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Thread: International Players More Hype than Hope

  1. #106
    Veteran jpz17's Avatar
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    co-sign with jimenezz

  2. #107
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    Nyk Logo

    Originally Posted by TunerAddict
    There you go again running to defend the honor of your girl Im sorry let me to stop offending your special friend I wouldnt want you to hit me with your purse

  3. #108
    12th man
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    My point was already proven.
    The discussion was lottery picks.
    If you don't know how to read thats not my problem.
    Yeh, you should really specify and reread post, it'll help your replies.

    KG/Allen > Nash/Finley; don't be so foolish.

    Pierce has never came close to winning the MVP in the NBA, Dirk has won it, the most ultimate individual award in the NBA. That makes him the better player and the better talent.

    Pierce didn't bring Celtics to an elite level till KG and Allen came to town. No one doubting his talent, so you pointed out his accomplishments are irrelevant. Everyone knows those accomplishments, you're not making much of a point.

    KG was the best Celtic at all times. Pierce didn't make the defensive impact KG did, plus KG was really the offense with his ability to create in the half court, one of the best big men passers in NBA history.

    Pierce before KG made the Celtics offense very stagnant, remember the days of PP/Walker? Almost as bad as Crawford/Randolph

    Point is, you're overrating Pierce A LOT. KG > Pierce.

    Theres a lot of guys in the NBA comparable to Piece, theres like 2-3 guys who compare to KG and they're all NBA first team players/MVPs

    I'd take Dirk over Pierce 10 times out of 10

    Free Throw attempts, Dirk had PP beat this season
    7.1 vs 6.4

    PP for career has 1 more free throw attemtp on average than Dirk, not much of a difference.

    Dirk is more efficient.
    22 ppg
    47% FG
    38% 3pt
    8.5 rebs
    1 stl
    1 blk
    on 1.9 turnovers for his career

    PP is
    23 ppg
    44% FG
    36% 3pt
    6 rebs
    3.1 turnovers


    Winning a championship is a team effort, not an individual effort.

  4. #109
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    Originally Posted by jimenezz7
    There you go again running to defend the honor of your girl Im sorry let me to stop offending your special friend I wouldnt want you to hit me with your purse
    I wasn't defending anyone, I was only pointing out what a loser you are.

  5. #110
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    Originally Posted by jimenezz7
    Now that was a well thought out comeback,The part about the not talking in the beggining not funny but I give you credit for trying,Now to the part about you questioning my buisness sense we can go off the site and put my bank account against yours winner take all,Do yourself a favor dont get into waters you cant swim in.Now to the very informative educated part of your argument I dont disagree at all but I am not gonna sit here and listein to nonsense about genetics making blacks better athletes.Dominating athletes are what they are because of hard work no matter what race they are you can give me RBs and basketball players and I can give you QBs and Hockey players we can go back and forth all day you are what you want to be in life,Then you say you are not gonna denigrate racist behavior is that just on the black end of it or you dont mind white racists too,Im not saying it dont exist that would be stupid Im just saying I dont need it in my life its a cowards way of blaming problems on others when deep inside they know they are complete failures,I dont have the time or the patience to deal with all that my life is to good.And in closing dont come at me about fantasies with you and your little out of work adolescent friend lets be real dont try to reverse things you ran to his defense like I disrespected your girl or something I dont know what your interest is in him thats your closet to come out of I wont judge you maybe you like his picture in his profile whatever it is dont include me,But I wish you two the best
    you're reading... I brought up specifics... here you go with more opinion and hypotheticals... I never claimed to be wealthy... I have enough money to take care of me and my family... sorry I can't afford amenities like season tickets... I guess the weight of your bank account makes you a better debater? Seems like everyone who agrees with KnicksFanz is his girlfriend... for someone who doesn't have these fantasies, you sure do make a lot of cyber homo erotic suggestions...

    Originally Posted by metrocard
    My point was already proven.
    The discussion was lottery picks.
    If you don't know how to read thats not my problem.
    Yeh, you should really specify and reread post, it'll help your replies.

    KG/Allen > Nash/Finley; don't be so foolish.

    Pierce has never came close to winning the MVP in the NBA, Dirk has won it, the most ultimate individual award in the NBA. That makes him the better player and the better talent.

    Pierce didn't bring Celtics to an elite level till KG and Allen came to town. No one doubting his talent, so you pointed out his accomplishments are irrelevant. Everyone knows those accomplishments, you're not making much of a point.

    KG was the best Celtic at all times. Pierce didn't make the defensive impact KG did, plus KG was really the offense with his ability to create in the half court, one of the best big men passers in NBA history.

    Pierce before KG made the Celtics offense very stagnant, remember the days of PP/Walker? Almost as bad as Crawford/Randolph

    Point is, you're overrating Pierce A LOT. KG > Pierce.

    Theres a lot of guys in the NBA comparable to Piece, theres like 2-3 guys who compare to KG and they're all NBA first team players/MVPs

    I'd take Dirk over Pierce 10 times out of 10

    Free Throw attempts, Dirk had PP beat this season
    7.1 vs 6.4

    PP for career has 1 more free throw attemtp on average than Dirk, not much of a difference.

    Dirk is more efficient.
    22 ppg
    47% FG
    38% 3pt
    8.5 rebs
    1 stl
    1 blk
    on 1.9 turnovers for his career

    PP is
    23 ppg
    44% FG
    36% 3pt
    6 rebs
    3.1 turnovers


    Winning a championship is a team effort, not an individual effort.
    ignoring lottery part altogether...

    oh... and in 06... Nash had already won his TWO mvps... making him the first point guard since magic to receive the award... and Finley defeated with SA...

    so your equation would be:

    Howard/Harris/Terry/Dampier < Garnet/Allen/Rondo/Perkins

    but what about the opponents? was MIA 06 better than LA 08?

    Wade/Shaq/Walker/Jason Will/Haslem < Kobe/Gasol/Odom/Fisher

    So Boston was a better team that beat a better team... DAL was a worse team that lost to a worse team... Dallas broke up their big 3 and kept Dirk as the cornerstone... he won the MVP and lost in the first round...

    I brought up Pierce's accomplishments cuz you said he accomplished nothing before Allen/Garnet...

    Dirk is a rare talent... a 7 footer with a handle... 3 point shot... post game... not too many of those in the league (and until gallo or bargniani prove otherwise, the only one)... but PP though less rare is still a top 3 SF... 1. LeBron 2/3 Pierce/Artest (depending on if Ronny has his head on straight)... so there is no disputing either guys' talent...

    but when both players got to the finals... with both teams up in their series... pierce played Kobe to a standstill (he had more defensive help so was better able to contain KB24 and NOBODY on LA could guard him)... Dirk was stymied by the refs and Udonis Haslem...

    pierce/walker made it to the eastern conference finals and eastern semis before being knocked out by Jersey... Crawford/Randolph made it to... the lottery... don't shyte on PP and Walker's earlier work...

    by your mvp argument, Nash was the best player and talent in the 1996 draft (the year of Kobe, AI, Allen, Marbury, Camby, etc), since he has the most of anyone from his draft class... I will say this again... the regular season MVP is no indicator of talent... it just marks which players sportswriters thought deserved it that year... doesn't make it legit...

    PP competitiveness and killer instinct would make me pick him ahead of dirk 10 out of 10 times... I would want a guy on my team that I know won't let us lose if we get to that spot... I know you need guys who can dominate long enough to get us to that spot... but when a championship team is depending on you to be its leader... just being the most dominant regular season athlete isn't good enough for me...

    the only reason i brought up this argument to begin with was because we didn't have a clear definition of what a bust was... we can agree that some guys are busts based on what we've seen or know... but if we're not all using the same criteria... then nothing keeps me from saying that Dirk is a bust because he didn't win with his team up 2-0... and while I mostly agree with you... without establishing a criteria... then we're left arguing opinions... you'll respond with...

    "I brought facts and research... all you brought were opinions... re-read..."

    to whit: Did your free throw attempts stat factor in that PP took less shots this year than normal?

    It's not surprising that a 7' is averaging more rebounds than someone 6'7

    Where are assists, steals and blocks for pierce?

    It's useless mentioning turnovers, since you either need to give the assist/turnover ratio or some other evidence to validate the stat... PF handle the rock less than SFs... Nash/Finley > Walker/Kenny Andersen...

    44% FG and 36% three point percentage are very effecient numbers... and a 2 or 3% difference isn't a great increase in productivity...

    would you rather have Dirk or this guy:

    Rebs 6.9; Steals 1.8; Blocks 0.8; TO 3.32; PTS 27.3; FG 47%; 3PT 32%

    WoW dirk averages more rebounds, less turnovers, a higher 3pt percentage... point being... it's harder to compare players across positions by stats... if PP were a PF your rebounding, blocks, steals, assists and turnover stats would be valid... but he isn't... and there are statistical differences between the two groups that have more to do with position than talent...

  6. #111
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    Nash wasn't playing like an MVP and barely All Star level under Dallas. Him winning MVP's is irrelevant to what he did in Dallas. We're talking about Nash with Dallas, don't make yourself look foolish.

    the 06 Heat were a very good team. Wade and Shaq has great chemistry.

    Dirk won MVP and lead his team to over 60 games. **** the first round. Winning over 60 games in the regular season and being the best player on that team is a very elite task and you have incredibly ignorant to deny that.

    Nash in his prime played the PG position as good anyone in NBA history.

    His career though isn't that great to be compared to Kobe or Iverson.

    You're right about PP/Walker, my bad. Good job on the research.


    Carmelo > Pierce

    Pierce is on the same level as Butler, Richard Jefferson , and T'Mac.

    Dirk stands with a more elite class of PF's.

    Like I said, Finals is a team effort, not an individual effort. You're holding on to that way too much now. What would be your arguement before the Finals this year?

    If you knew anything about rebounding, standing height isn't the only factor in rebounding. Dirk being 5 inches taller than Pierce isn't the biggest factor. Dirk is a better rebounder because he has better rebounding skills period. He's not a banger, but he goes for a lot of defensive rebounder's. He'[s a GOOD rebounder period. Pierce is average. 5-6 rebs is pretty average for a SF, so this rebounding convo is over.

    Stop sucking Pierce off now, he wasn't the best player on Boston and had an excellent supporting cast. You need a great team to make it and win all in the Finals. Kobe was the best player in the Finals, did his team win? No.

    Dirk would be rated higher than Pierce in everything. NBA rankings, Yahoo rankings, ESPN rankings, Fantasy rankings, Metrocard's rankings, NBA 2k8 rankings.

    Its just a fact everyone in this planet except you has accepted for a long ass time. Dirk > Pierce. Pierce winning a chip on an elite team doesn't change a damn thing at all.


    CBS has Dirk #8 Pierce is #26
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Yahoo Fantasy has Dirk #6, Pierce is #24
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Dirk is 5th in the NBA in PER, Pierce is 33rd
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Dirk was rated 95 in NBA 2k8
    Pierce was rated 91

    Do you see the trend?

    Dirk is just on another level Pierce will never be on his career. Dirk has played to level where he has been considered a top 3-5 player and won MVP one season where Pierce has been hanging around the top 15-30 range most of his career.

    44% FG isn't effective FG shooting, its average. 36% 3pt is nothing great either, good, but nothing great.

    Pierce does all this on 3.1 turnovers a game.

    Dirk doesn't even average 2 turnovers a game and can average more points, shoot higher percentages from everywhere in the court. That makes Dirk the more efficient offensive player.


    Eh, I don't know what more I can see really. I think I made enough points for you to understand that Dirk > Pierce, simply.

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    Nyk Logo

    Originally Posted by ShairanXIII
    you're reading... I brought up specifics... here you go with more opinion and hypotheticals... I never claimed to be wealthy... I have enough money to take care of me and my family... sorry I can't afford amenities like season tickets... I guess the weight of your bank account makes you a better debater? Seems like everyone who agrees with KnicksFanz is his girlfriend... for someone who doesn't have these fantasies, you sure do make a lot of cyber homo erotic suggestions...



    ignoring lottery part altogether...

    oh... and in 06... Nash had already won his TWO mvps... making him the first point guard since magic to receive the award... and Finley defeated with SA...

    so your equation would be:

    Howard/Harris/Terry/Dampier < Garnet/Allen/Rondo/Perkins

    but what about the opponents? was MIA 06 better than LA 08?

    Wade/Shaq/Walker/Jason Will/Haslem < Kobe/Gasol/Odom/Fisher

    So Boston was a better team that beat a better team... DAL was a worse team that lost to a worse team... Dallas broke up their big 3 and kept Dirk as the cornerstone... he won the MVP and lost in the first round...

    I brought up Pierce's accomplishments cuz you said he accomplished nothing before Allen/Garnet...

    Dirk is a rare talent... a 7 footer with a handle... 3 point shot... post game... not too many of those in the league (and until gallo or bargniani prove otherwise, the only one)... but PP though less rare is still a top 3 SF... 1. LeBron 2/3 Pierce/Artest (depending on if Ronny has his head on straight)... so there is no disputing either guys' talent...

    but when both players got to the finals... with both teams up in their series... pierce played Kobe to a standstill (he had more defensive help so was better able to contain KB24 and NOBODY on LA could guard him)... Dirk was stymied by the refs and Udonis Haslem...

    pierce/walker made it to the eastern conference finals and eastern semis before being knocked out by Jersey... Crawford/Randolph made it to... the lottery... don't shyte on PP and Walker's earlier work...

    by your mvp argument, Nash was the best player and talent in the 1996 draft (the year of Kobe, AI, Allen, Marbury, Camby, etc), since he has the most of anyone from his draft class... I will say this again... the regular season MVP is no indicator of talent... it just marks which players sportswriters thought deserved it that year... doesn't make it legit...

    PP competitiveness and killer instinct would make me pick him ahead of dirk 10 out of 10 times... I would want a guy on my team that I know won't let us lose if we get to that spot... I know you need guys who can dominate long enough to get us to that spot... but when a championship team is depending on you to be its leader... just being the most dominant regular season athlete isn't good enough for me...

    the only reason i brought up this argument to begin with was because we didn't have a clear definition of what a bust was... we can agree that some guys are busts based on what we've seen or know... but if we're not all using the same criteria... then nothing keeps me from saying that Dirk is a bust because he didn't win with his team up 2-0... and while I mostly agree with you... without establishing a criteria... then we're left arguing opinions... you'll respond with...

    "I brought facts and research... all you brought were opinions... re-read..."

    to whit: Did your free throw attempts stat factor in that PP took less shots this year than normal?

    It's not surprising that a 7' is averaging more rebounds than someone 6'7

    Where are assists, steals and blocks for pierce?

    It's useless mentioning turnovers, since you either need to give the assist/turnover ratio or some other evidence to validate the stat... PF handle the rock less than SFs... Nash/Finley > Walker/Kenny Andersen...

    44% FG and 36% three point percentage are very effecient numbers... and a 2 or 3% difference isn't a great increase in productivity...

    would you rather have Dirk or this guy:

    Rebs 6.9; Steals 1.8; Blocks 0.8; TO 3.32; PTS 27.3; FG 47%; 3PT 32%

    WoW dirk averages more rebounds, less turnovers, a higher 3pt percentage... point being... it's harder to compare players across positions by stats... if PP were a PF your rebounding, blocks, steals, assists and turnover stats would be valid... but he isn't... and there are statistical differences between the two groups that have more to do with position than talent...
    Honestly this has gone on way to long you can bring up facts that blacks are better athletes and I can bring up facts that whites are better athletes,But what diffrence does it really make its a stupid debate because there will be no clear winner we seem to agree to disagree on some points but in the end we will still support this team no matter who is on it and what we are doing is pointless.Now to the point of sticking up for that jerkoff I do have a problem with anybody who defends him for the simple fact that he came on here and put down my race for no reason Im very proud of my heritage he did it in a way thats less than a man online because he would never have the balls to do it face to face,And if you cant respect my point about him than Im sorry I feel your a jerkoff too because if I came on here and started making completley disrespectful remarks about your race I dont think you would stand for it.Now dont get it twisted I respect your posts and your intelligence but I dont agree with what your saying in anyway and you dont agree with me but its just getting tired to come on here everyday and bang heads.So for me this is squashed.

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    Nyk Logo

    Originally Posted by TunerAddict
    I wasn't defending anyone, I was only pointing out what a loser you are.
    Why am I loser because I dont agree with you,Because Im proud of my race and I defend it and say what other white people think but are afraid to voice there opinions.You and that other retard keep bringing up things from 100 years ago and it was horriable what went on but lets keep it real its not my problem and it has nothing to do with me,I live in todays world I had nothing to do with what went on and you didnt either so stop running to it as an escape.Im in the real world everyday where blacks and whites have the same opportunities.So stop saying whites have there money because of free labor give credit where credit is due people are succesful because of what they make out of life black white whatever.So let me ask you this and this is fact is Jay Z a lowlife because he made all his money to get where he is from dirty money and that is fact that is something I saw with my own eyes I can name ten rappers who got there label with dirty money so should I **** on them,No because I dont envy nobody thats the difference between you and me,I see somebody with more than me and I strive to get there and work harder you turn around and say they got what they got because of free labor.Look in the mirror whos the loser.

  9. #114
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    Originally Posted by jimenezz7
    Why am I loser because I dont agree with you,Because Im proud of my race and I defend it and say what other white people think but are afraid to voice there opinions.You and that other retard keep bringing up things from 100 years ago and it was horriable what went on but lets keep it real its not my problem and it has nothing to do with me,I live in todays world I had nothing to do with what went on and you didnt either so stop running to it as an escape.Im in the real world everyday where blacks and whites have the same opportunities.So stop saying whites have there money because of free labor give credit where credit is due people are succesful because of what they make out of life black white whatever.So let me ask you this and this is fact is Jay Z a lowlife because he made all his money to get where he is from dirty money and that is fact that is something I saw with my own eyes I can name ten rappers who got there label with dirty money so should I **** on them,No because I dont envy nobody thats the difference between you and me,I see somebody with more than me and I strive to get there and work harder you turn around and say they got what they got because of free labor.Look in the mirror whos the loser.
    I never said anything about slave labor or any of that. I only made small comments on marketing. Thats why you're a loser, your attacking me about stuff I never said.

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    Nyk Logo

    Originally Posted by TunerAddict
    I never said anything about slave labor or any of that. I only made small comments on marketing. Thats why you're a loser, your attacking me about stuff I never said.
    This is pointless you can call me a loser all day I know where my life is at and you can bet your life I wouldnt trade places with you.So the bottom line is you got your opinion about me and I think your a worthless jerkoff.This debate is never gonna go anywhere and at the end of the day this is never gonna get to the street so name calling back and forth has no point.Good luck with your life.

  11. #116
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    Originally Posted by jimenezz7
    I wouldnt trade places with you.
    Thats a mistake...

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    Nyk Logo

    Originally Posted by TunerAddict
    Thats a mistake...
    Why is that a mistake, if you really want to keep this going after I was ready to let it go.Lets get personal why would that be a mistake lets compare the two and we will leave family out of this because they have nothing to do with it.Lets compare the other things that matter since you want to keep going and since you are so addictied to facts lets compare our lives Starting with Money,Real Estate,Cars,What we do for a living,Everything and lets see who lives the better life.Anytime you want to, Dont make statements you cant back up with FACTS you love facts and statistics so much lets compare FACTS and STATISTICS about our lives and see who wins you want to get personal lets get personal so we see who the real moron is its funny you talk a lot of **** heres your chance to shut me up so whenever your ready to stop talking **** and back up one of your statements we can compare any aspect of life you want anything If you can beat me at any of the things I stated I will give you my salary for a year You have my word on that so heres your chance big mouth back up your statement

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    if you trade pierce and kobe the celtics woulda swept the lakers

    [I hate garnett]If you trade garnett and duncan the celtics woulda swept the lakers[/I hate garnett]

    kobe>>pierce
    duncan>>garnett

    dirk=underrated, under-appreciated

    Lets not forget, mavericks might have won in 06 if josh howard didnt pull a chris webber and call a timeout when the mavs didnt have any. At that point dallas was up 2-0 in the series...miami won the 3rd game and went on to win the next 3, and the championship. It was josh howard who choked, not dirk.

    2007- i think most of the blame has to go to avery johnson for resting his players too much at the end of the season. I gotta give credit to the warriors for showin alotta heart and pullin off one of the greatest upsets in basketball history...and i will say that dirk didnt play as physical as i would have liked to see him play but the mavericks were off from avery resting the starters too much at the end of the season.

    The mvp has to do with who the best player is during the season. The mavericks won around 65 games and dirk was the best player on the team. I dont think dirk has ever been the best player in the nba or even top 5 but thats the logic the voters chose...best player on the best team. I dont like lebron but i think the way he always plays...he might arguably be the best all around player in the league. I thought it was kobe and i still think hes the most talented (with chris paul right behind him) but i didnt like the way he played in the finals. I thought his attitude was poor and he took too many jumpshots.

    this year the mavericks got burned by chris paul. They had no one who could stop him. Jason kidd is too old and slow. Mavs should have not made that trade. Mark Cuban lost

    dirks stats vs hornets>>dirks stats during season

    He does step his game up in the playoffs

    And josh howard opened his mouth about smokin trees in the off season. That sh!t ****ed up the whole team. I cant remember some of the other sh!t that happened but i remember the mavs having alotta problems not only on the court but off the court in the 1st round. I remember something happening at one of their practices...not sure exactly what it was. Something bad happened...maybe some of the players didnt show up or something.

    To conclude everything i think dirk is underrated by the fans but overrated by analysts and mvp voters...overall i consider him underrated. Most fans i talk to dont like him. You gotta respect his ability to score...his passion for the game. Hes stepped up his effort on defense over the last couple of years...he battles for those rebounds. Hes far from being soft like he used to be but hes not the toughest guy at the same time. If he was he wouldve brought it hard to the warriors down low no homo.

    Is dirk better the pierce? Its very close in my opinion....i felt like pierce was the best player in the finals. Garnett played big in the last game but that was a blowout so i can only give him a limited amount of credit for that. He shoulda dominated and sh!tted all over the lakers. He only shot 40% through the first 5 games. Thats something tim duncan would never do. Pierce played big but it wasnt all pierce...posey, allen, rondo, powe, the whole team stepped up and i gotta say the celtics together played great as a team.

    I think dirk is at least a better player during the season...during the playoffs its close but when dirk made it to the finals the he didnt have as much help as paul pierce did this year. And the mavs went through one of the greatest teams of my lifetime...the spurs...the toughest team the celtics played was the cavs. In 2007 the same spurs team that lost to the mavs swept the cavs in the finals.


    Nowitzkis career averages

    22.4ppg
    47.1fg%
    37.9 3pt%
    8.6rpg
    2.7apg
    87 FT%

    Nowitzkis career playoff averages

    25.3ppg
    44.7fg%
    37.3 3PT%
    11.1 rpg
    2.5apg
    87.3 FT%


    To me one of the biggest things is how a player steps his game up in the playoffs. When you see an increase from regular season to playoffs...thats one of the most important stats. Most of dirks playoff stats are better then his regular season stats. You dont see the same trend with Paul pierce


    Pierces career averages

    23.1ppg
    44.2fg%
    36.3 3pt%
    6.4rpg
    3.9apg
    79.5 FT%

    Pierces career playoff averages

    22.5ppg
    42fg%
    32.4 3PT%
    7.1 rpg
    4.7apg
    81.5 FT%


    With pierce you see the drop off in his shooting percentages and his points per game. Pierce does step up his rebounding and his passing in the playoffs. And his defense was real good. Overall i gotta say dirk is better. Dirk aint as good of an individual defender but hes a good team defender. His offense, rebounding, free throw shooting, and the mis-matches he creates makes him a better player. How many players are there that can do a good job of guarding dirk? I hate to give garnett credit but hes one of the few that can guard him down low and on the perimeter. I cant really think of anyone else right now.

  14. #119
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    Originally Posted by MSGKnickz33
    if you trade pierce and kobe the celtics woulda swept the lakers

    [I hate garnett]If you trade garnett and duncan the celtics woulda swept the lakers[/I hate garnett]

    kobe>>pierce
    duncan>>garnett

    dirk=underrated, under-appreciated

    Lets not forget, mavericks might have won in 06 if josh howard didnt pull a chris webber and call a timeout when the mavs didnt have any. At that point dallas was up 2-0 in the series...miami won the 3rd game and went on to win the next 3, and the championship. It was josh howard who choked, not dirk.

    2007- i think most of the blame has to go to avery johnson for resting his players too much at the end of the season. I gotta give credit to the warriors for showin alotta heart and pullin off one of the greatest upsets in basketball history...and i will say that dirk didnt play as physical as i would have liked to see him play but the mavericks were off from avery resting the starters too much at the end of the season.

    The mvp has to do with who the best player is during the season. The mavericks won around 65 games and dirk was the best player on the team. I dont think dirk has ever been the best player in the nba or even top 5 but thats the logic the voters chose...best player on the best team. I dont like lebron but i think the way he always plays...he might arguably be the best all around player in the league. I thought it was kobe and i still think hes the most talented (with chris paul right behind him) but i didnt like the way he played in the finals. I thought his attitude was poor and he took too many jumpshots.

    this year the mavericks got burned by chris paul. They had no one who could stop him. Jason kidd is too old and slow. Mavs should have not made that trade. Mark Cuban lost

    dirks stats vs hornets>>dirks stats during season

    He does step his game up in the playoffs

    And josh howard opened his mouth about smokin trees in the off season. That sh!t ****ed up the whole team. I cant remember some of the other sh!t that happened but i remember the mavs having alotta problems not only on the court but off the court in the 1st round. I remember something happening at one of their practices...not sure exactly what it was. Something bad happened...maybe some of the players didnt show up or something.

    To conclude everything i think dirk is underrated by the fans but overrated by analysts and mvp voters...overall i consider him underrated. Most fans i talk to dont like him. You gotta respect his ability to score...his passion for the game. Hes stepped up his effort on defense over the last couple of years...he battles for those rebounds. Hes far from being soft like he used to be but hes not the toughest guy at the same time. If he was he wouldve brought it hard to the warriors down low no homo.

    Is dirk better the pierce? Its very close in my opinion....i felt like pierce was the best player in the finals. Garnett played big in the last game but that was a blowout so i can only give him a limited amount of credit for that. He shoulda dominated and sh!tted all over the lakers. He only shot 40% through the first 5 games. Thats something tim duncan would never do. Pierce played big but it wasnt all pierce...posey, allen, rondo, powe, the whole team stepped up and i gotta say the celtics together played great as a team.

    I think dirk is at least a better player during the season...during the playoffs its close but when dirk made it to the finals the he didnt have as much help as paul pierce did this year. And the mavs went through one of the greatest teams of my lifetime...the spurs...the toughest team the celtics played was the cavs. In 2007 the same spurs team that lost to the mavs swept the cavs in the finals.


    Nowitzkis career averages

    22.4ppg
    47.1fg%
    37.9 3pt%
    8.6rpg
    2.7apg
    87 FT%

    Nowitzkis career playoff averages

    25.3ppg
    44.7fg%
    37.3 3PT%
    11.1 rpg
    2.5apg
    87.3 FT%


    To me one of the biggest things is how a player steps his game up in the playoffs. When you see an increase from regular season to playoffs...thats one of the most important stats. Most of dirks playoff stats are better then his regular season stats. You dont see the same trend with Paul pierce


    Pierces career averages

    23.1ppg
    44.2fg%
    36.3 3pt%
    6.4rpg
    3.9apg
    79.5 FT%

    Pierces career playoff averages

    22.5ppg
    42fg%
    32.4 3PT%
    7.1 rpg
    4.7apg
    81.5 FT%


    With pierce you see the drop off in his shooting percentages and his points per game. Pierce does step up his rebounding and his passing in the playoffs. And his defense was real good. Overall i gotta say dirk is better. Dirk aint as good of an individual defender but hes a good team defender. His offense, rebounding, free throw shooting, and the mis-matches he creates makes him a better player. How many players are there that can do a good job of guarding dirk? I hate to give garnett credit but hes one of the few that can guard him down low and on the perimeter. I cant really think of anyone else right now.

    ITS A WRAP



    WTF, this wasn't the argument in the beginning of the thread. Why can't herbs cosign with the facts and just start a whole new argument...smh.

  15. #120
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    Inter Players Own American Players!!

    Manu
    Tony
    Tim

    All Three Aren"t From Usa

    Dirk
    Nash
    Ilgauskas
    Gasol
    Kleiza
    Ming
    Oberto
    Nocioni
    Barbosa
    Bell
    Dalembert
    Scola
    Nene
    Hortford
    Mutombo
    Janlian
    Bougut
    Deng
    Diaw
    Kirilenko
    Peja
    Okur
    Turk!

    Face It Americans Can't Match Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    The American Basketball Needs To Move Over And Make Room!!!!
    International Players Are Gonna Be Stars!

    There Are Also Much Better Players Still In Euro!!

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