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Thread: Isiah just needs a lineup change.

  1. #1
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    Default Isiah just needs a lineup change.

    And THIS roster might be able to work. Id rather support a coaching change along with a trade for say Ron Artest or Ben Wallace but ey lets talk realistically here this is the new york knicks owned by James Dolan.

    There is a good article about how a simple lineup change could fix the knicks. its not one sided written by a knicks fan but a clear look at it. it talks about his first and second unit and how that makes no sense.

    take a look
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    basically.. Curry, Randolph, Richardson, Crawford, Marbury turns into Randolph, Lee, Balkman, Jones and Marbury. Id prefer to put Curry in the C and Lee by his side. but ey its still a good piece

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    You haven't gave up yet?

    By now you should understanding Isiah has no plan. He's not a motivated head coach; not encouraging defense, letting Crawford and Curry run the offense so wreckless.

    Looking at our roster, it sticks.

    Our talent is overrated to the max.

    Ever since Isiah benched Marbury and turned the team against Marbury, everything went down hill from there. Isiah forgot that Marbury was the only player on this roster that was in a playoff series for the Knicks and the only current Knick who played in a .500 team under Lenny Wilkins.

    The 1st season I had hope in Isiah. He brought in Marbury and we went to the playoffs. Marbury was playing like an all star (20 and 9). We could of build around (with shooters) him and focus on being a defensive team at the same time (Kurt Thomas, Mutumbo, Williams Nazr etc) and just ride out being a competitive team. These guys had chemistry too, they weren't flashy but they got the job done and played .500 basketball.

    Of course Marbury's attitude is going to suck. When he came to New York he saw promise. Steph was a multi-all star and a top 3-5 PG at the time. It was his team at the time and they did good; making the playoffs is a good start.

    Isiah then in the later year brought in a Crawford who doesn't compliment Marbury's game because Crawford doesn't make good decisions, isn't a good shooter, has terrible shot selection and is one of the weakest defensive SG's in the NBA today. Knicks then became a lottery team that season.

    Next year, Isiah gets CURRY and decides to build around a 13 ppg 5 rebound player. How should Marbury feel at this point? We know, but Marbury acted professional and went with Isiah's plan that this was Curry's team. Marbury even said he was going to limit his role and get Curry more involved. Marbury did that exactly and Curry started averaging career highs while Steph dominated the ball less. The only problem with that with Curry improving his stats we took more loses and more loses till we started becoming a joke in the NBA. Curry got his 19 and 7, while we got our 33 wins.

    Its really makes me sick that Isiah fed Curry so many minutes. Its like when a dad is head coach of his son's team and gives his son 48 minutes on the court even if the son is the worst defender at his position and is poor at making decisions. Thats how I see Curry, as Isiah's son. We lose a game, doesn't matter to Isiah. As long as Curry gets his 35 minutes to average a useless 19 and 7, Isiah is happy.

    Thats where the franchise failed, building around Curry; a one dimensional player who doesn't have the ability and will never have the ability to lead his team to success as the primary scorer. Curry's individual success doesn't have much of an impact on our team, and it still doesn't today. Same with Randolph and Jamal.

    I agree with Lee and Balkman starting.

    Ask yourself this...when was the last time you saw a Knick in the All star game; not dunk contest or rookie vs sophmore. I'm talking about a LEGIT all star game.

    I don't even remember the last time Marbury made the AS team(I think it was 2003)....Randolph has never been an All Star in his career. Curry - no. Crawford - no Q - Rich no

    Winning teams ride out with an all star or two...Boston has 3, Orlando has 1, Detroit has like 3-4, Cleveland has a automatic MVP candidate. While we're led by Curry and Crawford, with an additional Randolph(as if he was going to answer our weaknesses).

    But I can't lie. I was suckered too. I'm too in love with this team, when they start winning, I think playoff possibilities. But when I go back to my theories from the summer, I see accurate predictions.


    I'm just frustrated; knowing that nothing will be done to change. I've felt like this for 3 seasons:

    Isiah had the option to do this and let contracts expire and allow more cap flexibility. Nah, he didn't do that. Isiah just kept on adding "talent" and "talent" and more "talent". To the people who don't understand the game very good, they thought these were excellent moves and Isiah was a genius. Myself, I hated every single move Isiah did because it didn't address our major flaws like defense and turnovers; flaws created by Isiah's transactions.

    It frustrates me too to know it took people this long to realize this.

    Isiah will go down as one of the worst GM's in NBA history, the biggest **** stain in Knicks history and will never get another job in the NBA after this, I will guarantee that as I did predicted with everything else that has happened.


    ahhhhhhh.

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    without a doubt one of the best posts i have ever read

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    The Gold Mac MSGKnickz33's Avatar
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    Great post Metro. You told it how it is, very frustratin rite now bein a Knick fan cuz with Isiah and Dolan attached to eachothers balls, were stuck with what we got and what we got is an embarrassing failure.

    I love the Isiah-Curry comparison to a coach playin his son. What made Isiah think Curry was a franchise player? Curry was soft with Chicago and now hes soft with the kNicks. Hes a turnover prone center who plays no defense, cant rebound, has conditioning problems, and is mentally weak. Curry at best is a player who deserves good minutes off the bench, about 20 minutes. He shouldnt be playing any longer then that cuz he doesnt have the mentall toughness or conditioning to be intense really for any more then 1 quarter.

    Isiah is just as bad as Layden, the 2 of them are the 2 worst gms ever.

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    I remember when this forum turned rabid against Brown saying that he had no clue because he kept changing the starting lineup. So many people were calling for his head and begging for Isiah to step in and right the ship with his more "up tempo" style. Everyone here thought this was just what the Knicks needed; that they had all the pieces in place they just needed the right general to lead them. There were only a handful of people (including myself) that stood their ground saying that Brown was not the problem that it was Isiah and the players. It was Isiah's lack of vision and understanding the nuances of team chemistry. That if Isiah stayed in power any longer he would dig this franchise into a whole that they might never be able to bet of for a very long time. I say to everyone here in this forum who truly loves the Knicks that we are in for some dark years thanks to this man. This is just the crux of what we are in store for. Unless they can bring in a visionary for a GM who would really know how to make a couple of key trades; we are in for many years of uninspiring years of B-ball. It breaks my heart to see a hardwood floor that once instilled fear into the opposing teams. A floor that had Mason leveling Scottie Pippon every time he would hit the lane for a layup or dunk or Starks dunking the ball over 3 Bulls including Jordan. The famous footage of Willis Reed limping onto the court to use whatever he had left to help his team try to win the game and the series; the great Bernard King who could dominate a team even though he didn’t have the pieces surrounding him on the court, they never quit. To watch players sitting on the bench laughing and, at times, yawning when they are being embarrassed is appalling. I hate being the guy that said I told you so, but I (and a select few) warned everyone that this man would single handedly darken the lights on Broadway! He has come as close to destroying the franchise as it can be. Do not be surprised if you start to hear rumors that Dolan is entertaining offers to sell the team, and not to a local. That would be such a Dolan move! Rather than fire Isiah and admit that he put his trust into the wrong guy. He would sell the team to punish us for turning on him. It goes to show you that just because you come from or have money, you are not a smart business man! Would Dolan continue to employee someone within his cable company if they consistently made business decisions that caused Cablevision to loose money? Or better yet, would he continue to employee the person that constantly signed very lucrative long term contracts with other companies that offered services that did absolutely nothing for the future of cablevision or even enhance the cable experience for the subscriber? Essentially that’s what he is doing with Isiah!!

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    Larry Brown just was trying to make his player earn minutes. Isiah automatically awards minutes to Crawford and Curry no matter how awful they play within the team.

    I never liked the move either, cause I saw Larry Brown and this roster not clicking, especially since Brown was coming from a championship franchise. Its sad when some people use Brown as a scapegoat for Isiah flaws as a GM.


    hometheaterguy, I reconigzed you from day one; you envisioned the truth and what was going on. You didn't drink Isiah's juice(no homo) and didn't fall into the propoganda. We bleed orange and blue since we were born till today. We know basketball, Knick fans are the most intelligent sport fans in the planet; we KNOW whats good for the team and bad for team, and you and I preached that constantly here. I want to give you rep for never changing your viewpoint on this situation. Now its too late since everyone realized "now" Isiah is a bad GM, unmotivated coach and a terrible guy to have as president of the organization.

    Notice the people who supported Isiah post less now...**** them; I still watch the Knicks because I'm madly in love and I just hope to see Lee and Balkman and Chandler get some minutes but I keep fooling myself.

    MSG33, props for riding with us too. We gotta do something now and get our voiced heard to the Daily News or something.

    The fans at MSG are pussies, yuppies, tourist, and etc...they're not going to breakdown it real if reporters ask them.

    I'm done with school for now, and I'm not working at the clinic or at my school anymore....I got mad free time, so let me know what you guys want to organize, I'll definitely follow the plan.

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    Default Balance is basketball 101 but not the only thing lacking

    The article is a good analysis of basketball 101, that both the first and second teams need more balance and that this can be achieved by swtiching some of the roles for better chemistry and more complimentary skils. The fact that Isiah has not already done so may be more a testament to his deference to the oversized egos of certain players than his lack of basketball acumen, but it does also point to a certain weakness as a coach and the lack of a consistent general philosophy.

    However, as even Isiah has publicly noted, even with better floor balance, this team still lacks shot-blocking, grit, hustle, and interiior help defense from the frontcourt players (the guards do double low but ineffectively and counter-productively). This makes the complete absence of minutes for Randolph Morris and Wilson Chandler utterly inexplicable. Almost every other team in the league gives serious minutes to a rookie. One might understand the reluctance to develop the young players, if the overall results were better; but given the horrible record and the lack of hunger and hustle, it is sheer madness.

    Maybe Morris and Chandler will help, maybe not. But not giving them a chance to is just plain weird.

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    I disagree with that article...Marbury shouldn't play for the knicks ever...No one even likes the guys and he's averaging 6 assists per game not 7.3! For a guy who says he's the best, to have Nash avergae 12 assists in less minutes is crazy...Does anyone doubt that if we had Nash or Kidd instead of Marbury that Curry, Zach and Crawford would be better players...That's the job of a point guard...To somehow make people around them better...Someone who starts something not only for them selves but others on the floor. Marbury is just a scorer. When he doesn't get foul calls when he comes down the lane he's ineffective. He can't shoot. I understand Isiah's perdicament. But I believe there are a few starting lineups that will work. There's no doubt I am a Crawford fan but I understand that Marbury is blackmailing the organization and must start. If you start Marbury, Crawford and Curry shouldn't be in the starting lineup. The lineup should be:

    PG Marbury
    SG Balkman
    SF Jefferies
    PF Randolph
    C Lee

    If I were to run this team, I'd get rid of Fred Jones and Marbury My starting five would be:

    PG Crawford/Nate
    SG Jefferies/Richardson
    SF Balkman/Jefferies
    PF Randolph/Lee
    C Curry/Lee

    This squad is still young and needs no distractions. Leave that lineup and we'll be a .500 team. We need to keep Blakman or Jefferies on the floor at all times...Sometimes playing them together with Nate. When Nate's in the game, Jefferies, Balkman, Lee and Randolph should be in the game. Nate is a scorer that needs guys that compiments him on the floor.

    Our glaring problem is that neither Randolph, Curry nor Lee can block shots...We need to just live with it and put better perimeter defenders on the floor to protect them. With Jefferies and Balkman in the game all the time we should improve with a few games by sticking to the plan.

    Our only hope is for our defense to improve. Without Marbury in the lineup our scoring improves. But we still can't block a shot. No intimadation. Give Isiah some slack. We're going to need him for the draft.

    One other note, I don't see the knicks using off-the-ball picka and rolls to free up their big men and on the ball pick and rolls. What gives?

  9. #9
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    Originally Posted by nycefnl
    I disagree with that article...Marbury shouldn't play for the knicks ever...No one even likes the guys and he's averaging 6 assists per game not 7.3! For a guy who says he's the best, to have Nash avergae 12 assists in less minutes is crazy...Does anyone doubt that if we had Nash or Kidd instead of Marbury that Curry, Zach and Crawford would be better players...That's the job of a point guard...To somehow make people around them better...Someone who starts something not only for them selves but others on the floor. Marbury is just a scorer. When he doesn't get foul calls when he comes down the lane he's ineffective. He can't shoot. I understand Isiah's perdicament. But I believe there are a few starting lineups that will work. There's no doubt I am a Crawford fan but I understand that Marbury is blackmailing the organization and must start. If you start Marbury, Crawford and Curry shouldn't be in the starting lineup. The lineup should be:

    PG Marbury
    SG Balkman
    SF Jefferies
    PF Randolph
    C Lee

    If I were to run this team, I'd get rid of Fred Jones and Marbury My starting five would be:

    PG Crawford/Nate
    SG Jefferies/Richardson
    SF Balkman/Jefferies
    PF Randolph/Lee
    C Curry/Lee

    This squad is still young and needs no distractions. Leave that lineup and we'll be a .500 team. We need to keep Blakman or Jefferies on the floor at all times...Sometimes playing them together with Nate. When Nate's in the game, Jefferies, Balkman, Lee and Randolph should be in the game. Nate is a scorer that needs guys that compiments him on the floor.

    Our glaring problem is that neither Randolph, Curry nor Lee can block shots...We need to just live with it and put better perimeter defenders on the floor to protect them. With Jefferies and Balkman in the game all the time we should improve with a few games by sticking to the plan.

    Our only hope is for our defense to improve. Without Marbury in the lineup our scoring improves. But we still can't block a shot. No intimadation. Give Isiah some slack. We're going to need him for the draft.

    One other note, I don't see the knicks using off-the-ball picka and rolls to free up their big men and on the ball pick and rolls. What gives?

    Guy, when you play any sport; you have to go in thinking you're the best at it and have your confidence at the highest. Why are you knocking Marbury got raising for his confidence?

    6 assist is above average, especially on one of the worst offenses in the NBA. Marbury has keep his turnovers very low; around 2 a game. Marbury isn't Nash, but would average 10-12 assist playing uptempo with NBA all stars like Stoudimire and Marion, and sharpshooters like Barbosa, Bell and Hill.

    Marbury did average 9 assist for us with a line up of Anderson, Tim Thomas, Kurt Thomas and Nazr Mohhamed under Lenny Wilkins. He's very capable of doing these things under the RIGHT coach and the RIGHT situation. Isiah as a GM has failed Marbury and has shown inability to build right the team around your best player.

    No, Nash wouldn't make much of a difference on the Knicks. He doesn't play defense, and feeding Curry and Randolph only equals to low point scores and a lot of turnovers. Curry, Randolph, and Crawford's talent are overrated, they're not starting NBA players on a .500 team and NEVER will me, this is a prediction that will be held true till they retire. You're going to win games with a trio of losing players; plain and simple.

    How is Marbury is a scorer when he himself said its Marbury team? Marbury is averaging 13-15 points now. Before he was a 20-22 ppg scorer. Marbury has been the least SELFISH player on this team for the last 3 seasons. Not many NBA stars would give up their PPG scoring average for the development of Eddy Curry.



    Wow, Crawford can play PG but is a terrible decision maker, shoots a low FG% plays, no defense and has a ****ty turnover assist ratio?
    Jefferies at SG? How many perimeter skills does he have?

    Your suggested line up doesn't answer our problems. The roster itself doesn't answer our problems.

    We need to start over and rebuild; I said this 3 seasons again. Its too late now, but its better to start now than ever.

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    The Gold Mac MSGKnickz33's Avatar
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    And they need to start by shippin out Crawford and Curry first. These two guys are clearly the worst, with Zach closley behind them.

    Marbury needs to be selfish for this team to have any chance of turnin it around and makin a playoff run. He is the best player on the team, he is the leader and he is still a top 10 point guard.

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    Metro, I think you are being too hard on Curry. I agree with you that he is not a franchise player, doesn't give 100%, is a little slow, can't rebound etc... But's he a good offensive player. The team did fine last year with the "go to Curry" strategy. They were playing .500 ball for a very long time after the slow start until the injuries came. Even when teams started doubling and tripling him, he was still getting his 20 on most nights and hitting a high field goal percentage while doing it. The problem (missing piece) was that we didn't have any consistent ouside shooters that he could kick it out to when he was doubled and he didn't pass that well. The latter could be worked on. If we would have gotten Rashad Lewis instead of Zach, I think things would be a lot different now. I like Zach a lot and think he is better than he is being given credit for around here, but he is a total mismatch for playing with Curry. When they are together they both suffer. One of the two has to go or one has to become part of the second unit.
    Last edited by knicklover; Dec 13, 2007 at 12:53.

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    Originally Posted by NYKnicks15
    And THIS roster might be able to work. Id rather support a coaching change along with a trade for say Ron Artest or Ben Wallace but ey lets talk realistically here this is the new york knicks owned by James Dolan.

    There is a good article about how a simple lineup change could fix the knicks. its not one sided written by a knicks fan but a clear look at it. it talks about his first and second unit and how that makes no sense.

    take a look
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    basically.. Curry, Randolph, Richardson, Crawford, Marbury turns into Randolph, Lee, Balkman, Jones and Marbury. Id prefer to put Curry in the C and Lee by his side. but ey its still a good piece
    I think this guy understand the problems. His solution may or not make the Knicks a very good team, but they will be a lot better than they are now.

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    I'm all for a lineup change... the chemistry, motivation or whatever you want to call it is just not there. But for people to assume that Marbury isn't one fourth of the problem is purely ignorant and without basketball sense. Marbury, less a few games, has had a terrible season, offensively, defensively, and as a leader. the other three fourths of the problem is Zach Randolph, Eddy Curry and Isiah himself. Eddy because he has not improved from last year, i blame his offensive woes on the acquisition of randolph, but his defensive woes are just disgusting and his lack of heart on the court is terrible as well. Zach is one of the biggest chuckers i've ever seen, his defense is worst than curry's and him being on the court at the same time with curry is never going to work. Isiah's lack of defense schemes or offensive schemes that show off the talent the knicks do have is ridiculous.

    The starting 5 I would put on the court is
    Jones
    Crawford
    Balkman
    Randolph Morris
    Eddy Curry

    Bench
    Marbury Richardson Randolph and Lee

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