It was kind of like Joe Frazier vs George Foreman
Bare knuckle boxing now thats what Im talkin about Ray looked like he was gettin tired. Jorge was the better conditioned of the 2 and he had better reflexes and a good jab. That first dude got F*cked up.
Now if you told me that Marbury reduced his scoring role (which he has) and he only kept his assists flat because of the lack of scoring effectiveness of his teamates, that would make some sense. But these guys do score well (Crawford, Curry and Zach) and despite shooting less and having teamates that are scoring well Marbury's assists are going down. That suggests a decline in skill.
Last edited by knicklover; Jan 11, 2008 at 17:01.
wow yo....even that big black dude was there...4got his name...in 6:16...now i know he can deff fight....wow wait hes everywhere lol...but dam yo ray got messed up...u can tell if he would have hit jorge he would have knocked him out but jorge got good reflexes man...c thats exactly y u need good reflexes and good stamina when fighting some1 twice your size
Marbury's assists are down for three reasons. First Isiah is a terrible basketball coach who has no idea how to utilize talent. Second a lot of the time Marbury isn't even bringing the ball up the court. Lastly and more importantly his teammates are all one on one players who have no clue how to move without the ball. Assists are created not only by a player breaking down the defense but by his teammates moving to open spots on the floor for quality shots. Marbury's teammates do not move unless they have the ball and thus his assist totals are down.
Isiah runs an isolation offense. When Wilkens was here we were using the pick and roll and set plays more often which led to .500 basketball.
But you're right, Marbury hasn't had a good season so I can't really defend him much as I would like. But I'm glad we all understand the flaws and strengths of this team.
Ray is just a REALLY strong dude. You saw that punch he landed out of no where on Jorge? Jorge didn't even see it coming and he fell straight on his ass.
But Jorge had too much technique and basic boxing skills to lose. He was hitting Ray with accurate punches and kept his stance and stook with his gameplan of countering.
The guy you saw is Kimbo...he's a monster.
I'm sure you know enough about stats to know that all a team has to do is slow down it's offense and it can produce BETTER LOOKING defensive stats. In fact, that's often a strategy employed by teams just to keep a game close. However that says nothing about the team's defense. The team is just giving the opponent less possessions and chances to score. The defense could still suck. What you may want to look at is what percentage of time that the opponent has the ball do they score.
There are dozens of reasons the numbers could look the way they do that have nothing to do with Marbury (except in your head).
NOW PLEASE READ THE NEXT PARAGRAPH CAREFULLY.
What you would need to do to determine this kind of thing are HIGH QUALITY STATS that reflect the performance of the team WITH Marbury on the court and WITHOUT Marbury on the court that are adjusted for the quality of players on the court at any given time. That way you could isolate MARBURY'S contribution to the defense. Everything else is pretty much a huge smelly pile of crap.
YOUR NUMBERS MAY IMPRESS PEOPLE THAT DON'T UNDERSTAND STATISTICS, but they don't impress me or anyone that does understand STATISTICS.
That's why I keep strongly recommending that you look at the 82games stats and web site. The stats there are compiled by a brilliant statistican that understands how to adjust RAW numbers for all the things that mislead amateur stat guys like us.
If you don't want to learn something new, so be it.
I am just trying to help you. You can learn a lot about the game by looking at the work of someone who happens to be exceptionally brilliant with numbers like the guy at 82games. There is a reason he was hired by an NBA team.
Can we please put this to rest?
I have no desire to debate you. I am trying to open your eyes to extremely high quality information that just happens to suggest you are wrong.
Last edited by knicklover; Jan 11, 2008 at 16:53.
This has already been put to rest but that 82games.com does not have high quality stats, there are several ways to easily prove those stats wrong. That 82game.coms' stats are very overrated and Ive been lookin for a better website but no matter how you break it down its very tough, maybe impossible to find accurate defensive statistics. I dont know if there is such thing as valid statistics because some teams will run the pick and roll all night to create mismatches.
I had no idea that my stats would back up what Ive been sayin but they did. Theres almost a 5 point difference from Nov and Dec to Jan, Feb, and March. Maybe Balkman getting more minutes was part of this but I think part of it was definitly because of Starbury.
Its very odd for anyone to talk about Marbury having his best year last year but alot of people who watched say this. Im not the only one on here saying this. Yes his assists were down and his fg% was down a little bit but his 3P% was up and his defense was better then ever. And remember, Im not talkin about this year.
The next thing I need to do (I'll save this for another arguement) is figure out his ppg, apg, 3p%, fg%, and tpg during this stretch from the beginning of January to early April. I hope you are ready to give this up because Id rather save these stats for another time, Lets get back to proposing trades, that is what this thread is suppose to be about. It was a long and great debate and Im sorry for the personal insults but this is over.
Got These From CBS Sports
12/1 - 13 pts, 6 assists
12/2 - 15 pts 4 asst
12/4 - 16, 6
12/6 - 16, 4
12/9 - 2, 9assists
12/16 - 31, 8
12/18 - 29, 8
12/20 - 10, 9
12/22 - 19, 8
12/27 - 41, 8
12/29 - 14, 8
1/2 - 17, 8
1/3 - 17, 7
1/5 - 28, 4
1/10 - 24, 6
1/12 - 28, 5
1/15 - 25, 8, 4 STEALS
1/17 - 9, 8
1/19 - 23, 7
1/20 - 22, 6
1/26 - 9, 13
1/28 - 15, 8
1/30 - 22, 1
2/3 - 14, 2
2/6 - 15, 7
2/10 - 7, 6
2/13 - 8, 9
2/14 - 7, 8
2/23 - 22, 8
2/25 - 22, 2
2/28 - 23, 6
3/2 - 34, 5
3/3 - 38, 9, 5 STEALS
3/6 - 40, 3
3/10 - 15, 5
3/14 - 31, 9
3/16 - 8, 5
3/18 - 21, 9
3/22 - 17, 6
3/26 - 32, 4
3/28 - 16,8
3/30 - 43, 3
4/4 - 30, 6
4/6 - 6, 0 (12 MINUTES)
January= 81 assists=6.75apg
February= 48 assists=6apg
March= 66 assists=6apg
Marbury averaged 6.5 assists from December through March of the 06-07 season.
On the season he averaged 5.4 assists but this isnt a good number to go by because of his slow start.
Thanks for supplyin the stats