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Thread: Looking back on the 2003-04 Knicks season

  1. #1
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    Default Looking back on the 2003-04 Knicks season

    We averaged 92 points per game, but only gave up 93 points per game.

    Our line up was

    Marbury
    Houston
    Tiny Tim
    Thomas
    Mutumbo

    We had a deadly back court

    This season Marbury averaged 9.3 assist for the Knicks and about 20 points per game with 3 rebs and 1.3 steals.

    Houston shot 43% from 3pt and averaged almost 19 points per game on 2 two turnovers per game.

    Thomas and Mutumbo was a strong defensive front court and could lock down other players game by game.


    Because of all the injuries was most used line up was

    Marbury
    Anderson
    Tim Thomas
    Kurt Thomas
    Mohammed


    This season we made the PLAYOFFS but fell short to the Nets.




    From NBA.com...


    THE NEW YORK KNICKERBOCKERS marked their 58th season as a charter member of the NBA with a 39-43 (.476) regular season mark. . . Knicks earned their first NBA Playoff berth since 2001, as they finished in third in the Atlantic Division (eight games behind division champion New Jersey) and were seeded seventh in the Eastern Conference.

    CANCEL THAT VACATION. . .AGAIN: After a two-year absence from the post-season tournament, the Knicks advanced to the NBA Playoffs for the first time since 2001, and for the 15th time in the last 17 seasons. . . Knicks made the Playoffs for a club record 14 consecutive seasons, 1988-2001. . . Knicks mathematically clinched a Playoff berth on April 7 (game no. 79) with a 96-82 victory over Chicago at Madison Square Garden, and with Cleveland’s subsequent 92-74 loss at Memphis.

    THE RECORD (39-43): With a two-victory improvement over their 37-45 mark of 2002-03, Knicks joined the Indiana Pacers as the only two Eastern Conference teams who have increased their win totals over each of the last two seasons. Knicks have gone 30-37-39 in the win column in the last three seasons, Pacers have gone 42-48-61 (Detroit just misses joining the group, going 50-50-54 in last three years). . . Knicks were 29-25 following the Dec 22 appointment of Isiah Thomas as president, basketball operations. . . Knicks have recorded three consecutive sub-.500 campaigns for the first time since they finished below .500 for four straight seasons, 1984-85 through 1987-88.


    ON THE LEADER BOARD: Stephon Marbury was the only NBA player to rank among League’s Top 20 in scoring (15th with 20.2 ppg), assists (8.9 apg, second to Jason Kidd's 9.2), steals (15th with 1.59 spg) and assist-to-turnover ratio (tied for 11th with 2.89). Steph led the NBA in total assists (719). . . Dikembe Mutombo was 14th in the NBA in blocks per game (1.89). . . Kurt Thomas tied for 20th in rebounding (8.3 rpg), and tied for 27th in FG pct. (.473). . .Despite his injury-shortened season, Allan Houston ranked third in the League in FT pct. (.913, behind only Peja Stojakovic’s .927 and Steve Nash’s .916) and seventh in 3PT FG pct. (.431).

    WON-LOST STREAKS: Knicks’ longest winning streak was five games (Jan 30-Feb 8 over Boston, Phoenix, Indiana, Miami and Clippers), their longest winning streak since they won five straight from March 11-20, 2001. . . Longest losing streak was six games, twice (Dec 1-10 and Feb 20-29).

    BY THE MONTHS:
    Knicks were 0-1 in October, 7-9 in November, 7-9 in December, 8-8 in January, 4-8 in February, 9-5 in March and 4-3 in April. . . Knicks’ 9-5 March marked their winningest month since January 2003 (10-8). . .Winning months in March (9-5) and April (4-3) marked NY’s first back-to-back winning months since March-April 2001 (9-7, 6-4).

    EAST/WEST:
    Knicks were 31-23 against the Eastern Conference, recording their highest win total against the East since 2000-01 (32-22). . . Knicks went 17-7 against the Atlantic Division, their best mark vs. the Atlantic since 1996-97 (19-6). . . Knicks recorded season sweeps over Atlanta (3-0) and Washington (4-0), and also won season series against Boston (3-1), Miami (3-1), Orlando (3-1), Philadelphia (3-1), New Orleans (2-1) and Toronto (3-1). . . They defeated every Eastern Conference team at least once, except Cleveland (0-4). . . However, Knicks were just 8-20 against the Western Conference (2-12 on the road).


    NEW FACES OF ’04: Almost immediately upon appointment, Thomas embarked on a series of player moves that decisively changed the face of the Knicks. . .Moochie Norris and John Amaechi (waived on Jan 5) were acquired on Dec 30 from Houston for Clarence Weatherspoon. . . Then in a stunning Jan 5 megadeal, two-time All-Star Stephon Marbury, four-time All-Star Anfernee Hardaway and Cezary Trybanski were acquired from Phoenix for senior Knick Charlie Ward, Howard Eisley, Antonio McDyess, Maciej Lampe, the draft rights to Milos Vujanic and two future draft picks. . . DerMarr Johnson was signed as a free agent on Feb 3. . .At the All-Star break (Feb 15), Tim Thomas and Nazr Mohammed were acquired in a three-team deal that sent Keith Van Horn to Milwaukee and Michael Doleac and Joel Przybilla to Atlanta. . .Four-time All-Star Vin Baker was signed as a free agent on March 12. . .At the close of the season, only seven players remained on the Knicks’ 15-man roster from Opening Night: Shandon Anderson, Othella Harrington, Allan Houston, Dikembe Mutombo, Michael Sweetney, Kurt Thomas and Frank Williams.

    DEE-FENSE: Improvement on the defensive end was a key to Knicks’ return to post-season play. . .Knicks finished 13th in the NBA in ppg allowed (93.5), and eighth in opposition FG pct. (.429). . . By comparison, in 2002-03, they ranked 20th in opposition ppg (97.2) and 26th in opposing FG pct. (.457). . . Knicks recorded their lowest opposition ppg and lowest opposition FG pct. since 2000-01 (86.1 ppg, .417 opposing FG pct.). . . This season, the Knicks recorded their 18th, 19th and 20th sub-70 opposition games of the shot clock era (68 points by Orlando on Nov 3; 64 points by Miami on Feb 7; 65 points by New Jersey on March 19).

    DEE-FENSE, PART II: Knicks pulled down 3,493 total rebounds (42.6 rpg, 14th in NBA), their highest rebound total since 1993-94 (3,717). . .Thanks in great measure to Dikembe Mutombo (123) and Kurt Thomas (80), the Knicks recorded 391 total blocks (4.77 bpg), their highest total since 1990-91 (418 total, 5.10 bpg). . . Knicks held the opposition under .400 shooting 26 times in 2003-04, going 20-6 in those games. In 2002-03, the defense recorded just 14 sub-.400 shooting games (9-5).

    THAT WAS THE WEEK THAT WAS. . .TWICE: Dikembe Mutombo (period ending Nov 30) and Stephon Marbury (period ending Jan 18) were both honored as the NBA’s Eastern Conference Player of the Week. . . It was Deke’s eighth career POTW honor, Stephon’s sixth. . . Knicks had two POTW honorees in the same season for the first time since 1991-92, when Patrick Ewing (period ending Jan 5) and Mark Jackson (period ending March 29) were honored.

    20-20 VISION: Eleven different Knicks recorded 20+ point games in 2003-04: Stephon Marbury (25), Allan Houston (20), Keith Van Horn (18), Tim Thomas (6), Shandon Anderson (4), Kurt Thomas (3), Nazr Mohammed (2), Howard Eisley (1), Anfernee Hardaway (1), Moochie Norris (1) and DerMarr Johnson (1). . .Knicks had their highest number of single-game 20+ scorers since 1965-66, when they also produced 11 members of the 20+ club: Jim “Bad News” Barnes, Dick Barnett, Walt Bellamy, Emmette Bryant, Barry Clemens, Tom Gola, Jumpin’ Johnny Green, Howard Komives, Willis Reed, Dave Stallworth and Dick Van Arsdale.


    INJURIES: Knicks recorded 234 manpower games lost due to injury, the 15th-highest figure in the NBA and the third time in the last four years Knicks have recorded 200+ games missed. . . Among those who missed double-figure games due to injury were Allan Houston (30), Michael Sweetney (22), Antonio McDyess (17), Dikembe Mutombo (15) and Frank Williams (13). . . In all, 17 different players missed at least one game due to injury/illness.

    LINEUPS: Through a season marked with player moves and injuries to key starters, the Knicks used a staggering 23 different starting lineups in 2003-04 (as opposed to just six starting lineups in both 2001-02 and 2002-03). . . Knicks recorded their highest number of starting lineups since 1986-87, when Hubie Brown and Bob Hill employed 25 different lineups. . . Most-used lineup was the season-ending lineup of Marbury/Anderson/Mohammed/Kurt Thomas/Tim Thomas (12 games, 6-6).


    FROM THE LINE: After recording a club record .815 FT pct. in 2002-03 (2nd in NBA), Knicks finished third in the League with a .793 FT pct. (1,374-1,732 FTA), trailing only Dallas (.796) and Sacramento (.795). . .Allan Houston finished third in the NBA with a .913 mark from the line (second-best in Knicks history to Allan’s .919 in 2002-03), while three-fifths of the season-ending starting lineup -- Stephon Marbury (.833 w/NY), Kurt Thomas (.835) and Tim Thomas (.813 w/NY) – all shot .800+ from the stripe.


    THREEEEEE-POINT GOAL: Knicks finished fourth in the NBA in three-point FG pct. (.364 on 406-1,115 from Downtown). . .
    Knicks trailed only Sacramento (.401), Seattle (.373) and Houston (.366) in three-point FG pct. in 2003-04. . .Knicks recorded six games with at least 10 3PT FGM this season. . . Knicks nailed a season-high 15 (of 26) home runs in 114-86 win at Orlando on Dec 29, falling one shy of club record 16 (Jan 10, 2003 at Philadelphia).

    ON THE OFFENSIVE: Knicks finished 16th in the NBA in ppg (92.0) and 12th in FG pct. (.442). . . They were 16-1 when scoring 100+ points (lone loss came on Jan 12, when they lost to Dallas in OT, 127-121).


    March 14, 2004: Tim Thomas' 20 points and 8 rebounds helped the Knicks overcome a 26 point deficit and record their biggest comeback win since the 1991-92 season.

    COMEBACKS: [/B]Knicks won 11 games this season in which they trailed by double figures (most since 14 in 1999-2000). . . Heading the list of comebacks was an amazing 103-100 ABC win at Milwaukee on March 14, in which the Knicks trailed by as many as 26 points and recorded their biggest comeback win since the stat was first charted in 1991-92. Michael Redd’s layup gave the Bucks a 26-point lead (65-39) with 10:43 left in the third quarter, but Knicks outscored Milwaukee 64-35 over the game’s last 22:29. . . Knicks eclipsed their prior biggest post-1991-92 comeback: from 22 points down in win vs. Chicago on March 2, 1995. Knicks also rebounded from a 22-point halftime deficit (61-39), one point shy of their biggest halftime comeback (from 23 points down at halftime to beat Philadelphia on April 6, 1987). . . On the flip side, Knicks lost nine games this season in which they led by double figures (fewest since six in 2000-01). Biggest blown lead in loss was 19 points in 88-81 loss at Portland, Dec 5.

    MARGINS: Knicks were 6-6 in games decided by three points or less, 4-6 in games decided by 20 points or more. . . Biggest winning margin was 29 points (Dec 30 vs. Miami, 102-73), the last of three consecutive 20+ point wins (also 100-80 at Miami on Dec 27; 114-86 at Orlando, Dec 29). Knicks recorded three consecutive 20+ point wins for the first time since Nov 20-21-23, 1997 (over Atlanta, Washington and Vancouver). . . Biggest losing margin was 32 points (Jan 8 vs. Houston, 111-79).

    BACK TO BACKS: Knicks played 20 sets of back-to-back games. . .In back-to-backs, Knicks swept six sets, lost five, and split nine. . . Knicks’ first back-to-back sweep this season came on Dec 13-14 (95-88 vs. Denver, 89-87 vs. Washington), and marked their first back-to-back sweep since Jan 23-24, 2002 (96-92 at Toronto, 96-91 vs. Phoenix). Since then, Knicks played 33 sets of back-to-back games without a sweep, until finally ending the dry spell. . . Knicks also swept a four-games-in-five-days set from Dec 26-30, beating Miami (twice), Memphis and Orlando. It was their first sweep of a four-in-five since Jan 29-Feb 2, 1994 (over Seattle, Portland, Boston and Washington).

    WIRE TO WIRE: Knicks recorded four wire-to-wire wins in 2003-04 (games in which they never trailed). . . Included were back-to-back wins on Dec 26 at Memphis (98-94) and Dec 27 at Miami (100-80), their first consecutive wire-to-wire triumphs since Feb 19 and 21, 1999 (over Philadelphia and Chicago). . . Conversely, Knicks had 10 wire-to-wire losses (never led).



    And after that we just went down hill.

    A smart GM would of let these contracts expiring, save the draft picks and just build from there. Instead Isiah took the path that has us in the mess we're in now.

    All I can say is

    Anderson >>> Crawford
    Thomas >>> Randolph
    Mutumbo >>> Curry

    Unselfish defensive veterans > selfish no defense one dementional overrated "young talent"

  2. #2
    The Gold Mac MSGKnickz33's Avatar
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    Wow, I keep bringin up Kurt Thomas. I still consider him a better play then Curry and Zach. He recently had an 18 rebound game.

    Marbury had no problem gettin his 20 and 8 with that team. If he was still with capable players, I have to believe the result would be the same or close.

    Shandon Anderson was not a good scorer but he was an excellent defender, way better then Crawford. Crawford dont even play defense.

    Mohammed and Mutombo are still better players then Curry, or at least Mutombo as of last year. I dont know what hes done so far this year, I know hes not gettin that many minutes.

    Would the Knicks be better off if Scott Layden was still the gm today? For the first time, I think they would be. I considered that team to be overpaid, overaged, and undersized but at least they played defense and at least they played with heart. I dont know what they wouldve done in the 2004-05 season but I remember Tim Thomas playin well the 2nd half of that season.

    Isiah likes players who can score but he doesnt look at the bigger picture: that most of these guys can play defense, they are turnover prone, and they lack the mental toughness to consistenly do the one thing their supposed to be good at and thats score.

    At Least some of us fans got to see them and the 90's and some of us saw them years before that, but I feel bad for the young teams to have to watch a team this bad.

    Layden got good character players for the most part who were good defenders. He wasnt good with young talent if you look at his choices he made in drafts and he gave players too much money. Overall Isiah and Layden suck as GMS, but whos worse? I cant forget that Layden couldve had Amare, Artest, and I know I'm forgettin some players, I'd have to check the draft history.

    In conlusion, The KNicks suck Ass.

  3. #3
    12th man
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    Originally Posted by MSGKnickz33
    Wow, I keep bringin up Kurt Thomas. I still consider him a better play then Curry and Zach. He recently had an 18 rebound game.

    Marbury had no problem gettin his 20 and 8 with that team. If he was still with capable players, I have to believe the result would be the same or close.

    Shandon Anderson was not a good scorer but he was an excellent defender, way better then Crawford. Crawford dont even play defense.

    Mohammed and Mutombo are still better players then Curry, or at least Mutombo as of last year. I dont know what hes done so far this year, I know hes not gettin that many minutes.

    Would the Knicks be better off if Scott Layden was still the gm today? For the first time, I think they would be. I considered that team to be overpaid, overaged, and undersized but at least they played defense and at least they played with heart. I dont know what they wouldve done in the 2004-05 season but I remember Tim Thomas playin well the 2nd half of that season.

    Isiah likes players who can score but he doesnt look at the bigger picture: that most of these guys can play defense, they are turnover prone, and they lack the mental toughness to consistenly do the one thing their supposed to be good at and thats score.

    At Least some of us fans got to see them and the 90's and some of us saw them years before that, but I feel bad for the young teams to have to watch a team this bad.

    Layden got good character players for the most part who were good defenders. He wasnt good with young talent if you look at his choices he made in drafts and he gave players too much money. Overall Isiah and Layden suck as GMS, but whos worse? I cant forget that Layden couldve had Amare, Artest, and I know I'm forgettin some players, I'd have to check the draft history.

    In conlusion, The KNicks suck Ass.
    Agreed.

    Layden suck, but Isiah didn't do terrible in 2003-04...he should of kept that team, let the contracts expiring, and build through the draft and free agency instead of building the other way around.

  4. #4
    The Gold Mac MSGKnickz33's Avatar
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    I meant to write that most of these guys cant* play defense but I think everyone knows what I meant, If i was tryin to argue that they were good defenders I would have no chance because its fact, not opinion.

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    Don't sleep on the facts.

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    The Layden Knick Roster that started the 2003-4 season were a second round Postseason Team with 4 expiring contract players that were going to lift this Knick Team to the 7th game of the second round if the roster would have stayed the same all season (the only trade this Knick Team needed to make was with Portland for Rasheed Wallace for Mcdyess).
    Head Coach Don Chaney, and assistant coach Herb Williams, finally got through to a 9-Man Rotation at the beginning of December that started blowing teams away consistently on Defense.
    C-Mutombo, Doleac
    PF-K-Thomas, Mcdyess
    SF-KVH, Weatherspoon
    SG-Houston, Anderson
    PG-Ward, F-Williams

    In December before Layden was Fired Coach Don Chaney Knicks beat 3 teams by 25 or more points just off of their Defense.
    To this day, I believe that Detroit Head Coach Larry Brown stole all of Coach Don Chaney defensive plays (Chaney & Herb was JVG assistant coach), once Rasheed Wallace was added to the Detroit Roster.
    Detroit's Defense became the same as Mutombo, K-Thomas, KVH, Houston, and Ward (Ben, Rasheed, Prince, RIP, and Billups).

    Isiah Thomas was hired and wasted no time at getting rid of the Knicks Leader and Real Captain "Mr. Charlie Ward".
    It was annouced by Coach Chaney, that it was Charlie Ward's idea to put Rookie PG-Frank Williams in the Starting Lineup which Started a 3 game Winning Streak. Now that's what a Team Leader does. Inwhich none of Isiah Thomas Players have on this roster today...

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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    The Layden Knick Roster that started the 2003-4 season were a second round Postseason Team with 4 expiring contract players that were going to lift this Knick Team to the 7th game of the second round if the roster would have stayed the same all season (the only trade this Knick Team needed to make was with Portland for Rasheed Wallace for Mcdyess).
    Head Coach Don Chaney, and assistant coach Herb Williams, finally got through to a 9-Man Rotation at the beginning of December that started blowing teams away consistently on Defense.
    C-Mutombo, Doleac
    PF-K-Thomas, Mcdyess
    SF-KVH, Weatherspoon
    SG-Houston, Anderson
    PG-Ward, F-Williams

    In December before Layden was Fired Coach Don Chaney Knicks beat 3 teams by 25 or more points just off of their Defense.
    To this day, I believe that Detroit Head Coach Larry Brown stole all of Coach Don Chaney defensive plays (Chaney & Herb was JVG assistant coach), once Rasheed Wallace was added to the Detroit Roster.
    Detroit's Defense became the same as Mutombo, K-Thomas, KVH, Houston, and Ward (Ben, Rasheed, Prince, RIP, and Billups).

    Isiah Thomas was hired and wasted no time at getting rid of the Knicks Leader and Real Captain "Mr. Charlie Ward".
    It was annouced by Coach Chaney, that it was Charlie Ward's idea to put Rookie PG-Frank Williams in the Starting Lineup which Started a 3 game Winning Streak. Now that's what a Team Leader does. Inwhich none of Isiah Thomas Players have on this roster today...
    Whats really sad Kiyaman...only real Knick fans remember that 3 games winning streak. Glad you keeping it real brother.

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    Veteran jpz17's Avatar
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    We shouldn't be looking back.. We should be looking ahead!

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    Originally Posted by jpz17
    We shouldn't be looking back.. We should be looking ahead!
    I know.

    The Knicks have an excellent coach:

    Mike D'Antoni will get the Knicks 20 wins, next year, and he will inflate the team, by making Eddy Curry the #1, #2, and #3 scoring option.

    Quentin Richardson is going to once again lead the NBA for the most 3 point makes and attempts in a season on 226-893 shooting.

    Jamal Crawford will averge 9.7 3 point attempts per game, shoot 36% from the field, and average 1.5 free throw attempts per game, despite shooting 93% from the foul line.

    Zach Randolph is going to averge 30 points and 20 rebounds, to go along with .08 assists, surpassing Ewing's record in career points and rebounds.

    Derrick Rose is going to average 20 points and 14 assists, and the Knicks will make it to the NBA Finals for the first time in 10 years.

    David Lee will become a 3 point specialist, and so will Jerome James.

    Stephon Marbury is going to average 13 points, 10 dimes, and 20 assists.

    We should definitely be looking ahead.

  10. #10
    Your Best Bet is B Ez datruth's Avatar
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    i think thats the last season we saw frank williams, i always wondered what happened to him,i know he got traded to the bulls but i always thought he was good, i liked em, he didnt back down from Jkidd in da playoffs and i remember he hit a game winning lay up off a sick crossover over orlando

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    I"m not sure exactly what the purpose of this thread was/is. The 2003-2004 team was a mediocore team that made the playoffs and got swept. The team had a spark put into it by the Marbury Trade and that gave the knicks the ability to squeak into the playoffs. Please do not believe that this team was anything like an 8 seed that theKnicks had that defeated the heat, or the Hawks team that took the celtics deep. THis was a group of veterans which got shot in the arm by the marbury trade and they went on to make the playoffs.

    Now if you want to bring up what Isiah should have done, or should not have done, that is understandable but you have to be objective and look at the whole 1st year in general. If you say that Marbury trade was a good trade, then you can not say that the Knicks should have sat on their hands and waited for contracts to expire. The reason you don't do that, is because you had a top 5 point guard one of the 20 top players in the league at the time on your team, you did not have a good team, and because of this, you had to try to make trades that would make the team better with its new superstar.

    Isiah should not have made any trades that 1st year. he should have let charlie ward walk, mcdyse go, and wait to see what was ahead of him. He should have waited held it down and suffered another season with the same folks and then go for it. But once, he made that trade for Marbury, all other bets were off. And again I want you guys to be realistic and objective about this, If after zeke got Marbury, and left the team as was, without getting any help whatsoever for their new superstar, you guys would have been killing him. They had no real shooting guard, unless u wanna say Penny was the shooting guard, Tim Thomas was the 3, Kurt was a good 3, and Mohamed was the 5. SO as it stood, we had a superstar at the 1, regular players at the 2,3,and 5, and a real good player at the 5. We had crappy as shannon anderson off the bench. Are you going to tell me that this team was the team were building a contender around?? C'mon now

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    Go 1990s New York Knicks! nyKnicks126's Avatar
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    Like I said the only thing that will save the Knicks, and I am saying this for 2 years now, expiring contracts, and draft picks, we need to start brand new, like the Sixer, Blazers, Grizzles, ect. Talent is everywhere in the NBA, the Knicks just need to look for it.

  13. #13
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    The purpose of this thread was to show where the Knicks were in 03-04.

    They were a playoff team with expiring picks and draft picks.
    Isiah traded those expiring picks and draft picks and ruined the franchise.


    You can't prefer a team led by Crawford and Curry over the guys on that roster. Think about it and use logic. Those guys = cap space and new free agents. Isiah ruined all that for us.

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    Veteran jpz17's Avatar
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    D'Antoni and Walsh will lead us towards the future and away form Isiah

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