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Thread: International Players More Hype than Hope

  1. #16
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    Originally Posted by TunerAddict
    I don't think Morrison is a bust, he has only played his rookie season. He missed the entire sophomore campaign.
    He's a bust.
    Terrible at defense.
    Not even a good shooter in the NBA, he shoots as bad as Duhon.

    The ****ing guy shoots 37% FG and 33% 3pt and 71% FT

    What is he GOOD at? He was awful anytime he played. His game isn't built for the NBA.

    11 points in 30 minutes too...dude is just terrible at everything he does. He has no real strengths.

  2. #17
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    You can't be a bust after one season. ****, its still too early to see if Darko is a bust, the guy is younger then LeBron.

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    Originally Posted by TunerAddict
    You can't be a bust after one season. ****, its still too early to see if Darko is a bust, the guy is younger then LeBron.
    Morrison has no potential to live up to the hype of where he was picked.
    Same with Darko.

    Darko is an elite shot blocker, but he's an ******* who doesn't work hard and has a history of not playing hard in practice with poor ethic, he won't get any better.

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    So what do you think the spurs chances are without Duncan? Get real Ginobili is a good player, but he's the beneficiary of Tim Duncan's absolute greatness. Duncan is the only spur, besides Robinson, that will be heading to Springfield.

    Stojacovic - Folds in the playoffs after great players get him somewhere (Chris Webber)

    Dirk Nowitzki - elite cause the media says so. Josh Howard was the only one who showed up in the Finals Vs. Miami. He (Dirk) got shut down by...Udonis Haslem.

    Pau Gasol - If you watched this years finals, you know the answer to this one as well. Dunked on Garnett in the series. Then proceeded to have an on court view of how to play PF by KG, who killed him. Don't believe me? Then why'd the Lakers lose by 39 in the deciding game?

    Andrei Kirilenko - Spends more time crying than playing. Paul Milsap has made where Utah is now considering offers for AK-47, who 2 seasons ago was untouchable.

    Saying these cats are busts are reality. Not hate. Are there more busts that are american? Sure, that's by volume. Not everyone can be a star. If you were starting a team tommorow, you wouldn't pick any of the aforementioned players first. You pick an American. The fact of the matter is the nba is dominated by Black american males. Don't like the reality go watch some other league.

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    negro just...

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    If people would look at Dirk's numbers thye would realize that he is by far the bet international player in the game right now bar none. He gets all sorts of abuse for his recent playoff struggles but the fact is his team ran into an unstoppable Dwayne Wade once in the Finals and collapsed and then lost to their old coach, Nellie. Dirk's chance at a championship may have passed with the Mavs' aging roster but he is legitimately a great player don't fool yourself.

  8. #23
    Superstar pat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    You're probably the worst at understanding simple facts.

    Look at the international guys without NCAA experience that have fully succeded in the NBA lately:

    Predrag Stojakovic(NBA all star, one of the best shooters in NBA history) was selected in the 1996 draft, but come to the NBA until the 98-99 season. Previously he played with PAOK in the Greek League and averaged 23.9 points with very tough competition. He was on an elite team also.

    Dirk Nowitzki(MVP, All star, Top 10 player) helped his team get promoted to First German Division right before being picked in the 1998 draft. He was the league's top scorer with 21.4 ppg and third rebounder with 8.4 rpg.

    Pau Gasol's(All star, top 10 big man) dominance in the ACB(best league outside the NBA) League during the 2000-2001 season helped him earned MVP honours at the King's Cup, leading F.C. Barcelona to a perfect 9-0 record during the playoffs.

    Andrei Kirilenko(All star, elite defensive player) was the MVP in his last season in the Russian Superleague. He averaged 19.2 points and 8.7 rebounds for Russia at the European Championships in the summer of 2001.

    Yao Ming(Elite center, all star, best offensive center in the NBA since Shaq) had Chamberlain-esque stats in China the season before he was chosen by the Rockets averaged 32.4 points (with 72% on FG), 19 rebounds and 4.8 blocked shots, and lead the Shangai Sharks to their first CBA title.

    Manu Ginobili(All star, NBA champion, probably the best SG in the NBA behind Kobe) won all kinds of tournaments; Euroleague, Italian league and Italian Cup) and MVP trophies before joining the Spurs in 2002(He was drafted in 1999). He led Argentina to a silver medal in Indiannapolis, making history after beating USA badly. Ginobili won a couple of championships also, making him one of the most successful basketball players in the history of basketball, winning a championship in every league he's been.

    Tony Parker(All star, NBA champion, elite PG.
    His last season in France with Paris Basket Racing (2000-2001), he only averaged 14.7 points and 5.6 assists. Not great numbers, but Parker always was scouted for his blazing speed. An elite athlete.

    Here's the pattern.
    Big accomplishers who are developed and contribute to their overseas teams and making them win against very good competition most of the time turn out to be very successful in the NBA.


    Nikoloz Tskitishvili and Darko Milicic were benchwarmers in Europe. If anyone's to blame its the stupid GM's who draft these guys so high and draft proven guys like Parker and Ginobili so low. Bottom line players like those aren't ready and will never be ready to live to the expectation.
    This strategy of drafting and signing immature European teenagers has backfired on many teams.

    Andrea Bargnani will be just a taller Antwain Jamison without the rebounding skills.

    He shouldn't be considered a bust yet.


    Yi Jianlian got GAME and will produce in the NBA. He has post skills, can block shots, has freakish athlecism for a 7 footer, range from 3pt and loves to rebound and bang in the post.

    Yao is # 2 behind Shaq? You don't even know your center rankings.

    Dwight Howard is the best center in the NBA. Or Even Amare.
    Yao was number 1 for a while also.
    Shaq hasn't been the same and isn't even a top 5 center in the NBA no more, where you been?

    Arroyo is a C+ level PG, undrafted. No one expected him to make the NBA and he still managed to produce respectfully in the league.

    Luis Scola is a NBA rookie who averaged 14 PPG and 9.3 rebounds in the PLAYOFFS, you said he only does work in the REG season. Damn, you are wrong again, no suprise.
    Luis Scola was another SUCESSFUL EUROLEAGUE player who made the all rookie team and will continue to be a very good starter for the Rockets next to Yao.

    Bogut averages almost 15 ppg, 10 rebounds and 2 blocks. Thats not bad at all, nor a BUST.

    I bet if Oden was from FRANCE, you would be calling him out for being "Too soft" and use that for the reason why he missed the whole year.

    You're trying too hard.
    Not coming with the facts.
    Failing miserably with each sentence you write.

    Peja is a career 18 and 5 player and was drafted 14th overall...STFU. Theres more American BUST in the playoffs too, do I have to call them out to make a point? Not even you are that dumb to not realize it.
    But I'm going to do that.

    At 14th in 1996, Peja was selected.
    The next year at 14th in 1997 Maurice Taylor was selected.
    1998, Michael Dickerson was selected.
    1999, William Avery was selected.
    2000, Mateen Cleaves
    2001, Troy Murphy
    2002, Fred Jones
    2003, Luke Ridnour
    2004, Kris Humphries
    2005, Rashad McCants
    2006, Ronnie Brewer

    Here's trivia for you.
    Who was the best player at 14 in the last 10 years in the NBA Draft?
    AN INTERNATIONAL PLAYER FROM YUGOSLAVIA
    Dude, 9 of those American BUST don't even combine together to have the career Peja had. I just pointed out more bust than you did in one simple point. You think I'm done? LOL...theres a reason why dudes avoid to get in debates with me here, the facts I bring are HEAVY.

    Last 10 years 1998-2008, NBA draft lottery bust from U.S.A.
    1998(LOL majority bust)
    Michael Olowokandi
    Raef LaFrentz
    Robert Traylor
    Jason Williams
    Bonzi Wells
    Micheal Doleac
    Keon Clark
    Michael Dickerson
    Bryce Drew

    1999(Good draft, Ginobili happened to be the best player from this draft and went number 58)
    Jonathan Bender
    William Avery
    Trajan Langdon

    2000(LMAO wow)
    Stromile Swift
    Darius Miles
    Demarr Johnson
    Marcus Fizer
    Chris Mihm
    Jamal Crawford
    Joel Przybilla
    Keyon Dooling
    Courtney Alexander
    Etan Thomas
    Mateen Cleaves
    Jason Collier

    2001(LMAO Gasol happened to be the best player from this draft)
    Kwame Brown
    Eddy Curry
    Shane Battier(Role players aren't drafted at 6, 10 and 4 for his career)
    Eddie Griffin
    Rodney White(LMAO, he's playing in Puerto Rico now)
    Kedrick Brown
    Steven Hunter
    Kirk Haston
    Jason Collins
    Michael Bradley
    Joseph Forte

    2002(Yao, yet another INT'L best player from the draft)
    Jay Williams
    Dajuan Wagner
    Melvin Ely
    Chris Wilcox
    Our very own, Jared Jeffries
    Marcus Haislip
    Fred Jones

    I didn't list Dunleavy or Gooden, but they didn't turn out to be anything special for number 3 and 4 picks.

    non lottery
    Juan Dixon (successful college player, terrible NBA player)
    Curtis Borchardt
    Casey Jacobson
    Ryan Humphrey
    Kareem Rush

    2003 was one of the greatest drafts in NBA history.
    Sweetney though.
    T.J. Ford didn't live up to hype, got traded 3 times already.
    Hinrich is average.
    Jarvis Hayes?
    Marcus Banks is a scrub
    Collinson is average
    Troy Bell and Reece Gaines aren't even in the NBA.

    2004
    Emeka Okafor(didn't live up to potential for # 2 pick)
    Shaun Livingston
    Devin Harris
    Josh Childress
    Luke Jackson
    Robert Swift
    Kris Humphries
    Sebestain Telfair(sorry, he's one of my favorites but was another USA lottery bust)

    2005
    Marvin Williams
    Martell Webster
    Charlie V
    Channing Frye
    Ike Diougu
    Sean May
    Rashad McCants
    Antoine Wright
    Joey Graham
    Gerald Green
    Julius Hodge

    2006
    Adam Morrison
    Tyrus Thomas
    Shelden Williams
    Randy Foye
    Patrick O'Bryant
    J.J. Redick
    Hilton Armstrong
    Cedric Simmons
    Shawne Williams

    2007...to be decided

    2008..to be decided.

    Diaw, Barbosa, Bell are all contributors on Phoneix.
    Turkyglu won most improved player and has become the vocal point on offense for the Magic. He's a 20/5/4 player.
    Nicioni has been the Bulls most consistant player, ask most Bulls fans.
    Jose Calderon is one of the best PG's in the NBA, T.J. Ford could be considered a BUST since he was traded 3 times already and hasn't lived up to expectations.
    Parker and Garbojosa are NBA starting material.
    Spurs stock piled on international talent and proved you could suceed in the NBA with European style of basketball (rugged, defensive basketball with fundamental pick and roll on offense)

    I'm a NBA/Draft/Int'l basketball guru, I follow this deeply since 2004. I come heavy with the knowledge and research, so if you want to actually make this is a debate instead of a slaughter, I suggest for you to step up your weight.

    The **** you expect every non-USA guy to dominate the league? You're logic is the most retarded one I seen, on some real talk. No attempt to disrespect you, I respect your post, but I never seen anyone this dumb on such a topic.

    NOW THAT'S A WRAP .
    Well done Metro. Except that The Candyman is actually an international player (I thing Nigerian with a British passport). All this talk about Europeans being not fit for the NBA is crap. Europeans invented Rugby! American football without shoulder pads. Assuming that they are all soft is plain chauvinism, there is no logical explanation where this difference should come from.
    Last edited by pat; Jul 08, 2008 at 06:04.

  9. #24
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    Originally Posted by dr.carpy
    So what do you think the spurs chances are without Duncan? Get real Ginobili is a good player, but he's the beneficiary of Tim Duncan's absolute greatness. Duncan is the only spur, besides Robinson, that will be heading to Springfield.

    Stojacovic - Folds in the playoffs after great players get him somewhere (Chris Webber)

    Dirk Nowitzki - elite cause the media says so. Josh Howard was the only one who showed up in the Finals Vs. Miami. He (Dirk) got shut down by...Udonis Haslem.

    Pau Gasol - If you watched this years finals, you know the answer to this one as well. Dunked on Garnett in the series. Then proceeded to have an on court view of how to play PF by KG, who killed him. Don't believe me? Then why'd the Lakers lose by 39 in the deciding game?

    Andrei Kirilenko - Spends more time crying than playing. Paul Milsap has made where Utah is now considering offers for AK-47, who 2 seasons ago was untouchable.

    Saying these cats are busts are reality. Not hate. Are there more busts that are american? Sure, that's by volume. Not everyone can be a star. If you were starting a team tommorow, you wouldn't pick any of the aforementioned players first. You pick an American. The fact of the matter is the nba is dominated by Black american males. Don't like the reality go watch some other league.
    Finally, someone else on this site who isn't dick riding international players.

    The fact of the matter is simple mathematics...of course there is statistically going to be more American busts..for the simple fact...we've been doing it longer in OUR league. PERIOD. You can go back to the very first NBA draft..and go down through the lists of busts.

    Second point, to be considered a bust generally you're talking about guys drafted in the Top 15 of players...as being the cream of the crop.

    All the names Metro sat up here and dropped...3/4 of them cats weren't expected to be GREAT NBA players. A handful were expected to be seriously earth shattering. Each NBA draft the pickings are much slimmer than say the NFL..which has 7 rounds...compared to the NBAs' 2 rounds.

    The NFL u got a better chance at finding a diamond in the rough because frankly it is deeper...in the NBA the opposite effect simply because you have less rounds. So the evaluation process can't really be as in depth...nor can u really "covet" talent because it's just so slim...that if you know about them..chances are 6-7 other teams know about em...just that y'all rank differently.

    But as far as European and other International players like (Bogut excuse me an Aussie) are concerned...all of them with the exception of like Manu were drafted extremely high. And if you are GOING TO WASTE a pick on an international player that is going to need much more transition...you damned right he better be Kobe, or KG in the next few years. Because American players don't have to adjust to the American game, don't have to learn the language, the customs.

    I've yet to see a European equivalent to Shaq, KG, Kobe, Deron, CP3.

    WE'RE STILL WAITING....

    Europe and International players alike produce shooters for the most part. That is it...

    The best European player really in counting from 80s..honestly, was Drazen.

    Shaq's proven he can win in crunch time..!!!

    Yao hasn't!!
    Dirk hasn't!!
    Andrei hasn't!!
    Okur hasn't!!

    And they are supposed to be the International elites.

    Successful EUROLEAGE?? C'mon that's like being proud your a star on Junior Varsity.

  10. #25
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    Originally Posted by pat
    Well done Metro. Except that The Candyman is actually an international player (I thing Nigerian with a British passport). All this talk about Europeans being not fit for the NBA is crap. Europeans invented Rugby! American football without shoulder pads. Assuming that they are all soft is plain chauvinism, there is no logical explanation where this difference should come from.
    You know seriously if RUGBY was the man sport y'all like to claim it is....how come the NFL year in year out has more career ending injuries, even with all the padding?

    RUGBY ain't ****! Only thing cool about it is the polo's!

  11. #26
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    Everyone mark the 2nd post from this as the weakest reply in Knicksonline.com history.

    You're really opinionated right now.
    I brought you solid facts, historical documents, past draft history, and broke it down to support my arguement.

    All you brought me was a ****ty opinion.

    I'm really disappointed, I guess you just got a hate for Euros and can't really say much except a lot of caca.

    You say they been doing it longer, aren't you contradicting yourself?
    If they've been doing it "longer" they should be least American bust.
    You failed yourself again, how can you debate against yourself and lose? This is embarrassing and this is what happens when you don't know your **** and just talk a lot of opinionated ****.


    "All the names Metro sat up here and dropped...3/4 of them cats weren't expected to be GREAT NBA players."

    Gordo, what proof do you have of this? What really supports a statement like that is that is so invalid?

    Do you really want me to bring out the projections for all the American bust?
    Do you know what DRAFT projections are?
    If you're picked 1-15, you're expected to be a productive NBA starter; thats always been the case.

    KnicksFan4Realz, how did these following players adjust to the "American Game" in the NBA?

    Last 10 years 1998-2008, NBA draft lottery bust from U.S.A.
    1998(LOL majority bust)
    Michael Olowokandi
    Raef LaFrentz
    Robert Traylor
    Jason Williams
    Bonzi Wells
    Micheal Doleac
    Keon Clark
    Michael Dickerson
    Bryce Drew

    1999(Good draft, Ginobili happened to be the best player from this draft and went number 58)
    Jonathan Bender
    William Avery
    Trajan Langdon

    2000(LMAO wow)
    Stromile Swift
    Darius Miles
    Demarr Johnson
    Marcus Fizer
    Chris Mihm
    Jamal Crawford
    Joel Przybilla
    Keyon Dooling
    Courtney Alexander
    Etan Thomas
    Mateen Cleaves
    Jason Collier

    2001(LMAO Gasol happened to be the best player from this draft)
    Kwame Brown
    Eddy Curry
    Shane Battier(Role players aren't drafted at 6, 10 and 4 for his career)
    Eddie Griffin
    Rodney White(LMAO, he's playing in Puerto Rico now)
    Kedrick Brown
    Steven Hunter
    Kirk Haston
    Jason Collins
    Michael Bradley
    Joseph Forte

    2002(Yao, yet another INT'L best player from the draft)
    Jay Williams
    Dajuan Wagner
    Melvin Ely
    Chris Wilcox
    Our very own, Jared Jeffries
    Marcus Haislip
    Fred Jones

    I didn't list Dunleavy or Gooden, but they didn't turn out to be anything special for number 3 and 4 picks.

    non lottery
    Juan Dixon (successful college player, terrible NBA player)
    Curtis Borchardt
    Casey Jacobson
    Ryan Humphrey
    Kareem Rush

    2003 was one of the greatest drafts in NBA history.
    Sweetney though.
    T.J. Ford didn't live up to hype, got traded 3 times already.
    Hinrich is average.
    Jarvis Hayes?
    Marcus Banks is a scrub
    Collinson is average
    Troy Bell and Reece Gaines aren't even in the NBA.

    2004
    Emeka Okafor(didn't live up to potential for # 2 pick)
    Shaun Livingston
    Devin Harris
    Josh Childress
    Luke Jackson
    Robert Swift
    Kris Humphries
    Sebestain Telfair(sorry, he's one of my favorites but was another USA lottery bust)

    2005
    Marvin Williams
    Martell Webster
    Charlie V
    Channing Frye
    Ike Diougu
    Sean May
    Rashad McCants
    Antoine Wright
    Joey Graham
    Gerald Green
    Julius Hodge

    2006
    Adam Morrison
    Tyrus Thomas
    Shelden Williams
    Randy Foye
    Patrick O'Bryant
    J.J. Redick
    Hilton Armstrong
    Cedric Simmons
    Shawne Williams


    Exactly, STFU.

    The arguement isn't about who's equal to Shaq or any MVP caliber player even though its hilarious that before Kobe, the last 3 MVP awards went to International players in Dirk and Nash. That ****s on your argument that INTL players can't be the most valuable player in the NBA, because it already happened.

    America is the best basketball talent country in the world.
    Right now, the best basketball team in FIBA is Spain.
    USA has a chance to take that title and regain Dominance.

    This isn't about USA vs INT'L because USA is superior in talent.

    But you presented yourself in this thread as totally ignorant of INT'L players and most of the NBA for that matter. You should stick to chit chatting about the NFL.

    Okur was Detroit's 6th man and won a ring with that team, you forget because you do things like that.
    Ginobili, Parker, Restorovic were starters on a the championship Spurs. 3 INTL players out of 5 in the starting 5.

    What else could I say really? You haven't proven anything, at ALL.


  12. #27
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    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    You know seriously if RUGBY was the man sport y'all like to claim it is....how come the NFL year in year out has more career ending injuries, even with all the padding?

    RUGBY ain't ****! Only thing cool about it is the polo's!
    NFL aint **** on rugby union or rugby league or Australian Rules. Please.

  13. #28
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    Also Kobe Bryant has played in Italy when he was young.

  14. #29
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    most of those players had very bad injuries and werent projected to be great anyway, alot of overseas players are always to be projected to be the next peja/nowitzki/kukoc

  15. #30
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    Originally Posted by datruth
    most of those players had very bad injuries and werent projected to be great anyway, alot of overseas players are always to be projected to be the next peja/nowitzki/kukoc
    This isn't true.

    Curry was compared to Shaq
    Miles was compared to T'Mac
    Richardson was compared to Paul Pierce

    etc etc etc

    Injuries are apart of sports.

    If you're top 15, you're projected to be very good.

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