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Thread: Blow it the F*CK up! Official Trade Thread

  1. #136
    The Gold Mac MSGKnickz33's Avatar
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    It was kind of like Joe Frazier vs George Foreman


  2. #137
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    Originally Posted by MSGKnickz33
    It was kind of like Joe Frazier vs George Foreman

    or Jorge vs Ray


  3. #138
    The Gold Mac MSGKnickz33's Avatar
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    Bare knuckle boxing now thats what Im talkin about Ray looked like he was gettin tired. Jorge was the better conditioned of the 2 and he had better reflexes and a good jab. That first dude got F*cked up.

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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    His assist go down because his SG shoots 40% and his SF shoots 30% and his PF is a black hole and his turnover prone center takes 7 seconds to get in position and 6 seconds to score.

    Simple.
    You are making valid points about his teamates, but THEY ARE SCORING POINTS DESPITE THEIR WEAKNESSES. Also, Curry was among the highest FG % shooters last year and is doing well again this year. SOMEONE should be accumulating assists on those points regardless of whether they are the most efficient players or not. That's supposed to be the PG.

    Now if you told me that Marbury reduced his scoring role (which he has) and he only kept his assists flat because of the lack of scoring effectiveness of his teamates, that would make some sense. But these guys do score well (Crawford, Curry and Zach) and despite shooting less and having teamates that are scoring well Marbury's assists are going down. That suggests a decline in skill.
    Last edited by knicklover; Jan 11, 2008 at 17:01.

  5. #140
    Cutest Guy Here Kennedy Curse's Avatar
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    wow yo....even that big black dude was there...4got his name...in 6:16...now i know he can deff fight....wow wait hes everywhere lol...but dam yo ray got messed up...u can tell if he would have hit jorge he would have knocked him out but jorge got good reflexes man...c thats exactly y u need good reflexes and good stamina when fighting some1 twice your size

  6. #141

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    Marbury's assists are down for three reasons. First Isiah is a terrible basketball coach who has no idea how to utilize talent. Second a lot of the time Marbury isn't even bringing the ball up the court. Lastly and more importantly his teammates are all one on one players who have no clue how to move without the ball. Assists are created not only by a player breaking down the defense but by his teammates moving to open spots on the floor for quality shots. Marbury's teammates do not move unless they have the ball and thus his assist totals are down.

  7. #142
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    Isiah runs an isolation offense. When Wilkens was here we were using the pick and roll and set plays more often which led to .500 basketball.

    But you're right, Marbury hasn't had a good season so I can't really defend him much as I would like. But I'm glad we all understand the flaws and strengths of this team.


    Originally Posted by thekidd13
    wow yo....even that big black dude was there...4got his name...in 6:16...now i know he can deff fight....wow wait hes everywhere lol...but dam yo ray got messed up...u can tell if he would have hit jorge he would have knocked him out but jorge got good reflexes man...c thats exactly y u need good reflexes and good stamina when fighting some1 twice your size

    Ray is just a REALLY strong dude. You saw that punch he landed out of no where on Jorge? Jorge didn't even see it coming and he fell straight on his ass.

    But Jorge had too much technique and basic boxing skills to lose. He was hitting Ray with accurate punches and kept his stance and stook with his gameplan of countering.

    The guy you saw is Kimbo...he's a monster.

  8. #143
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    Originally Posted by MSGKnickz33
    Knicklover can you read? I said Marburys prime was last year and I admitted his shooting percenteges were not as good as they once were but his 3pt shooting percentages are better then ever. The main thing I wanna see him get credit for is his offense, defense, and team play last year from January to early April when he got hurt. There has been several arguements that I have made backed up by facts that you havent answered.

    Im gonna do the math and figure out the average points allowed month by month that the Knicks as a team allowed. I have said several times throughout the arguement that Marbury started to play THE BEST BASKETBALL OF HIS CAREER IN JANUARY OF 2007. Lets see if my stats back this up.

    November
    117
    102
    109
    105
    107
    103
    100
    102
    82
    76
    122
    97
    107
    101
    106
    102
    98
    Average=1736/17=102.1 points allowed
    December
    108
    103
    90
    113
    107
    97
    82
    112
    123
    96
    109
    92
    98
    145
    108
    90
    Average=1673/16=104.6 points allowed
    January
    112
    81
    93
    99
    126
    97
    99
    101
    106
    101
    112
    96
    107
    94
    104
    Average=1528/15=101.9 points allowed
    February
    86
    90
    104
    106
    120
    94
    104
    93
    101
    93
    102
    Average=1093/11=99.4 points allowed
    March
    97
    100
    100
    89
    104
    92
    74
    92
    92
    90
    94
    93
    105
    103
    Average=1325/14=94.6 points allowed
    April
    92
    99
    113
    91
    98
    100
    107
    104
    93
    Average=897/9=99.7 points allowed

    I said that he picked up his defense in January and was Starbury until he got injured early in April.

    Nov. and Dec.=103.3 points allowed per game
    Jan. Feb. and March=98.7 points allowed per game

    This isnt much of a suprise to me, after WATCHING the Knicks last year I knew that their defense picked it up in January when Marbury began shuttin down point guards in shooting guards. Everytime I bring up the fact that you dont watch the Knicks you have nothing to say.

    I know you have problems reading so I just wanna make something I have listed above easier for you to read.

    Knicks points allowed month by month
    November=102.1
    December=104.6
    January=101.9
    February=99.4
    March=94.6
    April=99.7

    Marburys declining Assists? Lets take a look at the Knicks starting lineup:

    Crawford-41mpg, 40.7fg%, 33% 3P, 2.73 TO
    Richardson-29mpg, 31.1fg%, 28.7% 3P, 6.6pts
    Randolph-32.5mpg, 3.13 TO
    Curry-28.1mpg, 2.21TO, 14.9ppg

    Besides Nate Robinson, theres isnt any scorers on the bench. I dont think its neccessary for me to put up the stats of Jared Jeffries, Malik Rose, and Fred Jones.

    You call this a F*ckin team? Its Bullsh*t that ******* fans like you callin out Marbury for not bein a good leader, look at the pieces of **** that hes playin with. You dont know how to read either, you have lost this arguement 10 times already.

    "If you point out that the best PGs around the league are almost always great team leaders that tend to accent other players strengths and make them better (something Marbury has never been able to do - even at his best). They won't accept it (or don't understand it) because it's an intangible quality. It just happens to be a quality that's extremely important for a PG."

    Hey dicklover, if you re-read everything you wouldnt be saying stupid things like this. Metro said this earlier in the thread but since you cant read:



    I want you to go back to the 5th page of this thread and re-read everything. Then you would see how badly you have gotten destroyed time and time again. You have lost every debate, lets recap:



    I dont think Ive seen anyone ever lose the way you lost and you keep comin back settin the Deboe up for me, you make it too easy. You cant win an arguement against someone who actually watches the Knicks, I dont respect anything you said at any point and I proved your weak opinions and misleading stats wrong. What more do you want?
    The problem with your stats is that they are TEAM stats. You are giving Marbury all the credit for the improvement in the number of points allowed by the TEAM when it could easily be a multitude of factors.

    For example:

    I'm sure you know enough about stats to know that all a team has to do is slow down it's offense and it can produce BETTER LOOKING defensive stats. In fact, that's often a strategy employed by teams just to keep a game close. However that says nothing about the team's defense. The team is just giving the opponent less possessions and chances to score. The defense could still suck. What you may want to look at is what percentage of time that the opponent has the ball do they score.

    There are dozens of reasons the numbers could look the way they do that have nothing to do with Marbury (except in your head).

    NOW PLEASE READ THE NEXT PARAGRAPH CAREFULLY.

    What you would need to do to determine this kind of thing are HIGH QUALITY STATS that reflect the performance of the team WITH Marbury on the court and WITHOUT Marbury on the court that are adjusted for the quality of players on the court at any given time. That way you could isolate MARBURY'S contribution to the defense. Everything else is pretty much a huge smelly pile of crap.

    YOUR NUMBERS MAY IMPRESS PEOPLE THAT DON'T UNDERSTAND STATISTICS, but they don't impress me or anyone that does understand STATISTICS.

    That's why I keep strongly recommending that you look at the 82games stats and web site. The stats there are compiled by a brilliant statistican that understands how to adjust RAW numbers for all the things that mislead amateur stat guys like us.

    If you don't want to learn something new, so be it.

    I am just trying to help you. You can learn a lot about the game by looking at the work of someone who happens to be exceptionally brilliant with numbers like the guy at 82games. There is a reason he was hired by an NBA team.

    Can we please put this to rest?

    I have no desire to debate you. I am trying to open your eyes to extremely high quality information that just happens to suggest you are wrong.
    Last edited by knicklover; Jan 11, 2008 at 16:53.

  9. #144
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    Here is another great site for stats

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

  10. #145
    The Gold Mac MSGKnickz33's Avatar
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    This has already been put to rest but that 82games.com does not have high quality stats, there are several ways to easily prove those stats wrong. That 82game.coms' stats are very overrated and Ive been lookin for a better website but no matter how you break it down its very tough, maybe impossible to find accurate defensive statistics. I dont know if there is such thing as valid statistics because some teams will run the pick and roll all night to create mismatches.

    I had no idea that my stats would back up what Ive been sayin but they did. Theres almost a 5 point difference from Nov and Dec to Jan, Feb, and March. Maybe Balkman getting more minutes was part of this but I think part of it was definitly because of Starbury.

    Its very odd for anyone to talk about Marbury having his best year last year but alot of people who watched say this. Im not the only one on here saying this. Yes his assists were down and his fg% was down a little bit but his 3P% was up and his defense was better then ever. And remember, Im not talkin about this year.

    The next thing I need to do (I'll save this for another arguement) is figure out his ppg, apg, 3p%, fg%, and tpg during this stretch from the beginning of January to early April. I hope you are ready to give this up because Id rather save these stats for another time, Lets get back to proposing trades, that is what this thread is suppose to be about. It was a long and great debate and Im sorry for the personal insults but this is over.

  11. #146
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    Originally Posted by MSGKnickz33
    I agree with you Oakley, Im tryin to argue that Marbury in untouchable. Hes not a top 5 point guard but why point out Marbury when:
    • Its currys team
    • Crawford handles the ball alot
    • Richardson cant hit a shot
    • Randolph slows down offense
    • Only 2 good shooters (nate + Marbury)
    • Turnovers
    • Jared Jeffries and Malik Rose
    • No Balkman
    • Lee's limited offense
    • Isiah is the coach
    I dont care if people say Marbury hasnt proven anything yet to them this year, I just wanna see him get credit for last year. He played too good to be recieving the criticism from everyone and its F*cked up. Whatever I gotta do to defend him I'll do.
    Marbury definately played his best overall ball as a knick last year. i don't think anyone can deny that. u know what it is, when a relationship is falling apart, there comes a point where the relationship can b saved and when it's best to move on. even if that includes my favortie current knicks blakman and lee. the team don't show good chemistry for more than one game every 5-10 games, so let whoever move on already.

  12. #147
    The Gold Mac MSGKnickz33's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by OAKLEY RULEZ
    Marbury definately played his best overall ball as a knick last year. i don't think anyone can deny that. u know what it is, when a relationship is falling apart, there comes a point where the relationship can b saved and when it's best to move on. even if that includes my favortie current knicks blakman and lee. the team don't show good chemistry for more than one game every 5-10 games, so let whoever move on already.
    Im happy to see someone who actually watched the Knicks this year. I dont care what people say about Marbury this year as long as its constructive but as long as he gets his respect for last year im happy. As you see by my stats im willin to go through whatever to prove this, all underrated players need someone to stick up for them.

  13. #148
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    Got These From CBS Sports

    DECEMBER

    12/1 - 13 pts, 6 assists
    12/2 - 15 pts 4 asst
    12/4 - 16, 6
    12/6 - 16, 4
    12/9 - 2, 9assists
    12/16 - 31, 8
    12/18 - 29, 8
    12/20 - 10, 9
    12/22 - 19, 8
    12/27 - 41, 8
    12/29 - 14, 8

    JANUARY

    1/2 - 17, 8
    1/3 - 17, 7
    1/5 - 28, 4
    1/10 - 24, 6
    1/12 - 28, 5
    1/15 - 25, 8, 4 STEALS
    1/17 - 9, 8
    1/19 - 23, 7
    1/20 - 22, 6
    1/26 - 9, 13
    1/28 - 15, 8
    1/30 - 22, 1


    FEBRUARY

    2/3 - 14, 2
    2/6 - 15, 7
    2/10 - 7, 6
    2/13 - 8, 9
    2/14 - 7, 8
    2/23 - 22, 8
    2/25 - 22, 2
    2/28 - 23, 6

    MARCH

    3/2 - 34, 5
    3/3 - 38, 9, 5 STEALS
    3/6 - 40, 3
    3/10 - 15, 5
    3/14 - 31, 9
    3/16 - 8, 5
    3/18 - 21, 9
    3/22 - 17, 6
    3/26 - 32, 4
    3/28 - 16,8
    3/30 - 43, 3

    APRIL

    4/4 - 30, 6
    4/6 - 6, 0 (12 MINUTES)

  14. #149
    The Gold Mac MSGKnickz33's Avatar
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    props

    December= 78assists=7.1apg
    January= 81 assists=6.75apg
    February= 48 assists=6apg
    March= 66 assists=6apg
    273/42=6.5apg

    Marbury averaged 6.5 assists from December through March of the 06-07 season.

    On the season he averaged 5.4 assists but this isnt a good number to go by because of his slow start.

    Thanks for supplyin the stats

  15. #150
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    Originally Posted by MSGKnickz33
    props

    December= 78assists=7.1apg
    January= 81 assists=6.75apg
    February= 48 assists=6apg
    March= 66 assists=6apg
    273/42=6.5apg

    Marbury averaged 6.5 assists from December through March of the 06-07 season.

    On the season he averaged 5.4 assists but this isnt a good number to go by because of his slow start.

    Thanks for supplyin the stats
    Let's just say it is what it is.Isiah Fudd has Starbury and is trying to turn him into someone else.His assists go up when he's more aggressive yet Isiah Fudd wants him to play a more passive role.Completely retarted!!! If they tried more pick-n-roll with him and Zach they might actually have something but will Fudd try that,probably not.Isiah Fudd needs to go ASAP.He's failed on all angles with me and he needs to go on the next thing smokin'.

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