The Bible - Proof that Christianity is True

metrocard

Legend
I grew up Roman Catholic, got baptized, did my communion, served the church as a alter server...all that nice and dandy shit.

But growing up, I never really felt the internal need to go to God for assistance and guidance. I found it more fufiling just being independent and making my own decisions and learning from them.

I feel a lot of the stuff with the church is FLAWED and OUTDATED for our own, especially in a capitalistic society controlled by tyranny of exploiters.

Religion's main purpose is to gain power; throughout its history it has sugarcoated everything just to force plagiarism morals on more an more people till the religion blows up in high numbers.

I normally don't talk about religion because its irrelevant in my life. But I pretty much share George Carlin's view on religion.

 
I grew up Roman Catholic, got baptized, did my communion, served the church as a alter server...all that nice and dandy shit.

But growing up, I never really felt the internal need to go to God for assistance and guidance. I found it more fufiling just being independent and making my own decisions and learning from them.

I feel a lot of the stuff with the church is FLAWED and OUTDATED for our own, especially in a capitalistic society controlled by tyranny of exploiters.

Religion's main purpose is to gain power; throughout its history it has sugarcoated everything just to force plagiarism morals on more an more people till the religion blows up in high numbers.

I normally don't talk about religion because its irrelevant in my life. But I pretty much share George Carlin's view on religion.


A lotta people I meet share a lot of your views. Especially with they way religion has been carrying on in all forms the past 90 years or so.

But whats the flawed and outdated part?
 

Akamu

The King
I grew up Roman Catholic, got baptized, did my communion, served the church as a alter server...all that nice and dandy shit.

But growing up, I never really felt the internal need to go to God for assistance and guidance. I found it more fufiling just being independent and making my own decisions and learning from them.

I feel a lot of the stuff with the church is FLAWED and OUTDATED for our own, especially in a capitalistic society controlled by tyranny of exploiters.

Religion's main purpose is to gain power; throughout its history it has sugarcoated everything just to force plagiarism morals on more an more people till the religion blows up in high numbers.

I normally don't talk about religion because its irrelevant in my life. But I pretty much share George Carlin's view on religion.

That Catholic religion is putting a lot of doubt in peoples minds, I feel sorry for people who follow this without really noticing what's really going on with it.

I saw that video with that weird motha f**ka rofl, "I come in the name of Jesus... repeat it after me b!tch, I come in the name of Jesus!"
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
Sir read your bible, Paul told Timothy to study to show thyself approved. Read Romans 1:22 "Professing to be wise, they became fools." Go back two versus to Romans 1:20 "You will be without excuse when you finally meet Jesus."..................I'll pray for you.

So, you are calling me a fool. Again, this is just part of being a Christian. Rude and arrogant. Who's the fool? Believing in an invisible man, believing that 2 people (Adam & Eve) started humans, the world is 6,000 years old, Noah fit over 3 million pairs of animals on a boat, another invisible man is trying to convince you the other invisible man does not exist, yet one invisible man has power over everything but can't seem to get rid of the other invisible man and can't convince millions of people he exists, the invisible man loves you but will punish you for not worshipping him. Go ahead and pray for me, it doesn't do any good because there is no invisible man listening to you.

The whole Adam and Eve story and Noah story is just ridiculous. And if you actually believe those stories, then you are a fool. As Knicks4life stated, Adam and Eve created all mankind, without asexual reproduction. That means they had sex. And produced children. Then in order to keep the species going, either their children had sex with each other, or Adam and Eve had sex with their children. 1.) That's a lot of incest, and just disgusting 2.) It is virtualy genetically impossible to keep a species going with only 2 individuals in a sexually reproductive population. It's called a genetic bottleneck. Interbreeding two families causes severe retardation, mutation and infertility. This happens to isolated human populations even when there are more then two families. The problem increases with severity the more the inbreeding occurs. We are seeing evidence of this in the Amish populations today whose children are disproportionately afflicted by rare and sometimes fatal genetic-based diseases because of 200 years of inbreeding. This same theory applies to Noah and only bringing 2 of every species on the boat.

But, in order for someone to actually believe these stories, they must ignore scientific knowledge. Oh wait, the other invisible man is making scientists discover these things. Now that is being foolish.
 
So, you are calling me a fool. Again, this is just part of being a Christian. Rude and arrogant. Who's the fool? Believing in an invisible man, believing that 2 people (Adam & Eve) started humans, the world is 6,000 years old, Noah fit over 3 million pairs of animals on a boat, another invisible man is trying to convince you the other invisible man does not exist, yet one invisible man has power over everything but can't seem to get rid of the other invisible man and can't convince millions of people he exists, the invisible man loves you but will punish you for not worshipping him. Go ahead and pray for me, it doesn't do any good because there is no invisible man listening to you.

I know you were not pertaining to me per say in the post but just a brief run down of what I actually said vs what you believe.

I never said the earth is 6 k years old. In fact it's probably in all likely hood much, much, much older. Since the bible said God made the heavens and the earth in the begining. That meant that he made the universe AND the earth before he put life on earth, as evidenced in him taking a few thousand years to even set th eearth up to inhabit life on it in Genesis. What I said was that from the time of Adam sinning, til now the span has been well over 6 k years. How long Adam and Eve were on earth together before sin is irrelevant because the story needed to be told on what happened then, so we know how we got where we are. The same way God just says we will die, but does not exactly lay out why it is we get old first. We just know we do.

It is totally possible that life can come from 1 man and one woman, surely if a being can make planets and put life on them, he can make sure that life reproduces enough to then sustain itself outside the first set of parents. In fact, not all forms of family breeding have suffered abnormalities even in our era, even though there is a higher chance of it as you have stated already. But the fact that there are exceptions should tell you it is possible, if not totally plausible to your comprehension.

Who said Noah put millions of animals in the ark? It does not say how many. It just says two of each. Does that mean that God stopped creating animals from that point on?

And God and Satan are not invisible men at all. They are spirit beings. Very powerful indeed. However, if you read the bible, you would know that God deemed the devil for dead immediately after he tricked Adam and Eve. It just has not happened yet. Same principle applies for Satan and his demons as it did for Adam. God let Adam live 930 years to populate the earth as he wanted, then he died. God has allowed Satan time to prove he can run the earth better than he can, and his time is just about up. He has had almost 7 thousand years to try and prove it. Once his time is up he and all who follow him will be destroyed, because they will have constituted themselves as enemies of God and his ways. And rightfully so when God has given everyone a chance to know the issue and they simply choose to take it on or ignore it.

So God is really punishing you for choosing to side with his enemy. And his enemy stands in the way of the righteous way of living. And those who follow his enemy are essentially doing the same thing.

The whole Adam and Eve story and Noah story is just ridiculous. And if you actually believe those stories, then you are a fool. As Knicks4life stated, Adam and Eve created all mankind, without asexual reproduction. That means they had sex. And produced children. Then in order to keep the species going, either their children had sex with each other, or Adam and Eve had sex with their children. 1.) That's a lot of incest, and just disgusting 2.) It is virtualy genetically impossible to keep a species going with only 2 individuals in a sexually reproductive population. It's called a genetic bottleneck. Interbreeding two families causes severe retardation, mutation and infertility. This happens to isolated human populations even when there are more then two families. The problem increases with severity the more the inbreeding occurs. We are seeing evidence of this in the Amish populations today whose children are disproportionately afflicted by rare and sometimes fatal genetic-based diseases because of 200 years of inbreeding. This same theory applies to Noah and only bringing 2 of every species on the boat.

But, in order for someone to actually believe these stories, they must ignore scientific knowledge. Oh wait, the other invisible man is making scientists discover these things. Now that is being foolish.

You are not a fool, I am not, no one here is. Just tempers sometimes flare when beliefs are discussed.

But you however say you believe that Jesus existed. So then that means the things that he did must have happened as well. Jesus lineage leads him back to being Adam's offspring in Luke. And he even spoke about the original Edenic marriage arrangement as if he knew it actually happened, when the pharasees asked him about divorce.

So here is my question. How could you believe that Jesus lived, and Jesus attests to Adam and Eve living, and his lineage leads back to them through Mary, yet you say they never existed? I really don't get how Jesus could be traced back to Adam and you say for a fact he lived, yet Adam did not?

And again, science has been overall a blessing. In fact, Jehovah is a scientist. But the problem comes in when science tries to disprove a maker, when everything about science shows predominently evidence of intelligent creation and design.
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
I never said the earth is 6 k years old. In fact it's probably in all likely hood much, much, much older. Since the bible said God made the heavens and the earth in the begining. That meant that he made the universe AND the earth before he put life on earth, as evidenced in him taking a few thousand years to even set th eearth up to inhabit life on it in Genesis. What I said was that from the time of Adam sinning, til now the span has been well over 6 k years. How long Adam and Eve were on earth together before sin is irrelevant because the story needed to be told on what happened then, so we know how we got where we are. The same way God just says we will die, but does not exactly lay out why it is we get old first. We just know we do.

You're splitting hairs here. My point is that life has existed long before the bible says. Dinosaurs existed around 150 million years ago. Neaderthal man existed around 250,000 years ago. The first life, single-celled organisms existed around 3 billion years ago. But you ignore these facts and claim that scientists just make this stuff up in their heads. Even though I've proven to you how they do it through rigorous testing. I've already proven to you why we die as well. But you've ignored these facts as well. You even claimed that scientists have proved that we can live forever, yet they don't know why we die. A completely false statement. Who's making stuff up in their heads here?

It is totally possible that life can come from 1 man and one woman, surely if a being can make planets and put life on them, he can make sure that life reproduces enough to then sustain itself outside the first set of parents. In fact, not all forms of family breeding have suffered abnormalities even in our era, even though there is a higher chance of it as you have stated already. But the fact that there are exceptions should tell you it is possible, if not totally plausible to your comprehension.

Give me one example, a real example not a made up one from the bible, where two individuals of any species have been able to sustain a viable population without suffering serious genetic diseases. And Adam and Eve is not an answer. Because they did not exist. Besides, in that story, there still had to be inbreeding. So Adam and Eve had sex with their children, and their children had sex with each other. That's just gross man. What a religion!

And God and Satan are not invisible men at all. They are spirit beings. Very powerful indeed. However, if you read the bible, you would know that God deemed the devil for dead immediately after he tricked Adam and Eve. It just has not happened yet. Same principle applies for Satan and his demons as it did for Adam. God let Adam live 930 years to populate the earth as he wanted, then he died. God has allowed Satan time to prove he can run the earth better than he can, and his time is just about up. He has had almost 7 thousand years to try and prove it. Once his time is up he and all who follow him will be destroyed, because they will have constituted themselves as enemies of God and his ways. And rightfully so when God has given everyone a chance to know the issue and they simply choose to take it on or ignore it.

Spirits, invisible beings, same difference. They don't exist.

But you however say you believe that Jesus existed. So then that means the things that he did must have happened as well. Jesus lineage leads him back to being Adam's offspring in Luke. And he even spoke about the original Edenic marriage arrangement as if he knew it actually happened, when the pharasees asked him about divorce.

So here is my question. How could you believe that Jesus lived, and Jesus attests to Adam and Eve living, and his lineage leads back to them through Mary, yet you say they never existed? I really don't get how Jesus could be traced back to Adam and you say for a fact he lived, yet Adam did not?

And again, science has been overall a blessing. In fact, Jehovah is a scientist. But the problem comes in when science tries to disprove a maker, when everything about science shows predominently evidence of intelligent creation and design.

Yes, I believe Jesus existed. But that doesn't mean he did the things the bible says he did. As far as I know, he was a very influential man. Like I said before, people thought David Koresh was the son of God and that he performed miracles. If someone can convince many people in modern times, a person like David Koresh would have a field day with people in ancient times.

You like science when it gives you good things, but dislike it when it disproves your religion to be true. Even though the same principles are applied. I've said this before. Science does not have a motive to disprove your religion. The facts just do. Religion has a motive to disprove the facts that science figures out. The purpose of science is to gain knowledge and discover the truth in order to benefit mankind. Your religion just happens to stand in the way.
 
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Paul1355

All Star
For LJ4ptplay

So, you are calling me a fool. Again, this is just part of being a Christian. Rude and arrogant. Who's the fool? Believing in an invisible man, believing that 2 people (Adam & Eve) started humans, the world is 6,000 years old, Noah fit over 3 million pairs of animals on a boat, another invisible man is trying to convince you the other invisible man does not exist, yet one invisible man has power over everything but can't seem to get rid of the other invisible man and can't convince millions of people he exists, the invisible man loves you but will punish you for not worshipping him. Go ahead and pray for me, it doesn't do any good because there is no invisible man listening to you.

The whole Adam and Eve story and Noah story is just ridiculous. And if you actually believe those stories, then you are a fool. As Knicks4life stated, Adam and Eve created all mankind, without asexual reproduction. That means they had sex. And produced children. Then in order to keep the species going, either their children had sex with each other, or Adam and Eve had sex with their children. 1.) That's a lot of incest, and just disgusting 2.) It is virtualy genetically impossible to keep a species going with only 2 individuals in a sexually reproductive population. It's called a genetic bottleneck. Interbreeding two families causes severe retardation, mutation and infertility. This happens to isolated human populations even when there are more then two families. The problem increases with severity the more the inbreeding occurs. We are seeing evidence of this in the Amish populations today whose children are disproportionately afflicted by rare and sometimes fatal genetic-based diseases because of 200 years of inbreeding. This same theory applies to Noah and only bringing 2 of every species on the boat.

But, in order for someone to actually believe these stories, they must ignore scientific knowledge. Oh wait, the other invisible man is making scientists discover these things. Now that is being foolish.

Friend, I already gave you versus from God's word. Apparently you did not read them, so I repeat to study them, meditate on them, and take it up with the Lord Jesus. Read Romans Chapter 1..verse 19 to 23. Buy a Bible commentary and study what the Bible has to say. And while your at it read Proverbs chapter 14 verse 12. End of discussion.
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
Friend, I already gave you versus from God's word. Apparently you did not read them, so I repeat to study them, meditate on them, and take it up with the Lord Jesus. Read Romans Chapter 1..verse 19 to 23. Buy a Bible commentary and study what the Bible has to say. And while your at it read Proverbs chapter 14 verse 12. End of discussion.

Romans Chapter 1 verse 19 to 23
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.



Proverbs Chapter 14 verse 12
There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.


Got it. Thanks.
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
In the early 1500's, Nostradamus' made this prediction:

"In the year of the new century and nine months, From the sky will come a great King of Terror... The sky will burn at forty-five degrees. Fire approaches the great new city..."

"In the city of York there will be a great collapse, 2 twin brothers torn apart by chaos While the fortress falls the great leader will succumb Third big war will begin when the big city is burning"
 
You're splitting hairs here. My point is that life has existed long before the bible says. Dinosaurs existed around 150 million years ago. Neaderthal man existed around 250,000 years ago. The first life, single-celled organisms existed around 3 billion years ago. But you ignore these facts and claim that scientists just make this stuff up in their heads. Even though I've proven to you how they do it through rigorous testing. I've already proven to you why we die as well. But you've ignored these facts as well. You even claimed that scientists have proved that we can live forever, yet they don't know why we die. A completely false statement. Who's making stuff up in their heads here?

How can you prove that neanderthals existed? You seen one? Anyone ever have? So mankind went from dumb to smart? How did women evolve? Hmm. How do you know that single cell organisms existed? If that is a fact, then how come every neanderthal or apeman ever shown in an meuseum is said to be imaginatory based on the individuals taste? Why don't all scientists agree with that theory? What makes the Scientist who believe in intelligent design, differ from those who don't? They examine the same things , correct? WHAT FACTS DO SCIENTIST HAVE THAT NEANDERTHALS EXISTED? THEY HAVE NONE. THEORY.

I said they have proven that humans SHOULD be capable of living forever, if not for the fact that we get old and die. They don't know why we age to the point of death. These things that regenerate with ease during youth stop all the sudden after a time. A mystery to them. Why? They can tell us about neanderthals 250,000 years ago.

And after all their rigorous testing, they still cannot say for a fact how even the earth was here. Theory.



Give me one example, a real example not a made up one from the bible, where two individuals of any species have been able to sustain a viable population without suffering serious genetic diseases. And Adam and Eve is not an answer. Because they did not exist. Besides, in that story, there still had to be inbreeding. So Adam and Eve had sex with their children, and their children had sex with each other. That's just gross man. What a religion!

Adam made many children with Eve, how many who knows. Adam surely did not sleep with his children. Silly. You beleieve Jesus existed WHOSE LINEAGE IS FROM ADAM, but ADAM did not exist? That makes sense.



Spirits, invisible beings, same difference. They don't exist.
There is actually more evidence that they do exist, than neanderthals lol.



Yes, I believe Jesus existed. But that doesn't mean he did the things the bible says he did. As far as I know, he was a very influential man. Like I said before, people thought David Koresh was the son of God and that he performed miracles. If someone can convince many people in modern times, a person like David Koresh would have a field day with people in ancient times.


So the only place that we can find out about Jesus is the bible that you don't believe in, but you believe Jesus existed, from a fictional book? Ok.

Are we really comparing the son of God to a deranged psycho-rapist-mass murderer? Did Jesus force anyone to follow him? Did Jesus followers have spears and swords going down to kill those apprehending him?

Wow...


You like science when it gives you good things, but dislike it when it disproves your religion to be true. Even though the same principles are applied. I've said this before. Science does not have a motive to disprove your religion. The facts just do. Religion has a motive to disprove the facts that science figures out. The purpose of science is to gain knowledge and discover the truth in order to benefit mankind. Your religion just happens to stand in the way.

Science can never prove the bible wrong. Can't ever happen. The bible has facts about the earth long before science knew for sure they were facts. I know, I know.. a magical merchant. Yea, that guy guessed and it became fact.

And if science is supposed to benefit mankind so much, how come science can't heal people permanently? Or stop death? Where is the damn cancer vaccine already? IT'S BEEN AGES THAT MONSTER BEEN AROUND! Science gets donated BILLIONS of dollars a year and Cancer still around! They are just now within the past 30-40 years starting to realize the earth is being ruined! Science is also somewhat responsible for NUCLEAR WARFARE! Where are the lasting benefits of human science? THERE ARE NONE! Yet a man in sandals and a dress walked on water, healed the sick and fed the poor with 2 fish and three loaves of bread. A man you believe exist, and his story is only in one place, but you don't believe the story, or that Adam was his parent, but you believe he existed. People just decided to make this man a deity to control the masses.

And men were running around hairy and dumb clubbing eachother 250,000 years back , and now look, they can save the world through science! :thumbsup:
 

TunerAddict

Starter
How can you prove that neanderthals existed? You seen one? Anyone ever have? So mankind went from dumb to smart? How did women evolve? Hmm. How do you know that single cell organisms existed? If that is a fact, then how come every neanderthal or apeman ever shown in an meuseum is said to be imaginatory based on the individuals taste? Why don't all scientists agree with that theory? What makes the Scientist who believe in intelligent design, differ from those who don't? They examine the same things , correct? WHAT FACTS DO SCIENTIST HAVE THAT NEANDERTHALS EXISTED? THEY HAVE NONE. THEORY.

I said they have proven that humans SHOULD be capable of living forever, if not for the fact that we get old and die. They don't know why we age to the point of death. These things that regenerate with ease during youth stop all the sudden after a time. A mystery to them. Why? They can tell us about neanderthals 250,000 years ago.

And after all their rigorous testing, they still cannot say for a fact how even the earth was here. Theory.





Adam made many children with Eve, how many who knows. Adam surely did not sleep with his children. Silly. You beleieve Jesus existed WHOSE LINEAGE IS FROM ADAM, but ADAM did not exist? That makes sense.



There is actually more evidence that they do exist, than neanderthals lol.






So the only place that we can find out about Jesus is the bible that you don't believe in, but you believe Jesus existed, from a fictional book? Ok.

Are we really comparing the son of God to a deranged psycho-rapist-mass murderer? Did Jesus force anyone to follow him? Did Jesus followers have spears and swords going down to kill those apprehending him?

Wow...




Science can never prove the bible wrong. Can't ever happen. The bible has facts about the earth long before science knew for sure they were facts. I know, I know.. a magical merchant. Yea, that guy guessed and it became fact.

And if science is supposed to benefit mankind so much, how come science can't heal people permanently? Or stop death? Where is the damn cancer vaccine already? IT'S BEEN AGES THAT MONSTER BEEN AROUND! Science gets donated BILLIONS of dollars a year and Cancer still around! They are just now within the past 30-40 years starting to realize the earth is being ruined! Science is also somewhat responsible for NUCLEAR WARFARE! Where are the lasting benefits of human science? THERE ARE NONE! Yet a man in sandals and a dress walked on water, healed the sick and fed the poor with 2 fish and three loaves of bread. A man you believe exist, and his story is only in one place, but you don't believe the story, or that Adam was his parent, but you believe he existed. People just decided to make this man a deity to control the masses.

And men were running around hairy and dumb clubbing eachother 250,000 years back , and now look, they can save the world through science! :thumbsup:

Lol. Cancer is still around because it is too profitable to cure it. Way too many meds for those that have cancer, why should the medical industry throw away a renewable goldmine?
 
Lol. Cancer is still around because it is too profitable to cure it. Way too many meds for those that have cancer, why should the medical industry throw away a renewable goldmine?

Is what you just said a fact? Or is it a theory? Because the scientist's who test it rigorously everyday will say differently.

And if that's the case, than Science is indeed not about the TRUE benefit of mankind. It is about money.

The invisible man up there is not about money. He is about the benefit of mankind.
 

pat

Starter
That makes you not worth debating with. If you are truly that ignorant, you are beyond hope. The planet and mankind are far older than 6k years. You are nothing but church propaganda. You cannot be taken seriously because you only regurgitate the things that you were taught without looking for your own answers. You, sir, are a sheep.

And I do respect you for having such strong beliefs and convictions, but its hard for me to understand how one can deny such overwhelming scientific evidence as to the age of the earth and mankind.

True that. The only way the old testament is acceptable in the light of scientific findings is as a myth (and I don't mean that disrespectfully). Even among reasonable and intelligent theologians it is generally accepted that the bible is not verbally inspired by God (not even the New Testament). If it were, how come that the gospels contradict each other?

Give me one example, a real example not a made up one from the bible, where two individuals of any species have been able to sustain a viable population without suffering serious genetic diseases. And Adam and Eve is not an answer. Because they did not exist. Besides, in that story, there still had to be inbreeding. So Adam and Eve had sex with their children, and their children had sex with each other. That's just gross man. What a religion!

That is the main problem of this discussion. Understanding the old testament as a mythological explanation of life on earth solves the either/or problem. It is possible to understand Gen. as a mythological explanation of evolution. The same can be said for the deluge. There is considerable archaeological evidence that there was a severe flood that would correspond roughly with the time at which Genesis was written. Make it a few hundred years before it was actually written down and you have plenty of time to make a disaster a myth. Considering myself an agnostic I am not sure yet whether this makes Christianity a respectable religion for me. But what I can definitely say for myself is that this is the only way Christianity is thinkable for me because it gives me the chance to respect other religious explanations as equally plausible but not as apart of my cultural heritage.

And for those of you who are interested, you should read the Ancient Epic of Gilgamesh which was written in cuneiform writing and pre-dates the Old Testament. You will be astonished to which degree the deluge and a story in there resemble each other.
 
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LJ4ptplay

Starter
How can you prove that neanderthals existed? You seen one? Anyone ever have? So mankind went from dumb to smart? How did women evolve? Hmm. How do you know that single cell organisms existed? If that is a fact, then how come every neanderthal or apeman ever shown in an meuseum is said to be imaginatory based on the individuals taste? Why don't all scientists agree with that theory? What makes the Scientist who believe in intelligent design, differ from those who don't? They examine the same things , correct? WHAT FACTS DO SCIENTIST HAVE THAT NEANDERTHALS EXISTED? THEY HAVE NONE. THEORY.

I said they have proven that humans SHOULD be capable of living forever, if not for the fact that we get old and die. They don't know why we age to the point of death. These things that regenerate with ease during youth stop all the sudden after a time. A mystery to them. Why? They can tell us about neanderthals 250,000 years ago.

And after all their rigorous testing, they still cannot say for a fact how even the earth was here. Theory.

You need to stop making things up and claiming scientists just make stuff up in their heads. Your lack of knowledge of the natural world is truly astounding. Were you home schooled? Or did you make a serious conscious effort to ignore facts.

We have many complete skelatal Neanderthal Man fossil remains that were dated by carbon dating. They first existed around 250,000 years ago and eventually became extinct around 50,000 years ago.

Neanderthal Man skull:
Neanderthal.jpg


An image drawn by Neanderthal Man. Found in a cave where the remains of Neanderthal Man were found:
cavecow.jpg


The oldest fossils we have are of Stromatolites. They have a similar structure as blue-green algae (i.e., cyanobacteria). These fossils are dated to be 3.5 billion years old.
DS572f.jpg


These are facts that Neanderthal Man existed.

DNA researcher Svante Pääbo has tested more than 70 Neanderthal specimens and found that humans and Neanderthal Man share about 99.5% of their DNA. And though they shared much of the same DNA, the sequencing of mitochondrial DNA is very different, proving their was a humanoid creature different from modern humans that had language, buried their dead, created artwork and tools and had many other human like behaviors. You must not have watched the video I posted earlier. Here it is again:


Continue to ignore the facts or believing an evil invisible man is making scientists discover these things if it makes you feel better. I prefer to know the truth. But the fact is, scientists DO NOT MAKE THIS UP IN THEIR HEADS!!

Adam made many children with Eve, how many who knows. Adam surely did not sleep with his children. Silly. You beleieve Jesus existed WHOSE LINEAGE IS FROM ADAM, but ADAM did not exist? That makes sense.

So Adam and Eve's children just slept with each other. That is still incest and disgusting. You still have not given me an example of two individuals of a species able to sustain a viable population through sexual reproduction without suffering serious genetic diseases.

There is actually more evidence that they do exist, than neanderthals lol.

Wow! Of all the crazy things you've posted in this discussion this one just made my jaw drop. See above facts and examples of neanderthals. But I'm sure you'll ignore those and come up with some other crazy claim that they must have made it up.

So the only place that we can find out about Jesus is the bible that you don't believe in, but you believe Jesus existed, from a fictional book? Ok.

Are we really comparing the son of God to a deranged psycho-rapist-mass murderer? Did Jesus force anyone to follow him? Did Jesus followers have spears and swords going down to kill those apprehending him?

Wow...

The bible is not the only source for information about the life of Jesus and I did not say Jesus was a rapist and murderer. The point was to show you how people can be influenced by other people. How they can think he performed miracles as did the followers of Koresh. And I've already shown you how the stories of Jesus were taken from religions developed before Christianity. Example: Dionisis, the son of god, born of a mortal virgin woman, turning water into wine, curing people, etc. Come to think of it, maybe Jesus never existed. I'm not convinced now.

Science can never prove the bible wrong. Can't ever happen. The bible has facts about the earth long before science knew for sure they were facts. I know, I know.. a magical merchant. Yea, that guy guessed and it became fact.

Well, I've already proven the bible wrong multiple times but you've chosen to ignore these facts or come upi with crazy excuses that scientists just make this stuff up.

You kept bringing up my merchant example. Forgive me, I had to pull that from memory of a book I read almost 4 years ago. But since you are so adamant about the bible saying the earth was round before anybody else knew about it, his name was Aritostonese. And I misquoted, he was a scientist, not a merchant. He lived in the ancient city of Alexandria. He discovered the earth was round by observing shadows at the same time of day in two cities, several miles apart. A pole in one city did not cast a shadow at noon, while a pole of equal length in Alexandria did cast a shadow. How could that be if the earth was flat? He also calculated the circumference of the earth by measuring the length of the shadows and pacing the distance between the two cities. Amazingly, he was very accurate, about 97% accurate.

And if science is supposed to benefit mankind so much, how come science can't heal people permanently? Or stop death? Where is the damn cancer vaccine already? IT'S BEEN AGES THAT MONSTER BEEN AROUND! Science gets donated BILLIONS of dollars a year and Cancer still around! They are just now within the past 30-40 years starting to realize the earth is being ruined! Science is also somewhat responsible for NUCLEAR WARFARE! Where are the lasting benefits of human science? THERE ARE NONE! Yet a man in sandals and a dress walked on water, healed the sick and fed the poor with 2 fish and three loaves of bread. A man you believe exist, and his story is only in one place, but you don't believe the story, or that Adam was his parent, but you believe he existed. People just decided to make this man a deity to control the masses.

And men were running around hairy and dumb clubbing eachother 250,000 years back , and now look, they can save the world through science!

I do not claim science to be perfect. You claim the bible to be perfect. Science has a goal of understanding the universe. That doesn't exclude the possibility of a bad person using science to do bad things. And while you bring up examples of bad things as the result of scientific discovery, do I really need to bring up all the examples of bad things done as a result of religion? Religion has caused more death and violence than anything else.
 
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Paul1355

All Star
Secular Historians

Everyone is still arguing to a point of no end. The point of this thread was to get the idea of each person which i clearly got and their view which i got plenty of times...but yet i think only one person actually looked at the site and read it...heres one part of the site from Secular Historians that made them believe Jesus was the Messiah written from an outside source and not from the Bible....
The Proof of Historians

Secular history supports the Bible. For example, in The Antiquities of the Jews, book 18, chapter 3, paragraph 3 the famous historian Flavius Josephus writes:
?Now, there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works?a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.?​
In 115 AD, P. Cornelius Tacitus wrote the following passage that refers to Jesus (called ?Christus,? which means ?The Messiah?) in book 15, chapter 44 of The Annals:
?Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired.?​
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
There it is. I forgot about that one. I knew Jesus existed from other sources outside of the bible. Thank you.
 

Paul1355

All Star
There it is. I forgot about that one. I knew Jesus existed from other sources outside of the bible. Thank you.

Your sarcasm and response prove you did not understand or even read the text. Both passages talk about Jesus in existence referring Him as The Messiah.
 
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