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Thread: Blow it the F*CK up! Official Trade Thread

  1. #121
    The Gold Mac MSGKnickz33's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by OAKLEY RULEZ
    a team this far under .500 shouldn't have people who r "untouchable" in a trade scenario that could actually improve the team. not anyone of the starters, not anyone on the bench, NO ONE SHOULD B ABOVE A TRADE.


    I agree with you Oakley, Im tryin to argue that Marbury in untouchable. Hes not a top 5 point guard but why point out Marbury when:

    • Its currys team
    • Crawford handles the ball alot
    • Richardson cant hit a shot
    • Randolph slows down offense
    • Only 2 good shooters (nate + Marbury)
    • Turnovers
    • Jared Jeffries and Malik Rose
    • No Balkman
    • Lee's limited offense
    • Isiah is the coach

    I dont care if people say Marbury hasnt proven anything yet to them this year, I just wanna see him get credit for last year. He played too good to be recieving the criticism from everyone and its F*cked up. Whatever I gotta do to defend him I'll do.

  2. #122
    Go 1990s New York Knicks! nyKnicks126's Avatar
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    Okay I will give him credit.. but! still the same result. No playoffs.

  3. #123
    The Gold Mac MSGKnickz33's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nyKnicks126
    Okay I will give him credit.. but! still the same result. No playoffs.
    No Playoffs, we'll heres my arguement from another thread:

    Originally Posted by MSGKnickz33
    The Nets would be better without Kidd then the Knicks would be without Marbury.

    RJ and Carter >>> Q-Rich and Crawford

    This isnt even F*ckin close, way better. New Jersey still plays like a team. Curry slows everything down and Zach is selfish. Put Kidd on the Knicks and the guy would have a heart attack with his temper, just ask his x-wife.

    Its the same deal with Nash but to a further extent. His teammates are much better then Kidds and Marburys. This isnt up for debate. We talkin about Amare, the Matrix, Barbosa, Diaw, Grant Hill and I can keep goin on. Put Nash on the Knicks and his assists would be cut in half.

    Marbury haters cant find anyway around these facts, the truth is we dont know what kind of a leader Marbury is because he doesnt have a good supporting cast.

  4. #124
    Veteran GetRealistic's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MSGKnickz33
    No Playoffs, we'll heres my arguement from another thread:


    Put Nash on the Knicks and his wins would go down, but his assists would be relatively the same. You may hate Crawford, Curry, and the rest of the bums on the team but Nash would get them such easy shots they couldn't even mess them up.

    You really got to let this Marbury love go. I understand some people have favorite players and no matter what there going to love him, but you gotta have some sort of unbiased opinion every now and then. Listen to other peoples arguements for what there saying not for the fact its negitive towards Marbury. I mean i love John Starks and ill argue his heart, dedication, and fearlessness to the end of time but i'm not stupid enough to think hes a hall of famer. And as much as it pains me to say it, he probably cost us a championship with his bad game 7, but atleast he can always say if he didn't play out of his mind during that playoff run there wouldn't have been a game 7.


    Also when Jason kidd doesn't play the Nets go to ****. They still have talented players but they become a below average team. I mean we actually beat the Nets when kidd was hurt.

  5. #125
    Veteran GetRealistic's Avatar
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    Supporting cast has nothing to do with leadership. Leadership comes from within a person and Marbury doesn't have it. Just look at those two stupid three pointers he chucked up late in the game last night.

  6. #126
    The Gold Mac MSGKnickz33's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GetRealistic
    Put Nash on the Knicks and his wins would go down, but his assists would be relatively the same. You may hate Crawford, Curry, and the rest of the bums on the team but Nash would get them such easy shots they couldn't even mess them up.

    You really got to let this Marbury love go. I understand some people have favorite players and no matter what there going to love him, but you gotta have some sort of unbiased opinion every now and then. Listen to other peoples arguements for what there saying not for the fact its negitive towards Marbury. I mean i love John Starks and ill argue his heart, dedication, and fearlessness to the end of time but i'm not stupid enough to think hes a hall of famer. And as much as it pains me to say it, he probably cost us a championship with his bad game 7, but atleast he can always say if he didn't play out of his mind during that playoff run there wouldn't have been a game 7.


    Also when Jason kidd doesn't play the Nets go to ****. They still have talented players but they become a below average team. I mean we actually beat the Nets when kidd was hurt.
    Originally Posted by GetRealistic
    Supporting cast has nothing to do with leadership. Leadership comes from within a person and Marbury doesn't have it. Just look at those two stupid three pointers he chucked up late in the game last night.
    Marbury hasnt been in a position where he can prove his leadership since the 04-05 season which he did by averaging 9.3 assists and bringing a Knicks team with a couple of injured players to the playoffs.

    The only problem that I have with Marbury is that hes not vocal enough and he doesnt get the team fired up but you replace Crawford with a shooter and Curry with a defensive minded Center and you got a playoff team. You would have to start the season over but at least to me Marbury looked like a leader last year.

    Give him a little bit more time, hes still gettin back into shape and lets see what he does. When we beat the Nets they didnt even have a point guard, Marcus williams was hurt and I think Curry not playing helped us out also. Thats was when he tripped over the freethrow line and sprained his ankle.

  7. #127
    Cutest Guy Here Kennedy Curse's Avatar
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    man marburys our best player PERIOD....but hes not a leader and 2 slefish man...like idk hes one crazy dude...did anywun see his talk show talking about his cuzin or sister or some shyt saying she looks mad good and he kissed her? like i mean not just a simply hey she look beautiful no he went like o.d yo saying this and that and some shyt about her curves lolz...idk man he gotta fix some shyt up and also become a leader...

  8. #128
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    Originally Posted by MSGKnickz33
    I agree with you Oakley, Im tryin to argue that Marbury in untouchable. .
    i too agree he is untouchable... cause no one wants him and his 20+ mill contract.... not to mention his laundry bill for towels...

  9. #129
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    Originally Posted by GetRealistic
    Put Nash on the Knicks and his wins would go down, but his assists would be relatively the same. You may hate Crawford, Curry, and the rest of the bums on the team but Nash would get them such easy shots they couldn't even mess them up.

    You really got to let this Marbury love go. I understand some people have favorite players and no matter what there going to love him, but you gotta have some sort of unbiased opinion every now and then. Listen to other peoples arguements for what there saying not for the fact its negitive towards Marbury.
    The problem here is that when anyone says anything negative about Marbury his die hard fans interpret that as people saying that it's all Marbury's fault, Marbury sucks etc...

    That's simply not the case. Maybe a few people out there hate Marbury, but I'm not one of them.

    Mostly what's happening is that people are discussing his strengths and weaknesses in an unbiased fashion, but his fans can't even take that much criticism.

    For example:

    If someone says that Marbury's PPG are starting to decline, those that love him will immediately point out that that's because we've been running the offense through Curry. Plus Crawford is taking a lot of shots. Marbury has been a good soldier about it and reduced his shots to hopefully make the team better.

    All that is true.

    However, if I point out that his assists are also down, his fans won't acknowledge (or understand) the significance of that.

    You can't have it both ways.

    If Marbury is reducing his shots and deferring more to Crawford and Curry, his assists should be rising a little. But they are falling too. If those other guys are scoring more, someone has to be giving them the ball here or there and getting an extra assist. You would think that would most often be the PG. But it's not Marbury getting those extra assists.

    Now what's the conclusion?

    It's very simple. Marbury is still a good player. He may even still be the best all around Knick. But he is starting to slip a little. That's not a horrible conclusion. It's the reality. But even that small level of criticism is too much for his biased fans.

    If you point out that the best PGs around the league are almost always great team leaders that tend to accent other players strengths and make them better (something Marbury has never been able to do - even at his best). They won't accept it (or don't understand it) because it's an intangible quality. It just happens to be a quality that's extremely important for a PG.

    This really should be put to rest.

    If his biggest fans are right about anything, it's that Marbury doesn't deserve to be the focus of the conversation. He will be gone at the end of next year anyway (or maybe even sooner) and he's not the primary reason we are losing. We are playing better with him in the lineup.
    Last edited by knicklover; Jan 11, 2008 at 08:04.

  10. #130
    12th man
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    His assist go down because his SG shoots 40% and his SF shoots 30% and his PF is a black hole and his turnover prone center takes 7 seconds to get in position and 6 seconds to score.

    Simple.

  11. #131
    Newbie HITMAN87's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nyKnicks126
    You guys know if Isiahs plan worked this team would have been a 70+ win team. It started all in the beginning. But that 70 plus winning dream has turned into a possiblity for a 1st pick in the 08 draft. To save Isiah I think he has one more move to save the Knicks and his stay as a GM and coach.
    I AGREE I THINK THOMAS HAS 1 MOVE LEFT AND WILL MAKE THE BEST OUT OF IT HES STILL A YOUNG GM/COACH AND IS LEARNING THE ERRORS OF HIS WAYS GUARANTEE THE NEXT MOVE HE MAKES TRADE DEADLINE OR IN THE DRAFT WILL BE A STEP IN THE PROPER DIRECTION

  12. #132
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    Isiah wouldn't even be able to build a winning team of NBA players in High School competition.

    Worst NBA GM of all time.

  13. #133
    The Gold Mac MSGKnickz33's Avatar
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    Knicklover can you read? I said Marburys prime was last year and I admitted his shooting percenteges were not as good as they once were but his 3pt shooting percentages are better then ever. The main thing I wanna see him get credit for is his offense, defense, and team play last year from January to early April when he got hurt. There has been several arguements that I have made backed up by facts that you havent answered.

    Im gonna do the math and figure out the average points allowed month by month that the Knicks as a team allowed. I have said several times throughout the arguement that Marbury started to play THE BEST BASKETBALL OF HIS CAREER IN JANUARY OF 2007. Lets see if my stats back this up.

    November
    117
    102
    109
    105
    107
    103
    100
    102
    82
    76
    122
    97
    107
    101
    106
    102
    98
    Average=1736/17=102.1 points allowed
    December
    108
    103
    90
    113
    107
    97
    82
    112
    123
    96
    109
    92
    98
    145
    108
    90
    Average=1673/16=104.6 points allowed
    January
    112
    81
    93
    99
    126
    97
    99
    101
    106
    101
    112
    96
    107
    94
    104
    Average=1528/15=101.9 points allowed
    February
    86
    90
    104
    106
    120
    94
    104
    93
    101
    93
    102
    Average=1093/11=99.4 points allowed
    March
    97
    100
    100
    89
    104
    92
    74
    92
    92
    90
    94
    93
    105
    103
    Average=1325/14=94.6 points allowed
    April
    92
    99
    113
    91
    98
    100
    107
    104
    93
    Average=897/9=99.7 points allowed

    I said that he picked up his defense in January and was Starbury until he got injured early in April.

    Nov. and Dec.=103.3 points allowed per game
    Jan. Feb. and March=98.7 points allowed per game

    This isnt much of a suprise to me, after WATCHING the Knicks last year I knew that their defense picked it up in January when Marbury began shuttin down point guards in shooting guards. Everytime I bring up the fact that you dont watch the Knicks you have nothing to say.

    I know you have problems reading so I just wanna make something I have listed above easier for you to read.

    Knicks points allowed month by month
    November=102.1
    December=104.6
    January=101.9
    February=99.4
    March=94.6
    April=99.7

    Marburys declining Assists? Lets take a look at the Knicks starting lineup:

    Crawford-41mpg, 40.7fg%, 33% 3P, 2.73 TO
    Richardson-29mpg, 31.1fg%, 28.7% 3P, 6.6pts
    Randolph-32.5mpg, 3.13 TO
    Curry-28.1mpg, 2.21TO, 14.9ppg

    Besides Nate Robinson, theres isnt any scorers on the bench. I dont think its neccessary for me to put up the stats of Jared Jeffries, Malik Rose, and Fred Jones.

    You call this a F*ckin team? Its Bullsh*t that ******* fans like you callin out Marbury for not bein a good leader, look at the pieces of **** that hes playin with. You dont know how to read either, you have lost this arguement 10 times already.

    "If you point out that the best PGs around the league are almost always great team leaders that tend to accent other players strengths and make them better (something Marbury has never been able to do - even at his best). They won't accept it (or don't understand it) because it's an intangible quality. It just happens to be a quality that's extremely important for a PG."

    Hey dicklover, if you re-read everything you wouldnt be saying stupid things like this. Metro said this earlier in the thread but since you cant read:

    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Marbury's first real season with the Nets, they averaged 98 ppg(especially at that time defense was played more frequent), thats not bad at all considering the only real scoring threats Nets had were Marbury and Keith Van Horn.

    Going into 2000, things kinda blew up when Nets management(kinda like the Knicks) didn't build around Marbury properly, players couldn't stay healthy and they began to stink.

    Marbury's first season in Phoneix(01-02 season), they ranked 17th in the NBA in PPG...thats pretty "average" to me, more than stagnant.

    Then in 02-03, Phoneix was improved to 13th in the NBA in PPG led by Marbury.

    In 03'-04, Phoneix improved to 94 ppg with Marbury, almost top 10 in the NBA

    When Marbury was traded to the Knicks...we looked awesome, we finally had a player maker and a creator who can penetrate.

    Marbury did run the offense and the team averaged 97 ppg in 04-05 I believe...thats not bad right?

    The point is, Marbury is very capable of running a good offense. Not a Steve Nash offense, but a good one.

    Nets offense look like ****, , should Kidd get the blame or should Nets management get the blame for not giving him the right pieces and the right coach?

    Marbury doesn't have the coach or the players to be effective.

    The reason why our offense is so stagnant is because of Eddy Curry takes a lot of time to get in position and is a predictable player like how Eli is a predictable QB and always get picked. This leads to alot of turnovers, more possessions for the other team. Chicago was a terrible team when they ran their offense through Eddy Curry, they were so bad, they were like **** IT...lets just be a jump shooting team, we'll at least WIN games...**** a post game.

    Still, 8 assist a game is extremely impressive. Marbury averaged 9 assist when he first came here. I don't see how you can say he has no "vision", atleast agree he has an adequate amount of vision, but I'll agree with you that he doesn't have Kidd or Nash vision.
    I want you to go back to the 5th page of this thread and re-read everything. Then you would see how badly you have gotten destroyed time and time again. You have lost every debate, lets recap:

    Originally Posted by MSGKnickz33
    Wtf are we arguin about anyways?

    Marburys defense?
    Marburys efficiency?
    Marburys top 15 status?
    Marburys great play last year?
    Marburys offensive capabilites?
    Marburys leadership and teamplay?
    Marburys ability to perform under pressure?
    I dont think Ive seen anyone ever lose the way you lost and you keep comin back settin the Deboe up for me, you make it too easy. You cant win an arguement against someone who actually watches the Knicks, I dont respect anything you said at any point and I proved your weak opinions and misleading stats wrong. What more do you want?

  14. #134
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    Originally Posted by HITMAN87
    I AGREE I THINK THOMAS HAS 1 MOVE LEFT
    i just hope the 1 move is in front of a bus at 33rd and 7th....

  15. #135
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    I like knickslover, he's one of the better posters here, but MSG33 just came in hard body with the STATS...we gotta crown him the STAT king; I never seen anyone utilized stats like that to murder a debate.

    Its time the video, debo time!





    BTW: This is the trade thread...you could post your trade ideas here


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