View Poll Results: When will you say/admit that the Knicks are a better team without Stephon Marbury?

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23. You may not vote on this poll
  • If the Knicks get to ten games over .500 in games played without him

    2 8.70%
  • ... 5 games over .500 in games played without him

    1 4.35%
  • ... get to .500 in games played without him

    3 13.04%
  • No matter how much they win or lose they're already better.

    9 39.13%
  • Just coincidence/bad luck that its happened for the 4th time in his career, should change his #to 13

    0 0%
  • Pfft you know nothing about basketball, he is and always will be Starbury so **** all you haters.

    8 34.78%
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Thread: At What Point Will You Say The Knicks Are Better Without Steph?

  1. #106
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    Originally Posted by Eddy Currys House Special
    Dude if you think going 39-43, getting swept and humiliated by the Nets in the first round is a successful season then you and I really can't have a conversation about anything knick related. In fact yes, I would rather have a poor record with young players like we've had the past few seasons then a team of Stephon Marbury and a bunch of over the hill, veteran cast offs that isn't going anywhere.
    You've been exposed as an Isiahsexual. Thanks to me, MSG33, and many others who spoke against your Isiahsexuality and hate for anything that promotes a bad image for Isiah.



    Go to 4:44


    quoted from my man Spirit of Truth, "if I say I'm God then I guess you have to take the side of Satan, huh motha****a?, its not a competition its a COOPERATION!!!"

    Originally Posted by metrocard
    We averaged 92 points per game, but only gave up 93 points per game.

    Our line up was

    Marbury
    Houston
    Tiny Tim
    Thomas
    Mutumbo

    We had a deadly back court

    This season Marbury averaged 9.3 assist for the Knicks and about 20 points per game with 3 rebs and 1.3 steals.

    Houston shot 43% from 3pt and averaged almost 19 points per game on 2 two turnovers per game.

    Thomas and Mutumbo was a strong defensive front court and could lock down other players game by game.


    Because of all the injuries was most used line up was

    Marbury
    Anderson
    Tim Thomas
    Kurt Thomas
    Mohammed


    This season we made the PLAYOFFS but fell short to the Nets.




    From NBA.com...


    THE NEW YORK KNICKERBOCKERS marked their 58th season as a charter member of the NBA with a 39-43 (.476) regular season mark. . . Knicks earned their first NBA Playoff berth since 2001, as they finished in third in the Atlantic Division (eight games behind division champion New Jersey) and were seeded seventh in the Eastern Conference.

    CANCEL THAT VACATION. . .AGAIN: After a two-year absence from the post-season tournament, the Knicks advanced to the NBA Playoffs for the first time since 2001, and for the 15th time in the last 17 seasons. . . Knicks made the Playoffs for a club record 14 consecutive seasons, 1988-2001. . . Knicks mathematically clinched a Playoff berth on April 7 (game no. 79) with a 96-82 victory over Chicago at Madison Square Garden, and with Cleveland’s subsequent 92-74 loss at Memphis.

    THE RECORD (39-43): With a two-victory improvement over their 37-45 mark of 2002-03, Knicks joined the Indiana Pacers as the only two Eastern Conference teams who have increased their win totals over each of the last two seasons. Knicks have gone 30-37-39 in the win column in the last three seasons, Pacers have gone 42-48-61 (Detroit just misses joining the group, going 50-50-54 in last three years). . . Knicks were 29-25 following the Dec 22 appointment of Isiah Thomas as president, basketball operations. . . Knicks have recorded three consecutive sub-.500 campaigns for the first time since they finished below .500 for four straight seasons, 1984-85 through 1987-88.


    ON THE LEADER BOARD: Stephon Marbury was the only NBA player to rank among League’s Top 20 in scoring (15th with 20.2 ppg), assists (8.9 apg, second to Jason Kidd's 9.2), steals (15th with 1.59 spg) and assist-to-turnover ratio (tied for 11th with 2.89). Steph led the NBA in total assists (719). . . Dikembe Mutombo was 14th in the NBA in blocks per game (1.89). . . Kurt Thomas tied for 20th in rebounding (8.3 rpg), and tied for 27th in FG pct. (.473). . .Despite his injury-shortened season, Allan Houston ranked third in the League in FT pct. (.913, behind only Peja Stojakovic’s .927 and Steve Nash’s .916) and seventh in 3PT FG pct. (.431).

    WON-LOST STREAKS: Knicks’ longest winning streak was five games (Jan 30-Feb 8 over Boston, Phoenix, Indiana, Miami and Clippers), their longest winning streak since they won five straight from March 11-20, 2001. . . Longest losing streak was six games, twice (Dec 1-10 and Feb 20-29).

    BY THE MONTHS:
    Knicks were 0-1 in October, 7-9 in November, 7-9 in December, 8-8 in January, 4-8 in February, 9-5 in March and 4-3 in April. . . Knicks’ 9-5 March marked their winningest month since January 2003 (10-8). . .Winning months in March (9-5) and April (4-3) marked NY’s first back-to-back winning months since March-April 2001 (9-7, 6-4).

    EAST/WEST:
    Knicks were 31-23 against the Eastern Conference, recording their highest win total against the East since 2000-01 (32-22). . . Knicks went 17-7 against the Atlantic Division, their best mark vs. the Atlantic since 1996-97 (19-6). . . Knicks recorded season sweeps over Atlanta (3-0) and Washington (4-0), and also won season series against Boston (3-1), Miami (3-1), Orlando (3-1), Philadelphia (3-1), New Orleans (2-1) and Toronto (3-1). . . They defeated every Eastern Conference team at least once, except Cleveland (0-4). . . However, Knicks were just 8-20 against the Western Conference (2-12 on the road).


    NEW FACES OF ’04: Almost immediately upon appointment, Thomas embarked on a series of player moves that decisively changed the face of the Knicks. . .Moochie Norris and John Amaechi (waived on Jan 5) were acquired on Dec 30 from Houston for Clarence Weatherspoon. . . Then in a stunning Jan 5 megadeal, two-time All-Star Stephon Marbury, four-time All-Star Anfernee Hardaway and Cezary Trybanski were acquired from Phoenix for senior Knick Charlie Ward, Howard Eisley, Antonio McDyess, Maciej Lampe, the draft rights to Milos Vujanic and two future draft picks. . . DerMarr Johnson was signed as a free agent on Feb 3. . .At the All-Star break (Feb 15), Tim Thomas and Nazr Mohammed were acquired in a three-team deal that sent Keith Van Horn to Milwaukee and Michael Doleac and Joel Przybilla to Atlanta. . .Four-time All-Star Vin Baker was signed as a free agent on March 12. . .At the close of the season, only seven players remained on the Knicks’ 15-man roster from Opening Night: Shandon Anderson, Othella Harrington, Allan Houston, Dikembe Mutombo, Michael Sweetney, Kurt Thomas and Frank Williams.

    DEE-FENSE: Improvement on the defensive end was a key to Knicks’ return to post-season play. . .Knicks finished 13th in the NBA in ppg allowed (93.5), and eighth in opposition FG pct. (.429). . . By comparison, in 2002-03, they ranked 20th in opposition ppg (97.2) and 26th in opposing FG pct. (.457). . . Knicks recorded their lowest opposition ppg and lowest opposition FG pct. since 2000-01 (86.1 ppg, .417 opposing FG pct.). . . This season, the Knicks recorded their 18th, 19th and 20th sub-70 opposition games of the shot clock era (68 points by Orlando on Nov 3; 64 points by Miami on Feb 7; 65 points by New Jersey on March 19).

    DEE-FENSE, PART II: Knicks pulled down 3,493 total rebounds (42.6 rpg, 14th in NBA), their highest rebound total since 1993-94 (3,717). . .Thanks in great measure to Dikembe Mutombo (123) and Kurt Thomas (80), the Knicks recorded 391 total blocks (4.77 bpg), their highest total since 1990-91 (418 total, 5.10 bpg). . . Knicks held the opposition under .400 shooting 26 times in 2003-04, going 20-6 in those games. In 2002-03, the defense recorded just 14 sub-.400 shooting games (9-5).

    THAT WAS THE WEEK THAT WAS. . .TWICE: Dikembe Mutombo (period ending Nov 30) and Stephon Marbury (period ending Jan 18) were both honored as the NBA’s Eastern Conference Player of the Week. . . It was Deke’s eighth career POTW honor, Stephon’s sixth. . . Knicks had two POTW honorees in the same season for the first time since 1991-92, when Patrick Ewing (period ending Jan 5) and Mark Jackson (period ending March 29) were honored.

    20-20 VISION: Eleven different Knicks recorded 20+ point games in 2003-04: Stephon Marbury (25), Allan Houston (20), Keith Van Horn (18), Tim Thomas (6), Shandon Anderson (4), Kurt Thomas (3), Nazr Mohammed (2), Howard Eisley (1), Anfernee Hardaway (1), Moochie Norris (1) and DerMarr Johnson (1). . .Knicks had their highest number of single-game 20+ scorers since 1965-66, when they also produced 11 members of the 20+ club: Jim “Bad News” Barnes, Dick Barnett, Walt Bellamy, Emmette Bryant, Barry Clemens, Tom Gola, Jumpin’ Johnny Green, Howard Komives, Willis Reed, Dave Stallworth and Dick Van Arsdale.


    INJURIES: Knicks recorded 234 manpower games lost due to injury, the 15th-highest figure in the NBA and the third time in the last four years Knicks have recorded 200+ games missed. . . Among those who missed double-figure games due to injury were Allan Houston (30), Michael Sweetney (22), Antonio McDyess (17), Dikembe Mutombo (15) and Frank Williams (13). . . In all, 17 different players missed at least one game due to injury/illness.

    LINEUPS: Through a season marked with player moves and injuries to key starters, the Knicks used a staggering 23 different starting lineups in 2003-04 (as opposed to just six starting lineups in both 2001-02 and 2002-03). . . Knicks recorded their highest number of starting lineups since 1986-87, when Hubie Brown and Bob Hill employed 25 different lineups. . . Most-used lineup was the season-ending lineup of Marbury/Anderson/Mohammed/Kurt Thomas/Tim Thomas (12 games, 6-6).


    FROM THE LINE: After recording a club record .815 FT pct. in 2002-03 (2nd in NBA), Knicks finished third in the League with a .793 FT pct. (1,374-1,732 FTA), trailing only Dallas (.796) and Sacramento (.795). . .Allan Houston finished third in the NBA with a .913 mark from the line (second-best in Knicks history to Allan’s .919 in 2002-03), while three-fifths of the season-ending starting lineup -- Stephon Marbury (.833 w/NY), Kurt Thomas (.835) and Tim Thomas (.813 w/NY) – all shot .800+ from the stripe.


    THREEEEEE-POINT GOAL: Knicks finished fourth in the NBA in three-point FG pct. (.364 on 406-1,115 from Downtown). . .
    Knicks trailed only Sacramento (.401), Seattle (.373) and Houston (.366) in three-point FG pct. in 2003-04. . .Knicks recorded six games with at least 10 3PT FGM this season. . . Knicks nailed a season-high 15 (of 26) home runs in 114-86 win at Orlando on Dec 29, falling one shy of club record 16 (Jan 10, 2003 at Philadelphia).

    ON THE OFFENSIVE: Knicks finished 16th in the NBA in ppg (92.0) and 12th in FG pct. (.442). . . They were 16-1 when scoring 100+ points (lone loss came on Jan 12, when they lost to Dallas in OT, 127-121).


    March 14, 2004: Tim Thomas' 20 points and 8 rebounds helped the Knicks overcome a 26 point deficit and record their biggest comeback win since the 1991-92 season.

    COMEBACKS: [/B]Knicks won 11 games this season in which they trailed by double figures (most since 14 in 1999-2000). . . Heading the list of comebacks was an amazing 103-100 ABC win at Milwaukee on March 14, in which the Knicks trailed by as many as 26 points and recorded their biggest comeback win since the stat was first charted in 1991-92. Michael Redd’s layup gave the Bucks a 26-point lead (65-39) with 10:43 left in the third quarter, but Knicks outscored Milwaukee 64-35 over the game’s last 22:29. . . Knicks eclipsed their prior biggest post-1991-92 comeback: from 22 points down in win vs. Chicago on March 2, 1995. Knicks also rebounded from a 22-point halftime deficit (61-39), one point shy of their biggest halftime comeback (from 23 points down at halftime to beat Philadelphia on April 6, 1987). . . On the flip side, Knicks lost nine games this season in which they led by double figures (fewest since six in 2000-01). Biggest blown lead in loss was 19 points in 88-81 loss at Portland, Dec 5.

    MARGINS: Knicks were 6-6 in games decided by three points or less, 4-6 in games decided by 20 points or more. . . Biggest winning margin was 29 points (Dec 30 vs. Miami, 102-73), the last of three consecutive 20+ point wins (also 100-80 at Miami on Dec 27; 114-86 at Orlando, Dec 29). Knicks recorded three consecutive 20+ point wins for the first time since Nov 20-21-23, 1997 (over Atlanta, Washington and Vancouver). . . Biggest losing margin was 32 points (Jan 8 vs. Houston, 111-79).

    BACK TO BACKS: Knicks played 20 sets of back-to-back games. . .In back-to-backs, Knicks swept six sets, lost five, and split nine. . . Knicks’ first back-to-back sweep this season came on Dec 13-14 (95-88 vs. Denver, 89-87 vs. Washington), and marked their first back-to-back sweep since Jan 23-24, 2002 (96-92 at Toronto, 96-91 vs. Phoenix). Since then, Knicks played 33 sets of back-to-back games without a sweep, until finally ending the dry spell. . . Knicks also swept a four-games-in-five-days set from Dec 26-30, beating Miami (twice), Memphis and Orlando. It was their first sweep of a four-in-five since Jan 29-Feb 2, 1994 (over Seattle, Portland, Boston and Washington).

    WIRE TO WIRE: Knicks recorded four wire-to-wire wins in 2003-04 (games in which they never trailed). . . Included were back-to-back wins on Dec 26 at Memphis (98-94) and Dec 27 at Miami (100-80), their first consecutive wire-to-wire triumphs since Feb 19 and 21, 1999 (over Philadelphia and Chicago). . . Conversely, Knicks had 10 wire-to-wire losses (never led).



    And after that we just went down hill.

    A smart GM would of let these contracts expiring, save the draft picks and just build from there. Instead Isiah took the path that has us in the mess we're in now.

    All I can say is

    Anderson >>> Crawford
    Thomas >>> Randolph
    Mutumbo >>> Curry

    Unselfish defensive veterans > selfish no defense one dementional overrated "young talent"

    Basically, that team had a superstar PG and expiring contracts with crafty veterans and draft picks. You have to be a complete Isiahsexual to like what we have now over what we had. We have no future with this team, young is just an adjective. Give me cap space, better winning, lottery draft picks, and smart veterans over dumb, overpaid to long term deals, almost untradable, underachieving, poor work ethic, out of shape, "young", one dimensional with zero ability on defense losers.

    Originally Posted by knicklover
    NY is the largest market. He's from NY. Plus, he's supposedly the "star" of the team. So it does not surprise me that his jersey sells a lot. In addition, saying that some of his current and former teammates, fans, press etc.. don't like him is not the same as saying that he doesn't ALSO have some diehard fans. He obviously has some diehard fans. For every poster here that hates him, there are guys like Metro, MSG etc.. that support him strongly. Plus he has given a lot to charity and I'm sure that has also made many fans.

    However, none of that has anything to do with my point.

    My point is that if some of your current teammates don't like you, there is no way the team is going to do well when you are a key component of that team. Stats and arguments about 2003/2004, the Nets, Suns etc... are idiotic because they miss the point.

    In addition, if some of his current teammates don't like him, some of his former teammates didn't like him, many of the fans don't like him, and some of the press doesn't like him, JUST MAYBE it could be HIS FAULT.
    His current teammates are garbage, do you really want a future of Crawford, Randolph, Richardson and Curry? These are some of the worst starters at their position. Our starting line up stinks.

    knickslover, give up your mission of trying to take away as much credit as possible from Marbury. Every fact someone drops on you, all you do is the same thing over and over...Lee says something nice about Steph, you say he didn't mean it. Marbury leads the NBA in assist one season, you say it doesn't count, Marbury leads this team to the playoffs, you say it didn't matter.

    Just give up already, your "point" is beaten up and old and will never prove any fact that has been stated about Marbury wrong.

  2. #107
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    Originally Posted by jimkcchief88
    Steph is the only name player on arguably the largest market in the country so its no surprise his jersey sells. He is cool with all the "tats" and hip-hop image and rebellious attitude so that sells. But the fact that 25 and unders buy his jersey does not make him a good teamate and that's what we are talking about here.
    Thank God someone around here has a functioning brain when it comes to this topic.

  3. #108
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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    You've been exposed as an Isiahsexual. Thanks to me, MSG33, and many others who spoke against your Isiahsexuality and hate for anything that promotes a bad image for Isiah.



    Go to 4:44


    quoted from my man Spirit of Truth, "if I say I'm God then I guess you have to take the side of Satan, huh motha****a?, its not a competition its a COOPERATION!!!"




    Basically, that team had a superstar PG and expiring contracts with crafty veterans and draft picks. You have to be a complete Isiahsexual to like what we have now over what we had. We have no future with this team, young is just an adjective. Give me cap space, better winning, lottery draft picks, and smart veterans over dumb, overpaid to long term deals, almost untradable, underachieving, poor work ethic, out of shape, "young", one dimensional with zero ability on defense losers.



    His current teammates are garbage, do you really want a future of Crawford, Randolph, Richardson and Curry? These are some of the worst starters at their position. Our starting line up stinks.

    knickslover, give up your mission of trying to take away as much credit as possible from Marbury. Every fact someone drops on you, all you do is the same thing over and over...Lee says something nice about Steph, you say he didn't mean it. Marbury leads the NBA in assist one season, you say it doesn't count, Marbury leads this team to the playoffs, you say it didn't matter.

    Just give up already, your "point" is beaten up and old and will never prove any fact that has been stated about Marbury wrong.
    If you can't understand my simple point that the very fact that this thread exists proves he's disruptive, then you are so blinded by your loyalty we can't have a discussion.

  4. #109
    Your Best Bet is B Ez datruth's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    oh word my brother?





    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


    Check out that thread, Trinn Starr holding it down as a one man wrecking team...posted the facts, articles, and drop the knowledge, basically deboing heads.
    i've said it numerous times, i was once a stephon marbury supporter, u must have not read when i stated dat

  5. #110
    The Gold Mac MSGKnickz33's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by knicklover
    The only idiots here are the people that think that what a person says to the press is what he really thinks.

    There are republicans that tell the press every day that they think the war in Iraq was a good idea and that they support the president. They do that because they are part of a team (politics) not because that's what they really think or feel.

    If Lee told the press exactly what the players really think he would be doing exactly the wrong thing. He would have created a more hostile environment and controversy. It's a basic mature response to say "I support my teammates etc.." even when you think he's disruptive etc...

    It must be terrible to be so biased that you can't take even the slightest bit of criticism, have to ignore the press reports that disagree with your points of view, and don't notice all the haters here.

    It's so simple. The very fact that you are constantly here defending him from many people is proving beyond any showdow of a doubt that he's a controversial and disruptive force.
    What you said is true and I took that into consideration before I posted my response. I thought about that interview and came to the conclusion that why would he suck Marburys dick like that? He wouldnt do that for no reason, especially if he hated him like you and everyone says. So yes, I believe David Lee. Theres only one part of what he said thats up for debate, and thats the way he included the entire team. Maybe theres 1 or 2 players that dont like Marbury but I believe that most the team does.

    The very fact that you are constinently criticizing Marbury is proof beyond any shadow of a doubt that you are an Isiahsexual. You should be torchered for defending Isiah, thats like stealing from your mother or father.

  6. #111

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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    You've been exposed as an Isiahsexual. Thanks to me, MSG33, and many others who spoke against your Isiahsexuality and hate for anything that promotes a bad image for Isiah.



    Go to 4:44


    quoted from my man Spirit of Truth, "if I say I'm God then I guess you have to take the side of Satan, huh motha****a?, its not a competition its a COOPERATION!!!"




    Basically, that team had a superstar PG and expiring contracts with crafty veterans and draft picks. You have to be a complete Isiahsexual to like what we have now over what we had. We have no future with this team, young is just an adjective. Give me cap space, better winning, lottery draft picks, and smart veterans over dumb, overpaid to long term deals, almost untradable, underachieving, poor work ethic, out of shape, "young", one dimensional with zero ability on defense losers.



    His current teammates are garbage, do you really want a future of Crawford, Randolph, Richardson and Curry? These are some of the worst starters at their position. Our starting line up stinks.

    knickslover, give up your mission of trying to take away as much credit as possible from Marbury. Every fact someone drops on you, all you do is the same thing over and over...Lee says something nice about Steph, you say he didn't mean it. Marbury leads the NBA in assist one season, you say it doesn't count, Marbury leads this team to the playoffs, you say it didn't matter.

    Just give up already, your "point" is beaten up and old and will never prove any fact that has been stated about Marbury wrong.
    You can't be real man. Nobody could be this stupid, you must just get your kicks behaving this way. The 2003-2004 Knicks team sucked if you don't believe that then I can't help you.

  7. #112
    The Gold Mac MSGKnickz33's Avatar
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    This is the same shmuck that didnt watch the Knicks last year.

  8. #113
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    Originally Posted by MSGKnickz33
    The very fact that you are constinently criticizing Marbury is proof beyond any shadow of a doubt that you are an Isiahsexual. You should be torchered for defending Isiah, thats like stealing from your mother or father.
    ROTLMAO. No one wants Isiah out of here any more than I do.

    What I want is a team of players like Lee, Crawford, and Balkman but with a wider range of and greater degree of skills.

    Lee, Crawford, and Balkman work hard, are very professional, accept their roles without making any noise even if things aren't exactly the way they want them to be etc.... They are "team first" players and first rate representatives off the court too. Unfortunately they aren't all stars.

  9. #114
    Your Best Bet is B Ez datruth's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by knicklover
    ROTLMAO. No one wants Isiah out of here any more than I do.

    What I want is a team of players like Lee, Crawford, and Balkman but with a wider range of and greater degree of skills.

    Lee, Crawford, and Balkman work hard, are very professional, accept their roles without making any noise even if things aren't exactly the way they want them to be etc.... They are "team first" players and first rate representatives off the court too. Unfortunately they aren't all stars.
    dats all i ask for

  10. #115
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    Geez. This argument is still going on? I want no part in this...

    Can't we all just agree that this is a stalemate and stop talking about Marbury?

    The Knicks already kicked him to the curb (Francis and Penny Hardaway style), so none of us will probably ever see him with a Knick jersey again.

    He doesn't want to be here anyway. When he was asked if he could play through the injury, or whatever is wrong with him, he smirked and said "No Comment!".

    Phantom injury or not, he's already moved on from the Knicks in his head , and I think its time for us to do the same....

  11. #116
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    this aint no stalemate, it was a victory for team Starbury a long time ago. Im finished with this arguement and all other starbury arguements. Team Starbury came with better stats, facts, analysis, and details. This thread should be locked up because its over. When you see a video like the one posted below that means its over. I refuse to call this a stalemate, this arguement was over by the time we got to page 5.

    Im waitin for sumone to start another thread talkin trash about Marbury. Team Starbury will once again as we seen 4 or 5 times now finish off the haters with a kimbo slice. Haters dont waste your time posting here. If you wanna get my attention start another thread with what you call a controversial arguement so yall can get shut down and kimbo sliced or Deboed again.


  12. #117
    Your Best Bet is B Ez datruth's Avatar
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    lmaoo, team starbury, lmaooo

  13. #118
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    i like it!!
    God damn Jets, can they just stop playing so that we can have a New England and Green Bay final. Stupid jerks.

  14. #119
    Cutest Guy Here Kennedy Curse's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Pricey
    i like it!!
    God damn Jets, can they just stop playing so that we can have a New England and Green Bay final. Stupid jerks.
    dont u mean GIANTS -_-

  15. #120
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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Check out that thread, Trinn Starr holding it down as a one man wrecking team...posted the facts, articles, and drop the knowledge, basically deboing heads.
    lol For the record - this was b4 I was a mod.
    Now I play nice lol

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