Marbury rips Isiah's idea of having Curry as the centerpiece

datruth · Jan 14, 2008

man i laugh at the ppl who still defend stephon, dont get me wrong though, when isiah brung in stephon, i thought he was going be our savior, and everytime somebody would critisize stephon i would be the first to defend em but now i see what people were talking about, when things arent going right for em, he's quick to knock on da next person, he only thinks about himself, since the larry brown year it seems as if his game is mechanical, like he dont play his game off instincts, the stephon marbury i know and loved would take the opposing PG(no matter who it is) to skool but now he's only playing hard when the opposing guard is one of the best in da league and dats not characteristics of a leader

wasnt this the same guy who said this year he was going average 10 points, 13 assists and 4 rebounds, sounds like a guy who doesnt really care about his scoring i thought this guy was a changed man after last season, he really sacraficed and played team ball and now he talking about "i get paid this amount of money because im a scorer"? F*ck outta here

nyk_nyk · Jan 14, 2008

donchris said:
I was a supporter of Marbury, bought a bunch of the shoes and all but Marbury is not a team player and isn't coachable. A 30 year old point guard shouldn't be the go to guy. Marbury seems to fit into one system and one system only, his own. The drive to the basket and pass the ball out won work on every play. That's pretty much all he's got in his arsenal. I'm not at all knocking his scoring ability. I'm knocking his decision making skills and leadership skills. This team is a miserable failure. There is no way that Curry/Randolph/Crawford/Marbury should let this team slide to only win 9 games in mid January. Any one of them should be able to put the team on their backs. All four of these guys need to be broken up. I can may be see keeping Randolph but the other three have to go. The only bonus to keeping Marbury is his expiring contract.

It appears to me that this team lacks defined roles. We can say that Curry is the main option and then Zach, but these guys will start the game off like that and within minutes ANYONE is taking shots. Curry knows he's the main option, but he's too vagina to call for the ball like the great Ewing use to do. Can anyone remember how Ewing use to literally scream at Ward for the ball?

I bet if you asked the players abour their roles, most of them wouldn't really have an answer for you. Each team in the NBA is like a machine and you need fully functioning parts in order to make it work. We have parts, but they are either too similar or just don't fit the machine.

WHY THE HELL IS QUENTIN STILL STARTING???? HE'S ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE THIS SEASON!!!!!!!! His trade value is low right now I can sign him for 4 years.

metrocard · Jan 14, 2008

datruth said:
man i laugh at the ppl who still defend stephon, dont get me wrong though, when isiah brung in stephon, i thought he was going be our savior, and everytime somebody would critisize stephon i would be the first to defend em but now i see what people were talking about, when things arent going right for em, he's quick to knock on da next person, he only thinks about himself, since the larry brown year it seems as if his game is mechanical, like he dont play his game off instincts, the stephon marbury i know and loved would take the opposing PG(no matter who it is) to skool but now he's only playing hard when the opposing guard is one of the best in da league and dats not characteristics of a leader

wasnt this the same guy who said this year he was going average 10 points, 13 assists and 4 rebounds, sounds like a guy who doesnt really care about his scoring i thought this guy was a changed man after last season, he really sacraficed and played team ball and now he talking about "i get paid this amount of money because im a scorer"? F*ck outta here

First of all, stop acting like we have any leaders on this team. Stop sucking Jamal because he's Mr. Nice guy off the court; on the court Jamal Crawford is one of the biggest tragedies on this team and is everything WRONG with this team. Same goes for the two cancers in our front court with Randolph and Curry.

Marbury was our savior for one season, I don't need to explain, you know what about I'm talking about.

Isiah failed to build the team around Marbury, stop sucking Isiah balls; Marbury tried to do everything he could to please Isiah; Marbury took Larry Brown's shit and try to be a "New" PG, and did the same shit Isiah. Both methods failed miserably. Marbury stop playing his game so two lesser players like Crawford and Curry could get their shots. Marbury has been unselfish on the court the last 2-3 seasons; and it has shown when you put the ball in Crawford's and Curry's hands your bound for a lot of losing.

Ask yourself this, why was Lenny Wilkens fired? Why did Isiah obtain Crawford when we needed a shooter? Was Curry a need when we needed post defense, rebounding and shot blocking? Isiah did everything in his power to.

How do you average 10 assist with a Shooting guard who can't shoot and is too pussy to drive to the basket and take contact, a small foward who's slow as turtle, shoots 30% FG and 20% 3pt, a PF who takes wild shots constantly and holds the ball for 10 seconds, and a center who takes 23 seconds to score and completely slows down the offense in a NBA era where fastbreak basketball is practiced.

Didn't Isiah say we were going to be a fastbreak team? Why the hell did he get Q-Rich, Randolph and Curry? I could really go on with the things Isiah lied to us about, but that isn't part of your concern because you're an Isiahsexual. It doesn't bother you if Isiah fails, when he fails, you look for escape goats to cover his mistakes. When Isiah makes a trade(any trade) you praise with no logic. It has gotten out of control to the point where today we are the WORST built team in the NBA and you still can't understand our problems.

Marbury's role has been diminished by Isiah, therefor expecting him to be a leader is idiotic. Crawford has the green light to chuck whenever he wants; and the offense is runned through Randolph and Curry.

Marbury's game is top 20 scorer and top 5 assist man when he controlls the offense. The last time Marbury had full contract of the offense back in his first season when he lead the NBA in assist and finished top 20 in points.

Now its senseless to talk about Marbury; he's not apart of this team. Isiah has made it clear he doesn't want Marbury apart of this team. You need to get the fuck outta of here and realize Isiah has terrible chemistry with the team, no understanding how to be a NBA GM, President and is a terrible COACH; if you can't understand that then you're completely lost as a Knick fan.

I realize Marbury's time is over, and theres no way he could do anything for this team with Isiah in charge. Lets see him shine on another team where he could actually feel accepted.

datruth · Jan 14, 2008

metrocard said:
How do you average 10 assist with a Shooting guard who can't shoot and is too pussy to drive to the basket and take contact, a small foward who's slow as turtle, shoots 30% FG and 20% 3pt, a PF who takes wild shots constantly and holds the ball for 10 seconds, and a center who takes 23 seconds to score and completely slows down the offense in a NBA era where fastbreak basketball is practiced.

Didn't Isiah say we were going to be a fastbreak team? Why the hell did he get Q-Rich, Randolph and Curry? I could really go on with the things Isiah lied to us about, but that isn't part of your concern because you're an Isiahsexual. It doesn't bother you if Isiah fails, when he fails, you look for escape goats to cover his mistakes. When Isiah makes a trade(any trade) you praise with no logic. It has gotten out of control to the point where today we are the WORST built team in the NBA and you still can't understand our problems.

Marbury's game is top 20 scorer and top 5 assist man when he controlls the offense.

I realize Marbury's time is over, and theres no way he could do anything for this team with Isiah in charge. Lets see him shine on another team where he could actually feel accepted.

first off, i just wanna say, who's talking about jamal crawford??

the first statement that i quoted, i totally disagree wit u, marbury averaged over/close to 8 assists in 3 seasons wit the new jersey nets, and the majority of da players dat played wit stephon throughout those 3 seasons arent even the NBA any more and werent good in da first place so u cant say stephon cant average more than 5 assists in this roster

the second part i quoted off u, i agree wit u, i still believe stephon is the most talented knick player on da roster and when he wants to he could be top 5 PG in da entire NBA but da thing is, its when he wants to.

and do u really believe that a team in da NBA is going comfort stephon so comfortable to the point where he feels accepted??lol

nyk_nyk · Jan 14, 2008

metrocard said:
Isiah failed to build the team around Marbury, stop sucking Isiah balls; Marbury tried to do everything he could to please Isiah; Marbury took Larry Brown's shit and try to be a "New" PG, and did the same shit Isiah. Both methods failed miserably. Marbury stop playing his game so two lesser players like Crawford and Curry could get their shots. Marbury has been unselfish on the court the last 2-3 seasons; and it has shown when you put the ball in Crawford's and Curry's hands your bound for a lot of losing.

I never thought it was a good idea to build a team around a PG unless he has the ability of a Nash, Kidd, Paul, Williams. Take a look back at the All-Star games when Kidd started every year. Normally, a team with 5 star players wanting the ball every night probably wouldn't work that well .

Kidd always made it work by making sure everyone had good looks and a good amount of touches. My point is that no matter who the players are, he and the others I mentioned will put guys in a position to succeed and that's the only type of PG you build your team around.

knicklover · Jan 14, 2008

Metro,

Isiah's strategy has been to get the best available player without much regard for the specific needs of the team or salary issues. Nothing demonstrated that more clearly than the aquisition of Randolph.

I'm sure his thinking was that we were getting rid of Francis who was basically useless here and bringing in a good two dimensional player in Randolph (scoring and rebounding). Obviously this wasn't very good planning though.

First, Zach doesn't fit with Curry at all. People that knew his game well (like you) knew that would be the case.

Second, even though Francis was useless, his contract was shorter than Zachs. So if we kept him we'd actually be in a better position cap wise at the end of next year.

In fact, the only way the Zach deal makes sense is if we trade him and get expiring contracts, draft picks or something we really need (we couldn't get anything at all for Francis) or if we trade Curry.

IMO, the way to build a team is to look at where you are in relation to winning the championship. If you think you are 1 player away, it sometimes makes some sense to do a questionable financial deal, to bring in an older player, to bring in a one dimensional player to fill a need etc...to get over the top. But the Knicks are far away from a championship. Our best hope this year before the season started was to get something like the 7th or 8th playoff spot and if we got really lucky a first round win before our exit.

Isiah has been running the team like we are 1 player away. That's why we keep taking on these bad contracts and getting limited players. Now granted, he inherited a mess and that didn't make his job easy. But if he just sat back and did very little, most of those original bad contracts would be gone by now (or close) and we'd have a team full of highly drafted young talent instead of a team of young limited role players and overpaid one dimensional role players.

I had a lunch conversation with one of my friends years ago when Isiah first came here and I said the best thing he could do was blow it up. I was right.

I'm not sure we need a total blow up from here, but we clearly need patience. We have to wait for a few bad contracts to expire and try to trade for expiring contracts and draft pick here or there if at all possible.

metrocard · Jan 14, 2008

I agree 100% on what Isiah should of done was blow it up and start with a clean slate.

You guys may be suprised with this but I was very skeptical of the Marbury trade because I wanted to rebuild; not reload.

Eddy Currys House Special · Jan 14, 2008

metrocard said:
You're obviously have a very poor assessment of Marbury's "talent". I'm guessing because you think Davis can dunk and Marbury doesn't means he's more "talented".

Here is what you're wrong about.

Davis gets more steals, but Marbury is a more capable man to man defender.

Davis isn't Kidd or Lebron, the last time he average 5 rebounds was his sophomore year in 2000. He has only had 5-6 triple doubles in his NBA career, check the stats and do your homework next time. I'm not here for your opinion or hate on Marbury, I'm here the facts. I'm not going sit here and say "Marbury equals Davis in my opinion", no, I'm going to post facts that back up that statement. Fuck your opinion and fuck my opinion.

Stop stop stop, you're saying "far" too much to stretch your point that isn't even valid. Marbury at his prime was one of the most explosive players at his position, this was known. Marbury DID IT in more games; where as Baron was limited with poor conditioning(there was a point he was pretty much the fattest PG in the NBA and was the worst PG in the NBA at keeping his body healthy; I'll break that down later in my post).

Lets look at the facts of history.

Baron Davis's season high in points per game 03-04
22.9 ppg
39% Jamal Crawfordish FG%
32% 3PT
582 3pt shots attempted
67% Free Throw %
352 free throw attempts%
in 40 minutes
on 3.2 turnovers.

Stephon Marbury's season high in points per game 00-01
23.9 ppg
44%FG
33%3pt
79% FT
458 Free throw attempts in 67 games
in 38 minutes
in 2.9 turnovers

The things I bolded signify nothing "explosive" for Baron Davis and stats that prove the fact that Marbury is a penetrator. Marbury had more points, more free throw attempts, less turnovers, and less minutes, and most importantly shooting better from everywhere in the court.

Baron Davis has been a CHUCKER for most of his career. 582 3pt shots attempted is absolutely pathetic along with a 39% FG doing his Jamal Crawford imitation, and your arguement has no base anymore; it shows that you don't know who Baron Davis is. In the last 3 seasons, Davis has attempted 7.1 three point shots per game and only making 32% of them. You can't deny he's a chucker.

Davis could of been a more explosive PG than Marbury but he falls in love with his inaccurate 3pt shot (32% career 3pt shooter) and has put his teams in bad position by chucking them out of games. Marbury is by "far" the superior penatrator, superior in getting to the free throw line and a superior shooter. I rather have Stephon at his prime control the offense than I have some 39% FG and 32% 3pt guy taking 600 three's and only 300 FT attempts along with over 3 turnovers. It really makes no sense to me or anyone in this forum how you could even think Davis is or was a more explosive scorer than Marbury. I'm guessing you think dunk = explosive, kiddy logic.

It makes great sense that durability has to do apart with your talent. You're not born with talent, you develop on throughout your career and IMPROVE. Davis hasn't been consistent in his career because he can't display his talent from being injury prone and not healthy or well conditioned. Thats his fault, like how its Eddy Curry's fault for not fulfing his talent.

Baron Davis haven't played 82 games 2001-02, and he only done that twice as a starter in his career.

Give me a 20 and 8 guy who plays more games and gives more production than an injury prone 17 and 7 guy who gives insufficient production and misses a whole lot of games.

Marbury has had a better career than Baron Davis, no question; but I'm giving Baron Davis credit because he is very talented could of been the best PG in the NBA if he had better conditioning throughout his career. This is his downfall and what set him back a couple of steps.

It takes a lot of work, talent and skill to have a steady consistent and rare special career Marbury has had and the numbers he puts up. 20 and 8 is too good to deny; taking credit from Marbury's talent tags the word ignorant on your head for being a bias hater instead of mutually understanding both men's equality of talent.

You don't know any GM's in the NBA, give me something that could convince me because your opinion won't do a thing except look for more things to correct. Its laughable that you feel your opinion that a bunch of GM's would choose Davis > Marbury at 25 is really random and the most comical thing said by anyone in this thread. Its like a reach, if this was boxing you would of been hit hard with a right cross for reaching and missing. But I'm going for the TKO, so lets compare the two when they were 25.

I believe Davis was 25 in 03-04(his career high season, if you wanna take the season before that his numbers were inferior)
22.9 ppg
39% FG
32% 3PT
582 3pt shots attempted
67% Free Throw %
352 free throw attempts%
in 40 minutes
on 3.2 turnovers.

Marbury's career high season in PPG was also 25, thanks for making this easy for me.

23.9 ppg
44%FG
33%3pt
79% FT
458 Free throw attempts in 67 games
in 38 minutes
in 2.9 turnovers

Basically Marbury has the advantage in everything, get mad if you want but the facts are the facts. Marbury was a better PG and more efficient player at 25 and for most of his career than Baron Davis, fact.

Stop making excuses for Davis, he has the worst shot selection for a NBA PG when he was playing for the Hornets and was a cancer and the Antonie Walker for that team for a while. Whats the point of having a post up game if you don't use it? Davis takes 7.1 3pt shots a game, excellent impression of Walker/Crawford.

One of the most athletic PG's in the NBA when he was healthy.

Basketball if not professional sports is about a lot more then numbers man so the stats you so proudly display to make your case is silly. As I said before Davis has dominated playoff series Stephon hasn't even come close to doing that. I never said Steph wasn't talented, he is. All I'm saying is that Davis is better. Watching them play tells me that, I don't need to go to some stat book. The way I look at it is, and I think you even hinted at this in your post, is which player has a higher ceiling, to me Davis does and anyone whos watched them play and doesn't agree is smoking some good shit. However I am not saying Marbury is no good.

4th quarter of game 7 of a playoff series do you want Davis on the floor or Marbury?

Before you bring up '03-04 again that was one of the worst eastern conferences in NBA history and they promptly got swept in humiliating fashion by the Nets where Steph got owned by J.Kidd.

If Steph is so great why aren't NBA teams lining up to get him? He's only got one year left on his contract and his cap number is actually valuable. It's hard to believe that Steph has destroyed his reputation to the point where his cap number is more valuable then his talent.

paris401 · Jan 14, 2008

Eddy Currys House Special said:
If Steph is so great why aren't NBA teams lining up to get him? He's only got one year left on his contract and his cap number is actually valuable. It's hard to believe that Steph has destroyed his reputation to the point where his cap number is more valuable then his talent.

his cap $$$ is valuable next year, not this year.. to dolan $20m is nothing, but ny is the exception. to most teams its a huge amount of $$$.
next year in feb when most of the $20m has been paid ny the knicks, his contract will have worth... till then...

MSGKnickz33 · Jan 14, 2008

Eddy Currys House Special said:
Basketball if not professional sports is about a lot more then numbers man so the stats you so proudly display to make your case is silly. As I said before Davis has dominated playoff series Stephon hasn't even come close to doing that. I never said Steph wasn't talented, he is. All I'm saying is that Davis is better. Watching them play tells me that, I don't need to go to some stat book. The way I look at it is, and I think you even hinted at this in your post, is which player has a higher ceiling, to me Davis does and anyone whos watched them play and doesn't agree is smoking some good shit. However I am not saying Marbury is no good.

4th quarter of game 7 of a playoff series do you want Davis on the floor or Marbury?

Before you bring up '03-04 again that was one of the worst eastern conferences in NBA history and they promptly got swept in humiliating fashion by the Nets where Steph got owned by J.Kidd.

If Steph is so great why aren't NBA teams lining up to get him? He's only got one year left on his contract and his cap number is actually valuable. It's hard to believe that Steph has destroyed his reputation to the point where his cap number is more valuable then his talent.

Kidd didnt own Starbury, you must be smokin some good stuff.

game 1
kidd-14pts,13asts,5rbs,5to,36.4fg%
Starbury-13pts,5rbs,42.9fg%

Game 2
kidd-15pts,8asts,6rbs,6to,54.5fg%
Starbury-23pts,7asts,5to,35fg%

Game 3
Kidd-19pts,8asts,7rbs,5to,33fg%
Starbury-18pts,10asts,6rbs,30.4fg%

Game 4
Kidd-20pts,8rbs,7asts,4to,50fg%
Starbury-31pts,7asts,42.3fg%,

Lets look at Starburys teammates:

Kurt Thomas
Nazr Mohammed
Penny Hardaway
shandon anderson
frank williams
vin baker
mike sweetney
demarr johnson
Dikembe Mutombo (missed final game, played 2 minutes in game 3)
Tim Thomas only played the 1st game

NOw lets look at Kidds teammates

Richard Jefferson
Kenyon Martin
Kerry Kittles
Rodney Rogers
Jason Collins
Lucious harris
Aaron Williams
Brandon Armstrong

For all the assholes (you know who you are) that bullshit about how much better the Nets got after trading Marbury, they didnt have R Jefferson and KMart was only a rookie.

No player on this Knicks team has had any fair chance of developing a respectable rep. Marbury haters can suck a dick no homo.

Eddy Currys House Special · Jan 14, 2008

MSGKnickz33 said:
Kidd didnt own Starbury, you must be smokin some good stuff.

game 1
kidd-14pts,13asts,5rbs,5to,36.4fg%
Starbury-13pts,5rbs,42.9fg%

Game 2
kidd-15pts,8asts,6rbs,6to,54.5fg%
Starbury-23pts,7asts,5to,35fg%

Game 3
Kidd-19pts,8asts,7rbs,5to,33fg%
Starbury-18pts,10asts,6rbs,30.4fg%

Game 4
Kidd-20pts,8rbs,7asts,4to,50fg%
Starbury-31pts,7asts,42.3fg%,

Lets look at Starburys teammates:

Kurt Thomas
Nazr Mohammed
Penny Hardaway
shandon anderson
frank williams
vin baker
mike sweetney
demarr johnson
Dikembe Mutombo (missed final game, played 2 minutes in game 3)
Tim Thomas only played the 1st game

NOw lets look at Kidds teammates

Richard Jefferson
Kenyon Martin
Kerry Kittles
Rodney Rogers
Jason Collins
Lucious harris
Aaron Williams
Brandon Armstrong

For all the assholes (you know who you are) that bullshit about how much better the Nets got after trading Marbury, they didnt have R Jefferson and KMart was only a rookie.

No player on this Knicks team has had any fair chance of developing a respectable rep. Marbury haters can suck a dick no homo.

Wow you guys are lost. Stop giving us stats and telling us they mean something. First two games were blowouts where Kidd dominated Marbury . The next two weren't as embarrassing but you never got the feeling the knicks we're going to win either game. I watched every game of that series and Kidd, who if you recall was playing hurt in that season's playoffs, (had microfracture surgery after the season) killed Marbury. It was to the point where all the talk was about how the Nets play as a team led by Kidd where as the Knicks led by Marbury don't and how it's fascinating to contrast the play of the two point guards.

Take Marbury's stats and put them where his career is, in the trash.

MSGKnickz33 · Jan 14, 2008

datruth said:
man i laugh at the ppl who still defend stephon, dont get me wrong though, when isiah brung in stephon, i thought he was going be our savior, and everytime somebody would critisize stephon i would be the first to defend em but now i see what people were talking about, when things arent going right for em, he's quick to knock on da next person, he only thinks about himself, since the larry brown year it seems as if his game is mechanical, like he dont play his game off instincts, the stephon marbury i know and loved would take the opposing PG(no matter who it is) to skool but now he's only playing hard when the opposing guard is one of the best in da league and dats not characteristics of a leader

wasnt this the same guy who said this year he was going average 10 points, 13 assists and 4 rebounds, sounds like a guy who doesnt really care about his scoring i thought this guy was a changed man after last season, he really sacraficed and played team ball and now he talking about "i get paid this amount of money because im a scorer"? F*ck outta here

If you read the blow it the F*ck up trade thread you would know that he was a scorer and a team player last year. This team isnt winning by running the offense through the 3 stooges so why not run it through Starbury, he is the point guard. And im sick of hearin this shit about him only playin good against elite point guards. I cant back him up with stats from this year but we all know hes missed some games and has had a tough year. Last year he was makin everyone look dumb and I give you credit for bein one of the few people who knows that he played good last year, Dicklover was too stupid to realize this even after gettin Deboed 8 or 9 times but you too hard on him.

Marbury should be gettin praised for criticizing Isiahs offense but he continues to get bashed by assholes who have been suckered into thinking the way the press wants you to think. Stop bein nieve and evaluate based on what you see on the court, not by what you read in the papers. This is directed to all Starbury haters. F*ck outta here son

nyk_nyk said:
I never thought it was a good idea to build a team around a PG unless he has the ability of a Nash, Kidd, Paul, Williams. Take a look back at the All-Star games when Kidd started every year. Normally, a team with 5 star players wanting the ball every night probably wouldn't work that well .

Kidd always made it work by making sure everyone had good looks and a good amount of touches. My point is that no matter who the players are, he and the others I mentioned will put guys in a position to succeed and that's the only type of PG you build your team around.

Theres nothing bad about building a team around a player whos capable of averaging 20pts and 8asts per game while playing great defense.

nyk_nyk · Jan 14, 2008

Eddy Currys House Special said:
Basketball if not professional sports is about a lot more then numbers man so the stats you so proudly display to make your case is silly.

This is what I've been trying to say to so many people on this site. Numbers never tell the whole story of a player. Great comment.

nyk_nyk · Jan 14, 2008

MSGKnickz33 said:
If you read the blow it the F*ck up trade thread you would know that he was a scorer and a team player last year. This team isnt winning by running the offense through the 3 stooges so why not run it through Starbury, he is the point guard. And im sick of hearin this shit about him only playin good against elite point guards. I cant back him up with stats from this year but we all know hes missed some games and has had a tough year. Last year he was makin everyone look dumb and I give you credit for bein one of the few people who knows that he played good last year, Dicklover was too stupid to realize this even after gettin Deboed 8 or 9 times but you too hard on him.

Marbury should be gettin praised for criticizing Isiahs offense but he continues to get bashed by assholes who have been suckered into thinking the way the press wants you to think. Stop bein nieve and evaluate based on what you see on the court, not by what you read in the papers. This is directed to all Starbury haters. F*ck outta here son

Theres nothing bad about building a team around a player whos capable of averaging 20pts and 8asts per game while playing great defense.

Now all of a sudden Steph is a "great" defender. LMAO! Please tell me when did this happen? I'm sure you have some stats to back that up right?

MSGKnickz33 · Jan 14, 2008

Eddy Currys House Special said:
Wow you guys are lost. Stop giving us stats and telling us they mean something. First two games were blowouts where Kidd dominated Marbury . The next two weren't as embarrassing but you never got the feeling the knicks we're going to win either game. I watched every game of that series and Kidd, who if you recall was playing hurt in that season's playoffs, (had microfracture surgery after the season) killed Marbury. It was to the point where all the talk was about how the Nets play as a team led by Kidd where as the Knicks led by Marbury don't and how it's fascinating to contrast the play of the two point guards.

Take Marbury's stats and put them where his career is, in the trash.

You call that a respnse? How did Kidd dominate Marbury in the 2nd game? Alot of players over-complain about injuries to make themselves look better. Marburys almost always playin hurt too and I wouldnt be suprised if he was in more pain then Kidd was for that series.

You obviously have some bias against Marbury. My stats show that Kidd didnt kill Marbury but even after I posted them you still dont realize this. Keep it up and youll get that PHD (Playa hatin Degree).

It is very clear that Kidd had better players around him, why are you on Kidds nuts? You must be a Nets fan or sumthin. All around Kidd is a better point guard then Marbury but not by a hole lot. Kidds a better passer and rebounder but Marburys a better scorer and defender. Im not sure what you have against marbury, or maybe your just another nieve fan who listens to everything analysts like Stephen A smith says.

MSGKnickz33 · Jan 14, 2008

nyk_nyk said:
Now all of a sudden Steph is a "great" defender. LMAO! Please tell me when did this happen? I'm sure you have some stats to back that up right?

This year Marburys a good defender but last year he was great. From January to early April when he got hurt he was runnin shit. If you watched the Knicks you would know. Clyde Frazier must of sed it everygame how Marbury was playin the best ball of his career and how he was playin great defense. And I do have stats to back this up:

Knicks points allowed month by month
November=102.1
December=104.6
January=101.9
February=99.4
March=94.6
April=99.7

Like I said, from Jan. to early April he had an impact on the Knicks opponents points per game. How many point guards do you know that can shut down Ray Allen? Dont question this, accept it because I can prove it with more stats. Take your weak opinions somewhere else cuz im droppin nothin but stats and knowledge bitch.

Before you continue to go on and hate Marbury for no good reason read the Blow it the F*ck up Trade Thread. KnickLover got shut down, you dont know who you F*ckin with. Why do you think Lil man Bklyn hasnt been on here in a long time? He got Deboed and your ass is next if you keep it up.

Eddy Currys House Special · Jan 14, 2008

MSGKnickz33 said:
Marbury should be gettin praised for criticizing Isiahs offense but he continues to get bashed by assholes who have been suckered into thinking the way the press wants you to think. Stop bein nieve and evaluate based on what you see on the court, not by what you read in the papers. This is directed to all Starbury haters. F*ck outta here son

Theres nothing bad about building a team around a player whos capable of averaging 20pts and 8asts per game while playing great defense.

Umm I dont know which papers you've been reading but the majority of the media has been on Marbury's side this season. As I've said before Isiah has been so bad that he's made the media sympathetic towards Steph. With all due respect you appear to be the naive (yes thats how you spell it) one with regard to Steph.

Great defense??? You're funny. He played d, inconsistently, for one season of his career.

I'm not a Marbury hater at all, he is by far the best player on the Knicks and I truly believe that he will bounce back well if a team gives him a chance. I have said that Isiah has screwed him this season and Steph's gotten a raw deal. However I am objective and Marbury's career has proven, if nothing else, that a NBA team where he is the best player isn't going anywhere. Do you deny this?

metrocard · Jan 14, 2008

nyk_nyk said:
I never thought it was a good idea to build a team around a PG unless he has the ability of a Nash, Kidd, Paul, Williams. Take a look back at the All-Star games when Kidd started every year. Normally, a team with 5 star players wanting the ball every night probably wouldn't work that well .

Kidd always made it work by making sure everyone had good looks and a good amount of touches. My point is that no matter who the players are, he and the others I mentioned will put guys in a position to succeed and that's the only type of PG you build your team around.

You never watched the 03-4 season, Shh. Watch and listen before you speak.

Eddy Currys House Special said:
Basketball if not professional sports is about a lot more then numbers man so the stats you so proudly display to make your case is silly. As I said before Davis has dominated playoff series Stephon hasn't even come close to doing that. I never said Steph wasn't talented, he is. All I'm saying is that Davis is better. Watching them play tells me that, I don't need to go to some stat book. The way I look at it is, and I think you even hinted at this in your post, is which player has a higher ceiling, to me Davis does and anyone whos watched them play and doesn't agree is smoking some good shit. However I am not saying Marbury is no good.

4th quarter of game 7 of a playoff series do you want Davis on the floor or Marbury?

Before you bring up '03-04 again that was one of the worst eastern conferences in NBA history and they promptly got swept in humiliating fashion by the Nets where Steph got owned by J.Kidd.

If Steph is so great why aren't NBA teams lining up to get him? He's only got one year left on his contract and his cap number is actually valuable. It's hard to believe that Steph has destroyed his reputation to the point where his cap number is more valuable then his talent.

Can you shut up about Baron Davis? I took you to school 5 times in one day about the whole Baron Davis thing and left you in a fetal position.

metrocard said:
You're obviously have a very poor assessment of Marbury's "talent". I'm guessing because you think Davis can dunk and Marbury doesn't means he's more "talented".

Here is what you're wrong about.

Davis gets more steals, but Marbury is a more capable man to man defender.

Davis isn't Kidd or Lebron, the last time he average 5 rebounds was his sophomore year in 2000. He has only had 5-6 triple doubles in his NBA career, check the stats and do your homework next time. I'm not here for your opinion or hate on Marbury, I'm here the facts. I'm not going sit here and say "Marbury equals Davis in my opinion", no, I'm going to post facts that back up that statement. Fuck your opinion and fuck my opinion.

Stop stop stop, you're saying "far" too much to stretch your point that isn't even valid. Marbury at his prime was one of the most explosive players at his position, this was known. Marbury DID IT in more games; where as Baron was limited with poor conditioning(there was a point he was pretty much the fattest PG in the NBA and was the worst PG in the NBA at keeping his body healthy; I'll break that down later in my post).

Lets look at the facts of history.

Baron Davis's season high in points per game 03-04
22.9 ppg
39% Jamal Crawfordish FG%
32% 3PT
582 3pt shots attempted
67% Free Throw %
352 free throw attempts%
in 40 minutes
on 3.2 turnovers.

Stephon Marbury's season high in points per game 00-01
23.9 ppg
44%FG
33%3pt
79% FT
458 Free throw attempts in 67 games
in 38 minutes
in 2.9 turnovers

The things I bolded signify nothing "explosive" for Baron Davis and stats that prove the fact that Marbury is a penetrator. Marbury had more points, more free throw attempts, less turnovers, and less minutes, and most importantly shooting better from everywhere in the court.

Baron Davis has been a CHUCKER for most of his career. 582 3pt shots attempted is absolutely pathetic along with a 39% FG doing his Jamal Crawford imitation, and your arguement has no base anymore; it shows that you don't know who Baron Davis is. In the last 3 seasons, Davis has attempted 7.1 three point shots per game and only making 32% of them. You can't deny he's a chucker.

Davis could of been a more explosive PG than Marbury but he falls in love with his inaccurate 3pt shot (32% career 3pt shooter) and has put his teams in bad position by chucking them out of games. Marbury is by "far" the superior penatrator, superior in getting to the free throw line and a superior shooter. I rather have Stephon at his prime control the offense than I have some 39% FG and 32% 3pt guy taking 600 three's and only 300 FT attempts along with over 3 turnovers. It really makes no sense to me or anyone in this forum how you could even think Davis is or was a more explosive scorer than Marbury. I'm guessing you think dunk = explosive, kiddy logic.

It makes great sense that durability has to do apart with your talent. You're not born with talent, you develop on throughout your career and IMPROVE. Davis hasn't been consistent in his career because he can't display his talent from being injury prone and not healthy or well conditioned. Thats his fault, like how its Eddy Curry's fault for not fulfing his talent.

Baron Davis haven't played 82 games 2001-02, and he only done that twice as a starter in his career.

Give me a 20 and 8 guy who plays more games and gives more production than an injury prone 17 and 7 guy who gives insufficient production and misses a whole lot of games.

Marbury has had a better career than Baron Davis, no question; but I'm giving Baron Davis credit because he is very talented could of been the best PG in the NBA if he had better conditioning throughout his career. This is his downfall and what set him back a couple of steps.

It takes a lot of work, talent and skill to have a steady consistent and rare special career Marbury has had and the numbers he puts up. 20 and 8 is too good to deny; taking credit from Marbury's talent tags the word ignorant on your head for being a bias hater instead of mutually understanding both men's equality of talent.

You don't know any GM's in the NBA, give me something that could convince me because your opinion won't do a thing except look for more things to correct. Its laughable that you feel your opinion that a bunch of GM's would choose Davis > Marbury at 25 is really random and the most comical thing said by anyone in this thread. Its like a reach, if this was boxing you would of been hit hard with a right cross for reaching and missing. But I'm going for the TKO, so lets compare the two when they were 25.

I believe Davis was 25 in 03-04(his career high season, if you wanna take the season before that his numbers were inferior)
22.9 ppg
39% FG
32% 3PT
582 3pt shots attempted
67% Free Throw %
352 free throw attempts%
in 40 minutes
on 3.2 turnovers.

Marbury's career high season in PPG was also 25, thanks for making this easy for me.

23.9 ppg
44%FG
33%3pt
79% FT
458 Free throw attempts in 67 games
in 38 minutes
in 2.9 turnovers

Basically Marbury has the advantage in everything, get mad if you want but the facts are the facts. Marbury was a better PG and more efficient player at 25 and for most of his career than Baron Davis, fact.

Stop making excuses for Davis, he has the worst shot selection for a NBA PG when he was playing for the Hornets and was a cancer and the Antonie Walker for that team for a while. Whats the point of having a post up game if you don't use it? Davis takes 7.1 3pt shots a game, excellent impression of Walker/Crawford.

One of the most athletic PG's in the NBA when he was healthy.

Eddy Currys House Special said:
Wow you guys are lost. Stop giving us stats and telling us they mean something. First two games were blowouts where Kidd dominated Marbury . The next two weren't as embarrassing but you never got the feeling the knicks we're going to win either game. I watched every game of that series and Kidd, who if you recall was playing hurt in that season's playoffs, (had microfracture surgery after the season) killed Marbury. It was to the point where all the talk was about how the Nets play as a team led by Kidd where as the Knicks led by Marbury don't and how it's fascinating to contrast the play of the two point guards.

Take Marbury's stats and put them where his career is, in the trash.

You get mad when we post facts(we're not only posting STATS so stop fronting, we're giving you analysis of Marbury's seasons with the Knicks and previous seasons in the league). You should be mad at yourself for not posting any facts backed up by stats or analysis. Telling everyone you watched every game isn't really a convincing "fact" try harder next time.

nyk_nyk said:
Now all of a sudden Steph is a "great" defender. LMAO! Please tell me when did this happen? I'm sure you have some stats to back that up right?

LMAO!!! This kid missed the 03-04 season and the forgot to the watch the Knicks last season, he styled on himself

abcd said:
What I noticed about Baron Davis is that he's not a real point guard. He's a wildguard. He shoots a lot of shots, and it's either feast or famine. If he knocks down the shots, it's all good, but when he misses, it looks disasterous.I like the way Davis plays,and he's one of my favorite players, but I don't think it's fair to compare Baron Davis to Mabury.Baron Davis doesn't play like a point guard, he plays like a shooting guard/small forward that can catch fire every once in a while. If you ask people if Baron Davis is a pure point guard, most people would say no.He's a good passer, but his shot selection is of a shooting guard or a small forward.

Yes!!!

MSGKnickz33 · Jan 14, 2008

Metro how many Deboes is that for you today, 9 or 10? lol they try to sound smart but all there sayin is opinions. We droppin knowlege and analyses' backed up by facts. Starbury 4 real is doin a good job of holdin it down.

I forgot to state my opinion on the whole Baron Davis vs Marbury debate. After Marbury davis is one of my favorite pgs and I watch GS all the time. I think Davis is having a better year then Marbury but is unfair to make Marbury comparisons with the circumstances of this year.

When you look at both of their careers Marbury is defenitly the better player. Hes got better shooting percentages and hes a better passer. Watching Baron Davis, I see that occasionally he has some good shooting nights, hes been doin better the past 5 games but overall he has alot of embarrassing Crawford type of games where he misses two thirds of his shots. Alot of the Marbury haters dont care about embarrasing themselves with stupid opinions that cant be backed by facts and false analysis's of their ignorant opinions.

Metro you won the Baron Davis arguement 4 or 5 times, you killen them. They dont know when to shut up but the more they say the less I respect their posts. NYK_NYk has lost all my respect, I think Ill skip over his posts from now on.

Eddy Currys House Special · Jan 14, 2008

MSGKnickz33 said:
You call that a respnse? How did Kidd dominate Marbury in the 2nd game? Alot of players over-complain about injuries to make themselves look better. Marburys almost always playin hurt too and I wouldnt be suprised if he was in more pain then Kidd was for that series.

You obviously have some bias against Marbury. My stats show that Kidd didnt kill Marbury but even after I posted them you still dont realize this. Keep it up and youll get that PHD (Playa hatin Degree).

It is very clear that Kidd had better players around him, why are you on Kidds nuts? You must be a Nets fan or sumthin. All around Kidd is a better point guard then Marbury but not by a hole lot. Kidds a better passer and rebounder but Marburys a better scorer and defender. Im not sure what you have against marbury, or maybe your just another nieve fan who listens to everything analysts like Stephen A smith says.

Again with the stats, dude are you a nitwit? The Knicks were blown out in that game in large part to Kidd abusing Marbury. Marbury padded his stats by hitting meaningless free throws in the 4th quarter of that game. You mention the Net roster which is fair. Let me ask you this though based on pure talent isn't the knick roster of the last 3 seasons comparable to that Net roster?

Marbury a better a defensive player then Kidd??? Now you're just being absurd. Jason Kidd has been first or second team all defense 9 times. I might be wrong about this but the next time Steph makes that team will be his first.

Besides Nate and Balkman, Steph is my favorite player on the team. Kidd over complaining???? Are you trying to be funny or just blinded by your love for Marbury? Microfracture surgery is career threatening. just ask Allan Houston.

Just the fact that you're trying to tell us that Kidd did not own Marbury in 2004 just proves that you don't have a clue. You must use the sweat from Marbury's jock strap as cologne.

Marbury rips Isiah's idea of having Curry as the centerpiece

Your Best Bet is B Ez

All Star

Legend

Your Best Bet is B Ez

All Star

Benchwarmer

Legend

Rotation player

Starter

The Gold Mac

Rotation player

The Gold Mac

All Star

All Star

The Gold Mac

The Gold Mac

Rotation player

Legend

The Gold Mac

Rotation player