Shaq to the Suns?

i got start off by saying i think that wide-load curry sux's big time

b u t ...

almost as big as shaq, 10 years younger, probably at this stage as good on "O" as shaq, probably a tad worse on "D" (maybe not), a contract that while it run s longer is 1/2 of shaq's, both waddle down the court at a similar pace...

why not trade for wide-load???

i do not get this trade.... i am confused...

New New York said:

I agree with you mostly in that Lakers and Celtics are front runners, but the Celtics still have to get past Detroit. And out West it's all about who you match up against. Case in point, Dallas maybe makes the Finals if they don't run into Golden State last year. Denver and Golden State could be some number one or two seed first round match up. This is going to be a very fun playoffs to watch

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Detroit doesn't scare anyone, they couldn't even beat Cleveland in a series.

Dallas is only a regular season team, they have no stability and their starters have been injury prone.

New Orleans are better than Golden State, Denver, Dallas and Detroit. Don't underestimate the best guard in the NBA, Chris Paul.

Back to this trade, here is my input.

It seems like an Isiah-like move what Kerr did, but we need to look deeper.

If Shaq does get back in Shaq and gets back to his serious work ethic, its a good deal for Phoneix. Phoneix doesn't play much defense, so it shouldn't a problem for O'Neil. Phoneix obviously went from a small team to a giant team

Nash at 6"3
Bell at 6"5
Hill at 6"8
Amare at 6"10
Shaq at 7"1

Shaq's court awareness and passing skills aren't diminished. Nash, Hill, and Shaq are really some of the best passers at their positions, them playing together makes Phoneix's half court offense the best in the NBA, behind the Lakers. If Phoneix wants to speed up the tempo, you'll sub in Diaw and Barbosa, not a problem.

People are bitching about this trade because Shaq isn't the 28 ppg 12 rebound guy anymore, but he still can be very serviceable with his skills, veteran leadership and the respect he gets on the court with his size and power.

If Shaq develops a 3pt shot out of no where, Phoneix will average 130 ppg, literally.

For Miami, its not a bad deal. All they need now is Beasley at PF and sign a defensive minded center and try to grab a PG, and they'll have a pretty legit team.


Drafted PG
Wade
Marion
Beasley
Center

Not bad.

Understandable deal for both team.

metrocard said:

Detroit doesn't scare anyone, they couldn't even beat Cleveland in a series.

Dallas is only a regular season team, they have no stability and their starters have been injury prone.

New Orleans are better than Golden State, Denver, Dallas and Detroit. Don't underestimate the best guard in the NBA, Chris Paul.

Back to this trade, here is my input.

It seems like an Isiah-like move what Kerr did, but we need to look deeper.

If Shaq does get back in Shaq and gets back to his serious work ethic, its a good deal for Phoneix. Phoneix doesn't play much defense, so it shouldn't a problem for O'Neil. Phoneix obviously went from a small team to a giant team

Nash at 6"3
Bell at 6"5
Hill at 6"8
Amare at 6"10
Shaq at 7"1

Shaq's court awareness and passing skills aren't diminished. Nash, Hill, and Shaq are really some of the best passers at their positions, them playing together makes Phoneix's half court offense the best in the NBA, behind the Lakers. If Phoneix wants to speed up the tempo, you'll sub in Diaw and Barbosa, not a problem.

People are bitching about this trade because Shaq isn't the 28 ppg 12 rebound guy anymore, but he still can be very serviceable with his skills, veteran leadership and the respect he gets on the court with his size and power.

If Shaq develops a 3pt shot out of no where, Phoneix will average 130 ppg, literally.

For Miami, its not a bad deal. All they need now is Beasley at PF and sign a defensive minded center and try to grab a PG, and they'll have a pretty legit team.


Drafted PG
Wade
Marion
Beasley
Center

Not bad.

Understandable deal for both team.

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You made some strong points. Shaq can pass and he has had some good games this year. The problem I see with the deal is the fast tempo of the Suns. I cant see Shaq gettin up and down the court quick enough but like you said they dont play defense. I think it was a good deal for the Heat but a risk for the Suns. It could end up workin out for them.

You also mentioned Hill, Nash, and Shaq being good passers which will make them dangerous in the halfcourt game. They usually dont play much half court (especially during the season) but they will now and I think they will be good at it. Pheonix has alot of versatilty. They need to do what works against their opponents and Shaqs minutes should be based on that.

If their playing a team where the halfcourt game favors them then Shaq should get more minutes. If they play a team where the fast pace favors them then thats what they need to do. In the playoffs the Suns seem to play more halfcourt which will be good for Shaq.

Shawn Marion has been a big part of this team. Some analysts have argued that hes been the most consistent player on the Suns over the last couple of years. The matrix so far this season is averaging about 16pts(52.6fg%), 10rbs, and 1.5blks. Boris Diaw will benefit the most from this trade. He will get minutes as a pf and a sf.

I still think Miami wins the deal but I shouldnt be so quick to doubt the Suns. If Shaq can get himself into better shape and the Suns slow it down it can work. Only time will tell how this trade works for the Suns. If no one makes a poll question about this trade, there will be one on my next game thread.

I have mixed feelings about this trade, it is a high risk, high reward trade. If it works as good as it could, then size them up for those rings. If it works then they have as good a starting 5 as the Celtics and Lakers, with a better bench. But we'll have to wait and see how is pans out, but to cosighn what someone said before, they just became a bit more interesting to watch!

Shaq wont stay fit and Suns lose Marion. After seeing the suns game against the Hornets, they were missing sme defensive pressure. Stoudamire got 20 odd rebs but dont let that fool you. Zach gets 16 rebs and we all know he doesnt play defence.
Miami r def the big winners in this deal.

I think this isnt as bad as everyone sees it.

Shaq is old but he once was one of the greatest players to play this game. He is a great defender and still has great timing.

The suns have many players who can score 20 + points a game (nash, stouds, hill, barbosa,) they need someone who can get blocks and stop the damage from big pfs in the playoffs which has cost them.

In terms of player calibre they have lost.

But Phoenix have done well and have put them selves in a position to take it all.

theknicks3 said:

I think this isnt as bad as everyone sees it.

Shaq is old but he once was one of the greatest players to play this game. He is a great defender and still has great timing.

The suns have many players who can score 20 + points a game (nash, stouds, hill, barbosa,) they need someone who can get blocks and stop the damage from big pfs in the playoffs which has cost them.

In terms of player calibre they have lost.

But Phoenix have done well and have put them selves in a position to take it all.

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he was a great defender and had great timing but his body is failing him and he is giving away simple fouls and it results in him being on the bench.
Just because you are one of the greatest players shouldnt mean that you are good enough for any trade, Marion right now is a better player.
The thing is they are saying it releases Stoudamire off the centres but the thing is he is going to get arse raped by the PFs like Gasol, Boozer and Dirk cause he isnt a good defender.
How slow is the suns offense going to be now with Shaq lumbering up and down the court? He isnt the same player.
I have no issue with Phoenix for trading Marion cause it was coming a long time but during this time they could have easily got a different player for him who will be younger, fitter and more suited to the suns style.

Also Shaqs contract is MASSIVE, what were they thinking.

Worst. Trade. Ever. lol. Well, maybe the Curry trade was worse. Are the Suns going to completely change their style of play now? The style they've been playing for 4 years and the style that Dantoni is convinced will win a championship.

The reason the Suns got rid of Kurt Thomas was so they could stay under the salary cap, but now they've taken on more salary for a player that doesn't fit into their system as well as Kurt Thomas.

Are they going to run pick and rolls with Shaq or are they going to now completely change and become a post-up/inside-outside team? What about the run-and-gun offense? How will that work with an injured and old 330 pound man?

This is like an Isiah trade. Just get whatever you can, regardless of the system played and matching of talents.

The trade seems bad on paper on so many levels for Phoenix but they were other factors at play here.

Marrion wanted out of Phoenix all along, and eveyone knew he wouldn't have re-signed with the Suns. Maybe they could have shopped him around more, but Marrion was a goner before the season even began. So ofcourse they delt him

Starks said:

Marrion wanted out of Phoenix all along, and eveyone knew he wouldn't have re-signed with the Suns. Maybe they could have shopped him around more, but Marrion was a goner before the season even began. So ofcourse they delt him

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the above makes no sense.. if he was not going to re-sign with the suns, they would have lost him, but would have saved 18m next year. trading him means they now have shaq for next year at 20m + an add. year at 20m.

i would have thought they would have been better off to let him walk...

LJ4ptplay said:

Worst. Trade. Ever. lol. Well, maybe the Curry trade was worse. Are the Suns going to completely change their style of play now? The style they've been playing for 4 years and the style that Dantoni is convinced will win a championship.

The reason the Suns got rid of Kurt Thomas was so they could stay under the salary cap, but now they've taken on more salary for a player that doesn't fit into their system as well as Kurt Thomas.

Are they going to run pick and rolls with Shaq or are they going to now completely change and become a post-up/inside-outside team? What about the run-and-gun offense? How will that work with an injured and old 330 pound man?

This is like an Isiah trade. Just get whatever you can, regardless of the system played and matching of talents.

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It could end up bein like an Isiah trade, we'll have to see how pheonix does and how shaq fits in. If they dont make it to game 7 in the 2nd round then it was a bad trade.

MSGKnickz33 said:

It could end up bein like an Isiah trade, we'll have to see how pheonix does and how shaq fits in. If they dont make it to game 7 in the 2nd round then it was a bad trade.

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Yeah, game 7 in the 2nd round is probably a good indicator of trade value. I would even argue that anything less than a conference finals appearance is a failure.

We should start a poll on how far the new Suns will go. Hell, talking about how shitty the Knicks are is getting old.

Since I think the Shaq trade will make the Suns worse, then I vote for losing in game 5 of the 2nd round. I could even see a 1st round exit, depending on who they play.

LJ4ptplay said:

Worst. Trade. Ever. lol. Well, maybe the Curry trade was worse. Are the Suns going to completely change their style of play now? The style they've been playing for 4 years and the style that Dantoni is convinced will win a championship.

The reason the Suns got rid of Kurt Thomas was so they could stay under the salary cap, but now they've taken on more salary for a player that doesn't fit into their system as well as Kurt Thomas.

Are they going to run pick and rolls with Shaq or are they going to now completely change and become a post-up/inside-outside team? What about the run-and-gun offense? How will that work with an injured and old 330 pound man?

This is like an Isiah trade. Just get whatever you can, regardless of the system played and matching of talents.

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while i do agree this is a bad trade i wouldnt call it the worst lol and i agree that the suns were stupid to trade away kurt(just like isiah waz) he is a great post defender, which shaq is no longer. shaq is not mobile enough to guard the bigs of the west and be effective. and the classic pick and roll (which steve nash loves doin) will be completely ineffective cuz shaq cant shoot. the suns could have traded 4 kirenlinko, or vince carter, and yet they choose shaq?

did u know this trade was offered a week ago but the suns said no to it and then Gasol goes to the Lakers and all of a sudden they accept it???

PANIC TRADE!!!

Phoenix management must feel they only have 1 or 2 years left to win the championship (then guys like Nash will start sliding down hill) and they don't have the pieces they need to win the west now.

If so, this is one of those very rare occasions that it might make sense to take on an aging player with a huge contract in a desperate attempt to win the championship.

They must think that the combination of Shaq at C and Stoudemire at PF is superior to Stoudemire at C and Marion at PF for the next 2 years. After that, you'd obviously want Marion because he'll still be good and Shaq will be retired.

The real issue is how much Shaq has left. He's been poor this year relative to the Shaq we are used to, but he has been hurt and may get re-energized by being on a good team. They don't need him to score much. What they need from him is to rebound, start the fast break, and then take a nap until the teams head back down to the other end. The also need for him to play solid defense. In half court games (like in the playoffs), he will fit much better. They will just have to work out something in the post between him and Stoudemire.

The other thing he brings to the team are the intangibles. He's a winner, can rise to the occasion, handles pressure etc...

Of course, there were negative intangibles with Marion. Marion felt disrespected for awhile and supposedly there was also some tension with Stoudemire because they both wanted more shots. It's hard to win in that kind of environment.

The deal is a slam dunk for Miami. They are going to get a great pick this year. Wade + Marion + Top Pick = instant younger playoff contender next year.

For Phoenix it all depends on what Shaq has left. If they win the championhsip it was a great deal. If not, it really doesn't matter all that much that they aren't as good a team because I don't think they were going to win it all anyway.

Also Banks can play so another plus there to Miami.

Did u see Stoudamire's defence in both overtimes..... non existent.

Missed Marion badly. Shaq wont be able to defend as well as Stoudamire either. When it comes to crunchtime they wont get it done.

They are now the no-defence suns.

Wasn't banks sent to the D-league not too long ago? Maybe I am mistaken. I don't know if Marion is excited about going to the heat. I am not sure what Marion wants more... to get a ring... or money.

If Marion wants a ring I would figure he wouldn't be happy going to the heat, and if he wants money I do not think the Heat would sign him to a big contract.

So does Marion have drive to play?

the more people i hear on epsn say that this trade makes sense, the more i laugh. This will never work out. There is no way shaq could play in that offense. I mean i hope it does. I love shaq and and the suns are one of my fav teams, but its not guna work out. And about marion-the heat won big time. Marion is an all star. shaq is overweight. marion is 29 and in his prime. Shaq is 35 and just out of his prime. Good luck Suns.

Pricey said:

Also Banks can play so another plus there to Miami.

Did u see Stoudamire's defence in both overtimes..... non existent.

Missed Marion badly. Shaq wont be able to defend as well as Stoudamire either. When it comes to crunchtime they wont get it done.

They are now the no-defence suns.

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Every excellent point, I agree 100%

at the end of the day, suns could have gotten way more for Marion.
Suns game style will now change.
Shaq has fouled out 6 times this season due to being slow and missed 15 games or so due to injury. Makes no sense at all.
Everyone knows Marion wasnt happy at Phoenix and the players didnt get along that well with him but surely they r not dumb enough to recognise that this is a bad deal for them.

Anyways hopefully it works out for both teams but Miami r def looking good.
Next season they have Wade, Marion, Davis, and are currently the worst record in the league so odds r they could get 1 or 2 pick at the lottery. Imagine adding Beasley or Rose to that!!!