At What Point Will You Say The Knicks Are Better Without Steph?

When will you say/admit that the Knicks are a better team without Stephon Marbury?

  • If the Knicks get to ten games over .500 in games played without him

    Votes: 2 8.7%
  • ... 5 games over .500 in games played without him

    Votes: 1 4.3%
  • ... get to .500 in games played without him

    Votes: 3 13.0%
  • No matter how much they win or lose they're already better.

    Votes: 9 39.1%
  • Just coincidence/bad luck that its happened for the 4th time in his career, should change his #to 13

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Pfft you know nothing about basketball, he is and always will be Starbury so fuck all you haters.

    Votes: 8 34.8%

  • Total voters
    23

nyKnicks126

Go 1990s New York Knicks!
And the other thing Marbury doesn't deserve the money he is makin.... what is it 19 or 20 million per year? That is crazy not even Tim Duncan, Steve Nash, or Gilbert Arenas, or any other REAL All Star doesn't make that kind of cash.

I think Shaq, Kobe, KG, and JKidd are in the top range for the highest salaries next then is Marbury..
 

George M.

Benchwarmer
Are these stats from this year or last year??? How do you use last year's stats to prove how Steph is helping the team this year??? The bottomline is the team doesn't want to play with Steph(they voted and said as much) and Steph has proved that he doesn't like Isiah or his system and doesn't want to be here. It doesn't matter if he is the best player on the Knicks(which is debatable), he is not helping with his attitude toward the team. Basketball is a team sport and the most talent doesn't always win. The championship Spurs are the perfect example. Lebron James was the most talented player on the floor at any given time last year but the Spurs handled them easily by playing as a team. Haven't you played a pick-up game against so called players but beat them because they won't share the ball or are too busy arguing??? It is no coincidence that Nate and Jamal are playing better without Steph there. Without Steph they are sharing the ball and the responsibilities and feeding the post and everybody gets to eat. Even though the sample is still small being only three games the evidence is right in front of your face. Its like Ripley's: "Believe it or Not."
You're point is quite valid.However,I believe that the players that execute ball movement will help this team win and those who don't,help this team lose.
 
Are these stats from this year or last year??? How do you use last year's stats to prove how Steph is helping the team this year??? The bottomline is the team doesn't want to play with Steph(they voted and said as much) and Steph has proved that he doesn't like Isiah or his system and doesn't want to be here. It doesn't matter if he is the best player on the Knicks(which is debatable), he is not helping with his attitude toward the team. Basketball is a team sport and the most talent doesn't always win. The championship Spurs are the perfect example. Lebron James was the most talented player on the floor at any given time last year but the Spurs handled them easily by playing as a team. Haven't you played a pick-up game against so called players but beat them because they won't share the ball or are too busy arguing??? It is no coincidence that Nate and Jamal are playing better without Steph there. Without Steph they are sharing the ball and the responsibilities and feeding the post and everybody gets to eat. Even though the sample is still small being only three games the evidence is right in front of your face. Its like Ripley's: "Believe it or Not."
if you read my whole post-the stats were to show what he is capable of doing. Which is stepping up when the team needs it most. And what if steph dont wanna play under isiah's system? Do you want a jerk off coach gone, or a top 10 point gaurd gone?
 

knicklover

Benchwarmer
I don't think the team is better without Marbury, but I think the chemistry is better without Marbury.

What I am suggesting is that his teamates don't feel the same way about him as they do about each other. Last year there was actually some good chemisty between the players and between the players and Isiah. They liked each other. They respected each other. They played hard. The problem was the talent level, some of the young players needed more development, etc...

This year there has been a deterioration of the chemistry between the players and the players and the coach.

It started with the Marbury benching and his flight home and got worse as the team started losing. Since then we've had other issues with Zach's role, Curry's role, etc...

In any event, I think the players are trying to give Zach a chance to fit in and Zach is trying hard to fit in. I don't think the team feels similary about Marbury. They may not be a better team without him, but they are more of a family, more dedicated, more team oriented etc.... when he's out.
 

MSGKnickz33

The Gold Mac
Are these stats from this year or last year??? How do you use last year's stats to prove how Steph is helping the team this year??? The bottomline is the team doesn't want to play with Steph(they voted and said as much) and Steph has proved that he doesn't like Isiah or his system and doesn't want to be here. It doesn't matter if he is the best player on the Knicks(which is debatable), he is not helping with his attitude toward the team. Basketball is a team sport and the most talent doesn't always win. The championship Spurs are the perfect example. Lebron James was the most talented player on the floor at any given time last year but the Spurs handled them easily by playing as a team. Haven't you played a pick-up game against so called players but beat them because they won't share the ball or are too busy arguing??? It is no coincidence that Nate and Jamal are playing better without Steph there. Without Steph they are sharing the ball and the responsibilities and feeding the post and everybody gets to eat. Even though the sample is still small being only three games the evidence is right in front of your face. Its like Ripley's: "Believe it or Not."

They voted for Marbury not to play one game, not the whole season. I think several players on this team want to be traded so that dont make a difference anyways and other players have said that they want Marbury back.

Nate and Jamal have been playing better before Marbury left. Did you read my game thread? Look at the stats for both of them for the month of January. This is a talented team with or without Marbury but they are definitly better with him.

All the Marbury fans need to just let it go. I never once said the guy doesn't have talent, but he just doesn't fit in with the culture and the players we have here. Personally I think he's to ME first to fit in anywhere he goes(just listen to KG's interview about Marbury)

Are we a good team without Marbury? No were still not a good team, but you guys have to be honest we are better without him then with him. Jamal is far from the protypical PG but i like him much better on the ball then off the ball. Everybody says Marbury can drive by almost anybody, but Jamal is close to uncoverable one on one, his cross over is rediculous. If he ever realizes this and drives to the basket more he has the potential to be a good player.

But back to Marbury, his time here has passed. I know some of you love him for some reason or another, but hes never done anything positive here so just let it go.

What about when he lead us to the playoffs in the 03-04 season? What about hte way he played last year? You cant count the season Larry Brown coached against him or anyone else on this team.

That's not what the point of the thread though the question at what point would you be convinced that this is the case. For me if the Knicks play .500 or better without him for the rest of the season I'd have to say yes they play better without him.

At least your being fair

And the other thing Marbury doesn't deserve the money he is makin.... what is it 19 or 20 million per year? That is crazy not even Tim Duncan, Steve Nash, or Gilbert Arenas, or any other REAL All Star doesn't make that kind of cash.

I think Shaq, Kobe, KG, and JKidd are in the top range for the highest salaries next then is Marbury..

I have no problem with the money hes making because of what hes doing with it.

if you read my whole post-the stats were to show what he is capable of doing. Which is stepping up when the team needs it most. And what if steph dont wanna play under isiah's system? Do you want a jerk off coach gone, or a top 10 point gaurd gone?

He just did that last year and Im sure hes still capable of doing it now. I wish we had him, were only 6 games behind the Nets for the #8 spot and I think we would have a shot at making the playoffs if he didnt get injured.

Isiah is a jerkoff and an awful coach, but hes still the coach. The players run the system the coach calls for.

Its messed up how everything happened. Marbury wasnt playin the way he was last year but he was still playing better then Crawford so why didnt he get benched? Because hes Isiahs son and several players around the league have said this. Everyone knows it, Crawfords even got Isiahs number.
 
once steph's mind is right, and his body's 100% - based on what he did last year, he should play well down the stretch. And if he plays well-the players will appreciate him more, which means they will like him again-which creates more chemistry
 

nyKnicks126

Go 1990s New York Knicks!
I have no problem with the money hes making because of what hes doing with it.

You do realise that its crazy to make that amount of money... What is he doin buyin Starbury's? I mean a company invested in him he pays almost nothing and makes about 50% of the profits... So what is he doin with the money again?

Buyin Barbosa a car was nice, but he was goin to make millions soon anyway why not give Escalades to the fans 75,000 dollars per car. Instead of givin it to Barbosa give each fan 20,000 dollars so they can be happy. Thats spendin money right.
 

MSGKnickz33

The Gold Mac
I don't think the team is better without Marbury, but I think the chemistry is better without Marbury.

What I am suggesting is that his teamates don't feel the same way about him as they do about each other. Last year there was actually some good chemisty between the players and between the players and Isiah. They liked each other. They respected each other. They played hard. The problem was the talent level, some of the young players needed more development, etc...

This year there has been a deterioration of the chemistry between the players and the players and the coach.

It started with the Marbury benching and his flight home and got worse as the team started losing. Since then we've had other issues with Zach's role, Curry's role, etc...

In any event, I think the players are trying to give Zach a chance to fit in and Zach is trying hard to fit in. I don't think the team feels similary about Marbury. They may not be a better team without him, but they are more of a family, more dedicated, more team oriented etc.... when he's out.

I partially agree but I think if we never got Zach Randolph none of this would have happened and we would be holdin down that #8 spot. I think Marbury really came around last year and re-became part of the team. In 03-04 he led an ok team to the playoffs that did get swept by New Jersey. After that Isiah made too many trades and most pg's would have had problems. But last year everyone on the team had chemistry and Marbury played great from Jan. to early April. You seen my stats already. The addition of Randolph destroyed last years chemistry.

The question should be had Isiah never traded for Zach Randolph, how much better would the knicks be this year?
 

MSGKnickz33

The Gold Mac
You do realise that its crazy to make that amount of money... What is he doin buyin Starbury's? I mean a company invested in him he pays almost nothing and makes about 50% of the profits... So what is he doin with the money again?

Buyin Barbosa a car was nice, but he was goin to make millions soon anyway why not give Escalades to the fans 75,000 dollars per car. Instead of givin it to Barbosa give each fan 20,000 dollars so they can be happy. Thats spendin money right.

I dont think hes even keepin any of the money he makes off the Starburys, I heard hes donating all of it or almost all of it. Hes donated more money then anyone else, remember hurricane Katrina? He spent all kinds of time with fans over the summer and donated thousands and thousands of pairs of shoes. He does as much for the community as anyone else and it would be nice to see people appreciate it more. I cant believe this is even bein brought up, we aint suppose to be talkin about off the court stuff. Off the court hes still a star. On the court hes a B level player.
 
The question should be had Isiah never traded for Zach Randolph, how much better would the knicks be this year?
Without zach, its basically the same team as last year. Based on the chemistry of last year, this team minus zach would be a top 8 team in the east. We had momentum with this team right up until David got hurt-thats when it started to slow-and when steph got hurt-thats when it stopped and thats the reason we didnt make the playoffs.

About the money-i personally think steph is deff over payed. like nyknicks126 said-the top 2 pg's in the nba aren't making that much. He deserves a big contract-but not a monster one.
 

MSGKnickz33

The Gold Mac
He is overpayed but Id rather see him gettin overpaid then alot of other players in the league. Hes doin the right thing with the money. How many other athletes can say that they sell their shoes for $15 so that kids without money can afford them? Hes got a big heart on and off the court. Hes also had alot of bad luck this year.
 

knicklover

Benchwarmer
I partially agree but I think if we never got Zach Randolph none of this would have happened and we would be holdin down that #8 spot. I think Marbury really came around last year and re-became part of the team. In 03-04 he led an ok team to the playoffs that did get swept by New Jersey. After that Isiah made too many trades and most pg's would have had problems. But last year everyone on the team had chemistry and Marbury played great from Jan. to early April. You seen my stats already. The addition of Randolph destroyed last years chemistry.

The question should be had Isiah never traded for Zach Randolph, how much better would the knicks be this year?

I think if we didn't get Zach, there would be fewer chemistry issues, but I think we would still suck. The reason I say that is that so many teams in the East improved sharply via trade (Orlando and Boston being the most obvious) or have young players that clearly developed. The Knicks would have come back with the same team. I think Isiah knew the Knicks had to upgrade at at least one positon. He just picked the wrong player. We needed a different kind of PF or a SF that could shoot from outside.
 

MSGKnickz33

The Gold Mac
I dont know how Marbury can be called selfish on the court.

In 74 games played last year he took 952 shots.
In 1999-00 when playin for the Nets he also played 74 games and took 1317 shots.

1317-952=365 less shots

Shots per game
99-00: 17.8 field goals attempted per game
06-07: 12.9 field goals attempted per game

Almost 5 less shots but hes still selfish on the court?

His assist are down too but 2 of his teammates finally started to shoot better this month before he got injured.
 
true. Him and ben wallace are showin mad class and showin that they actually care.

And yeah, his dad died-i dont know how he could even think about basketball even now. And with the whole flying home and leaving the team thing was just stupid and should have never happened. Isiah is a dumbass-its the beginning of the year, why would he even think about benching a top point gaurd-coming off of a devastating loss to phoenix-and right before playing the nets in NJ??
 

datruth

Your Best Bet is B Ez
I don't think the team is better without Marbury, but I think the chemistry is better without Marbury.

What I am suggesting is that his teamates don't feel the same way about him as they do about each other. Last year there was actually some good chemisty between the players and between the players and Isiah. They liked each other. They respected each other. They played hard. The problem was the talent level, some of the young players needed more development, etc...

This year there has been a deterioration of the chemistry between the players and the players and the coach.

It started with the Marbury benching and his flight home and got worse as the team started losing. Since then we've had other issues with Zach's role, Curry's role, etc...

In any event, I think the players are trying to give Zach a chance to fit in and Zach is trying hard to fit in. I don't think the team feels similary about Marbury. They may not be a better team without him, but they are more of a family, more dedicated, more team oriented etc.... when he's out.

i totally agree about that marbury benching and his flight home thing, i believe that the team stopped playing for isiah for a while when the team requested that marbury shouldnt play that game after the phoenix game
 

MSGKnickz33

The Gold Mac
I think if we didn't get Zach, there would be fewer chemistry issues, but I think we would still suck. The reason I say that is that so many teams in the East improved sharply via trade (Orlando and Boston being the most obvious) or have young players that clearly developed. The Knicks would have come back with the same team. I think Isiah knew the Knicks had to upgrade at at least one positon. He just picked the wrong player. We needed a different kind of PF or a SF that could shoot from outside.

I thought the east was better too but apparently were only 6 games out of the playoffs, New Jersey has the #8 spot. But I agree if we got a defensive minded PF or a SF who can shoot we would be in good shape. I dont think we would go anywhere in the playoffs but I do think we would be the #7 or 8 team. Isiah didnt expect Q to come back the way he has and thats his only defense. Theres alot of factors involved besides Marbury:

  • Q-Rich sucks
  • Crawfords slow start
  • Nate not gettin minutes earlier in the season
  • Balkmans finally playin now
  • Acquisition of Z-Bo
  • Z-Bo effecting Currys overall play
  • Isiah blaming fans
  • Isiahs questionable starting lineups and rotations
  • Isiah Thomas

And then theres factors that have effected marbury:

  • losing his aunt
  • Being removed from starting lineup while Crawford wasnt
  • Fathers death
  • injury

Its hard to point the finger at anyone besides Isiah. No one has had a fair chance but it looks like things are finally turning around. Im still not convinced but Im not rooting against them, if they can somehow continue to win and make the playoffs Ill be happy. Id rather see them show pride and play hard then intentionally lose games to get a higher draft pick.
 

MSGKnickz33

The Gold Mac
i totally agree about that marbury benching and his flight home thing, i believe that the team stopped playing for isiah for a while when the team requested that marbury shouldnt play that game after the phoenix game

At least to me this is Isiahs fault because if you take a team vote and the results come up unaminous then you gotta do what the team wants you to do. They stopped playing for Isiah but I think the players that dont want to be traded want Marbury back, they know what he did last year and I believe hes still capable of doing that.
 
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