View Poll Results: When will you say/admit that the Knicks are a better team without Stephon Marbury?

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23. You may not vote on this poll
  • If the Knicks get to ten games over .500 in games played without him

    2 8.70%
  • ... 5 games over .500 in games played without him

    1 4.35%
  • ... get to .500 in games played without him

    3 13.04%
  • No matter how much they win or lose they're already better.

    9 39.13%
  • Just coincidence/bad luck that its happened for the 4th time in his career, should change his #to 13

    0 0%
  • Pfft you know nothing about basketball, he is and always will be Starbury so **** all you haters.

    8 34.78%
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Thread: At What Point Will You Say The Knicks Are Better Without Steph?

  1. #31
    The Gold Mac MSGKnickz33's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by knicklover
    I don't think the team is better without Marbury, but I think the chemistry is better without Marbury.

    What I am suggesting is that his teamates don't feel the same way about him as they do about each other. Last year there was actually some good chemisty between the players and between the players and Isiah. They liked each other. They respected each other. They played hard. The problem was the talent level, some of the young players needed more development, etc...

    This year there has been a deterioration of the chemistry between the players and the players and the coach.

    It started with the Marbury benching and his flight home and got worse as the team started losing. Since then we've had other issues with Zach's role, Curry's role, etc...

    In any event, I think the players are trying to give Zach a chance to fit in and Zach is trying hard to fit in. I don't think the team feels similary about Marbury. They may not be a better team without him, but they are more of a family, more dedicated, more team oriented etc.... when he's out.
    I partially agree but I think if we never got Zach Randolph none of this would have happened and we would be holdin down that #8 spot. I think Marbury really came around last year and re-became part of the team. In 03-04 he led an ok team to the playoffs that did get swept by New Jersey. After that Isiah made too many trades and most pg's would have had problems. But last year everyone on the team had chemistry and Marbury played great from Jan. to early April. You seen my stats already. The addition of Randolph destroyed last years chemistry.

    The question should be had Isiah never traded for Zach Randolph, how much better would the knicks be this year?

  2. #32
    The Gold Mac MSGKnickz33's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nyKnicks126
    You do realise that its crazy to make that amount of money... What is he doin buyin Starbury's? I mean a company invested in him he pays almost nothing and makes about 50% of the profits... So what is he doin with the money again?

    Buyin Barbosa a car was nice, but he was goin to make millions soon anyway why not give Escalades to the fans 75,000 dollars per car. Instead of givin it to Barbosa give each fan 20,000 dollars so they can be happy. Thats spendin money right.
    I dont think hes even keepin any of the money he makes off the Starburys, I heard hes donating all of it or almost all of it. Hes donated more money then anyone else, remember hurricane Katrina? He spent all kinds of time with fans over the summer and donated thousands and thousands of pairs of shoes. He does as much for the community as anyone else and it would be nice to see people appreciate it more. I cant believe this is even bein brought up, we aint suppose to be talkin about off the court stuff. Off the court hes still a star. On the court hes a B level player.

  3. #33
    OG GoKnIcKsDLEE42's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MSGKnickz33
    The question should be had Isiah never traded for Zach Randolph, how much better would the knicks be this year?
    Without zach, its basically the same team as last year. Based on the chemistry of last year, this team minus zach would be a top 8 team in the east. We had momentum with this team right up until David got hurt-thats when it started to slow-and when steph got hurt-thats when it stopped and thats the reason we didnt make the playoffs.

    About the money-i personally think steph is deff over payed. like nyknicks126 said-the top 2 pg's in the nba aren't making that much. He deserves a big contract-but not a monster one.

  4. #34
    The Gold Mac MSGKnickz33's Avatar
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    He is overpayed but Id rather see him gettin overpaid then alot of other players in the league. Hes doin the right thing with the money. How many other athletes can say that they sell their shoes for $15 so that kids without money can afford them? Hes got a big heart on and off the court. Hes also had alot of bad luck this year.

  5. #35
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    Originally Posted by MSGKnickz33
    I partially agree but I think if we never got Zach Randolph none of this would have happened and we would be holdin down that #8 spot. I think Marbury really came around last year and re-became part of the team. In 03-04 he led an ok team to the playoffs that did get swept by New Jersey. After that Isiah made too many trades and most pg's would have had problems. But last year everyone on the team had chemistry and Marbury played great from Jan. to early April. You seen my stats already. The addition of Randolph destroyed last years chemistry.

    The question should be had Isiah never traded for Zach Randolph, how much better would the knicks be this year?
    I think if we didn't get Zach, there would be fewer chemistry issues, but I think we would still suck. The reason I say that is that so many teams in the East improved sharply via trade (Orlando and Boston being the most obvious) or have young players that clearly developed. The Knicks would have come back with the same team. I think Isiah knew the Knicks had to upgrade at at least one positon. He just picked the wrong player. We needed a different kind of PF or a SF that could shoot from outside.

  6. #36
    The Gold Mac MSGKnickz33's Avatar
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    I dont know how Marbury can be called selfish on the court.

    In 74 games played last year he took 952 shots.
    In 1999-00 when playin for the Nets he also played 74 games and took 1317 shots.

    1317-952=365 less shots

    Shots per game
    99-00: 17.8 field goals attempted per game
    06-07: 12.9 field goals attempted per game

    Almost 5 less shots but hes still selfish on the court?

    His assist are down too but 2 of his teammates finally started to shoot better this month before he got injured.

  7. #37
    OG GoKnIcKsDLEE42's Avatar
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    true. Him and ben wallace are showin mad class and showin that they actually care.

    And yeah, his dad died-i dont know how he could even think about basketball even now. And with the whole flying home and leaving the team thing was just stupid and should have never happened. Isiah is a dumbass-its the beginning of the year, why would he even think about benching a top point gaurd-coming off of a devastating loss to phoenix-and right before playing the nets in NJ??

  8. #38
    Your Best Bet is B Ez datruth's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by knicklover
    I don't think the team is better without Marbury, but I think the chemistry is better without Marbury.

    What I am suggesting is that his teamates don't feel the same way about him as they do about each other. Last year there was actually some good chemisty between the players and between the players and Isiah. They liked each other. They respected each other. They played hard. The problem was the talent level, some of the young players needed more development, etc...

    This year there has been a deterioration of the chemistry between the players and the players and the coach.

    It started with the Marbury benching and his flight home and got worse as the team started losing. Since then we've had other issues with Zach's role, Curry's role, etc...

    In any event, I think the players are trying to give Zach a chance to fit in and Zach is trying hard to fit in. I don't think the team feels similary about Marbury. They may not be a better team without him, but they are more of a family, more dedicated, more team oriented etc.... when he's out.
    i totally agree about that marbury benching and his flight home thing, i believe that the team stopped playing for isiah for a while when the team requested that marbury shouldnt play that game after the phoenix game

  9. #39
    The Gold Mac MSGKnickz33's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by knicklover
    I think if we didn't get Zach, there would be fewer chemistry issues, but I think we would still suck. The reason I say that is that so many teams in the East improved sharply via trade (Orlando and Boston being the most obvious) or have young players that clearly developed. The Knicks would have come back with the same team. I think Isiah knew the Knicks had to upgrade at at least one positon. He just picked the wrong player. We needed a different kind of PF or a SF that could shoot from outside.
    I thought the east was better too but apparently were only 6 games out of the playoffs, New Jersey has the #8 spot. But I agree if we got a defensive minded PF or a SF who can shoot we would be in good shape. I dont think we would go anywhere in the playoffs but I do think we would be the #7 or 8 team. Isiah didnt expect Q to come back the way he has and thats his only defense. Theres alot of factors involved besides Marbury:

    • Q-Rich sucks
    • Crawfords slow start
    • Nate not gettin minutes earlier in the season
    • Balkmans finally playin now
    • Acquisition of Z-Bo
    • Z-Bo effecting Currys overall play
    • Isiah blaming fans
    • Isiahs questionable starting lineups and rotations
    • Isiah Thomas


    And then theres factors that have effected marbury:

    • losing his aunt
    • Being removed from starting lineup while Crawford wasnt
    • Fathers death
    • injury


    Its hard to point the finger at anyone besides Isiah. No one has had a fair chance but it looks like things are finally turning around. Im still not convinced but Im not rooting against them, if they can somehow continue to win and make the playoffs Ill be happy. Id rather see them show pride and play hard then intentionally lose games to get a higher draft pick.

  10. #40
    The Gold Mac MSGKnickz33's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by datruth
    i totally agree about that marbury benching and his flight home thing, i believe that the team stopped playing for isiah for a while when the team requested that marbury shouldnt play that game after the phoenix game
    At least to me this is Isiahs fault because if you take a team vote and the results come up unaminous then you gotta do what the team wants you to do. They stopped playing for Isiah but I think the players that dont want to be traded want Marbury back, they know what he did last year and I believe hes still capable of doing that.

  11. #41
    Your Best Bet is B Ez datruth's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MSGKnickz33
    At least to me this is Isiahs fault because if you take a team vote and the results come up unaminous then you gotta do what the team wants you to do. They stopped playing for Isiah but I think the players that dont want to be traded want Marbury back, they know what he did last year and I believe hes still capable of doing that.
    oh of course its isiah's fault but i dont think the knicks players want him back, they'll most likely say they would cuz thats just the right thing to say, one thing i noticed though, after crawford hit 3 in da closing minutes and then the nets called a Timout, i noticed crawford pointing to his heart and saying,"i got heart" multiple times

  12. #42
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    Originally Posted by GoKnIcKsDLEE42
    true. Him and ben wallace are showin mad class and showin that they actually care.

    And yeah, his dad died-i dont know how he could even think about basketball even now. And with the whole flying home and leaving the team thing was just stupid and should have never happened. Isiah is a dumbass-its the beginning of the year, why would he even think about benching a top point gaurd-coming off of a devastating loss to phoenix-and right before playing the nets in NJ??
    Yea Ben Wallace deserves alot of credit too. Its great what both of them are doing and I wish more athletes would do this instead of being greedy and charging over $100 for their shoes like Lebron. F*ck him for talkin trash about Marburys shoes.

    Good job of holdin it down while I was gone. He was stupid not only for benching Marbury but for benching Marbury instead of Crawford. At that point Crawford was playing far worse then any other starting shooting guard in the league.

    Marbury vs Crawford, November
    Marbury-14.2ppg, 5.3apg, 41.3fg%, 42.1 3P%, 33.6mpg
    Crawford-17.1ppg, 4.3apg, 41fg%, 30.1 3P%, 38.7mpg

    Marbury took 155 shots-->11.1fga
    Crawford took 222 shots-->14.8fga

    Field goal attempt included to once again show that Marbury is not selfish.

    Look at the difference in 3P%, Marbury was shooting 12% better. Why was Marbury benched and Crawford allowed to continue his starting job?

    Would this make the haters upset if they were on a high school basketball and their coach did this to them?

    Lets remember some key factors involved:

    • Marbury proved he can still score efficiently last season
    • Crawfords 3p shooting is 30.1%
    • Isiah wants to run offense through Z-Bo, Crawford, and Eddy
    • Marbury listened, taking 11.1 shots per game
    • Marbury wasnt playin best defense, but better then Crawford, Nate, Jones, Collins, any other guard on the team


    This doesnt add up to me, Isiah obviously has something against Marbury and is going out of his way to be an ******* to him.

  13. #43
    OG GoKnIcKsDLEE42's Avatar
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    yeah people really gotta get that imaginary picture outta their head that marbury is a selfish player. You proved it wit those stats. Why do the haters hate???

  14. #44
    The Gold Mac MSGKnickz33's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by datruth
    oh of course its isiah's fault but i dont think the knicks players want him back, they'll most likely say they would cuz thats just the right thing to say, one thing i noticed though, after crawford hit 3 in da closing minutes and then the nets called a Timout, i noticed crawford pointing to his heart and saying,"i got heart" multiple times
    I believe him. Hes been the only vocal leader on this team. I still dont like his defense and his turnovers but hes been passing the ball and shooting much better.

    My only knock on Marbury is that hes not a vocal leader. I think hes a leader on the court but not in the locker room. At the same time, who said the point guard has to be the leader? Theres alot of teams that have leaders at other positions besides pg:

    Celtics-KG
    Cavs-Lebron
    Spurs-Duncan
    Heat-Wade
    76ers-Iguodala
    Mavericks-Dirk
    Rockets-McGrady, Yao
    Pistons-Take your pick
    Magic-Dwight Howard
    Kings-Ron Artest
    Pacers-Jermaine Oneil

    I dont think the knicks losing can be blamed on Marburys presence and the KNicks winning can be blamed on Marburys absence.

  15. #45
    OG GoKnIcKsDLEE42's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MSGKnickz33
    I dont think the knicks losing can be blamed on Marburys presence and the KNicks winning can be blamed on Marburys absence.
    word. He's not really the deciding factor. Well actually thats really not a good way to put it, but thats the only thing thats really coming to mind. When they win, he helps. When they lose-most of the time he contributes somewhat but is restricted for one reason or another. He alone can't bring this team to glory-others have to play great with him. Nate and Jamal have to keep up this great shooting when (or if) steph comes back. Then-we will be a winning team.

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