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Thread: Shaq to the Suns?

  1. #46
    Superstar Pricey's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Eddy Currys House Special
    The Suns weren't winning a title with the team that they had and even though they're probably still not winning a title with Shaq at least Kerr made an effort to at least make the Suns interesting. Who knows maybe Shaq will actually play a defensive role and rebound on this team because that's what the Suns are asking him to do. Phil Jackson put it best when asked how O'Neal would best fit in with Phoenix, "Well, taking the ball out of bounds and waiting for the other team to get back." Sounds funny but if you think about it he's right.

    The real winner here, yet again, is Pat the Rat. Trading an aging superstar with a huge contract for a guy still in his prime that is a better fit for his team. Even if Marion's play falls off his contract is shorter then Shaq's anyway. I can't stand Riley but you gotta respect the hell outta the guy the Heat are gonna stink this year but they'll probably be back in the playoffs, threatening for a title within the next season or two. F Riley!!!





    Can we see the Hornets do something in the playoffs first before we say they're better then a team like Detroit? They've had a great year so far but one bad stretch and they're out of the playoffs.

    Do you mean Chris Paul the best guard or the best point guard in the NBA? If you mean the former you're forgetting about Kobe. I've never been a fan of his but he has been so good this year it's crazy. Him and Lebron are head and shoulders better then anybody else in the league. The Wade I saw in 2006 playoffs I would also take over Paul but for whatever reason Wade is not the same player these days so right now I'd have to take Paul. The other guy I would take over Paul is Deron Williams. Williams is playoff tested, bigger, stronger, a better shooter and defender. Plus when these two play head to head Deron Williams eats Chris Paul for lunch.

    Paul
    Wins 1
    PPG 13.8
    FG Pct. 37.9
    APG 8.1
    Williams
    Wins 7
    PPG 17.4
    FG Pct. 57.3
    APG 6.1

    ...and don't forget Williams wasn't playing as much in their rookie years.




    To top things off they played last Monday and Williams killed Paul again in a Jazz blowout win.




    Paul
    Pts 6
    Asts 6
    TO 5
    PF 5
    Shooting 3-11

    Williams
    Pts 29
    Asts 11
    TO 3
    PF 0
    Shooting 11-13
    Wades not the same as when they won the title cause A) he is playing hurt and B) the refs aren riding his d1ck at the moment like they did in that finals series.

    Hornets r the real deal, yes we have to wait til the playoffs to see just howgood they are but this year to date they have been one of the best teams and Paul and West are getting it done. Chris Paul is the best PG in the league.

  2. #47
    Superstar Pricey's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Eddy Currys House Special
    You're really funny metro. How do you explain Williams schooling Paul thus far in their NBA careers?



    Paul is a great player no doubt but that Hornet team has some players on it and constructed well.



    This explains why Williams was drafted ahead of Paul and thus far has killed him when they two have played head to head.



    Already leading his team to the top spot in the West and has shown more leadership??? Do you know how to construct an argument or have you not covered that yet at University? Williams led the Jazz to the Western Conference Finals in his first year as the team's starting point guard.

    Williams chucks shots and rush's plays but yet shoots for a higher percentage then Paul and is only second in the league behind Calderon in point guard shooting percentage. The only thing that is obvious is that you have no clue how to make your case bro.



    Paul is a solid defender but not as good as Williams. Williams is bigger, stronger and just as quick on the d. Heck Williams I think is the strongest player at his position. This is once again evidenced when they play against one another and Williams shuts down Paul.

    Paul's jump shot is nowhere near as good as Williams the fact that you would suggest that is laughable. What's even funnier is that you argue for Paul but don't even know what Paul's strengths are. What Paul does better then Williams is his ability to get to the lane and either drive to the bucket for a floater, layup, much like Tony Parker, or dish to his teammates. The reason why Williams has consistently outplayed him so far is because he doesn't allow Paul to get into the lane thus forcing him to take jumpers and Paul's jump shot is the weak part of his game because he is a very inconsistent shooter.


    You can't go wrong with either point but thus far in their careers Williams has been better.
    Chris Paul is def a better player then Williams but Williams is still a gun PG and schooled Paul in the recent win over the Hornets. This however doesnt mean he is a better player then Paul.
    I agree though that Williams career to date has been better then Pauls but look at what Paul had compared to Williams, Williams walked into a side which was already a playoff side where Paul walked into a **** team but has now made it into a contender in the west, yes i said it.... a contender.
    Watching that game against the Suns made me realise that they r for real and can get it done.

  3. #48
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    Nothing is funny except you getting the business in yet another lop sided debate in my favor, as everyone laughs at you.

    Williams has a better supporting cast with 3 borderline all stars(Okur as an ex all star, Boozer, and Kirilenko).

    Williams "schooling" (why do you use such elementary terms that already make your boring post more boring?)Paul is irrelevant. Paul is better player and a MVP candidate, Williams isn't. You know this reminds me of? When people were on here saying Curry was going to be an all-star and all that junk, and the future only punched them in the face with their stupidity. Paul has been, is, and will be better than Williams.

    In High School, Paul was ranked 3rd in his position and 14th overall. Williams was ranked 8th in his position. Paul = 5 star prospect Williams = 4 star

    Paul 1 Williams - 0

    At college

    Paul

    15 ppg
    47% FG
    47% 3pt
    6.3 assist
    2.5 steals

    in a tougher conference


    Keep in mind Paul had a superior Freshman season where Williams was a nonexistent factor for Illinois his first year; didn't even get close to averaging double figures.

    Williams
    11 ppg
    42% FG
    37% 3pt
    67% FT
    5.9 assist
    1.1

    Also, I'm gonna guess you're not a college bball head so I'm going to remind you Williams was out of shape at this time and was looked down as the inferior prospect compared to Paul.


    During the draft, most NBA scouts and I felt Paul would clearly be the better prospect.

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    We turned out to be right.

    College years(Paul's frosh and soph vs William's, Paul wins twice)
    Paul - 3 Williams - 0

    Chris Paul won rookie of the year, I don't need to go into detail about the rookie season between the two, even though you can be hardheaded and ignorant enough to blatantly deny Paul won rookie of the year and say it was a conspiracy.

    Chris Paul lead the Hornets to 38 wins in the toughest division in 2005-06 @ Western Conference. Who did Paul have on his team? Speedy Claxton, Desmond Mason, Kirk Synder, Aaron Williams, Rasual Butler, Nachbar, JR Smith. All bench players. The only respectable figure on that team is David West; who was a 6 ppg bench scrub before Chris Paul arrived. Who can do better than that? Definitely not Williams who was an 10 ppg 4 assist rookie who spent half of his season riding the bench because of his inconsistency.

    Season 1
    Paul - 4 Williams - 0

    What university you unemployed jackass? I attend MC, the best college in the world.

    The 2nd season, Paul was hurt, his team was banged up(Peja disappeared), so it would be ******* of you to use that season in favor of Williams; since you're hopeless in this debate; I'll give it to you.

    Paul - 4 Williams - 1

    Watch Williams play, his poise and PG skills are no where near Paul's; don't call me bro...whats wrong with you? You haven't stepped up your posting ever to be on that level with me.

    Paul turned David West into an all star player, this can't be argued. Peja has been injury prone, and Paul has made Chandler look like a decent player on offense, which everyone thought was the impossible. If you can't understand what Chris Paul has done for the Hornets and how much value he has, then give up following basketball. I told you this a long time you, you have a problem ignoring the facts.

    Hornets will continue to be an elite team in the West, Jazz play in the WEAKEST division in the WEST. Where as Paul has to carry his team through Dallas, Houston and SAN ANTONIO; there are no T'Wolves or Seattles in Paul's division.

    Paul's defense is better. Hey try something new, like watching the games. Paul's defense has been CLUTCH all season long for the Hornets.




    Paul has superior footwork and quickness on defense(How stupid are you to even compare Paul and William's quickness, two totally different levels).

    Williams defense is overrated, especially by guys like you who just read overdated articles from years ago not listen or watch the games in present time.



    Where was William's on Marbury? Why isn't he running the court to give help defense? William's lazy defense lost the game for Utah. Chris Paul's help defense >>> William's.

    You'll never catch Paul snoozing on defense, ever.



    Even Crawford made Williams his son.

    The Hornets are 5th in defense 94.5 in the NBA; where was Utah gives up a 100 points per game. Keep in mind the weak offensive teams in Utah's division like Portland, Seattle and Minnesota; only threat is Denver. Paul has to do it all against the big Texas 3 powerhouses; where San Antonio and Houston grind and pound the ball inside.

    So not only Paul is having a better season, but he's doing it against superior competition and has gotten better results for his team.

    So far
    Paul - 5 Williams - 1

    The advantage for Paul will continue to increase as his hall of fame career continues.

  4. #49

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    Originally Posted by Pricey
    I agree though that Williams career to date has been better then Pauls but look at what Paul had compared to Williams, Williams walked into a side which was already a playoff side where Paul walked into a **** team but has now made it into a contender in the west, yes i said it
    Already a playoff side??? The Jazz lost 56 games before Williams got there. But as you said here which is exactly what I'm saying to date Deron Williams has been a better player in the NBA

    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Williams has a better supporting cast with 3 borderline all stars(Okur as an ex all star, Boozer, and Kirilenko).
    West, Peja and Chandler are what scrubs? Or let me guess those 3 are good because of Paul? Boozer is better then West, but I'd take Chandler and Peja over Okur and Kirilenko.


    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Williams "schooling" (why do you use such elementary terms that already make your boring post more boring?)Paul is irrelevant. Paul is better player and a MVP candidate, Williams isn't. You know this reminds me of? When people were on here saying Curry was going to be an all-star and all that junk, and the
    Metro it is impossible to have a debate with you because you take disagreements personally and immediately go into attack mode. I've had enough of you going on about 'facts' when you only bring up things that benefit your point of view and completely ignore anything that is not in your favor. I mean you basically disregarded everything I wrote and gave me a bunch of college stats and even then Williams' team did better then Paul's. To compare Deron Williams to Jiggly Eddy is ridiculous.

    I never said Paul is no good all I said was at this point in their NBA careers Deron Williams has been the better player. He has already led his team to the Western Conference Finals and when these two have played head to head he has embarrassed Paul in every single way.

    Come back at me however you like but the only thing you're proving is how insecure and childish you are. I hope for your sake you behave this way just for kicks.

  5. #50
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    They are better because of Paul, Peja has fell down from his all star level and isn't an all star anymore. Paul is only playing wth one legit all star; we all know David West won't produce all star numbers playing without Paul.

    Boozer >>> West, Peja, or Chandler. The point is, its not even debatable who's a better point guard with superior vision, poise and control of tempo.

    My points stand strong and uncorrected therefor it is hard to debate with me when I bring the facts, the stats, the assessments and even the videos to prove my point. Maybe someday you can be like me.

    You're not worthy to attack, and I don't know you personally or would want to know to you, so stop overreacting over simplistic bull****.

    Everything you've stated was wrong and were shut down with the information I posted in my previous post. If you would like to try again and come back with harder information, I would love to read that over hearing you bitching and crying about everyone posting too much information and ignoring what you say.

    Derek Fisher has a nice collection of rings and was a PG on a pretty good team, better than Nash's Suns. I'm guessing Fisher > Nash because Fisher's team went further than Nash? This never proves to be right; we're comparing players, not teams.

    Paul has the better team now, is a MVP candidate and is the SUPERIOR player, no question. The season before Paul was banged up and played with one of the worst rosters in the NBA that no one can save. Paul's rookie season blows Williams rookie season away. The only string you're holding on to William's Western Conference appearance where he had an elite supporting cast of Boozer, Milsap, Okur, Fisher, Harping and Kirilenko. Most of these players were legit before Deron Williams developed into a starter. Who the hell was David West before Chris Paul? 4 ppg scorer off the bench, 9th man? Paul made him an all star; even Pargo is producing playing with Paul, and offensively challenged guys like Chandler. Theres no comparison, at all. Paul is the best PG in the NBA and right now the best guard in the world. He's the first guy I would build my team around, with Lebron 2nd, and Howard 3rd. Deron isn't even in that class of athletes.

  6. #51

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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    They are better because of Paul, Peja has fell down from his all star level and isn't an all star anymore. Paul is only playing wth one legit all star; we all know David West won't produce all star numbers playing without Paul.

    Boozer >>> West, Peja, or Chandler. The point is, its not even debatable who's a better point guard with superior vision, poise and control of tempo.

    My points stand strong and uncorrected therefor it is hard to debate with me when I bring the facts, the stats, the assessments and even the videos to prove my point. Maybe someday you can be like me.

    You're not worthy to attack, and I don't know you personally or would want to know to you, so stop overreacting over simplistic bull****.

    Everything you've stated was wrong and were shut down with the information I posted in my previous post. If you would like to try again and come back with harder information, I would love to read that over hearing you bitching and crying about everyone posting too much information and ignoring what you say.

    Derek Fisher has a nice collection of rings and was a PG on a pretty good team, better than Nash's Suns. I'm guessing Fisher > Nash because Fisher's team went further than Nash? This never proves to be right; we're comparing players, not teams.

    Paul has the better team now, is a MVP candidate and is the SUPERIOR player, no question. The season before Paul was banged up and played with one of the worst rosters in the NBA that no one can save. Paul's rookie season blows Williams rookie season away. The only string you're holding on to William's Western Conference appearance where he had an elite supporting cast of Boozer, Milsap, Okur, Fisher, Harping and Kirilenko. Most of these players were legit before Deron Williams developed into a starter. Who the hell was David West before Chris Paul? 4 ppg scorer off the bench, 9th man? Paul made him an all star; even Pargo is producing playing with Paul, and offensively challenged guys like Chandler. Theres no comparison, at all. Paul is the best PG in the NBA and right now the best guard in the world. He's the first guy I would build my team around, with Lebron 2nd, and Howard 3rd. Deron isn't even in that class of athletes.
    And what about Williams outplaying Paul badly every time they play?

    Whatever the case we have about another ten years or so before we could legitimately say which one is a better point guard.

    Also the way he has played this season, Kobe is the best player in the world. You would start your team with Paul over Duncan, Kobe and Shaq?

  7. #52
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    Kobe has never been the best player in the league, in his career; never won the MVP too. Imagine Gasol/Bynum/Odom on Paul's team? Atleast Paul isn't a ***** like Kobe; crying all summer because he couldn't take his team out the first round.

    Paul is 22 and already the best in the NBA at making his teammates better, he's an elite athlete at his position, has great character, work ethic and is a good role model.

    Yes, I would start a 22 year old Paul over those 30 year old superstars, especially a Shaq on the decline. Its not hard to agree with this, just use some logic and common sense. I don't know anyone who would start a franchise today with Shaq over Paul...what you guys been smoking this weekend? Been reading some funny ish.

  8. #53

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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Kobe has never been the best player in the league, in his career; never won the MVP too. Imagine Gasol/Bynum/Odom on Paul's team? Atleast Paul isn't a ***** like Kobe; crying all summer because he couldn't take his team out the first round.

    Paul is 22 and already the best in the NBA at making his teammates better, he's an elite athlete at his position, has great character, work ethic and is a good role model.

    Yes, I would start a 22 year old Paul over those 30 year old superstars, especially a Shaq on the decline. Its not hard to agree with this, just use some logic and common sense. I don't know anyone who would start a franchise today with Shaq over Paul...what you guys been smoking this weekend? Been reading some funny ish.
    I meant all things being equal not a their current ages obviously nobody would start a team with a 36 year old Shaq. I thought that much was obvious.

    Kobe has been playing the best ball of his career this season and it should be very interesting to see how the Lakers do in the playoffs.

    I always smoke the best greens man .

  9. #54
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    Originally Posted by Eddy Currys House Special
    I meant all things being equal not a their current ages obviously nobody would start a team with a 36 year old Shaq. I thought that much was obvious.

    Kobe has been playing the best ball of his career this season and it should be very interesting to see how the Lakers do in the playoffs.

    I always smoke the best greens man .
    Nah homie, you said "You would start your team with Paul over Duncan, Kobe and Shaq?" Very directly. If you didn't mean to say something stupid like that then drop the blunt and add more detail to your statements. Its not obvious when you question starting a franchise with Shaq over Paul mad directly to me.

  10. #55
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    Kobe Bryant vs Chris Paul would make a much better debate then Chris Paul vs Deron Williams. Thats a complete joke. Deron is one of the best young point guards in the NBA. I dont believe either point guard has the best teams around them but they both have players who are far more capable then the players we see on the Knicks.

    Stats support the fact that Paul is better then Williams. Deron has better shooting percentages but thats it. Paul averages over twice as many steals but as Metro pointed out his defense has been big all year for the Hornets so as dominating as the defensive stats are (In CP3's favor) they dont even tell the whole story. Deron Williams is an average defender at best. Look at what Marbury does to him everytime the play each other.

    I hate it when people try to argue because of playoff experience one player is better then another. I think it was Metro or someone on here who pointed out that Avery Johnson won a championship but does that make him better then alot of pg's who havent?

    Damn, I was just readin more of this thread and Metro really destoyed the buffet. I come back after not bein on here yesterday to see a Chris Paul vs Deron Williams arguement. This is classic sh*t right here, who the F*ck do you hear talkin about Deron Williams for MVP? NOBODY

    And again, I think williams is one of the top 10 point guards in the NBA but theres no question whos number 1. I dont think anyone can be argued against Paul and what hes done for the Hornets. I never saw them bein this good this year.

    Kobe vs Chris Paul

    In terms of whos talented or whos the better players thats tough but who would I rather build a team around (with age not factored in)? easily Chris Paul. He is the perfect point guard: Scores, defends, passes, leadership, he does everything. Chris Paul is that dude no homo.

  11. #56

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    Could either of you at least explain why, if he's so much better, Deron Williams outplays (badly at that) Chris Paul every time they play?

    If there is a god I hope the Hornets and Jazz play in the playoffs this season haha.

    I don't remember anyone ever owning Jordan back in the day, or any center owning Shaq in his prime or Hakeem in his prime or for that matter Kobe or Lebron now.

    Kobe is the best player in the world right now almost every NBA guy, coach, gm or player has said that this season, even Lebron himself. I gotta hand it to Kobe I never thought he'd grow up but he has.

  12. #57

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    Originally Posted by MSGKnickz33
    Deron Williams is an average defender at best. Look at what Marbury does to him everytime the play each other.
    Holy crap you guys are funny, how about what Williams does to Paul every time they play each other???? Does that not count for anything or does it only count, as usual, when things happen to the players I'm arguing for? haha

    Originally Posted by MSGKnickz33
    I hate it when people try to argue because of playoff experience one player is better then another.
    Ma dude I never said playoff experience I was talking, much like I did with Baron Davis, playoff PERFORMANCE!!!

  13. #58
    Superstar pat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    My points stand strong and uncorrected therefor it is hard to debate with me when I bring the facts, the stats, the assessments and even the videos to prove my point. Maybe someday you can be like me.
    On facts, stats and assessments I would recommend reading Francois Lyotard " La Condition postmoderne: Rapport sur le savoir (The Postmodern Condition: A Report on Knowledge) (1979),"

    As far as video as proof is concerned Jean Baudrillard's "Simulacra and Simulation (1981)" proved to be woth reading (at least to me.) You wouldn't say that the there was no collateral damage in the first Gulf War just because there wasn't any on the tapes Schwarzkopf showed us every evening, would you? So there are several things Deron Williams does that cannot be seen on a youtube video.

  14. #59

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    Originally Posted by pat
    On facts, stats and assessments I would recommend reading Francois Lyotard " La Condition postmoderne: Rapport sur le savoir (The Postmodern Condition: A Report on Knowledge) (1979),"

    As far as video as proof is concerned Jean Baudrillard's "Simulacra and Simulation (1981)" proved to be woth reading (at least to me.) You wouldn't say that the there was no collateral damage in the first Gulf War just because there wasn't any on the tapes Schwarzkopf showed us every evening, would you? So there are several things Deron Williams does that cannot be seen on a youtube video.
    Nice effort but don't waste your breath dropping names like Lyotard and Baudrillard to the likes of Metrocard who's the type that thinks Lyotad and Baudrillard is french for a hamburger with cheese and who's version of postmodernism is playstation 4.

    Next time for my sake drop some kind of Godard or Anna Karina reference ;-).

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    Originally Posted by pat
    On facts, stats and assessments I would recommend reading Francois Lyotard " La Condition postmoderne: Rapport sur le savoir (The Postmodern Condition: A Report on Knowledge) (1979),"

    As far as video as proof is concerned Jean Baudrillard's "Simulacra and Simulation (1981)" proved to be woth reading (at least to me.) You wouldn't say that the there was no collateral damage in the first Gulf War just because there wasn't any on the tapes Schwarzkopf showed us every evening, would you? So there are several things Deron Williams does that cannot be seen on a youtube video.
    There are several things Deron Williams doesn't do that Chris Paul does. Chris Paul has been clutch on defense all season long; I can't help you if you don't follow the NBA along with Pancakes.

    Pancakes, you're a college drop out. I'm going to be a certified trainer next sesmester; already got mad experience within the physical ed department working as an educator for elementary schools, a pta, and a a lot of gym experience only at 19. My young ass has mad potential, will stay fit and healthy, help other people stay fit and healthy, get money for it and get to **** my hot clients for free; while you sit home all day butt naked eating doritos and pancakes with Curry. Who gives a what some French, German, Belgium guys say? I'm my own philosopher, an elite one too. You need to take your notes, clearly comprehend what I'm texting because it will only make you better. I'm here to help, thats my job.

    Notice how terrible these guys are at making points and actually making this a debate lopsided in my favor they have to change the discussion about "Rapport sur le savoir". Tu es completement debile.

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