At What Point Will You Say The Knicks Are Better Without Steph?

[hometheaterguy]

You know the Marbury argument has been going on for so long here @ Knicks online and after going back and forth with everyone I have come to realize that there is clearly a line drawn right down the middle and either you are a Marbury lover or a Marbury hater. I fall on the latter but it's not that I hate him I just hate him on the Knicks! I think my posts have been consistent whereas I have always agreed that he is talented. He is a prolific scorer and he does put up tremendous numbers, assists included. Unfortunately his stats doesn't reflect his weaknesses, key weaknesses which are the subtle intangibles that seem to affect every team that he plays for. He is not a leader and he is not a visionary on the court. He is a 6'2" scorer, a very poor mans Dwayne Wade! Even though his numbers doesn't reflect it, when he is healthy Wade is a better over all QB that Marbury. Look, when he finally retires he will have impressive numbers and a legacy that will always bare this argument. Listen he has traveled from team to team with the notion that he is misunderstood and that he wasn't surrounded with the right team. When he is in a situation where the team is gelling; case in point when he first arrived in NY and the team was building momentum, he got Isiah's ear about Kieth VanHorn and boom, KVH was traded. Why? Because "Starbury" didn't like sharing floor time with guys that took away from his ball time. Marbury will reluctantly switch his game over to a pass first when the heat comes down on him for being selfish and then the team becomes very stagnant and Marbury's assist numbers go up slightly, his scoring goes way down and then the Marbury supporters come out and say "See, the team is not the same when Marbury is not the focal point". It's the same ol' dog and pony show with him. He has pulled this routine with every team he has played for. You know what, if the Knicks trade him tomorrow and they end up going on a tear, make the playoffs or barely miss them by a game or 2; the Marbury lovers will find an alternative explanation for why the team is doing better, like they always do. Marbury should be on a mediocre team where he is the star and that city is content with watching him do his thing and fall short of the playoffs or bow out in the first round! Oh wait, he is already in that City and on that team!!

[Kiyaman]

You know the Marbury argument has been going on for so long here @ Knicks online and after going back and forth with everyone I have come to realize that there is clearly a line drawn right down the middle and either you are a Marbury lover or a Marbury hater. I fall on the latter but it's not that I hate him I just hate him on the Knicks! I think my posts have been consistent whereas I have always agreed that he is talented. He is a prolific scorer and he does put up tremendous numbers, assists included. Unfortunately his stats doesn't reflect his weaknesses, key weaknesses which are the subtle intangibles that seem to affect every team that he plays for. He is not a leader and he is not a visionary on the court. He is a 6'2" scorer, a very poor mans Dwayne Wade! Even though his numbers doesn't reflect it, when he is healthy Wade is a better over all QB that Marbury. Look, when he finally retires he will have impressive numbers and a legacy that will always bare this argument. Listen he has traveled from team to team with the notion that he is misunderstood and that he wasn't surrounded with the right team. When he is in a situation where the team is gelling; case in point when he first arrived in NY and the team was building momentum, he got Isiah's ear about Kieth VanHorn and boom, KVH was traded. Why? Because "Starbury" didn't like sharing floor time with guys that took away from his ball time. Marbury will reluctantly switch his game over to a pass first when the heat comes down on him for being selfish and then the team becomes very stagnant and Marbury's assist numbers go up slightly, his scoring goes way down and then the Marbury supporters come out and say "See, the team is not the same when Marbury is not the focal point". It's the same ol' dog and pony show with him. He has pulled this routine with every team he has played for. You know what, if the Knicks trade him tomorrow and they end up going on a tear, make the playoffs or barely miss them by a game or 2; the Marbury lovers will find an alternative explanation for why the team is doing better, like they always do. Marbury should be on a mediocre team where he is the star and that city is content with watching him do his thing and fall short of the playoffs or bow out in the first round! Oh wait, he is already in that City and on that team!!

Thank You for the above RESPONSE.

Because the answer to this POST was answered in 2003-4 season when the trade was approved by the REAL Knick-Fans that watched the N.Y. Starbury career on the Timberwolves, Nets, and Suns.
It was called "Dont Believe The Hype" of a 20/8 career record"...

[nyKnicks126]

okay. one thing you gotta look at is... Marbury when sitting on the bench. Look at him just sitting there not talkin to anybody, having a towel on his head, lookin like he doesn't want to be there. I think its part of the reason the whole team sucks chemistry wise all together.. EC has no work ethic, and most of the NY players dont care if they come out with a W or not.

there are rumors about Stephon Marbury becoming wavied... I dont think its gonna happen.

[datruth]

It is not necessary for a pg to be a leader but when he's your best player, not to mention only established veteran, he better well be. His shortcomings as a leader to me is the biggest, most accurate knock on Marbury.

One thing you do not do with a guy who is not a leader is, make him the franchise. From the moment he got here this has been Stephon Marbury's team and whatever you want to say about him as a player is fine, but one thing that can not be denied is that he is not a leader. However, I don't really blame Stephon for this. If a good actor is cast in a bad role do you necessarily blame the actor or do you you blame, the agent, director etc etc for casting him in it?

Stephon Marbury was never cut out to play the role of a franchise player and this is what he was asked to do here in New York. I blame Isiah Thomas for this because he's the one that brought Steph here, gave him the keys and said this is your house. What Thomas should've done is said here Steph you could have a wing in the house but it's not fully yours. Soon I'll be drafting, signing or trading for someone who's house it will be. Instead dickhead Isiah gave Steph the house, then took it back from him to give to Eddy 'I-Hop' Curry and the rest is history

.

thank you, i've been saying this for a while now, isiah brung stephon to be our leader and he failed......now isiah wants to shrink his role but stephon is stubborn as it gets, stephon fails to realize that he is not a go to guy....if he would have realized he's not a go to guy then this guy would have never left minnesota and who knows, might have a ring by now

[nyKnicks126]

Good point ^.. Basically all these trades the Knicks had after the Marbury trade was to fill the gaps and help Marbury out did it? Nah. Actually it didn't help anywhere... Phoenix, NJ, Minnesota. and NY.

[Kennedy Curse]

thank you, i've been saying this for a while now, isiah brung stephon to be our leader and he failed......now isiah wants to shrink his role but stephon is stubborn as it gets, stephon fails to realize that he is not a go to guy....if he would have realized he's not a go to guy then this guy would have never left minnesota and who knows, might have a ring by now

im gettin tired of this...i came to realize all this stephon talk made me realize something...even if he is our best player in the knicks...HE AINT OUT GO 2 GUY...and i realized NOWUN IN THE KNICKS IS!...like c mon look who we have...we have players that would be 6th man for other teams...

[MSGKnickz33]

Did we all imagine Marbury leaving the team and flying back to NY when he found out that he wasn't going to start? I'm not saying that it's Marbury's fault that the Knicks have been losing since he's gotten here. I'm saying that the shoot first point guard or scoring PG doesn't work for this team so there's no place for Marbury on this team. The Knicks are better with out Marbury.

I tried to view this from every objective angle, from 'he's the best scorer on the team' to 'he's a born scorer let him play the two'. But the problem is his ego wont let him be a third scoring option. Reports have surfaced that several players have had issues with Marbury indicating that his presence is disruptive in the locker room. Marbury does more harm then good and sadly his time is up. I don't see how we can improve with Marbury as our floor general.

I agree that there is no place for Marbury on this team but I dont think the Knicks are better without him. You mention his ego being too big well theres gonna be problems on any team thats losing the way we are. If we were winning I think Marbury would accept his role.

I already said it about 6 months ago after the season ended. I just was pissed to see a professional athlete drunk and high on television "trying" to make a good name for himself sellin Starbury's.

Plus his previous teams he didn't lead them up to anything special. He is a talent don't get me wrong ,but a right team has to find him at one point. Do I see him a success in another team? That question will be answered as "No". He is simply done. No one NO ONE wants him....

I guess you dont give a **** about the community, Marbury did alot for underpriveleged kids. Thats messed up but I hope he finds the right team and proves the haters wrong.

Guys, can we put the Marbury thing to bed?

It is pretty clear his only affiliation to this team is by contract. Seeing as Thomas doesn't want him around, the players aren't saying they miss him, and with him getting booed at MSG when they showed his face on the titantron during the Win vs Wizards....He's not a Knick anymore, so I think its time to move on. It's in the past now.

Say what you want about him, but the bottom line is that the Knicks didn't do anything while he was here, and thats all that counts. The bad off court problems that occurred while he was here will probably be remembered even more. If the Knicks were winning, they wouldn't be the case, but we can't rewrite history.

We sucked while he was the focal point. And we still suck with him away.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that this argument is a stalemate.

Crawford is the new face of the franchise, so its his turn to start being the player that gets all the heat. As for Marbs, he's just an expiring contract for the Knicks to find a buyer for.

He did bring the Knicks to the 2003-04 playoffs before Isiah destroyed the team. And Datruth blamed Marbury for the departure of Kurt Thomas, Keith Van Horn, and Dikembe Mutombo which is unfair. The whole team got traded and Isiah was gonna trade everyone away no matter what, I dont think Marburys problems with these players had anything to do with their departure.

How are you gonna blame the Knicks doing nothing on Marbury? He did his job his first year and a half until Isiah started to trade the whole team away. The losing should be blamed on Isiah, anyone who doesnt blame this teams failure on him is an Isiahsexual. Check out his rap sheet. He made one bad trade after another. And since we got Curry this has been his team, not Marburys.

You left out the number one reason people hate on Steph, that along with Isiah Thomas, he is the face of the worst era in New York Knick history. Every casual basketball fan knows who Marbury is so if the Knicks are going to be among the worst teams in basketball he is the guy that will be blamed. Casual fans don't know that Steph's a very very good player but not great. They see his face all the time so they think he's supposed to be like the Ewing's of the world but he's not like that because he's not on the same level as a player. In many ways I feel sorry for Marbury. I can't waite until a book comes out with all the locker room stories of what really went on during his time year

lol its gonna be Jerome James that writes that book. I agree with what you said but thats from the perspective of the casual fan. I am more then just a casual fan so I realize that Marbury did his job his first year and a half but once we got Curry he was the face of the franchise. Maybe not to casual fans but to fans who read the papers and knew that Isiah kept runnin his mouth about how great Eddy will be and how hes the go-to guy(maybe for BK balue meals).

If we were gonna be bad, I'm glad that with Marbury we were at least interesting as opposed to some other bad teams who are boring as all hell. Does anybody remember any of the guys that were on those horrible Bulls teams after Jordan left? I never thought you could die watching basketball until I watched those teams.

The twolves example isn't really fair but the Nets were a 50+ loss team while Marbury was there then Kidd comes in and boom Nets win 50+ and go to the finals. I know other **** went down but guys ya gotta admit, it doesn't look good. The Suns one is interesting because sometimes I think people forget that the Suns were a playoff team with Marbury but Marion and Stoudamire hated Steph so I dunno. I think the thing with Phoenix is that how good Steve Nash is has made Marbury look that much worse.

I do have to admit it looks bad. But if you look into it deeper it doesnt look as bad. Kmart was a rookie when Marbury played in New Jerz. Kidd had Richard Jefferson as a rookie and Kmart in his 2nd year. Yes, Pheonix is better with Nash but I still think the Suns would be a tough playoff team with Marbury to this day.

Dude you gotta stop with the stats, pro sports and life in general is about a lot more then numbers. Also the kimbo slice I guess is something ya'll do on here but it's kind of ghey. It sounds like something you'd do to a grapefruit, sorry.

Most of what everyone has said here is opinions with some facts. I dropped opinions, facts, stats, everything.

It is not necessary for a pg to be a leader but when he's your best player, not to mention only established veteran, he better well be. His shortcomings as a leader to me is the biggest, most accurate knock on Marbury.

One thing you do not do with a guy who is not a leader is, make him the franchise. From the moment he got here this has been Stephon Marbury's team and whatever you want to say about him as a player is fine, but one thing that can not be denied is that he is not a leader. However, I don't really blame Stephon for this. If a good actor is cast in a bad role do you necessarily blame the actor or do you you blame, the agent, director etc etc for casting him in it?

Stephon Marbury was never cut out to play the role of a franchise player and this is what he was asked to do here in New York. I blame Isiah Thomas for this because he's the one that brought Steph here, gave him the keys and said this is your house. What Thomas should've done is said here Steph you could have a wing in the house but it's not fully yours. Soon I'll be drafting, signing or trading for someone who's house it will be. Instead dickhead Isiah gave Steph the house, then took it back from him to give to Eddy 'I-Hop' Curry and the rest is history

Alot of what you said is true but Marbury leds us to the playoffs in 03-04. In 04-05 we had Crawford chuckin shots and Nazr Mohammed got injured. Marbury had another great year but who knew this would be his last 10 and 8 year. In 05-06 Eddy Curry and is famous House Special came to the Knicks and became the 1st option. Larry Brown was the coach and in my opinion anything that happened this season should not be counted against any of the players on the team. That year was a disaster. Had Isiah done a better job of patching up holes on the team things would be completely different. It was really the acquisition of Crawford that hurt us more then anything. Once he became a Knick we started losing but the injury of Mohammed didnt help in that 04-05 season.

I actually believe that the Knicks are not necessarily better without Steph, but they are playing better as a team without him. It's like with Zach Randolph. Zach provides double digit rebounds and somewhat consistant jump shot, however, certain things he does on the court, sometime prevents the Knicks from optimizing his positive traits.

I believe that Stephon Marbury can be an asset to this team still. But not in a starting role. As it stands right now, and especially so if the Knicks continue to win without steph, Steph's role as the leading guard/player on this team has deminished. But his skills can still be utilized if he understands and accepts his new role when he finally does come back.

No one, who is objective, can say Marbury's skills are not still one of if not the best on the team. When focused on actualy playing the game and not on extra curriculr bull****, Marbury is still a real good player, and having that player, even if its in a more limited role, can only help to further the progress of the team.

Zach Randolph, during this 3 game win streak, has shown that maybe he is trying work within the team. Besides stretches of the black hole Zach, he has been passing out more and even trying on the defensive end and playing within his game. If Marbury comes back and is able to do the same, and be a distraction I believe the Knicks can continue its winning ways

Even if you take Marbury and Zach away theres still alot of talent on this team. But with these 2, if we could ever play together as a team watch out. And i thank the Knicks were just startin to play better 2 weeks ago (before Marburys injury). I believe that if Marbury was still playing we would still have this 3 game winstreak. Not bad lilman Bklyn

You know the Marbury argument has been going on for so long here @ Knicks online and after going back and forth with everyone I have come to realize that there is clearly a line drawn right down the middle and either you are a Marbury lover or a Marbury hater. I fall on the latter but it's not that I hate him I just hate him on the Knicks! I think my posts have been consistent whereas I have always agreed that he is talented. He is a prolific scorer and he does put up tremendous numbers, assists included. Unfortunately his stats doesn't reflect his weaknesses, key weaknesses which are the subtle intangibles that seem to affect every team that he plays for. He is not a leader and he is not a visionary on the court. He is a 6'2" scorer, a very poor mans Dwayne Wade! Even though his numbers doesn't reflect it, when he is healthy Wade is a better over all QB that Marbury. Look, when he finally retires he will have impressive numbers and a legacy that will always bare this argument. Listen he has traveled from team to team with the notion that he is misunderstood and that he wasn't surrounded with the right team. When he is in a situation where the team is gelling; case in point when he first arrived in NY and the team was building momentum, he got Isiah's ear about Kieth VanHorn and boom, KVH was traded. Why? Because "Starbury" didn't like sharing floor time with guys that took away from his ball time. Marbury will reluctantly switch his game over to a pass first when the heat comes down on him for being selfish and then the team becomes very stagnant and Marbury's assist numbers go up slightly, his scoring goes way down and then the Marbury supporters come out and say "See, the team is not the same when Marbury is not the focal point". It's the same ol' dog and pony show with him. He has pulled this routine with every team he has played for. You know what, if the Knicks trade him tomorrow and they end up going on a tear, make the playoffs or barely miss them by a game or 2; the Marbury lovers will find an alternative explanation for why the team is doing better, like they always do. Marbury should be on a mediocre team where he is the star and that city is content with watching him do his thing and fall short of the playoffs or bow out in the first round! Oh wait, he is already in that City and on that team!!

Not bad but I dont think Isiah traded Van Horn because of Marbury. Isiah traded the entire team away. There were no reports that Marbury had problems with the entire team, just Mutumbo, Van Horn, and Mohammed. Isiah got us into this mess, not marbury.

Marbury is a far better passer the Dwayne Wade will ever dream of being. While hes a step below JKidd and Nash, hes a couple of steps ahead of Wade when it comes to dishin and swishin (assists).

His weaknesses did not effect this team in his first year here, when he carried the team to the playoffs. When Marbury first came the struggling Knicks had a record of 14-21. When the season was over, our record was 39-43. We went 25-22 with Marbury. After that Houston got injured and we got Crawford in a trade and that was the end of the Knicks. Marbury averaged over 21 points and 8 assists but with Crawford chuckin up shots missin almost all of them and playing no defense, what pg could have brought the Knicks to the playoffs? At that point maybe only Iverson because the Knicks were in need of more offense so a pg like Kidd would not have made much of a difference and Chris Paul wasnt around yet. Michael Sweetney was gettin good minutes then, where is he now? As i mentioned earlier in this post, the injury of Nazr Mohammed that year didnt help.l

Thank You for the above RESPONSE.

Because the answer to this POST was answered in 2003-4 season when the trade was approved by the REAL Knick-Fans that watched the N.Y. Starbury career on the Timberwolves, Nets, and Suns.
It was called "Dont Believe The Hype" of a 20/8 career record"...

How about "Give the Hype a fair Chance", it was Isiah who destroyed the team. The answer to this post was in the 2003-04 season when Marbury led us to the playoffs.

thank you, i've been saying this for a while now, isiah brung stephon to be our leader and he failed......now isiah wants to shrink his role but stephon is stubborn as it gets, stephon fails to realize that he is not a go to guy....if he would have realized he's not a go to guy then this guy would have never left minnesota and who knows, might have a ring by now

Stephon didnt fail, Isiah did. Stop being an Isiahsexual, defendin Isiah should get people jail time. Do you think the offense is better off going through Zach, Eddy, and Crawford? Crawfords been playing much more efficient this month but who knows if it will last. Curry is a joke and Zach is also a joke.

On the flipside, I think if Marbury was still here and we were winning games he wouldnt be sayin **** like this and Zach wouldnt be begging to be traded. Winning cures everything. Players dont always make the best comments while their team is losing and this has been seen throughout the history of the league.

Good point ^.. Basically all these trades the Knicks had after the Marbury trade was to fill the gaps and help Marbury out did it? Nah. Actually it didn't help anywhere... Phoenix, NJ, Minnesota. and NY.

I recommend that you re-read everything here. Your thinking to simple, at least others have an open mind and realise some of the reasons why those team got better besides Marburys departure.

[hometheaterguy]

Originally Posted by Eddy Currys House Special
One thing you do not do with a guy who is not a leader is, make him the franchise. From the moment he got here this has been Stephon Marbury's team and whatever you want to say about him as a player is fine, but one thing that can not be denied is that he is not a leader. However, I don't really blame Stephon for this. If a good actor is cast in a bad role do you necessarily blame the actor or do you you blame, the agent, director etc etc for casting him in it?

I see your point but what if every movie that "Good Actor" stars in bombs at the box office; would it be fair to say maybe he is not really a good actor? Or, do you say that every movie that actor has been in has a bad director, producer, supporting cast.... See what I mean? If every job you worked at you kept getting let go because of your quality of work, would you say that all the jobs you worked at had mean bosses or bosses that didn't know how to properly use your strengths? Now, I don't blame Marbury for excepting the contracts that were negotiated for him or even going to play for a certain team; that's on the team executives who made those decisions. But when does Marbury stop being Starbury?

Stephon Marbury was never cut out to play the role of a franchise player and this is what he was asked to do here in New York. I blame Isiah Thomas for this because he's the one that brought Steph here, gave him the keys and said this is your house. What Thomas should've done is said here Steph you could have a wing in the house but it's not fully yours. Soon I'll be drafting, signing or trading for someone who's house it will be. Instead dickhead Isiah gave Steph the house, then took it back from him to give to Eddy 'I-Hop' Curry and the rest is history

OK, a couple of things here:
1) Marbury was the one who sat with a microphone in front of his face and self proclaimed to be the best point guard in the NBA.
2) Marbury was a pg in college and a pg when he came into the NBA.
3) When Larry Brown was hired as the coach Marbury was the one who spoke to the media and said that he was excited that Brown was coming because he was looking forward to having brown transition him over like what he did for AI. Then Brown was a bad coach who was to hard on them and couldn't wait for Isiah to come in with his more open offense. Guess what? Now Isiah is ready too shoot himself over this guy for the same reason every other coach pulled their hair out and Steph was his guy!!! LOL
4) I am perplexed by the comparison to Curry!! There is none period! Who would you rather have on your team; a 6'11" 300 pound player that plays no defense to spotty defense but can be a prolific scorer or a 6'2" guard that plays no defense to spotty defense but can be a prolific scorer? No comparison whatsoever. Don't get me wrong, I am sick of both of them but still.....

thank you, i've been saying this for a while now, isiah brung stephon to be our leader and he failed......now isiah wants to shrink his role but stephon is stubborn as it gets, stephon fails to realize that he is not a go to guy....if he would have realized he's not a go to guy then this guy would have never left minnesota and who knows, might have a ring by now

Exactly, the problem with Marbury is he thinks he is KG!

[nyKnicks126]

Ya gotta stop being on Marburys D!ck DAMN!!!!!! You call people on this forum Whatever Sexuals but you a MarbsSexual yourself.

If you take a look at my thread that I have made in the past you know that I truely like what he is doing. But I know people that are HUGE knicks fans and they say that Marbs is only like that in front of the camera..Which I dont know cause I aint in the same house as him. Maybe you are..And please dont tell me that I dont care about the community cause you wrong.. Shaq contributes so much money to funds for sick kids, and poor families, and he dont get as much attention as Marbs. Because if there was no attention there would be no Starburys. Its all about fame.

Nobody on this forum is hatin on you for bein a Crawford hater..

My thread.
Marbury on the Oprah Show.
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

[Blas]

The team is the same with or without Marbury. We do not have the players to play under "Isiah's system."

As long as Isiah is the coach we are better off with a lot of players.

[hometheaterguy]

Not bad but I dont think Isiah traded Van Horn because of Marbury. Isiah traded the entire team away. There were no reports that Marbury had problems with the entire team, just Mutumbo, Van Horn, and Mohammed. Isiah got us into this mess, not marbury.

Well you just named the guys that were key contributors to the success the Knicks were finally having with Marbury! So he didn't have a problem with Lampe... How nice of Marbury to give his blessings to a non-impact player! Someone who is not blocking his light!

Marbury is a far better passer the Dwayne Wade will ever dream of being. While hes a step below JKidd and Nash, hes a couple of steps ahead of Wade when it comes to dishin and swishin (assists).

Again you are correct if you are looking at numbers. You know Marbury fans walk around pushing the numbers argument. You know what Marbury fans are... Spin Doctors!! They are no different then that business analyst that you see on TV that says there is now recession and he shows the numbers. The country is clearly in a recession.... but look at the numbers, they don't lie!! No, but they sure know how to cloud the truth that is for sure!!!

His weaknesses did not effect this team in his first year here, when he carried the team to the playoffs. When Marbury first came the struggling Knicks had a record of 14-21. When the season was over, our record was 39-43. We went 25-22 with Marbury. After that Houston got injured and we got Crawford in a trade and that was the end of the Knicks. Marbury averaged over 21 points and 8 assists but with Crawford chuckin up shots missin almost all of them and playing no defense, what pg could have brought the Knicks to the playoffs? At that point maybe only Iverson because the Knicks were in need of more offense so a pg like Kidd would not have made much of a difference and Chris Paul wasnt around yet. Michael Sweetney was gettin good minutes then, where is he now? As i mentioned earlier in this post, the injury of Nazr Mohammed that year didnt help.l

I agree about Crawford... He is another selfish 1 dimensional player. So, yes Isiah needs to take the hit on building a team with all 1 dimensional players. So I agree that Marbury shouldn't shoulder the blame for the Knicks demise but he is a big part of it. Look at these past few games, how the Knicks have a totally different feel about them. Does this line up have staying power? We will see but it is clrear that with out him on the floor there is a fluidity that develops.

How about "Give the Hype a fair Chance", it was Isiah who destroyed the team. The answer to this post was in the 2003-04 season when Marbury led us to the playoffs.

Again, the Knicks went on a tear before Isiah traded about some key components, KVH to name 1. I am not a KVH fan per say, but when Marbury was teamed up with him, both in NY and NJ they made a winning combo for some reason.

Stephon didnt fail, Isiah did. Stop being an Isiahsexual, defendin Isiah should get people jail time. Do you think the offense is better off going through Zach, Eddy, and Crawford? Crawfords been playing much more efficient this month but who knows if it will last. Curry is a joke and Zach is also a joke.
On the flipside, I think if Marbury was still here and we were winning games he wouldnt be sayin **** like this and Zach wouldnt be begging to be traded. Winning cures everything. Players dont always make the best comments while their team is losing and this has been seen throughout the history of the league.

You are right about winning, it does change things. Unfortunately winning is something that doesn't seem to follow Marbury to the different teams that he ends up with. Zach falls into the Curry, Crawford, Marbury category; 1 dimensional players. I like Zach when he was in Portland and probably the reason why he looked appealing was his numbers (again see how numbers are misleading). He averaged a double double in scoring and rebounding...


It is obvious that the Knicks are in trouble and they have a full roster of players that are pretty much untradeable. Crawford could have some value to a team looking for that outside threat to add. Curry has value just because of his stature. The younger guys like Lee, Balkman have valuse but since their salary is so small another team would be forced to talk a bad contract along with them, so it makes it harder to trade them...

[donchris]

Are the Knicks better with out Marbury? That's subjective. Some say the Rockets are 'better' with out Tmac. The sad fact is that Marbury does not make the Knicks better and can't lead us to a winning season let alone the play offs. All this stuff about the community and the things he's doing is great. I'm wearing Starbury's right now with a blue Knicks hoody, but that stuff is off the court. On the court is a completely different issue. He should be mentoring guys like Nate and Marty instead of leaving the team and doing the towel head. His time is up. May be he can make the Hawks a better team or come off the bench for Tony Parker.

[Kennedy Curse]

who cares! hes out for the season...probably as a knick as well

[MSGKnickz33]

Ya gotta stop being on Marburys D!ck DAMN!!!!!! You call people on this forum Whatever Sexuals but you a MarbsSexual yourself.

If you take a look at my thread that I have made in the past you know that I truely like what he is doing. But I know people that are HUGE knicks fans and they say that Marbs is only like that in front of the camera..Which I dont know cause I aint in the same house as him. Maybe you are..And please dont tell me that I dont care about the community cause you wrong.. Shaq contributes so much money to funds for sick kids, and poor families, and he dont get as much attention as Marbs. Because if there was no attention there would be no Starburys. Its all about fame.

Nobody on this forum is hatin on you for bein a Crawford hater..

My thread.
Marbury on the Oprah Show.
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Now you sayin hes only doin it for the fame? That cancels out every good thing you said about him. I dont know what your religion is but Marburys a Christian and hes doin all this to help out, its all comin from his heart. Shaqs been doin it longer but he gets media attention for several other reasons. Marbury is gettin alot of attention because he wants to make sure people are aware of his shoes/clothing line. The more people who are aware of this the more money he makes. The more money he makes the more he donates. Its simple mathematics like 2+2 but I guess if you wanna have that unrespectful opinion then go ahead. You mite as well delete that thread if you think hes only doin it for the fame. Thats a fraud, givin him support and then sayin hes only doin it for the fame. Hes had fame since he came into the league.

I tell it how it is and I give credit where its deserved. Ive been givin Crawford all kinds of credit, have you seen my last 2 or 3 game threads? Im stickin up for Marbury because someone needs to. People have the most unfair and ignorant opinions about him. Everyone on here is aware anytime they make a negative starbury comment im gonna be there to defend him. I dont give a f*ck if you or anyone wants to call me a marburysexual.

Well you just named the guys that were key contributors to the success the Knicks were finally having with Marbury! So he didn't have a problem with Lampe... How nice of Marbury to give his blessings to a non-impact player! Someone who is not blocking his light!

Where the hell is Lampe now anyways? I thought he was the next Dirk Nowitzki. Thats what they said about him but Marbury did play well with the players he didnt like but we cant prove nothin either way. I think Isiah wouldve traded away everyone anyways even if Marbury did get along better with them but again theres no proof either way.

Again you are correct if you are looking at numbers. You know Marbury fans walk around pushing the numbers argument. You know what Marbury fans are... Spin Doctors!! They are no different then that business analyst that you see on TV that says there is now recession and he shows the numbers. The country is clearly in a recession.... but look at the numbers, they don't lie!! No, but they sure know how to cloud the truth that is for sure!!!

I dont always look at numbers. I look at all possible factors and then make my opinion. Everyone said every team Marbury played for got better after he left which is true. But are there other factors involved? Here are some factors which have been copy and pasted onto here:

Twolves-KG bein 1 year older, thats what most young players do they get better from one year to the next

Nets-Kmart was a rookie when Marbury played and the the acquistion of Richard Jefferson

Suns-Amare Stoudamire was in his 2nd season when Marbury got traded.

No stats, just facts. It can just as easily be argued that had Marbury stayed with any of these teams they wouldve still improved.

I agree about Crawford... He is another selfish 1 dimensional player. So, yes Isiah needs to take the hit on building a team with all 1 dimensional players. So I agree that Marbury shouldn't shoulder the blame for the Knicks demise but he is a big part of it. Look at these past few games, how the Knicks have a totally different feel about them. Does this line up have staying power? We will see but it is clrear that with out him on the floor there is a fluidity that develops.

I have to disagree. They were starting to play better about 2 weeks ago. They had a couple bad games inbetween but overall they've been more consistent in the month of January. Marbury helped out big time against Chicago by making that pass to David Lee and hittin the 3. No one looked like they had any problems with him. I thought they all looked happy and together as a team. Against Toronto he had 8 assists and played some good defense in both of these games. Theres no doubt in my mind that we'd still be on a 3 game winning streak even with him playing.

It was Zach Randolph that threw things off from the beginning. The team played better last year and Marbury was a big part of this with his excellent play on both ends of the court.

You are right about winning, it does change things. Unfortunately winning is something that doesn't seem to follow Marbury to the different teams that he ends up with. Zach falls into the Curry, Crawford, Marbury category; 1 dimensional players. I like Zach when he was in Portland and probably the reason why he looked appealing was his numbers (again see how numbers are misleading). He averaged a double double in scoring and rebounding...

True.......I believe that last season was a turning point for Marbury. I believe he became more hungry and had more desire to win. He played great, anyone who watched everygame knows this. Stats at times are misleading but several stats indicate that Marbury had a big impact defensivley and on offense. I wont pull those stats up until I have to but we mite never be able to tell if what Im sayin is right. Theres alot of different ways everything can go down so the only way we'll get our answers is by waiting.

I like the way you think with an open mind hometheaterguy.

Are the Knicks better with out Marbury? That's subjective. Some say the Rockets are 'better' with out Tmac. The sad fact is that Marbury does not make the Knicks better and can't lead us to a winning season let alone the play offs. All this stuff about the community and the things he's doing is great. I'm wearing Starbury's right now with a blue Knicks hoody, but that stuff is off the court. On the court is a completely different issue. He should be mentoring guys like Nate and Marty instead of leaving the team and doing the towel head. His time is up. May be he can make the Hawks a better team or come off the bench for Tony Parker.

Donchris your another one I have to give credit to. Metros right, he always says your one of the least biased posters and you do think very openly. I wear Starburys every single day.......probably not much of a suprise.

I think what you criticized him for is fair. He should be mentoring young players like Nate and Mardy. I dont see what everyone has against him puttin the towel on his head but its kind of funny how everyone brings that up.

Im not sure what point guards could have led this Knicks team to a winning season or the playoffs. Crawfords pickin it up now but on the year his shooting percentages are poor, Richardsons are depressing. Zach is the black hole and Curry is Curry, inconsistent. I think it would take a point guard with passing skills and great scoring ability like Chris Paul. I dont think Kidd or nash would take this team anywhere.

Had we never acquired Randolph, would things be different now? The team was playing together and Marbury was Starbury. Last year was exciting until Lee and Crawford got hurt and its too bad we didnt make the playoffs but who knows how things wouldve went if we never got Z-Bo. All we can do is speculate.

Here are some quotes I found with the assistance of NYknicks126:

Marbury is the god damn man. He's the only guy in the NBA who wanted to be a Knick all his life, and wants to stay and retire in New York. He made huge adjustments this season to prove he's worthy of being the PG of this team the next 3-5 years. He's so talented and lays it all on the court all the time, forget his track record of loses. You gives you consistant offense and defense.

Marbury has done so much for the community too by giving less-privileged kids the opportunity to have big-name basketball shoes, help for Katrina victims (donated $1 million to help victims of Hurricane Katrina) and also pays for seven barbers on Coney Island to give free haircuts to neighborhood kids...plus all his basketball camps.

Marbury is that dude, he bought Leandro Barbosa a car in his rookie year to welcome him to the NBA. Barbosa cried when Steph left PHX. Lee, Robinson, and Frye were all bought suits by Stephon when it was the new NBA dress code enforced stricter rules.

Anyone who hates on Marbury is a blind hater.

I just wished more people in the NBA became more aware of Marbury's actions and his true side. Everyone seems so quick to label him as a cancer and a player with a bad attitude which is totally false.

it's sad when marbury gets more press for calling himself the best point guard in the league than for the positivity he puts out... i guess when the knicks start making the playoffs people will be forced to recognize...

Metro knows the deal, anyone who watched Starbury last year saw him fit in with this team and play the best basketball of his career. I know things have been messed up so far this year but heres a quote from myself earlier in this thread that lists all the factors that have made this a tough year for Marbury:

• losing his aunt
• Being removed from starting lineup while Crawford wasnt
• Fathers death
• injury

Heres some other factors that have led to our record of 12 and 26:

• Q-Rich sucks
• Crawfords slow start
• Nate not gettin minutes earlier in the season
• Balkmans finally playin now
• Acquisition of Z-Bo
• Z-Bo effecting Currys overall play
• Isiah blaming fans
• Isiahs questionable starting lineups and rotations
• Isiah Thomas

Isiah deserves almost all the blame for everything that has gone wrong with this team since he came here.

Heres some stats from my game thread that shows that the Knicks were playing better before Marbury got hurt, not just the last 3 games.

The whole Season
Knicks ppg-94.6
Knicks oppg-100.7

January
Knicks ppg-97
Knicks oppg-96.7

Im not sure how much more I can defend Marbury then I already have but to me its worth it. I remember how he played last year and all the people he had a positive impact on over the summer.

[Pricey]

Man u do ur work MSG lol.

People always have and will look at the negatives ahead of the positives so he is in a no win situation. Either way we have to move on cause i doubt he will be back but i hope its not the last we see of him.