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Thread: The Bible - Proof that Christianity is True

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    God's Cool Designs...






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    One last thing for you all to ponder. All this talk about the bible being perfect and predicting all of these prophecies and being the only true religion need to understand that almost everything in the bible was stolen from the Pagans and other religions developed long before the bible was written and Christianity formed. Yet, Christians call these other religious stories myths. Ever notice that the birth of Christ and the death of Christ, and many other important Christian dates fall on solstices and equinoxes?

    So why do Christians consider these myths but not there own stories myths?

    << When Osiris is said to bring his believers eternal life in Egyptian Heaven, contemplating the unutterable, indescribable glory of God, we understand that as a myth.

    When the sacred rites of Demeter at Eleusis are described as bringing believers happiness in their eternal life, we understand that as a myth. >>


    << In fact, when ancient writers tell us that in general ancient people believed in eternal life, with the good going to the Elysian Fields and the not so good going to Hades, we understand that as a myth.

    << When Vespatian's spittle healed a blind man, we understand that as a myth.

    When Apollonius of Tyana raised a girl from death, we understand that as a myth. >>

    << When the Pythia , the priestess at the Oracle at Delphi, in Greece, prophesied, and over and over again for a thousand years, the prophecies came true, we understand that as a myth.

    When Dionysus turned water into wine, we understand that as a myth. When Dionysus believers are filled with atay, the Spirit of God, we understand that as a myth. >>

    << When Romulus is described as the Son of God, born of a virgin, we understand that as a myth.

    When Alexander the Great is described as the Son of God, born of a mortal woman, we understand that as a myth. >>

    << When Augustus is described as the Son of God, born of a mortal , we understand that as a myth.

    When Dionysus is described as the Son of God, born of a mortal woman, we understand that as a myth. >>

    << When Scipio Africanus (Scipio Africanus, for Christ's sake) is described as the Son of God, born of a mortal woman, we understand that as a myth.

    So how come when Jesus is described as
    the Son of God,
    born of a mortal woman,
    according to prophecy,
    turning water into wine,
    raising girls from the dead, and
    healing blind men with his spittle,
    and setting it up so His believers got eternal life in Heaven contemplating the unutterable, indescribable glory of God, and off to Hades—er, I mean Hell—for the bad folks...
    how come that's not a myth?

    And how come, in a culture with all those Sons of God, where miracles were science, where Heaven and Hell and God and eternal life and salvation were in the temples, in the philosophies, in the books, were dancing and howling in street festivals, how come we imagine Jesus and the stories about him developed all on their own, all by themselves, without picking up any of their stuff from the culture they sprang from, the culture full of the same sort of stuff?

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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Yes, Jesus existed. That's a historical fact. What is not a fact is that he was the son of God. People thought David Koresh was the son of God too and that he performed miracles.

    But, once again, your only source for "proof" is the bible. Yet, I've given you several examples where the bible is not true. For example, it is not true that the earth, or even life on earth is only 6,000 years old. It is proven fact that the earth is much older, 5-6 billions years.

    If you actually believe that life on earth is only 6,000 years old and that all creatures lived on the earth at the same time (dinosaurs, humans, etc.) than you are living in a a mental prison. Because you will ignore facts backed up by data and believe things that a logical person knows are impossible. I'm done with this argument. It is going in circles. I give you facts, you refute them by quoting the bible. I prove the bible is not right, you refute that by quoting the bible. I'll stick with reality.

    And yes, my mind is free, because I can take in facts and analyse them, and then come up with my own conclusions. If a logical, more sound theory than evolution or the big bang theory arises, and is backed up by facts and analysed data, then I will analyse it myself and come up with my own conclusion. You cannot do that. You must believe the bible, and every fact that comes up to disprove the bible, you must ignore.

    It is obvious at this point that neither one will convince the other. All I ask of you is to accept other people's beliefs for what they are. Whether they be athiesm, agnostic, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhism, or multi-denominational. Not everybody is Christian.

    But, I guess, that is my biggest issue with religion. With so many religions and different beliefs, how can just one be right. You profess, with great commitment, that the bible is true. Yet, someone in India professes, with just as much commitment and proof, that Hinduism is true. The only reason you believe in Christianity is because you were raised in a Christian society. The only reason that person believes in Hindism is because they were raised in a Hindu society. So essentially, the location you were born determines whether or not you receive everlasting pardise? That is not a loving, kind God.
    How is it a fact that life on earth is much older? Because humans tell you so? How can human data correctly and honestly show exactly how old the earth is? They guess. That's how. They have nothing to compare its age with. They just guess. Where is this sound proof?

    And I'm sitting here waiting for the day you have actually proven the bible wrong except in your own free mind. Nothing I have posted you have been able to dispute, and what you posted as being contradictions, you just clearly did not do enough research on it yourself to see where YOU went wrong. True story. Not one of the prophecies I have put up have you been able to remotely dispute. the one lacking most proof was when you that A MERCHANT WAS THE REASON ISAIAH AND JOB KNEW THE EARTH WAS ROUND! You have no proof at all in that, just something you heard from somewhere.

    Where is the Bible wrong?

    When a body decomposes after death it sounds something like this right? Gen 3:19 "For dust you are and to dust you will return.”

    The earth is a circle that stands alone in space hanging on nothing, CORRECT?. Sounds a lot like this right? Job 26:
    7 He (God) is stretching out the north over the empty place,
    HANGING THE EARTH UPON NOTHING;


    Isaiah 40:22

    There is One who is dwelling above THE CIRCLE OF THE EARTH, the dwellers in which are as grasshoppers, the One who is stretching out the heavens just as a fine gauze, who spreads them out like a tent in which to dwell

    And we also have the historical facts about the prophesies that have proven to come true that you have not even disputed.

    Plus the bible has not been wrong on any scientific facts. It gives nothing that is baseless in the p.o.v of science. Yet science is wrong a lot of the time.

    For instance:

    The Christian elder Timothy instructed those interested in worshipping the true God not to pay attention to “erratic notions” and “myths.” (1 Timothy 1:3, 4, Byington) Is such caution necessary today? Yes, because wrong ideas about the Bible and its teachings turn people away from true worship. Below are some commonly held ideas about the Bible. Notice the statements from the Bible itself. These can help you to separate myth from fact.

    ▪ Myth: Bible miracles are impossible.

    Fact: Humans have much to learn about God’s creation. No scientist can fully explain gravity, precisely define all the components of an atom, or explain the exact nature of time. “Can you find out the deep things of God, or can you find out to the very limit of the Almighty?” (Job 11:7) Since creation is beyond our complete understanding, capable scientists are becoming increasingly cautious about saying that a certain thing is impossible.

    ▪ Myth: All religions lead to God.

    Fact: “If you remain in my word,” said Jesus, “you are really my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” (John 8:31, 32) If all religions led to God, would their members need to be set free? In fact, Jesus taught that relatively few people are on “the road leading off into life.”—Matthew 7:13, 14.

    And you say that you believe Jesus existed, but doubt Adam and Eve did. But Jesus didn't:

    ▪ Myth: Much of the book of Genesis, including the account about Adam and Eve, is allegory.

    Fact: Jesus’ genealogy right back to Adam was recorded by the Gospel writer Luke. (Luke 3:23-38) If Genesis were myth, then where in the genealogy would the real names end and the so-called legendary ones begin? Jesus, who existed in heaven before coming to earth, believed what was written in Genesis, including the account of Adam and Eve. (Matthew 19:4-6) Thus, to question Genesis is to undermine the credibility of Jesus himself, as well as that of many Bible writers.—1 Chronicles 1:1; 1 Corinthians 15:22; Jude 14.


    Also you say that basically where you live will likely rule you out of everlasting paradise if True Christianity is the only way to God. Well God knowing that false religion is ramped in the world, sent out this commission to his Followers through his son Jesus:

    Mathew 28:18 And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19 Go therefore and MAKE DISCIPLES OF PEOPLES OF ALL THE NATIONS, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

    A disciple is a follower. Christ is the only way to God, and God wants PEOPLE OF ALL NATIONS TO COME TO HIM. That means China, Brazil, India, EVERYWHERE!

    God said this will happen Psalms 37:
    11 But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth,
    And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.
    29 The righteous themselves will possess the earth,
    And they will reside forever upon it.


    The meek and righteous ones is any people that are willing to accept the truth about him and his son, and live righteously. Does not mean those born in America only. EVERYONE WILLING. Open invitation.


    That is why there is one religious group on earth who make it their business to spread this message of the kingdom globally for all to have a chance.. Just like Jesus commissioned.

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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    One last thing for you all to ponder. All this talk about the bible being perfect and predicting all of these prophecies and being the only true religion need to understand that almost everything in the bible was stolen from the Pagans and other religions developed long before the bible was written and Christianity formed. Yet, Christians call these other religious stories myths. Ever notice that the birth of Christ and the death of Christ, and many other important Christian dates fall on solstices and equinoxes?

    So why do Christians consider these myths but not there own stories myths?

    << When Osiris is said to bring his believers eternal life in Egyptian Heaven, contemplating the unutterable, indescribable glory of God, we understand that as a myth.

    When the sacred rites of Demeter at Eleusis are described as bringing believers happiness in their eternal life, we understand that as a myth. >>


    << In fact, when ancient writers tell us that in general ancient people believed in eternal life, with the good going to the Elysian Fields and the not so good going to Hades, we understand that as a myth.

    << When Vespatian's spittle healed a blind man, we understand that as a myth.

    When Apollonius of Tyana raised a girl from death, we understand that as a myth. >>

    << When the Pythia , the priestess at the Oracle at Delphi, in Greece, prophesied, and over and over again for a thousand years, the prophecies came true, we understand that as a myth.

    When Dionysus turned water into wine, we understand that as a myth. When Dionysus believers are filled with atay, the Spirit of God, we understand that as a myth. >>

    << When Romulus is described as the Son of God, born of a virgin, we understand that as a myth.

    When Alexander the Great is described as the Son of God, born of a mortal woman, we understand that as a myth. >>

    << When Augustus is described as the Son of God, born of a mortal , we understand that as a myth.

    When Dionysus is described as the Son of God, born of a mortal woman, we understand that as a myth. >>

    << When Scipio Africanus (Scipio Africanus, for Christ's sake) is described as the Son of God, born of a mortal woman, we understand that as a myth.

    So how come when Jesus is described as
    the Son of God,
    born of a mortal woman,
    according to prophecy,
    turning water into wine,
    raising girls from the dead, and
    healing blind men with his spittle,
    and setting it up so His believers got eternal life in Heaven contemplating the unutterable, indescribable glory of God, and off to Hades—er, I mean Hell—for the bad folks...
    how come that's not a myth?

    And how come, in a culture with all those Sons of God, where miracles were science, where Heaven and Hell and God and eternal life and salvation were in the temples, in the philosophies, in the books, were dancing and howling in street festivals, how come we imagine Jesus and the stories about him developed all on their own, all by themselves, without picking up any of their stuff from the culture they sprang from, the culture full of the same sort of stuff?

    Jesus relied on the bible. You say you believe he existed. Well why did he rely on the bible and not these other sources? None of those supposed sons of God did the things Jesus was able to do. Joseph never slept with Mary when she conceived, how'd Jesus get here?


    Where was Osirus and these other Gods of the Egyptians when Jehovah brought the 10 plagues? How come they did not come to the rescue of their loyal followers? The Israelite God came to theirs. How could Osirus stand by and watch the God of lowly slaves decimate his people? COULD IT BE THAT HE DOES NOT EXIST?

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    Oh, and as far as the cool design video's. It all flys over your head because you don't believe in the bible.

    Once Adam sinned, we were all doomed for death. That is where all these imperfections come from quite simply. But that was not Gods plan, so he plans to fix it. But hey, you'd have to believe in the bible to understand that part.

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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    How is it a fact that life on earth is much older? Because humans tell you so? How can human data correctly and honestly show exactly how old the earth is? They guess. That's how. They have nothing to compare its age with. They just guess. Where is this sound proof?
    It's called carbon dating. It is a very reliable source. For example, carbon-14 is found in every lifeform. Carbon-14 is not stable and as a result it is always undergoing natural radioactive decay. The rate at which C14 decays is absolutely constant. Given any set of C14 atoms, half of them will decay in 5730 years. By measuring the amount of C14 deacy and current composition of C14 atoms they can accurately determine the age of an item. When an artifact or fossil is tested for age, multiple independant scientists will do 6 different styles of testing (testing different carbon atoms as well, C12, C13, etc.) around 14 times each. It is not a guess. It's proven with hard data.

    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    And I'm sitting here waiting for the day you have actually proven the bible wrong except in your own free mind. Nothing I have posted you have been able to dispute, and what you posted as being contradictions, you just clearly did not do enough research on it yourself to see where YOU went wrong. True story. Not one of the prophecies I have put up have you been able to remotely dispute. the one lacking most proof was when you that A MERCHANT WAS THE REASON ISAIAH AND JOB KNEW THE EARTH WAS ROUND! You have no proof at all in that, just something you heard from somewhere.

    Where is the Bible wrong?
    Other false prophesies and contradictions found in the bible:

    Genesis
    God says that if Adam eats from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, then the day that he does so, he will die. But later Adam eats the forbidden fruit (3:6) and yet lives for another 930 years (5:5). 2:17

    As a punishment for killing Abel, God says Cain will be "a fugitive and a vagabond." Yet in just a few verses (4:16-17) Cain will settle down, marry, have a son, and build a city. This is not the activity one would expect from a fugitive and a vagabond. 4:12

    God promises Abram and his descendants all of the land of Canaan. But both history and the bible (Acts 7:5 and Heb.11:13) show that God's promise to Abram was not fulfilled. 13:15, 15:18, 17:8, 28:13-14

    How long was the Egyptian captivity? This verse says 400 years, but Ex.12:40 and Gal.3:17 say 430 years. 15:13

    "In the fourth generation they [Abraham's descendants] shall come hither again." But, if we count Abraham, then their return occurred after seven generations: Abraham, Isaac (Gen.21:1-3), Jacob (Gen.25:19-26), Levi (Gen.35:22-23), Kohath (Ex.6:16), Amramn (Ex.6:18), and Moses (Ex.6:20). 15:16

    God promises Abram's descendants the land of Canaan from the Nile to the Euphrates. But according to Acts 7:5 and Heb.11:13 God's promise to Abram was not fulfilled. 15:18

    God promises to make Isaac's descendents as numerous as "the stars of heaven", which, of course, never happened. The Jews have always been, and will always be, a small minority. 26:4

    God renames Jacob twice (32:28, 35:10 ). God says that Jacob will henceforth be called Israel, but the Bible continues to call him Jacob anyway (47:28-29). And even God himself calls him Jacob in 46:2. 32:28, 35:10

    God calls Jacob Jacob, though he said in Gen.32:28 and 35:10 that he would no longer be called Jacob but Israel. 46:2

    God promises to bring Jacob safely back from Egypt, but Jacob dies in Egypt (Gen.47:28-29) 46:3

    The tribe of Judah will reign "until Shiloh," but Israel's first king (Saul) was from the tribe of Benjamin (Acts 13:21), and most of the time after this prophecy there was no king at all. 49:10

    Contrary to the prophecy in 48:21, Joseph died in Egypt, not Israel. Gen.50:24

    Exodus
    God promises to cast out many nations including the Canaanites and the Jebusites. But he was unable to fulfill his promise. 33:2

    In this verse God says he will write on the stone tablets, but in 34:27 he tells Moses to do the writing. 34:1


    So you see, the bible is not perfect. And just my previous explanation as to how we know life on earth is older than 6,000 years proves that the bible is wrong. So, the bible said the earth was round. The Pagans and Greeks knew this long before the bible was even written.
    Last edited by LJ4ptplay; Jul 01, 2008 at 23:17.

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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Jesus relied on the bible. You say you believe he existed. Well why did he rely on the bible and not these other sources? None of those supposed sons of God did the things Jesus was able to do. Joseph never slept with Mary when she conceived, how'd Jesus get here?
    You must not have read my post:

    Vespatian's spittle healed a blind man

    Apollonius of Tyana raised a girl from death

    Romulus is described as the Son of God, born of a virgin

    Augustus is described as the Son of God, born of a mortal

    Scipio Africanus is described as the Son of God, born of a mortal woman

    Dionysus is described as the Son of God, born of a mortal woman

    Dionysus turned water into wine


    But you missed the point. The bible was written based on these same ideas. It is not unique. The myths of the past were applied to the myths of the bible. A story told again and again.

    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Where was Osirus and these other Gods of the Egyptians when Jehovah brought the 10 plagues? How come they did not come to the rescue of their loyal followers? The Israelite God came to theirs. How could Osirus stand by and watch the God of lowly slaves decimate his people? COULD IT BE THAT HE DOES NOT EXIST?
    Interesting point. Where was God to rescue the thousands of his followers during 9/11 and hurricane Katrina? How could God stand by and watch these, and many other disasters, happen. Thousands of his loyal followers have died from plagues and natural disasters and he did not come to resue them. COULD IT BE THAT HE DOES NOT EXIST? Wait, let me guess, they deserved it. Again, a cruel and vengeful God. But wait, I thought he loved his followers.
    Last edited by LJ4ptplay; Jul 01, 2008 at 22:58.

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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Also you say that basically where you live will likely rule you out of everlasting paradise if True Christianity is the only way to God. Well God knowing that false religion is ramped in the world, sent out this commission to his Followers through his son Jesus:

    Mathew 28:18 And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19 Go therefore and MAKE DISCIPLES OF PEOPLES OF ALL THE NATIONS, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

    A disciple is a follower. Christ is the only way to God, and God wants PEOPLE OF ALL NATIONS TO COME TO HIM. That means China, Brazil, India, EVERYWHERE!

    God said this will happen Psalms 37:
    11 But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth,
    And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.
    29 The righteous themselves will possess the earth,
    And they will reside forever upon it.


    The meek and righteous ones is any people that are willing to accept the truth about him and his son, and live righteously. Does not mean those born in America only. EVERYONE WILLING. Open invitation.


    That is why there is one religious group on earth who make it their business to spread this message of the kingdom globally for all to have a chance.. Just like Jesus commissioned.
    This is the thing that pisses me off the most. Not ignoring facts and logic, but the arrogance to say I am going to heaven because I am right and the rest of the non-christian world is wrong. The rest of the world must change because I am right and they are wrong. I must change the Hindus, Buddists, Muslims and Jews so they can go to heaven. Do you realize how arrogant that sounds?

    Do you realize this is the same thought process Osama Bin Laden has? In his mind, he is fighting a holy war, because he is right and YOU are wrong. He is just as convinced as you and has just as many "facts" about his religion as you have with yours.

    The lack of acceptance is just rude. Let other people live their lives the way they believe. If you want to believe the things you believe, then go right ahead. I was just trying to show you another viewpoint that many other people believe to be true and how they have logically come to accept it. But, that's just it. You are unaccepting of other viewpoints to the point of being irrational. I am done with you. Your irrationality and arrogance does not deserve further acknowledgement.
    Last edited by LJ4ptplay; Jul 01, 2008 at 23:03.

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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    It's called carbon dating. It is a very reliable source. For example, carbon-14 is found in every lifeform. Carbon-14 is not stable and as a result it is always undergoing natural radioactive decay. The rate at which C14 decays is absolutely constant. Given any set of C14 atoms, half of them will decay in 5730 years. By measuring the amount of C14 deacy and current composition of C14 atoms they can accurately determine the age of an item. When an artifact or fossil is tested for age, multiple independant scientists will do 6 different styles of testing (testing different carbon atoms as well, C12, C13, etc.) around 14 times each. It is not a guess. It's proven with hard data.



    Other false prophesies and contradictions found in the bible:

    Genesis
    God says that if Adam eats from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, then the day that he does so, he will die. But later Adam eats the forbidden fruit (3:6) and yet lives for another 930 years (5:5). 2:17

    As a punishment for killing Abel, God says Cain will be "a fugitive and a vagabond." Yet in just a few verses (4:16-17) Cain will settle down, marry, have a son, and build a city. This is not the activity one would expect from a fugitive and a vagabond. 4:12

    God promises Abram and his descendants all of the land of Canaan. But both history and the bible (Acts 7:5 and Heb.11:13) show that God's promise to Abram was not fulfilled. 13:15, 15:18, 17:8, 28:13-14

    How long was the Egyptian captivity? This verse says 400 years, but Ex.12:40 and Gal.3:17 say 430 years. 15:13

    "In the fourth generation they [Abraham's descendants] shall come hither again." But, if we count Abraham, then their return occurred after seven generations: Abraham, Isaac (Gen.21:1-3), Jacob (Gen.25:19-26), Levi (Gen.35:22-23), Kohath (Ex.6:16), Amramn (Ex.6:18), and Moses (Ex.6:20). 15:16

    God promises Abram's descendants the land of Canaan from the Nile to the Euphrates. But according to Acts 7:5 and Heb.11:13 God's promise to Abram was not fulfilled. 15:18

    God promises to make Isaac's descendents as numerous as "the stars of heaven", which, of course, never happened. The Jews have always been, and will always be, a small minority. 26:4

    God renames Jacob twice (32:28, 35:10 ). God says that Jacob will henceforth be called Israel, but the Bible continues to call him Jacob anyway (47:28-29). And even God himself calls him Jacob in 46:2. 32:28, 35:10

    God calls Jacob Jacob, though he said in Gen.32:28 and 35:10 that he would no longer be called Jacob but Israel. 46:2

    God promises to bring Jacob safely back from Egypt, but Jacob dies in Egypt (Gen.47:28-29) 46:3

    The tribe of Judah will reign "until Shiloh," but Israel's first king (Saul) was from the tribe of Benjamin (Acts 13:21), and most of the time after this prophecy there was no king at all. 49:10

    Contrary to the prophecy in 48:21, Joseph died in Egypt, not Israel. Gen.50:24

    Exodus
    God promises to cast out many nations including the Canaanites and the Jebusites. But he was unable to fulfill his promise. 33:2

    In this verse God says he will write on the stone tablets, but in 34:27 he tells Moses to do the writing. 34:1


    So you see, the bible is not perfect. And just my previous explanation as to how we know life on earth is older than 6,000 years proves that the bible is wrong. So, the bible said the earth was round. The Pagans and Greeks knew this long before the bible was even written.

    You are calling these things contradictions because you lack the understanding of the context. That will always be your problem because you don't really want to know the truth about the bible.

    BUT I will bring out a point that I previosuly brought out that you ignored clearly because I have to bring it out again.

    You just said.. God says that if Adam eats from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, then the day that he does so, he will die. But later Adam eats the forbidden fruit (3:6) and yet lives for another 930 years (5:5). 2:17

    Now in a previous post, I said time to us is not the same relative time to God since he is timeless. God SAID in the day you eat from it you will positively die. Now was that a 24 hr day as we know it, or another time frame? NOW PLEASE, PAY ATTENTION.

    The bible says IN 2ND PETER 3:8.. However, LET THIS ONE FACT NOT BE ESCAPING YOUR NOTICE, beloved ones, THAT ONE DAY IS WITH JEHOVAH AS A THOUSAND YEARS AND A THOUSAND YEARS AS ONE DAY.

    So just as Jehovah promised Adam, that in the DAY he ate from the tree he'd positively die, THAT HAPPENED AS FAR AS GOD WAS CONCERED BECAUSE 1 DAY TO GOD IS AS A THOUSAND YEARS TO US. THAT IS WHY ADAM DIED 930 YEARS LATERS BECAUSE TO GOD, THAT DAY WAS ALMOST OVER FOR ADAM! If Adam had reached 1000, that would have been over what God said he would. Since he was 70 years short of a thousand, then ADAM DIED WITHIN THE SAME DAY TO GOD!

    SO! If you paid attention that time, the bible did not contradict itself there, YOU JUST MISUNDERSTOOD IT BECAUSE YOU ARE BLIND TO TRUTH!

    I could explain everyone of the other so called misconceptions you have, but why bother, you don't read my post's thoroughly enough as is. CLEARLY LOL!

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    You're right. I don't believe in the bible so therefore my knowledge of it and understanding are not as deep as yours.

    You are not a scientist, so your knowledge and understanding of evolution, the big bang theory, carbon dating and other scientific principles are not as deep as mine.

    You have not convinced me that there is a God. I have not convinced you that there is no God.

    All I ask is that you go about your day living the life that brings you the most happiness. But please don't try and change anyone because you think you are right and every non-christian is wrong. That is rude, arrogant and insulting. It's fine that you think you are going to heaven and someone like Ghandi or the Dhali Lama is not. Just don't try and change them. Because they have contributed more good to this planet than most of His followers.

    Just accept people for who they are and try to be a good person. That's how I try to live my life.

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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    You're right. I don't believe in the bible so therefore my knowledge of it and understanding are not as deep as yours.

    You are not a scientist, so your knowledge and understanding of evolution, the big bang theory, carbon dating and other scientific principles are not as deep as mine.

    You have not convinced me that there is a God. I have not convinced you that there is no God.

    All I ask is that you go about your day living the life that brings you the most happiness. But please don't try and change anyone because you think you are right and every non-christian is wrong. That is rude, arrogant and insulting. It's fine that you think you are going to heaven and someone like Ghandi or the Dhali Lama is not. Just don't try and change them. Because they have contributed more good to this planet than most of His followers.

    Just accept people for who they are and try to be a good person. That's how I try to live my life.

    And again, you still ain't paying attention. When did I EVER say I was going to heaven? Let me show you again the promise God made to most of those that serve him.

    Psalms 37:29 The righteous themselves will POSSESS THE EARTH,
    And they will reside FOREVER UPON IT.

    11 But the meek ones themselves will POSSESS THE EARTH,
    And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.


    Isaiah 45:18 For this is what Jehovah has said, the Creator of the heavens, He the [true] God, THE FORMER OF THE EARTH and the Maker of it, He the One who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, WHO FORMED IT EVEN TO BE INHABITED: “I am Jehovah, and there is no one else.


    If you still have not noticed, I have no hope AT ALL of living in heaven. Mankind was not made for that. I do have a hope to live forever on planet earth sometime in the near future according to the bible.


    God said way back in the Garden of Eden to Adam, to procreate, and make the earth a global paradise. He helped Adam get off to a great start. Adam could eat in abundance, never knew sickness, or hardship. God made him lord over all other life form on earth, and even gave him a partner (women are WONDERFUL!) THE ONLY WAY ADAM WOULD POSITIVELY DIE IS IF HE ATE FROM THE TREE OF KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND BAD... So if you use common sense, it will simply tell you that if Adam NEVER ate from that tree, he'd then positively CONTINUE TO LIVE!





    That was God's original plan from Jump street. Mankind to live on earth forever, and enjoy it and never have to suffer for it. ADAM CHOSE to disobey, therefore suffer the consequences. God did not make him do it, he chose. That is no different from a loving parent wanting their child's respect for the nurturing and care they provide. You would not call your parent selfish for wanting what amounts as basic respect, yet you'd call God selfish for wanting in reality the same respect you give you human parents.


    Now even though Adam lost the right for his kids to live as God intended, God IMMEDIATELY put a plan into action to rectify that. How fair would it be to allow Satan, Adam and Eve to permanently ruin for us the blessings God wants to bestow, who did not ask to be here, for their error? And that leads to the theme of the bible which is the glorious good news of the Kingdom of God, which the perfect man Jesus Christ whom you know existed, used every ounce of his being to get across to all who hope in the truth of God.





    Now just for the sake of argument. Bare with me. Let's just say the bible is correct. Let's just go on that preface. Does this not sound like it could be going on with the way the world has been from biblical times to now?


    Look at how the devil operates from the bible. He told Eve God was a liar, and that he was hiding something better from them, than serving him, even though they had seen how lovingly God provided for them and the other animals on the earth. But not only that, notice he attacked Eve who was pretty much new in the Garden, and Not Adam who had walked alone with God for quite some time. Why? Because we all know the young are most vulnerable. And he knew that out of love for Eve, Adam might eat even knowing he was wrong. Don't take a genius to see that. But not only did he attack the weakest vessel, but he was not even big enough to reveal himself.. HE HID BEHIND A MASK BY USING THE SNAKE! like a ventrilaquist basically.


    So if you took that episode in total context, Satan attacks weaknesses, tells lies, and will reveal himself in any way necessary to do so. Now what was Satan's whole point in tricking Eve? It was so she could stop serving God... AND UNINTENTIONALLY BE SERVING HIM! Adam and Eve thought they could be like God, but really they were just choosing to serve another God other than the one who provided for them... Satan. But they never saw it like that.. They just thought that THEY would be like God, falling for the okie doke. Satan did not care how he had to do it, so long as Adam and Eve were mislead away from the truth about God. And unfortunately, he succeeded.



    Now with that in mind, pretend you are Satan for a sec. If your goal is to mislead people and not have them know the truth about God, what would you throw at them?


    Well since you must know about God, why not throw many gods out there? So many religions out there it seems on the surface impossible that there is one true religion... On the surface of course.

    If you can have people worship anything other than God, then you have succeeded, just as he did in the garden. And it does not have to be a deity to be worshiped. And that is what he does. He builds a false hope for each individual that seems assured and reasonable, but is basically like striving for the wind in the end, if it's in opposition to doing God's will.


    Have you ever stopped to think if there is only one God, would there really be more than one way to gain his approval? And should he not have the right as God to choose the ways he wants to be worshiped? If you were God and created all things and they were all good and everything benefited because of you living and creating them, would you want your creations to dictate to you how they will worship you? Could your children run your household when you lovingly provide for them, and tell you how they will obey you? Would that make you egotistical to expect their respect when because of you they are even alive?




    And if this is the last reply I'll say this last thing, I never try to change anyone, I'm not capable. A person has to first want truth, before it can be revealed. I try to open each person up to the one who is capable of revealing truth, and that is Jehovah. I'm born in sin. All truth I know comes from Jehovah because as Jesus said it best about Jehovah John 17: 17 Sanctify them by means of the truth; your word is truth.


    But I also know that just because you know the truth, does not mean the rest of the world will accept it as such. Jesus was killed by the very same people that his father took as a special people for 1500 years. They had the lineage, the scribes , miracles and all sortsa proof that they were God's chosen people. Yet even they turned their backs on him for the most part. Which is why Jesus told them God had abandoned them, because they forgot him. Not the other way around. If they could do it after everything God did for them, I know it's much tougher for people who don't have the luxury they had to accept it nowadays. BUT SOME DO! So I take it a prayer and a day at a time, and let God do the brunt work. I am just a lowly representative trying to fulfill the commision at mathew 28:18-20.

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    turneraddict, i respect all religions man and if you feel your right then so be it im not gonna force you to obey the bible and all that just to check out that site i posted at the start of this thread because it's pretty interesting material. And the reason why i believe the things i do is not because ive been brought up in a christian society it's because ive watched people on tv scholars and many for example...Hal Lindsey, Jr. Church, Rabbi Zacharias, John Ankerberg, Carl Baugh, etc. that talk about the comparison between the bible and the earth we live today and the similarities are so common that i cant find a way to not believe it. And it's hard to understand if you dont believe in it in the first place but if you really get interested in it then more things arise and you begin to notice more and more that secular society doesnt realize..so that's all i have to say about my part. i respect that you strongly believe in something just to maybe one day check out the names i listed and see for yourself if they can suprise you with anything. I named Rabbi Zacahrias i think thats how u spell his name, because he too use to be Muslim and then became a Christian. So incase you ever want to check out how that happened just giving you some info. This thread is done, been arguing too much and i think we all know time will only tell whether one of us is convinced...thanks for the many posts making the hangout section a little more interesting lol.

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    And again, you still ain't paying attention. When did I EVER say I was going to heaven? Let me show you again the promise God made to most of those that serve him.
    I have been paying attention. OK technically you didn't say you were going to heaven. But you did say that only His true followers will receive everlasting paradise. Which means that Ghandi and the Dhali Lama will not receive everlasting paradise.

    Psalms 37:29 The righteous themselves will POSSESS THE EARTH,
    And they will reside FOREVER UPON IT.

    11 But the meek ones themselves will POSSESS THE EARTH,
    And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.
    So which is it? The righteous or the meek that will possess the earth. Will both? Can you only be righteous if you're meek? Can you only be meek if you're righteous?

    If you still have not noticed, I have no hope AT ALL of living in heaven. Mankind was not made for that. I do have a hope to live forever on planet earth sometime in the near future according to the bible.
    You will not live forever. That is impossible. Nothing has lived for ever. We are all slowly dieing. The aging process is proof of that. The gray hairs, wrinkles in the skin, gaining weight and all the other signs of aging are your cells dieng off. And new ones are not rejuvinating as quickly as they did before. So, when you are on your deathbed, and realized you are not going to live forever, remember this discussion.

    God said way back in the Garden of Eden to Adam, to procreate, and make the earth a global paradise. He helped Adam get off to a great start. Adam could eat in abundance, never knew sickness, or hardship. God made him lord over all other life form on earth, and even gave him a partner (women are WONDERFUL!) THE ONLY WAY ADAM WOULD POSITIVELY DIE IS IF HE ATE FROM THE TREE OF KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND BAD... So if you use common sense, it will simply tell you that if Adam NEVER ate from that tree, he'd then positively CONTINUE TO LIVE!
    That's funny, because common sense does not apply here at all. How would Adam procreate? Asexually I presume. Asexual reproduction produces an exact copy of the parent, unless there is genetic mutation. So, evolution could only produce something different than a bunch of Adams. Or would they just pop out of the ground like mole-men? Does he build them out of the earth and then give them life? Then that is technically not procreation.

    That was God's original plan from Jump street. Mankind to live on earth forever, and enjoy it and never have to suffer for it. ADAM CHOSE to disobey, therefore suffer the consequences. God did not make him do it, he chose. That is no different from a loving parent wanting their child's respect for the nurturing and care they provide. You would not call your parent selfish for wanting what amounts as basic respect, yet you'd call God selfish for wanting in reality the same respect you give you human parents.


    Now even though Adam lost the right for his kids to live as God intended, God IMMEDIATELY put a plan into action to rectify that. How fair would it be to allow Satan, Adam and Eve to permanently ruin for us the blessings God wants to bestow, who did not ask to be here, for their error? And that leads to the theme of the bible which is the glorious good news of the Kingdom of God, which the perfect man Jesus Christ whom you know existed, used every ounce of his being to get across to all who hope in the truth of God.





    Now just for the sake of argument. Bare with me. Let's just say the bible is correct. Let's just go on that preface. Does this not sound like it could be going on with the way the world has been from biblical times to now?
    Actually, that does not sound like it could be going on with the way the world has been from biblical times to now. Not at all. But, if the bible is your only source of knowledge than I can understand why you would think that way. Let's just say that the bible is a story told by many people long ago. And that science is actually correct (i.e. universe is 13 billion years old, the earth is 5 billion years old, life on earth is 2 billion years old, humans have been around for 1 million years, life has been competing since it arose = species that once existed are extinct now and species that exist now did not exist years ago) then doesn't that sound like how the world really is?


    Look at how the devil operates from the bible. He told Eve God was a liar, and that he was hiding something better from them, than serving him, even though they had seen how lovingly God provided for them and the other animals on the earth. But not only that, notice he attacked Eve who was pretty much new in the Garden, and Not Adam who had walked alone with God for quite some time. Why? Because we all know the young are most vulnerable. And he knew that out of love for Eve, Adam might eat even knowing he was wrong. Don't take a genius to see that. But not only did he attack the weakest vessel, but he was not even big enough to reveal himself.. HE HID BEHIND A MASK BY USING THE SNAKE! like a ventrilaquist basically.


    So if you took that episode in total context, Satan attacks weaknesses, tells lies, and will reveal himself in any way necessary to do so. Now what was Satan's whole point in tricking Eve? It was so she could stop serving God... AND UNINTENTIONALLY BE SERVING HIM! Adam and Eve thought they could be like God, but really they were just choosing to serve another God other than the one who provided for them... Satan. But they never saw it like that.. They just thought that THEY would be like God, falling for the okie doke. Satan did not care how he had to do it, so long as Adam and Eve were mislead away from the truth about God. And unfortunately, he succeeded.



    Now with that in mind, pretend you are Satan for a sec. If your goal is to mislead people and not have them know the truth about God, what would you throw at them?


    Well since you must know about God, why not throw many gods out there? So many religions out there it seems on the surface impossible that there is one true religion... On the surface of course.

    If you can have people worship anything other than God, then you have succeeded, just as he did in the garden. And it does not have to be a deity to be worshiped. And that is what he does. He builds a false hope for each individual that seems assured and reasonable, but is basically like striving for the wind in the end, if it's in opposition to doing God's will.


    Have you ever stopped to think if there is only one God, would there really be more than one way to gain his approval? And should he not have the right as God to choose the ways he wants to be worshiped? If you were God and created all things and they were all good and everything benefited because of you living and creating them, would you want your creations to dictate to you how they will worship you? Could your children run your household when you lovingly provide for them, and tell you how they will obey you? Would that make you egotistical to expect their respect when because of you they are even alive?




    And if this is the last reply I'll say this last thing, I never try to change anyone, I'm not capable. A person has to first want truth, before it can be revealed. I try to open each person up to the one who is capable of revealing truth, and that is Jehovah. I'm born in sin. All truth I know comes from Jehovah because as Jesus said it best about Jehovah John 17: 17 Sanctify them by means of the truth; your word is truth.
    This statement is the only reason why I have replied to your post. If you are the type of person that knocks on strangers doors and tells them about the bible, or goes up to complete strangers and tells them about the bible, then technically you are trying to change someone's beliefs because you think you are right and they are wrong. You may call it "revealing the truth to people", but that is still very arrogant to assume you are right and they are wrong. Isn't it also in the bible to "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"? would you want a Hindu coming up to you and telling you that your're wrong?

    Please tell me you are not doing that. (And please, no more bible quotes. I can't stand any more bible quotes. A simple yes or no will do.)
    Last edited by LJ4ptplay; Jul 02, 2008 at 12:12.

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    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    turneraddict, i respect all religions man and if you feel your right then so be it im not gonna force you to obey the bible and all that just to check out that site i posted at the start of this thread because it's pretty interesting material. And the reason why i believe the things i do is not because ive been brought up in a christian society it's because ive watched people on tv scholars and many for example...Hal Lindsey, Jr. Church, Rabbi Zacharias, John Ankerberg, Carl Baugh, etc. that talk about the comparison between the bible and the earth we live today and the similarities are so common that i cant find a way to not believe it. And it's hard to understand if you dont believe in it in the first place but if you really get interested in it then more things arise and you begin to notice more and more that secular society doesnt realize..so that's all i have to say about my part. i respect that you strongly believe in something just to maybe one day check out the names i listed and see for yourself if they can suprise you with anything. I named Rabbi Zacahrias i think thats how u spell his name, because he too use to be Muslim and then became a Christian. So incase you ever want to check out how that happened just giving you some info. This thread is done, been arguing too much and i think we all know time will only tell whether one of us is convinced...thanks for the many posts making the hangout section a little more interesting lol.
    I'm glad you respect all religions and beliefs. You are a good person for doing that. If you want to live the life as a christian, then by all means, go right ahead. I have no problems with you being a chistian, muslim, jew, buddist, hindu, etc., etc. Just don't try and change someones beliefs because you think you are right and they are wrong.

    If christianity brings good in your life and the bible provides you answers then that is a good thing.

    The bible makes logical sense to you. I was rasied in a religious family and brought up catholic. I've read the bible. But science has opened my eyes to the world, and for me science (evolution, astronomy, genetics) makes the most logical sense to me. We both deeply believe. We both have answers for the universe. Let us respect each other's beliefs and let each human live their own lives. We'll find out when we're dead.

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    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    turneraddict, i respect all religions man and if you feel your right then so be it im not gonna force you to obey the bible and all that just to check out that site i posted at the start of this thread because it's pretty interesting material. And the reason why i believe the things i do is not because ive been brought up in a christian society it's because ive watched people on tv scholars and many for example...Hal Lindsey, Jr. Church, Rabbi Zacharias, John Ankerberg, Carl Baugh, etc. that talk about the comparison between the bible and the earth we live today and the similarities are so common that i cant find a way to not believe it. And it's hard to understand if you dont believe in it in the first place but if you really get interested in it then more things arise and you begin to notice more and more that secular society doesnt realize..so that's all i have to say about my part. i respect that you strongly believe in something just to maybe one day check out the names i listed and see for yourself if they can suprise you with anything. I named Rabbi Zacahrias i think thats how u spell his name, because he too use to be Muslim and then became a Christian. So incase you ever want to check out how that happened just giving you some info. This thread is done, been arguing too much and i think we all know time will only tell whether one of us is convinced...thanks for the many posts making the hangout section a little more interesting lol.
    I was raised Catholic since my birth, hell, I was even confirmed. Although, early on I noticed that the things they were teaching me were bull****.

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