Blow it the F*CK up! Official Trade Thread

metrocard

Legend
knicklover, theres no question Marbury was playing at the "elite PG" level in his first season for the Knicks.

20 and 9 and a playoff appearance is good, especially compared to what we're seeing now.

This is what I'm trying to get to you, Marbury is well capable playing at a high level; its just a matter of what situation he's in. If he's playing with two out of shape big men who can defend at all and a pussy who can't shoot at SG, you're not going to expect a lot of production because the lack of assets and help for Steph.

Why did we go away from our winning ways and head into a direction that only promised 40 minutes for two losers like Crawford and Curry? This is when the losing started taking place.

We know stupid, we've watched the Knicks before. You're saying nothing new to us. We've seen Curry try to score on 3 people and turnover. This is why Curry needs to be out. He's as bad as a decision maker as Jamal Crawford, basically the Crawford version of the center position. Scores a lot of points, but at a high cost and risk, with inefficient results.

You said they are several reasons why Curry turns the ball over but only named two simple ones. lol, choose your words better.

You're hanging on to the stats too much and not paying enough attention to the games.

If you understood the situation you would Curry does a terrible job getting in position in TIME; he takes a while to get in position and that takes a lot of time from the clock. There are many instances where Curry would have the ball with 5 seconds left on the shot clock and has to force a bad shot.

The reason for this? Curry has been out of shape and is one of the worst conditioned centers in the NBA. The fact that Isiah still starts him is a JOKE.

A REAL COACH would bench his player till he's in shape and ready to ball. Curry should be put on the IR until he conditions himself better and takes basketball more SERIOUSLY.

The fact we're building around this fat slob tells everything about Isiah Thomas. He's trying to lose as many games as possible for the Knicks. Having an out of shape player as your "Franchise" player is the biggest joke in sports. You don't see Kobe Bryant or Kevin Garnett coming into training camp poorly conditioned and out of shape. These guys are the hardest working basketball players in the world; thats why they're so good and thats why they're playing for playoffs teams. They motivated themselves and the TEAM and take LEADERSHIP RESPONSIBILITY making sure the players welly conditionted as they are.

When you have Curry as the main guy, you send a message to the team that conditioning is not important. Look at how bad Randolph and Richardson look, I never seen these two this out of shape.
Curry is not only a cancer on the court, but off the court. He has no passion or interest in being a hard working basketball. He just wants to get by, and this is why Chicago dumped his ass.


Once we get Isiah OUT, the first thing the new GM is going to do is dump Curry; this is another of my prediction that I'm confident enough to say will happened. Curry is the LAST player you want as a Franchise player. I would fight him for being so fat and stealing money. He's not worth his salary, at all.
 

knicklover

Benchwarmer
Metro and MSG

1. I never said you can't win a championship with Marbury at PG, but I have said that IMO he would have to be the 3rd option. I say that because IMO, his game goes down at CRUNCH TIME. That's what seperates winning teams from losing teams at the championship level - Performance UNDER PRESSURE.

2. I agree that Marbury would earn better stats and look a lot better today if he was surrounded by better players. He is hurt by those around him just ike Curry.

3. Personally, I don't think he's top 15 anymore. He was a couple of years ago for sure and was top 5 before that. It wouldn't make much sense to make a list though because we'd just disagree about that too.

He's simply not the player he used to be and he was flawed to begin with because of the tangibles. So when people point to all these wonderful stats in his youth to defend him now, I think they are both failing to understand that stats can be very misleading and that he's not that guy anymore anyway. He's older.

That's not "hating" on him or not "giving him his props" etc.... It's an unbiased view of where we are at the PG position right now. It's not our biggest problem, but it's not a strength at all.

As far as Curry goes, I keep agreeing that he's a flawed player. We are disagreeing about how flawed and how bad.

You seem to recognize that Marbury would do better if he had some better players around him, but fail to appreciate that if we had one decent outside shooter or a defensive PF it would help out Curry a lot.

If we actually had two or three good shooters like most good teams, it would help Curry out tremendously. Plus he is 24. He's not in his 30s and on his way down like Marbury. There's at least some hope that he can improve and get into better condition with a new coaching staff etc....

That's why I feel compelled to defend him. He's not a hopeless case or the worst center around. He's a legitimate 20 and 7 guy that needs some good outside shooting, a tough defensive minded PF along side of him to offset his weaknesses, and a coach that can get his respect and force him to get in shape.

Zach is not that guy at PF. Crawford and Qrich are atrocious outside shooters on too many nights. Marbury is only a mediocre outside shooter and drops a notch at Crunch Time. Isiah is a horror show in every way. That's a formula for maximizing Curry's weaknesses and minimizing his contributions.

In both cases (Marbury and Curry) and am trying to drag you guys to the UNBIASED middle. In one case I am pointing out the weaknesses (Marbury) because you guys refuse to recognize them and in the other I am pointing out the strengths (Curry) because you refuse to acknowledge those.

Curry is not as bad as you guys think and Marbury is not as good as you guys think.
 
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donchris

Next season, keep waiting
Metro and MSG
In both cases (Marbury and Curry) and am trying to drag you guys to the UNBIASED middle. In one case I am pointing out the weaknesses (Marbury) because you guys refuse to recognize them and in the other I am pointing out the strengths (Curry) because you refuse to acknowledge those.

Curry is not as bad as you guys think and Marbury is not as good as you guys think.

This is a good point. We saw that Curry had a good game when Randolph was suspended. May be he's not as bad as every one makes him out to be. He's a low post scorer, that's what we brought him in for right? Did Curry play defense in Chicago? May be Curry and Randolph are both good players but don't mesh together. Marbury on the other hand isn't the point guard that can take us to the promise land. He's the shooting guard that can take us to the promise land.
 

metrocard

Legend
Statement one, you can say the same about Crawford and Curry. They're not good number one options, same with Randolph.

This season, you're right. Marbury isn't top 15 right now.

If we're going to rebuild either Marbury or Curry, we need shooters. Isiah didn't do a good job getting shooters for this team.

But I can't debate anymore, Knickslover laid the facts on the table, dinner was served.

But this thread can't die! I will be back for another debate. Peace.
 

MSGKnickz33

The Gold Mac
Metro and MSG

1. I never said you can't win a championship with Marbury at PG, but I have said that IMO he would have to be the 3rd option. I say that because IMO, his game goes down at CRUNCH TIME. That's what seperates winning teams from losing teams at the championship level - Performance UNDER PRESSURE.

2. I agree that Marbury would earn better stats and look a lot better today if he was surrounded by better players. He is hurt by those around him just ike Curry.

3. Personally, I don't think he's top 15 anymore. He was a couple of years ago for sure and was top 5 before that. It wouldn't make much sense to make a list though because we'd just disagree about that too.

He's simply not the player he used to be and he was flawed to begin with because of the tangibles. So when people point to all these wonderful stats in his youth to defend him now, I think they are both failing to understand that stats can be very misleading and that he's not that guy anymore anyway. He's older.

That's not "hating" on him or not "giving him his props" etc.... It's an unbiased view of where we are at the PG position right now. It's not our biggest problem, but it's not a strength at all.

As far as Curry goes, I keep agreeing that he's a flawed player. We are disagreeing about how flawed and how bad.

You seem to recognize that Marbury would do better if he had some better players around him, but fail to appreciate that if we had one decent outside shooter or a defensive PF it would help out Curry a lot.

In both cases (Marbury and Curry) and am trying to drag you guys to the UNBIASED middle. In one case I am pointing out the weaknesses (Marbury) because you guys refuse to recognize them and in the other I am pointing out the strengths (Curry) because you refuse to acknowledge those.


You cant prove that he doesnt perform well under pressure, I cant prove that he does and only a couple of clutch shots by Marbury come to my head. He hit a 3 against San Antonio to win a game for Pheonix when he played for them and more recently his layup he hit to win the game against the Jazz. You really tryin to prove your point and its annoying me because you keep statin things that were never said. There were games last year where he carried this team on his back and if you watched before his fathers death he was really startin to return to last years form again. You clearly are biased and you have sumthin against Marbury.

Im askin you to name 15 point guards better then Marbury. Im gonna name all the point guards who I think are better then him:

Chauncy Billups
Baron Davis
Jason Kidd
Allen Iverson
Chris Paul
Steve Nash
Deron Williams
Gilbert Arenas

Sorry Tony Parker, if you were on the Knicks you would suck. Some of these players are combo guards who shouldnt even be on this list. I listed 8 point guards. Some might say the following are better then Marbury although I disagree:

Raymond Felton
Kirk Hinrich
Jamaal Tinsley
Jameer Nelson (hell no)
Carlos Arroyo
Andre Miller
Mike Bibby
Jason Williams
TJ Ford
Devin Harris
Tony Parker

I really dont think you watch the Knicks. Im not tryin to point to his youth to defend him, all I gotta do is point to last year and the defense that he played. He kept playing better and better last year until injuries finally caught up with him.

Here are some impressive games from last year:

Dec. 27, 2006 vs Detroit
Marbury-41pts, 8asts
Billups-17pts(3-13)

Jan 5, 2007 vs Seattle
Marbury-28pts(9-17)
Ray Allen-11pts(3-10)

Jan 12
Marbury-28pts

Marbury continued to play well for the rest of January and February. In March, he once again became Starbury

March 2 - 34pts
March 3 - 38pts
March 6 - 40pts
March 14 - 31pts
March 26 - 32pts
March 30 - 43pts
April 4 - 30pts

He scored all these points while playin arguable the best defense of any point guard during this period and settin up his teammates, playin like a true point guard/team player. I believe he also had problems with his knee throughout all of March, why do I remember things like this? Because I actually watch the Knicks. The only person who is biased here would be you, stickin up for Curry. He would not benefit from having a good 3pt shooter on this team because he cant pass out of double teams but you are too biased and you get caught up in the hype.

To quote Shyne, "rather look at the facts and not the hype, Like who got shot and who got knifed." You really came back with nothing worth responding to, I chose to this time but you better come back with something good if you want me to respond again. In some ways, Lilman Bklyn does a better job of arguing his points then you do. Alot of people got bad things to say about Marbury and you like the fool you are listen to them. Go by what you see and watch, not by what you hear. Oh yeah, thats right you dont watch the Knicks. I just educated you. I gave you nothin but facts and you come with bullshit like:

"He's simply not the player he used to be and he was flawed to begin with because of the tangibles. So when people point to all these wonderful stats in his youth to defend him now, I think they are both failing to understand that stats can be very misleading and that he's not that guy anymore anyway. He's older."

This is all bullshit right here and proves you dont watch the Knicks. Saying hes simply not the player he used to be would refer to at least a couple of years ago but I proved that just last year he played better then ever. I recall Knicks legend Walt Clyde Frazier saying that Marbury played the best basketball of his career the second half of last season. I agree with this because not only did he score but he made his teammated better and was nothing short of incredible on defense.

If I was in charge of this website I would have you permanently banned, you dont get facts to prove your biased points. And then you comin at me and Metro callin us biased, man Fuck you. You go with the majority but most of the time the majority is wrong. Dont buy into the bullshit that you hear the analysts like Stephen A Smith say, its all bullshit they just sayin it cuz they know people will listen. Be your own person and have your own opinions.
 

knicklover

Benchwarmer
Msg,

Take a look at the efficiency stats for just guards at NBA.com. They have the stats for the last 4 years available. Last time I looked Marbury was ranked around 50th. I am willing to excuse this year a bit because of his personal problems, but if you look at the trend he has been falling rapidly over the last few years. Granted, stats like these are not perfect, but sometimes they are better than personal opinions when people don't agree because at least there's no emotion involved.
 

MSGKnickz33

The Gold Mac
The 05-06 season was when Larry Brown coached. Not one players on this team stats should be counted from that year. Remember all the different starting lineups from that year? And plus, the only year Im talkin about is last year as in the 06-07 season. You gave him a pass for this year and thats a respectable thing to do. He hasnt had the consistant playing time to get himself going but Im hopin with each game back his conditioning gets better and he starts to play the way he did last year. Back to last year, Walt Clyde Frazier (A hall of famer) repeatedly said throughout the second half of the season that Marbury was playing the best basketball of his career. I dont think the efficiency ratings are accurate, especially with teams that dont have good records. I guess at this point we agree to disagree?
 

MSGKnickz33

The Gold Mac
Msg,

Take a look at the efficiency stats for just guards at NBA.com. They have the stats for the last 4 years available. Last time I looked Marbury was ranked around 50th. I am willing to excuse this year a bit because of his personal problems, but if you look at the trend he has been falling rapidly over the last few years. Granted, stats like these are not perfect, but sometimes they are better than personal opinions when people don't agree because at least there's no emotion involved.

Im lookin at the efficiency stats and Crawford is ahead of several players that he should not be ahead of. I dont like any of these stats, I seen some stats from a website called 82games.com that are worse then these but there are defensive specialists who lock down their opponents without blockin shots and gettin steals. Marbury did a great job of playin defense last year by smothering his opponents and constantly gettin a hand in their faces. You have already lost this battle a couple times, are you going to keep trying and losing or are you finally going to give up? I provided stats that are valid, your stats as you admitted yourself are not reliable.

Wtf are we arguin about anyways?

Marburys defense?
Marburys efficiency?
Marburys top 15 status?
Marburys great play last year?
Marburys offensive capabilites?
Marburys leadership and teamplay?
Marburys ability to perform under pressure?

I think I won most of these battles if not all of them, I laid down the facts and you continue to change the arguement everytime I provided my stats. Even if you come back with a stat to prove one of these questions wrong, I still won almost all of them. Its like winnin a battle but the war has already been won. I think Im done here.
 

hometheaterguy

Knicks Guru
Marbury just needs to be Marbury, shooting guards dont average 8 assists a game. Marbury needs to go back to his roots and do what he did before Larry Clown coached this team and convinced everyone that Marbury is not a point guard. You cant try to coach Marbury, you gotta let him be himself and give him freedom.

How is Marbury suppose to make his teammates better? Steve Nash and Jason Kidd would retire trying to make this group of players better. When your starting 2guard and smallforward cant hit a shot, what do you expect?

I look at Marbury as a point guard. If anyone is a shooting guard in a point guards body that would be the overrated Tony Parker. He is has been molded into the Spurs system but put him on the Knicks and everyone would be wishin we still had Marbury. Parker would average 3 or 4 assists per game and go home everynight and dream about playin in San Antonio again.

Hell, Wilt Chamberline averaged 10 assists one year and he was a center! Assists doesn't define a pg; it's the total game of the player. It's his decision making on the court; how he leads a team and executes a game plan. Marbury lacks the tangibles that make him not only a top notch guard; but a winner! Any team that has Marbury and Iverson will not win unless they are surrounded by so many other players that bring what these guys lack. You can have a guy like Odem on the court with Marbury and what "Starbury" lacks in being a leader Odem would bring so Steph would fall back to doing what he does best; scoring. Again, not to just pick on Marbury and Curry, it is the entire makeup of this team that has them where they are. Isiah is the problem more than any other person! Get rid of him and bring in competent basketball minds and you will see this franchise turn around; until then enjoy being in the basement and the laughing stock of the NBA!!
 

nyKnicks126

Go 1990s New York Knicks!
haha. That was the Wilt Chamberline years.. Players weren't as talented as they are today... Thats why he averaged 10 assists per game... The people around Wilt opponents, and teammates weren't really good. There are exceptions to what I am sayin.

Now the Point guard IS the definition of leadership and ASSISTS... They are the players that need to involve there teammates around them, build leadership, and make everyone on the team better because of one player the point.

Jason Kidd, and Steve Nash are one of the best examples.

Anyway.

Trade Eddy Curry, Jamal Crawford, Z Bo.. and I am sorry to say. Renaldo Balkman ( Great hustle but his value is droppin its a wasted talent thanks to Isiah Thomas, I want this young player to form himself into a great prospect for a different team.. and make himself a potential 15 point, 7 rebound player one day... Of course not in NY. The Knicks play Alien.....Jeffries, or old man Rose... instead of a spark like Balkman.)
I feel bad for the kid. Not gettin any minutes.

Keep. Marbs (contract), Rose (contract), Lee,
 
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knicklover

Benchwarmer
Im lookin at the efficiency stats and Crawford is ahead of several players that he should not be ahead of. I dont like any of these stats, I seen some stats from a website called 82games.com that are worse then these but there are defensive specialists who lock down their opponents without blockin shots and gettin steals. Marbury did a great job of playin defense last year by smothering his opponents and constantly gettin a hand in their faces. You have already lost this battle a couple times, are you going to keep trying and losing or are you finally going to give up? I provided stats that are valid, your stats as you admitted yourself are not reliable.

Wtf are we arguin about anyways?

Marburys defense?
Marburys efficiency?
Marburys top 15 status?
Marburys great play last year?
Marburys offensive capabilites?
Marburys leadership and teamplay?
Marburys ability to perform under pressure?

I think I won most of these battles if not all of them, I laid down the facts and you continue to change the arguement everytime I provided my stats. Even if you come back with a stat to prove one of these questions wrong, I still won almost all of them. Its like winnin a battle but the war has already been won. I think Im done here.

You crack me up.

You won the battles just like Isiah is going to leave a legacy in NY on how to coach and build a team. :teeth:

You point out those stats that make your case and ignore eveything that refutes them even if statistical experts with super high math IQs created the ones you don't like.

Everyone knows that Marbury is not the same player he was 5 years ago despite the fact that he still has great games here or there.

Everyone knows he's not among the leading guards anymore either.

Debating the actual degree of his decline or his actual current ranking is a highly subjective process and a waste of time. No stats are perfect (even the good ones generated by the NBA or 82games), but if they rank you 50th, you can be sure they aren't off by 35.
 
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MSGKnickz33

The Gold Mac
Hell, Wilt Chamberline averaged 10 assists one year and he was a center! Assists doesn't define a pg; it's the total game of the player. It's his decision making on the court; how he leads a team and executes a game plan. Marbury lacks the tangibles that make him not only a top notch guard; but a winner! Any team that has Marbury and Iverson will not win unless they are surrounded by so many other players that bring what these guys lack. You can have a guy like Odem on the court with Marbury and what "Starbury" lacks in being a leader Odem would bring so Steph would fall back to doing what he does best; scoring. Again, not to just pick on Marbury and Curry, it is the entire makeup of this team that has them where they are. Isiah is the problem more than any other person! Get rid of him and bring in competent basketball minds and you will see this franchise turn around; until then enjoy being in the basement and the laughing stock of the NBA!!

Iverson brought Philadelphia to the finals with a bunch of role players. I dont know how anyone can criticize Iverson, this gets me even more mad then hearing Marbury get criticized. He plays his ass off every game through injuries or whatever. Hes still one of the best players in the league. In my opinion anyone who has a problem with Iverson its likely because of his hip hop image and you said both Marbury and Iverson need other talented players around them to win. This tells me that you got a problem with Marburys image as well so Im wasting my time responding to you. I believe that anyone who watched the Knicks last year from January on knows what Marbury is capable of. I agree that the makeup of this team is a huge problem and that Isiah is the biggest problem but I dont respect anything critical you say about marbury.

You crack me up.

You won the battles just like Isiah is going to leave a legacy in NY on how to coach and build a team. :teeth:

You point out those stats that make your case and ignore eveything that refutes them even if statistical experts with super high math IQs created the ones you don't like.

Everyone knows that Marbury is not the same player he was 5 years ago despite the fact that he still has great games here or there.

Everyone knows he's not among the leading guards anymore either.

Debating the actual degree of his decline or his actual current ranking is a highly subjective process and a waste of time. No stats are perfect (even the good ones generated by the NBA or 82games), but if they rank you 50th, you can be sure they aren't off by 35.

I shut down arguement after arguement of yours and those stats clearly suck and they dont include opponents points per game. Marbury didnt start playin well last year until January, if you want me to figure out his averages from January on I will but I think Im wasting my time and your time.

I agree that Marbury is not the same player he was 5 years ago, hes better. Last year was his best year maybe not statistically but he became more of a team player and played excellent on defense.

Hes not among the leading guards anymore, I agree right now but I see him becoming a top 10 point guard again in the near future.

Im gettin tired of saying "you dont even watch the Knicks" but by alot of the things you said I dont think you watch them. If you think Marbury was better 5 years ago then he was last year then you gotta change the channel.

Your efficiency stats were a good last minute effort but this debate is over. Im not sure why I continue to respond to you when you keep comin back with garbage.
 

knicklover

Benchwarmer
Iverson brought Philadelphia to the finals with a bunch of role players. I dont know how anyone can criticize Iverson, this gets me even more mad then hearing Marbury get criticized. He plays his ass off every game through injuries or whatever. Hes still one of the best players in the league. In my opinion anyone who has a problem with Iverson its likely because of his hip hop image and you said both Marbury and Iverson need other talented players around them to win. This tells me that you got a problem with Marburys image as well so Im wasting my time responding to you. I believe that anyone who watched the Knicks last year from January on knows what Marbury is capable of. I agree that the makeup of this team is a huge problem and that Isiah is the biggest problem but I dont respect anything critical you say about marbury.



I shut down arguement after arguement of yours and those stats clearly suck and they dont include opponents points per game. Marbury didnt start playin well last year until January, if you want me to figure out his averages from January on I will but I think Im wasting my time and your time.

I agree that Marbury is not the same player he was 5 years ago, hes better. Last year was his best year maybe not statistically but he became more of a team player and played excellent on defense.

Hes not among the leading guards anymore, I agree right now but I see him becoming a top 10 point guard again in the near future.

Im gettin tired of saying "you dont even watch the Knicks" but by alot of the things you said I dont think you watch them. If you think Marbury was better 5 years ago then he was last year then you gotta change the channel.

Your efficiency stats were a good last minute effort but this debate is over. Im not sure why I continue to respond to you when you keep comin back with garbage.

One of the reasons that Marbury's game seemed to elevate in the second half last year was because we had a number of injuries. He was shooting more and forced to carry more of the offensive load. Marbury is fully capable of averaging 20+ points per game even now, but the Knicks would suck even worse if he did because he is no longer as efficient a player as he used to be. That's what you are missing. THE STATS YOU CHOOSE TO IGNORE PROVE THAT.

Also, in the last few weeks I have contacted several basketball statisticians hoping to find the type of defensive stats you mentioned. I agree they would be very helpful. None are available to the public, but a few teams employ people to calculate them. Something like that will eventually be available on 82games.com.

The best stats available are the efficiency stats because they are at least a very broad measurement, and the +/- stats done by 82games that actually take into account the players you are on the court with.

Guys like Marbury (AND IVERSON for your information) rank lower than the average basketball fan would think. http://www.82games.com/ilardi1.htm

Here's the Knicks for 2006/2007

http://www.82games.com/0607/0607NYK.HTM

Here's the Knicks for 2007/2008 so far

http://www.82games.com/0708/0708NYK.HTM
 
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MSGKnickz33

The Gold Mac
One of the reasons that Marbury's game seemed to elevate in the second half last year was because we had a number of injuries. He was shooting more and forced to carry more of the offensive load. Marbury is fully capable of averaging 20+ points per game even now, but the Knicks would suck even worse if he did because he is no longer as efficient a player as he used to be. That's what you are missing. THE STATS YOU CHOOSE TO IGNORE PROVE THAT.

Also, in the last few weeks I have contacted several basketball statisticians hoping to find the type of defensive stats you mentioned. I agree they would be very helpful. None are available to the public, but a few teams employ people to calculate them. Something like that will eventually be available on 82games.com.

The best stats available are the efficiency stats because they are at least a very broad measurement, and the +/- stats done by 82games that actually take into account the players you are on the court with.

Guys like Marbury (AND IVERSON for your information) rank lower than the average basketball fan would think. http://www.82games.com/ilardi1.htm

Here's the Knicks for 2006/2007

http://www.82games.com/0607/0607NYK.HTM

Here's the Knicks for 2007/2008 so far

http://www.82games.com/0708/0708NYK.HTM

The first website you provided:

Rondo=#16
Chir Paul=#25
Marbury=#48
AmareStoudamire=#72
BrandonRoy=#129
Crawford=#132
Curry=#142
RichardJefferson=#150

Do you expect me to buy this? Check your stats first next time.

Website#2 06-07 Knicks

Somehow Crawford and Curry are ahead of Marbury

Website #3 Current Knicks

Crawford is the 4th most efficient Knick after Morris, Chandler, and Lee?


Marburys field goal % has dropped a little bit from what it was from 98-99 to 05-06 but his 3p fg% is better then ever. He still has way better shooting percentages then Jason Kidd. Tony Parker shoots 29.4% from downtown.

The fact is Marbury has some flaws but what player doesnt. Its not Marburys flaws holdin this team back, its the team, the coach, and the gm holdin this team back.

Efficiency Stats and 82games.com suck, I proved them both to not be valid. You come back with a stupid arguement sayin his fg% is lower, well not by much and at least hes hittin 3's now, sumthin this team really needs.

3P field goal %'s

Jason Williams-34%
Stephon Marbury-38.6%
Mike Bibby-36%(last year, hasnt played a game yet this year)

We'll do it the way you wanted to do it (no homo), fg%'s

Jason Williams-38.8%
Stephon Marbury-41.7%
Mike Bibby-40.4%

How many times do I have to own you? If Marbury was traded for another point guard, it would likely be for white chocolate or Bibby. Bibby hasnt even played yet this year, we dont know what he can even do at this point. Jason Williams is a joke compared to Marbury. Starbury is a better defender then both of these players. I know I keep sayin that Im gonna stop this arguement but time after time you make it too easy for me. Just give up man you got deboed 6 or 7 times and you didnt watch the Knicks last year. Either your racist or your nieve and listen to everything the press says, you obviously got sumthin against Marbury.
 

knicklover

Benchwarmer
MSGKnickz33,

The only thing you own is your very inflated ego. :teeth:

The stats in the first link were from the 2006-2007 season, not this year. That's why some of the rankings (like Jefferson) don't make much sense to you based on the 2007-2008 performances of the players. For example, Jefferson was hurt last year, but is having a career year this year. I gave you that link so you could read how the ratings are calculated. Read the introduction and explanation.

The stats for this year for the Knicks have been calculated based on a more limited sample because the season is in progress. For example, Chandler and Morris have not played enough minutes for their stats to be relevant yet (that's why they look goofy), but that is clear in the table under minutes. As is always the cases with stats, the larger the sample, the more reliable the results. The regular players (starters etc...) have stats that are more representative of the performance of the players this year.

If you happen to not agree with the more relevant ratings, that could easily say more about your opinions than the ratings. The ratings were developed by a statistics expert that is now employed by an NBA team (not a message board fan in love with Marbury).

You should have taken the time to read everything what I was presenting. It's good stuff. I am trying to give you more information on which to base your opinions.

I have no desire to get into a continuing debate with you. I am as confident that I am right as you are. I am simply using the work of a statistical genius in addition to my observations to form my opinion. We are entitled to agree to disagree without getting personal.
 
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OAKLEY RULEZ

Benchwarmer
a team this far under .500 shouldn't have people who r "untouchable" in a trade scenario that could actually improve the team. not anyone of the starters, not anyone on the bench, NO ONE SHOULD B ABOVE A TRADE.


:wallbash:
 

MSGKnickz33

The Gold Mac
i was almost going to post a reply about steve nash... but i won't.. don't want to be branded a 'racist'

I didnt even look at Nash's shooting percentages, I already know the deal. Hes one of the best shooters in the league at the point guard position. I was gonna bring up Deron Williams but hes a much better shooter then I thought.
 
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