. he needs a jump shot though they know what hes going to do and they double him up all the time. i love his hustl thought did yall see him grad a few rembers right over players hes the man.


  10. #70
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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    I find that false, as an athlete myself, anyone who makes the NBA is successful and respected to me. It takes years of repetition, conditioning, and hard aerobic and anaerobic workouts just to even be considered near the competition level of the NBA. Lets not take credit away from these amazing athletes who are on a level of their own.
    Sorry Metro, but what kind of an argument is this? You bash Curry for being not in shape but not Marbury for losing in the NBA? Don't you think that it also took Curry " years of repetition, conditioning, and hard aerobic and anaerobic workouts just to even be considered near the competition level of the NBA"? The thing is: that is not the point anymore once you are there. I think we all agree that we could never compete with neither Marbury, nor Medvedenko. The point is, does a player bring something to the table that helps the team to win. And whatever Marbury tried to do (wherever he played) he never managed to. This has nothing to do with 20-8 or dishing more. Sometimes it is just attitude, karma or call it what you want. This is most unfortunate for Marbury but he is just not a winner on NBA level. And I am not the type of guy who is going to cheer for him once he hits one game winner. I hated the trade that brought him to NY in the first place. I heard the interviews where he said that everything is going to be different from his previous career because NY is his hometown and stuff. What is different now? Nothing.

  11. #71
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    well theres a lot more guys who can move fast under 6'4 than 7 footers 280+ lbs. just saying... not taking away from either but you cant deny if Curry had been in better shape his whole career he would have been a better player and perhaps matured faster.

  12. #72
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    Originally Posted by pyotrveliky
    well theres a lot more guys who can move fast under 6'4 than 7 footers 280+ lbs. just saying... not taking away from either but you cant deny if Curry had been in better shape his whole career he would have been a better player and perhaps matured faster.
    I agree with you 100%. What I am saying is that you cannot argue that somebody is great because he is in the NBA if the only thing we are doing here is discussing NBA-Basketball. NBA is the frame of reference we are discussing in. Making it into the NBA or not is not up for discussion in this context.
    Last edited by pat; Nov 04, 2007 at 08:28.

  13. #73
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    PGs are the leaders of the team.. Am I correct or no? Negative attitude can kill a team. I mentioned this before. Steph had Garnett he wasn't successful, He had Kenyon Martin he wasn't successful, He had Shawn Marion, Barbosa, and he wasn't successful. Steph is a cancer to teams in the NBA, let him go to Italy and play there.

    Plus those 8 assist you mentioned are not even countable. Cause whenever Marbury passes to Crawford, Curry, Robinson, they shoot contested shots, and that isn't setting up plays, or giving easy buckets.

    I didn't say our team isn't a success. I said we need a real PG to actually make it to the title thats all. The Knicks squad is perfectly fine with me, I just think Nate and Mardy should get more minutes..

    Oh Did Marbury practice as hard as Fred Jones, David Lee, Malik Rose, Q Rich, or Nate Robinson over the summer?... No not really. So negative attitude works in the gym too.

    I use to be on Marburys side for the last 3 years, but times as a Knicks fan have changed I clearly see the problem now.

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    Nyk Logo What?

    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Its one game, I'm not putting one game over what I've witness from the 100 previous games I watched these guys.

    Marbury >>>>>>>>>>>>> Nate, by far.

    Crawford will always be Crawford until he has consecutive good games where he proves to me he isn't a liability on defense and with turnovers. Same goes with Curry and Robinson. Guys who are double negatives (Turnovers and defense) need to go if we want to compete.

    We should of dominated that game, let it go easily with same god damn problems we had last year, uncontested 3pt shots. Why the hell you think I'm gonna sit and actually approve of a familiar loss? I'm not down for the repeat of the 06-07 season. I want to see games actually won rather than loss close games and just say "We played okay".

    Blaming it on the free throws...lol, you guys don't remember this? its only been about 6 months since we blame the losses on missed free throws. Face the real problems.


    I'll tell you what though...Randolph has been very pleasing on defense. I wouldn't mind at all focusing this franchise around him instead of Chubby; if Randolph continues to play man to man defense this good.
    Marbury looked bad in one game so far, Crawford looked good, but he looked terrible in several in preseason. Freethrow are a big part of it, along with lack of perimeter d, not able to convert on offense when the pressure was on, Not responding on either side during the cavs 4th qtr run that gave them an 8 point lead. Any NBA team can play good 3qtrs, it's in the 4th when it counts thats the problem.
    Originally Posted by pat
    Sorry Metro, but what kind of an argument is this? You bash Curry for being not in shape but not Marbury for losing in the NBA? Don't you think that it also took Curry " years of repetition, conditioning, and hard aerobic and anaerobic workouts just to even be considered near the competition level of the NBA"? The thing is: that is not the point anymore once you are there. I think we all agree that we could never compete with neither Marbury, nor Medvedenko. The point is, does a player bring something to the table that helps the team to win. And whatever Marbury tried to do (wherever he played) he never managed to. This has nothing to do with 20-8 or dishing more. Sometimes it is just attitude, karma or call it what you want. This is most unfortunate for Marbury but he is just not a winner on NBA level. And I am not the type of guy who is going to cheer for him once he hits one game winner. I hated the trade that brought him to NY in the first place. I heard the interviews where he said that everything is going to be different from his previous career because NY is his hometown and stuff. What is different now? Nothing.
    I agree you can't say you respect marbury or other players just for making it to NBA, then bash guys like crawford and curry. I am by no means a crawford fan and I have my reservations about Curry. But Crawford looked better than marbury. I also am starting to get down on marbury, he has bad attitude, I know he wants to win but, he just has this attitude. I have not given up on Marbury, I think this is his season to prove it. Championships don't make a player successfull, being a main contributor to a championship team, makes you successfull. Being the 12 man off the bench avg 2-3 minutes, doesn't make you successfull. When you get in the rotation and are valuable part of a team that wins, that makes you successfull.

  15. #75
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    jzero what you said is true but we knew when we traded for marbury he would be hogging the majority of minutes at poiint. im glad that isiah isnt afraid to bench him when he slacks on d or plays selfishly on offense as we saw in cleveland. hopefully hell get the message and if he keeps it up isiah will provev a point by playing nate and mardy to show him how he should be playing. ive said it before, if we can package marbury for a kobe deal or even any other deal of closer value, i feel confident splitting pg with nate and mardy. nates matured and has cut down on some of the bad decisions. he passes pretty well and is shooting pretty well. mardy provides a solid defensive presence at point when we need it. im not sure i feel confident wirh fred running our offense right now though.
    noone is arguing that the 4th is the most important quarter but you can still learn about how the team plays overall from the other 3 quarters and i think on offense we have a lot of promise. defense obviously will be our achilles heel unitll guys start putting some old school knick effort out there

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