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Thread: Shaq to the Suns?

  1. #31
    The Gold Mac MSGKnickz33's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Worst. Trade. Ever. lol. Well, maybe the Curry trade was worse. Are the Suns going to completely change their style of play now? The style they've been playing for 4 years and the style that Dantoni is convinced will win a championship.

    The reason the Suns got rid of Kurt Thomas was so they could stay under the salary cap, but now they've taken on more salary for a player that doesn't fit into their system as well as Kurt Thomas.

    Are they going to run pick and rolls with Shaq or are they going to now completely change and become a post-up/inside-outside team? What about the run-and-gun offense? How will that work with an injured and old 330 pound man?

    This is like an Isiah trade. Just get whatever you can, regardless of the system played and matching of talents.
    It could end up bein like an Isiah trade, we'll have to see how pheonix does and how shaq fits in. If they dont make it to game 7 in the 2nd round then it was a bad trade.

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    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MSGKnickz33
    It could end up bein like an Isiah trade, we'll have to see how pheonix does and how shaq fits in. If they dont make it to game 7 in the 2nd round then it was a bad trade.
    Yeah, game 7 in the 2nd round is probably a good indicator of trade value. I would even argue that anything less than a conference finals appearance is a failure.

    We should start a poll on how far the new Suns will go. Hell, talking about how ****ty the Knicks are is getting old.

    Since I think the Shaq trade will make the Suns worse, then I vote for losing in game 5 of the 2nd round. I could even see a 1st round exit, depending on who they play.

  3. #33
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Worst. Trade. Ever. lol. Well, maybe the Curry trade was worse. Are the Suns going to completely change their style of play now? The style they've been playing for 4 years and the style that Dantoni is convinced will win a championship.

    The reason the Suns got rid of Kurt Thomas was so they could stay under the salary cap, but now they've taken on more salary for a player that doesn't fit into their system as well as Kurt Thomas.

    Are they going to run pick and rolls with Shaq or are they going to now completely change and become a post-up/inside-outside team? What about the run-and-gun offense? How will that work with an injured and old 330 pound man?

    This is like an Isiah trade. Just get whatever you can, regardless of the system played and matching of talents.
    while i do agree this is a bad trade i wouldnt call it the worst lol and i agree that the suns were stupid to trade away kurt(just like isiah waz) he is a great post defender, which shaq is no longer. shaq is not mobile enough to guard the bigs of the west and be effective. and the classic pick and roll (which steve nash loves doin) will be completely ineffective cuz shaq cant shoot. the suns could have traded 4 kirenlinko, or vince carter, and yet they choose shaq?

  4. #34
    Superstar Pricey's Avatar
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    did u know this trade was offered a week ago but the suns said no to it and then Gasol goes to the Lakers and all of a sudden they accept it???

    PANIC TRADE!!!

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    Phoenix management must feel they only have 1 or 2 years left to win the championship (then guys like Nash will start sliding down hill) and they don't have the pieces they need to win the west now.

    If so, this is one of those very rare occasions that it might make sense to take on an aging player with a huge contract in a desperate attempt to win the championship.

    They must think that the combination of Shaq at C and Stoudemire at PF is superior to Stoudemire at C and Marion at PF for the next 2 years. After that, you'd obviously want Marion because he'll still be good and Shaq will be retired.

    The real issue is how much Shaq has left. He's been poor this year relative to the Shaq we are used to, but he has been hurt and may get re-energized by being on a good team. They don't need him to score much. What they need from him is to rebound, start the fast break, and then take a nap until the teams head back down to the other end. The also need for him to play solid defense. In half court games (like in the playoffs), he will fit much better. They will just have to work out something in the post between him and Stoudemire.

    The other thing he brings to the team are the intangibles. He's a winner, can rise to the occasion, handles pressure etc...

    Of course, there were negative intangibles with Marion. Marion felt disrespected for awhile and supposedly there was also some tension with Stoudemire because they both wanted more shots. It's hard to win in that kind of environment.

    The deal is a slam dunk for Miami. They are going to get a great pick this year. Wade + Marion + Top Pick = instant younger playoff contender next year.

    For Phoenix it all depends on what Shaq has left. If they win the championhsip it was a great deal. If not, it really doesn't matter all that much that they aren't as good a team because I don't think they were going to win it all anyway.
    Last edited by knicklover; Feb 07, 2008 at 18:00.

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    Superstar Pricey's Avatar
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    Also Banks can play so another plus there to Miami.

    Did u see Stoudamire's defence in both overtimes..... non existent.

    Missed Marion badly. Shaq wont be able to defend as well as Stoudamire either. When it comes to crunchtime they wont get it done.

    They are now the no-defence suns.

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    Wasn't banks sent to the D-league not too long ago? Maybe I am mistaken. I don't know if Marion is excited about going to the heat. I am not sure what Marion wants more... to get a ring... or money.

    If Marion wants a ring I would figure he wouldn't be happy going to the heat, and if he wants money I do not think the Heat would sign him to a big contract.

    So does Marion have drive to play?

  8. #38
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    the more people i hear on epsn say that this trade makes sense, the more i laugh. This will never work out. There is no way shaq could play in that offense. I mean i hope it does. I love shaq and and the suns are one of my fav teams, but its not guna work out. And about marion-the heat won big time. Marion is an all star. shaq is overweight. marion is 29 and in his prime. Shaq is 35 and just out of his prime. Good luck Suns.

  9. #39
    Go 1990s New York Knicks! nyKnicks126's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Pricey
    Also Banks can play so another plus there to Miami.

    Did u see Stoudamire's defence in both overtimes..... non existent.

    Missed Marion badly. Shaq wont be able to defend as well as Stoudamire either. When it comes to crunchtime they wont get it done.

    They are now the no-defence suns.
    Every excellent point, I agree 100%

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    at the end of the day, suns could have gotten way more for Marion.
    Suns game style will now change.
    Shaq has fouled out 6 times this season due to being slow and missed 15 games or so due to injury. Makes no sense at all.
    Everyone knows Marion wasnt happy at Phoenix and the players didnt get along that well with him but surely they r not dumb enough to recognise that this is a bad deal for them.

    Anyways hopefully it works out for both teams but Miami r def looking good.
    Next season they have Wade, Marion, Davis, and are currently the worst record in the league so odds r they could get 1 or 2 pick at the lottery. Imagine adding Beasley or Rose to that!!!

  11. #41
    The Gold Mac MSGKnickz33's Avatar
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    Shaq claims that he likes running. If he can get up and down the court who knows, the suns can be tough. The more I think about the more stuck I am in between. Im no longer sure how this trade will turn out. Phoenix might play more half court which i think they have the players to be effective in. It really depends on what kind of shape Shaq can get himself into and what he has left in the tank.

  12. #42

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    The Suns weren't winning a title with the team that they had and even though they're probably still not winning a title with Shaq at least Kerr made an effort to at least make the Suns interesting. Who knows maybe Shaq will actually play a defensive role and rebound on this team because that's what the Suns are asking him to do. Phil Jackson put it best when asked how O'Neal would best fit in with Phoenix, "Well, taking the ball out of bounds and waiting for the other team to get back." Sounds funny but if you think about it he's right.

    The real winner here, yet again, is Pat the Rat. Trading an aging superstar with a huge contract for a guy still in his prime that is a better fit for his team. Even if Marion's play falls off his contract is shorter then Shaq's anyway. I can't stand Riley but you gotta respect the hell outta the guy the Heat are gonna stink this year but they'll probably be back in the playoffs, threatening for a title within the next season or two. F Riley!!!



    Originally Posted by metrocard
    New Orleans are better than Golden State, Denver, Dallas and Detroit. Don't underestimate the best guard in the NBA, Chris Paul.
    Can we see the Hornets do something in the playoffs first before we say they're better then a team like Detroit? They've had a great year so far but one bad stretch and they're out of the playoffs.

    Do you mean Chris Paul the best guard or the best point guard in the NBA? If you mean the former you're forgetting about Kobe. I've never been a fan of his but he has been so good this year it's crazy. Him and Lebron are head and shoulders better then anybody else in the league. The Wade I saw in 2006 playoffs I would also take over Paul but for whatever reason Wade is not the same player these days so right now I'd have to take Paul. The other guy I would take over Paul is Deron Williams. Williams is playoff tested, bigger, stronger, a better shooter and defender. Plus when these two play head to head Deron Williams eats Chris Paul for lunch.

    Paul
    Wins 1
    PPG 13.8
    FG Pct. 37.9
    APG 8.1
    Williams
    Wins 7
    PPG 17.4
    FG Pct. 57.3
    APG 6.1

    ...and don't forget Williams wasn't playing as much in their rookie years.




    To top things off they played last Monday and Williams killed Paul again in a Jazz blowout win.




    Paul
    Pts 6
    Asts 6
    TO 5
    PF 5
    Shooting 3-11

    Williams
    Pts 29
    Asts 11
    TO 3
    PF 0
    Shooting 11-13

  13. #43
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    Pistons are old news, Hornets > Pistons.

    Paul is as good as Kobe, Paul is the MVP right now which makes him the best guard in the NBA. Hornets would be the worst team in the NBA without Paul; with him they're one of the best right now.

    Williams has never been better than Paul, not in college(being on a good final four team doesn't make you better individually than the superiorly talented and more skilled player), not in the NBA. Paul is better than Williams, at everything.

    Its pretty obvious to an outside observer who watches both play that Chris Paul is far and away superior to Deron Williams. Williams is a great player, but Chris Paul is a legitimate MVP candidate.

    Chris Paul is averaging over 20 points and 10 assists a game, and he's STILL able to make his teammate (David West) into an all-star player. In his young career he's already leading his team into the top spots in the West, neck and neck with the veteran Nash's Suns.

    Paul is younger and has a higher ceiling and has shown more leadership ability and better PG skills than Williams. Paul is a more patient PG where Deron has a tendancy to chuck up shots and rush plays(his weaknesses). Paul is the most poise PG in the NBA and he's only 22.

    The only people who think or thought Williams > Paul are Jazz homers.

    Paul's defense is just as good as Deron. Williams has a better shooting percentage, but that's about where the argument ends. Paul is better in every other category and has been all three years of their respective careers.
    Oh and, midrange shooting > 3pt shooting; higher accuracy, Paul is the superior mid range shooting with an improving 3pt shot, and is superior at the line. 75% FT is pretty sad for a PG.

    Chris Paul is the future of USA Basketball. Chris Paul set a Team USA World Championship assist record with 44 assists, and is going to hold down that PG spot until he's 33-35. Its not really much of a comparison and doesn't need any further explanation, Paul is better than Williams and I would pick Paul a million times out of a hundred over Williams, so would other NBA GM's, players, and everyone in this planet except your monkey ass and Jazz homers.

  14. #44

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    You're really funny metro. How do you explain Williams schooling Paul thus far in their NBA careers?

    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Paul is as good as Kobe, Paul is the MVP right now which makes him the best guard in the NBA. Hornets would be the worst team in the NBA without Paul; with him they're one of the best right now.
    Paul is a great player no doubt but that Hornet team has some players on it and constructed well.

    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Williams has never been better than Paul, not in college(being on a good final four team doesn't make you better individually than the superiorly talented and more skilled player), not in the NBA. Paul is better than Williams, at everything.
    This explains why Williams was drafted ahead of Paul and thus far has killed him when they two have played head to head.

    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Its pretty obvious to an outside observer who watches both play that Chris Paul is far and away superior to Deron Williams. Williams is a great player, but Chris Paul is a legitimate MVP candidate.

    In his young career he's already leading his team into the top spots in the West, neck and neck with the veteran Nash's Suns.

    Paul is younger and has a higher ceiling and has shown more leadership ability and better PG skills than Williams. Paul is a more patient PG where Deron has a tendancy to chuck up shots and rush plays(his weaknesses). Paul is the most poise PG in the NBA and he's only 22.
    Already leading his team to the top spot in the West and has shown more leadership??? Do you know how to construct an argument or have you not covered that yet at University? Williams led the Jazz to the Western Conference Finals in his first year as the team's starting point guard.

    Williams chucks shots and rush's plays but yet shoots for a higher percentage then Paul and is only second in the league behind Calderon in point guard shooting percentage. The only thing that is obvious is that you have no clue how to make your case bro.

    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Paul's defense is just as good as Deron. Williams has a better shooting percentage, but that's about where the argument ends. Paul is better in every other category and has been all three years of their respective careers.
    Oh and, midrange shooting > 3pt shooting; higher accuracy, Paul is the superior mid range shooting with an improving 3pt shot, and is superior at the line. 75% FT is pretty sad for a PG.
    Paul is a solid defender but not as good as Williams. Williams is bigger, stronger and just as quick on the d. Heck Williams I think is the strongest player at his position. This is once again evidenced when they play against one another and Williams shuts down Paul.

    Paul's jump shot is nowhere near as good as Williams the fact that you would suggest that is laughable. What's even funnier is that you argue for Paul but don't even know what Paul's strengths are. What Paul does better then Williams is his ability to get to the lane and either drive to the bucket for a floater, layup, much like Tony Parker, or dish to his teammates. The reason why Williams has consistently outplayed him so far is because he doesn't allow Paul to get into the lane thus forcing him to take jumpers and Paul's jump shot is the weak part of his game because he is a very inconsistent shooter.


    You can't go wrong with either point but thus far in their careers Williams has been better.

  15. #45
    Superstar pat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Detroit doesn't scare anyone, they couldn't even beat Cleveland in a series.

    Dallas is only a regular season team, they have no stability and their starters have been injury prone.

    New Orleans are better than Golden State, Denver, Dallas and Detroit. Don't underestimate the best guard in the NBA, Chris Paul.

    Back to this trade, here is my input.

    It seems like an Isiah-like move what Kerr did, but we need to look deeper.

    If Shaq does get back in Shaq and gets back to his serious work ethic, its a good deal for Phoneix. Phoneix doesn't play much defense, so it shouldn't a problem for O'Neil. Phoneix obviously went from a small team to a giant team

    Nash at 6"3
    Bell at 6"5
    Hill at 6"8
    Amare at 6"10
    Shaq at 7"1

    Shaq's court awareness and passing skills aren't diminished. Nash, Hill, and Shaq are really some of the best passers at their positions, them playing together makes Phoneix's half court offense the best in the NBA, behind the Lakers. If Phoneix wants to speed up the tempo, you'll sub in Diaw and Barbosa, not a problem.

    People are bitching about this trade because Shaq isn't the 28 ppg 12 rebound guy anymore, but he still can be very serviceable with his skills, veteran leadership and the respect he gets on the court with his size and power.

    If Shaq develops a 3pt shot out of no where, Phoneix will average 130 ppg, literally.

    For Miami, its not a bad deal. All they need now is Beasley at PF and sign a defensive minded center and try to grab a PG, and they'll have a pretty legit team.


    Drafted PG
    Wade
    Marion
    Beasley
    Center

    Not bad.

    Understandable deal for both team.
    Excellent post. Don't underestimate this guy. He knows how to win games and the Suns have enough scorers + Diaw can fill the void Marion has left.

    Originally Posted by Pricey
    he is giving away simple fouls and it results in him being on the bench.

    How slow is the suns offense going to be now with Shaq lumbering up and down the court? He isnt the same player.
    Also Shaqs contract is MASSIVE, what were they thinking.
    He just has to run the trailer and sometimes not even that. So if they want to play fast they can. But all of a sudden they will get more open outside shots against good transition-d teams. Just look on the percentage Nash shoots from outside already. Also, Shaq probably even likes the idea of not having to carry the team. It's like the old Wilt Chamberlain.

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