At What Point Will You Say The Knicks Are Better Without Steph?

[nyKnicks126]

Yeah thats true. Its weird.. But I think one day we will come along and agree on more things.

[jimkcchief88]

you cant really jjudge by tht record, b/c our overall record sucks. But we are NOT a better team witout steph. He is a top 10 pg no doubt. When healthy he his the best player on this team. Steph steps up when needed the most. Do i have to bring up the stats from last year again??? There is no way this team is better without stephon marbury. period. wate a minute, i will bring up those stats one more time for all the haters:

DECEMBER

12/1 - 13 pts, 6 assists
12/2 - 15 pts 4 asst
12/4 - 16, 6
12/6 - 16, 4
12/9 - 2, 9assists
12/16 - 31, 8
12/18 - 29, 8
12/20 - 10, 9
12/22 - 19, 8
12/27 - 41, 8
12/29 - 14, 8

JANUARY

1/2 - 17, 8
1/3 - 17, 7
1/5 - 28, 4
1/10 - 24, 6
1/12 - 28, 5
1/15 - 25, 8, 4 STEALS
1/17 - 9, 8
1/19 - 23, 7
1/20 - 22, 6
1/26 - 9, 13
1/28 - 15, 8
1/30 - 22, 1


FEBRUARY

2/3 - 14, 2
2/6 - 15, 7
2/10 - 7, 6
2/13 - 8, 9
2/14 - 7, 8
2/23 - 22, 8
2/25 - 22, 2
2/28 - 23, 6

MARCH

3/2 - 34, 5
3/3 - 38, 9, 5 STEALS
3/6 - 40, 3
3/10 - 15, 5
3/14 - 31, 9
3/16 - 8, 5
3/18 - 21, 9
3/22 - 17, 6
3/26 - 32, 4
3/28 - 16,8
3/30 - 43, 3

APRIL

4/4 - 30, 6
4/6 - 6, 0 (12 MINUTES)

Are these stats from this year or last year??? How do you use last year's stats to prove how Steph is helping the team this year??? The bottomline is the team doesn't want to play with Steph(they voted and said as much) and Steph has proved that he doesn't like Isiah or his system and doesn't want to be here. It doesn't matter if he is the best player on the Knicks(which is debatable), he is not helping with his attitude toward the team. Basketball is a team sport and the most talent doesn't always win. The championship Spurs are the perfect example. Lebron James was the most talented player on the floor at any given time last year but the Spurs handled them easily by playing as a team. Haven't you played a pick-up game against so called players but beat them because they won't share the ball or are too busy arguing??? It is no coincidence that Nate and Jamal are playing better without Steph there. Without Steph they are sharing the ball and the responsibilities and feeding the post and everybody gets to eat. Even though the sample is still small being only three games the evidence is right in front of your face. Its like Ripley's: "Believe it or Not."

[GetRealistic]

All the Marbury fans need to just let it go. I never once said the guy doesn't have talent, but he just doesn't fit in with the culture and the players we have here. Personally I think he's to ME first to fit in anywhere he goes(just listen to KG's interview about Marbury)

Are we a good team without Marbury? No were still not a good team, but you guys have to be honest we are better without him then with him. Jamal is far from the protypical PG but i like him much better on the ball then off the ball. Everybody says Marbury can drive by almost anybody, but Jamal is close to uncoverable one on one, his cross over is rediculous. If he ever realizes this and drives to the basket more he has the potential to be a good player.

But back to Marbury, his time here has passed. I know some of you love him for some reason or another, but hes never done anything positive here so just let it go.

[Eddy Currys House Special]

It is unfair to say the Knicks are better without Marbury, because by saying that, you're saying everyone on the team is playing well and he's just holding them back. If this was true, then the Knicks would've started winning games in Dec., when he left after his father's death.The main reason the Knicks won these three games is cause Jamal and Nate were on fire all these games.It will be very hard for the Knicks to win, if these players get cold(especially Crawford).Marbury definitely has not played as well as he should've this year, but the bottom line is the Knicks have not played well this year, whether he's on or off the court. The Knicks only have 6 wins with him out of the lineup, and we're midway passed January. That doesn't look like a team that's better without Marbury to me.

That's not what the point of the thread though the question at what point would you be convinced that this is the case. For me if the Knicks play .500 or better without him for the rest of the season I'd have to say yes they play better without him.

[GetRealistic]

Are these stats from this year or last year??? How do you use last year's stats to prove how Steph is helping the team this year??? The bottomline is the team doesn't want to play with Steph(they voted and said as much) and Steph has proved that he doesn't like Isiah or his system and doesn't want to be here. It doesn't matter if he is the best player on the Knicks(which is debatable), he is not helping with his attitude toward the team. Basketball is a team sport and the most talent doesn't always win. The championship Spurs are the perfect example. Lebron James was the most talented player on the floor at any given time last year but the Spurs handled them easily by playing as a team. Haven't you played a pick-up game against so called players but beat them because they won't share the ball or are too busy arguing??? It is no coincidence that Nate and Jamal are playing better without Steph there. Without Steph they are sharing the ball and the responsibilities and feeding the post and everybody gets to eat. Even though the sample is still small being only three games the evidence is right in front of your face. Its like Ripley's: "Believe it or Not."

You said it absolutely right.

[nyKnicks126]

And the other thing Marbury doesn't deserve the money he is makin.... what is it 19 or 20 million per year? That is crazy not even Tim Duncan, Steve Nash, or Gilbert Arenas, or any other REAL All Star doesn't make that kind of cash.

I think Shaq, Kobe, KG, and JKidd are in the top range for the highest salaries next then is Marbury..

[George M.]

Are these stats from this year or last year??? How do you use last year's stats to prove how Steph is helping the team this year??? The bottomline is the team doesn't want to play with Steph(they voted and said as much) and Steph has proved that he doesn't like Isiah or his system and doesn't want to be here. It doesn't matter if he is the best player on the Knicks(which is debatable), he is not helping with his attitude toward the team. Basketball is a team sport and the most talent doesn't always win. The championship Spurs are the perfect example. Lebron James was the most talented player on the floor at any given time last year but the Spurs handled them easily by playing as a team. Haven't you played a pick-up game against so called players but beat them because they won't share the ball or are too busy arguing??? It is no coincidence that Nate and Jamal are playing better without Steph there. Without Steph they are sharing the ball and the responsibilities and feeding the post and everybody gets to eat. Even though the sample is still small being only three games the evidence is right in front of your face. Its like Ripley's: "Believe it or Not."

You're point is quite valid.However,I believe that the players that execute ball movement will help this team win and those who don't,help this team lose.

[GoKnIcKsDLEE42]

Are these stats from this year or last year??? How do you use last year's stats to prove how Steph is helping the team this year??? The bottomline is the team doesn't want to play with Steph(they voted and said as much) and Steph has proved that he doesn't like Isiah or his system and doesn't want to be here. It doesn't matter if he is the best player on the Knicks(which is debatable), he is not helping with his attitude toward the team. Basketball is a team sport and the most talent doesn't always win. The championship Spurs are the perfect example. Lebron James was the most talented player on the floor at any given time last year but the Spurs handled them easily by playing as a team. Haven't you played a pick-up game against so called players but beat them because they won't share the ball or are too busy arguing??? It is no coincidence that Nate and Jamal are playing better without Steph there. Without Steph they are sharing the ball and the responsibilities and feeding the post and everybody gets to eat. Even though the sample is still small being only three games the evidence is right in front of your face. Its like Ripley's: "Believe it or Not."

if you read my whole post-the stats were to show what he is capable of doing. Which is stepping up when the team needs it most. And what if steph dont wanna play under isiah's system? Do you want a jerk off coach gone, or a top 10 point gaurd gone?

[GetRealistic]

Isiah is a jerkoff and an awful coach, but hes still the coach. The players run the system the coach calls for.

[GoKnIcKsDLEE42]

Isiah is a jerkoff and an awful coach, but hes still the coach. The players run the system the coach calls for.

that wasn't the case with larry brown, was it? So why should it be that way with Isiah??

[nyKnicks126]

that wasn't the case with larry brown, was it? So why should it be that way with Isiah??

wow excellent point. Larry was a good coach and didn't have the pieces to build a good team.

[knicklover]

I don't think the team is better without Marbury, but I think the chemistry is better without Marbury.

What I am suggesting is that his teamates don't feel the same way about him as they do about each other. Last year there was actually some good chemisty between the players and between the players and Isiah. They liked each other. They respected each other. They played hard. The problem was the talent level, some of the young players needed more development, etc...

This year there has been a deterioration of the chemistry between the players and the players and the coach.

It started with the Marbury benching and his flight home and got worse as the team started losing. Since then we've had other issues with Zach's role, Curry's role, etc...

In any event, I think the players are trying to give Zach a chance to fit in and Zach is trying hard to fit in. I don't think the team feels similary about Marbury. They may not be a better team without him, but they are more of a family, more dedicated, more team oriented etc.... when he's out.

[MSGKnickz33]

Are these stats from this year or last year??? How do you use last year's stats to prove how Steph is helping the team this year??? The bottomline is the team doesn't want to play with Steph(they voted and said as much) and Steph has proved that he doesn't like Isiah or his system and doesn't want to be here. It doesn't matter if he is the best player on the Knicks(which is debatable), he is not helping with his attitude toward the team. Basketball is a team sport and the most talent doesn't always win. The championship Spurs are the perfect example. Lebron James was the most talented player on the floor at any given time last year but the Spurs handled them easily by playing as a team. Haven't you played a pick-up game against so called players but beat them because they won't share the ball or are too busy arguing??? It is no coincidence that Nate and Jamal are playing better without Steph there. Without Steph they are sharing the ball and the responsibilities and feeding the post and everybody gets to eat. Even though the sample is still small being only three games the evidence is right in front of your face. Its like Ripley's: "Believe it or Not."

They voted for Marbury not to play one game, not the whole season. I think several players on this team want to be traded so that dont make a difference anyways and other players have said that they want Marbury back.

Nate and Jamal have been playing better before Marbury left. Did you read my game thread? Look at the stats for both of them for the month of January. This is a talented team with or without Marbury but they are definitly better with him.

All the Marbury fans need to just let it go. I never once said the guy doesn't have talent, but he just doesn't fit in with the culture and the players we have here. Personally I think he's to ME first to fit in anywhere he goes(just listen to KG's interview about Marbury)

Are we a good team without Marbury? No were still not a good team, but you guys have to be honest we are better without him then with him. Jamal is far from the protypical PG but i like him much better on the ball then off the ball. Everybody says Marbury can drive by almost anybody, but Jamal is close to uncoverable one on one, his cross over is rediculous. If he ever realizes this and drives to the basket more he has the potential to be a good player.

But back to Marbury, his time here has passed. I know some of you love him for some reason or another, but hes never done anything positive here so just let it go.

What about when he lead us to the playoffs in the 03-04 season? What about hte way he played last year? You cant count the season Larry Brown coached against him or anyone else on this team.

That's not what the point of the thread though the question at what point would you be convinced that this is the case. For me if the Knicks play .500 or better without him for the rest of the season I'd have to say yes they play better without him.

At least your being fair

And the other thing Marbury doesn't deserve the money he is makin.... what is it 19 or 20 million per year? That is crazy not even Tim Duncan, Steve Nash, or Gilbert Arenas, or any other REAL All Star doesn't make that kind of cash.

I think Shaq, Kobe, KG, and JKidd are in the top range for the highest salaries next then is Marbury..

I have no problem with the money hes making because of what hes doing with it.

if you read my whole post-the stats were to show what he is capable of doing. Which is stepping up when the team needs it most. And what if steph dont wanna play under isiah's system? Do you want a jerk off coach gone, or a top 10 point gaurd gone?

He just did that last year and Im sure hes still capable of doing it now. I wish we had him, were only 6 games behind the Nets for the #8 spot and I think we would have a shot at making the playoffs if he didnt get injured.

Isiah is a jerkoff and an awful coach, but hes still the coach. The players run the system the coach calls for.

Its messed up how everything happened. Marbury wasnt playin the way he was last year but he was still playing better then Crawford so why didnt he get benched? Because hes Isiahs son and several players around the league have said this. Everyone knows it, Crawfords even got Isiahs number.

[GoKnIcKsDLEE42]

once steph's mind is right, and his body's 100% - based on what he did last year, he should play well down the stretch. And if he plays well-the players will appreciate him more, which means they will like him again-which creates more chemistry

[nyKnicks126]

I have no problem with the money hes making because of what hes doing with it.

You do realise that its crazy to make that amount of money... What is he doin buyin Starbury's? I mean a company invested in him he pays almost nothing and makes about 50% of the profits... So what is he doin with the money again?

Buyin Barbosa a car was nice, but he was goin to make millions soon anyway why not give Escalades to the fans 75,000 dollars per car. Instead of givin it to Barbosa give each fan 20,000 dollars so they can be happy. Thats spendin money right.