WTF is happening - Zach/Clips deal turned down

metrocard

Legend
d'antoni isn't high on lee (that's why he traded him)... ..

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ShairanXIII

Rotation player
30 David Lee (PF) United States New York Knicks (from Phoenix via San Antonio) Florida Sr.

mike d'antoni drafted david lee... mike d'antoni traded david lee because his limited offensive range didn't fit in phoenix... it was in the daily news... now stfu...
 

Paul1355

All Star
almost forgot... since guys will get better numbers... their trade value will go up as well... so holding on to randolph might force LA to give us gordon since he won't shine without a team around him in the west anyway...

thats exactly why i said that Donnie Walsh made a smart move holind Randolph and refusing the Clips first offer
 

Paul1355

All Star
For Umynot

I did not say Thomas over Lee or Gallo nor that he is needed at all playa!!!

He makes 7 mil a year and we are trading our PF so it makes sense to take someone who can play PF back! If we can get a first rounder he is a perfect piece to take back!! He played great in this system already!! Zach is better no doubt but he has to go! He wont run enough for us and his contract goes to 2011 and thats not part of the plans!


In D'Antoni system Nate and Marbs will both see minutes at SG !!

Mobley costs more and WAS HURT LAST YEAR!!!!!!

Read everything before you respond

1)son think about what you just said...you argued that Thomas would make more sense in a trade but u said that he might not be needed at all??? whats the point in getting him then??
2) You argued that we would need another PF if Zach goes...look at our roster...Lee, Gallo, Jeffries, and even Chandler can play that we have enough forwards
3) I never said keep Zach, i said trade him for Mobley because we dont have a SG to back up Crawford
4) The reason why i asked if you were nuts is exactly what you just repeated in your last line...yes Marbury and Nate would do good in D'Antoni's system but Nate CANT PLAY SG HES TOOOOOO SMALLL HE'S 5'9!!!!
5)You say Mobley has injury problems..ok i dont intend to keep him for the future! he's just their untill his contract is up but he is usuable at the SG spot..and Tim Thomas hasnt always been healthy even with the Knicks..and Mobley still put up better FG percentage then Thomas..Mobley is a backup, im not impressed with his ppg which was only 12 but he's a need as a backup SG.
6) Marbury would play a good SG but we still have Crawford wether we do your move or not...which puts Marbury as the starting PG and no back up for Crawford
7)Conclusion: your move results in having another un-needed forward and not filling a backup SG which is the reason why Donnie Walsh wanted Eric Gordon
8) If Mobley's contract expires before 2010 then it doesnt matter if he cost more than Thomas because with my move Mobley would play more than Thomas would in your move....Mobley would be more worth it...does any of this make sense to you?
 

umynot

Benchwarmer
First thing Playa you need to chill with the down talking cause I'm far from dumb!

I feel what your saying about Nate's height but D'Antoni has already said " I will be using Nate & Marbury at SG" those are his words!! He was also quoted yesterday saying " I can envision Wilson Chandler anywhere from SG SF or PF" add Crawford Marty and Duhon and we have plenty of capable guards to play there!

Gordon signed his rookie contract and cant be traded for 3 months! I have heard that Donnie is holding out to get him and if thats the case I'm all for it as far as Mobley over Thomas it makes no sense at all! Mobley will make more money and play less!

If we trade Randolph we will only have Lee as a legit PF. Gallo could start there but as a 19 y/o you rather groom him slowly. You start Lee and give Gallo big minutes so Thomas can be someone who could help fill minutes while we get everyone where we want them!


I am knocking what your saying as long as we get a pick I dont care how it goes down! Mobley THomas or even someone else as long as we rid ourselves of Randolph!!
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
It's a bit long, but I kind of agree with this guy. We should have accepted the 2nd round pick for Randolph while we had the chance to get rid of him. If Zach is still on our team in the summer of 2011 and we get outbid in signing a big time free agent, we will regret this decision.

Monday, Jul 14, 2008 9:00 am EDT

Knicks and Clippers both get it wrong, all at once
By Kelly Dwyer


The news has been batted around for a few days now, and even after careful consideration and the idea or reification that the Donnie Walsh-era Knicks may have meant a bit more to us than it does to him or Mike D'Antoni ... it doesn't matter. We may not even be fans of the team, and we're still aghast.

Word is, the Knicks passed on a chance to unload Zach Randolph (above, trying to act like a point guard even back then) for absolutely nothing.

In case you missed it, I'm not off, the Knicks would have to take on absolutely (read: a second round draft pick) nothing save for cap space and a reason not to have an on and off-court millstone on the team's roster. The Los Angeles Clippers (the trading partner) are reeling, they consider themselves a 45-win team worth considering, and they want to fill out that salary bracket with a legitimate 20-and-10 guy in Dr. Randolph.

Nutters.

Zach Randolph can drop 20 and 10, with a minimal amount of effort. He's not a bad guy, in a basketball sense, and he does think his particular brand of ball has a closer relationship with winning than what most other observers (this side of El Lay) would like to believe.

Randolph's thinking is orthodox, and the coaches who have tried to pry from him and the owners who have thrown money at him have done wonders with this mug's mindset. A 20-point and 10-rebound guy who does his damage in the low post should be a cornerstone, even if we're aware that this hypothetical contributor's contributions on the defensive end lack a little, or even a lot. 20 and 10 is 20 and 10 and it hardly detracts from the 20 and 10 that is the 20 and 10.

And, somehow, Zach Randolph ruins it. For everyone.

He's like Brevin Knight, plus 15-million bucks. Brevin Knight gives you heaps of assists, few turnovers, and a few steals.

He doesn't play great defense, Brevin, I reckon, and he can't shoot, Brevin I know, and Brevin can't rebound.

But he does steal the ball, and pass for assists. He's like the Zach Attack, just substitute two stats for two others.

And, because Zach's contributions - points, and rebounds - are so cherished amongst you and your brother and his fiancée and her high school track coach, he skirts away with a contract like this. And, make no mistake, Zach worked toward this. He was a lower-rung draft pick, was forced to work behind Dale Davis for no reason during the 2002-03 season, and worked his tail off to overcome microfracture surgery a year before Amare Stoudemire sulked through his rehab.

But he's useless, and that's not just me trying to make a point. He has no idea how to take to more than a basic NBA defense. If anything that hints at a double-team comes his way, the man is more or less useless, with only the presence of Eddy Curry in this league allowing me the chance to write "more or less."

Defensively, he's absolute rubbish. I'm not piling on. Just understand that he hurts a team more than you can possibly try and assume.

Zach likes throwing up that jump hook, with either hand, in the gym over the summer. And he can step out to three-point range, occasionally. He can play. He can do certain offensive things, quite well. And because coaches think they can take these minimal (though profound) talents and turn these sorts of skill sets into all-around games, a player like Zach allows for coach after coach after coach to make excuses over the summer and beg the GM, "der, gimme a chance, please?"

(It's pretty obvious that MLB dugouts have been more or less run by mugs for years, but at least they don't become smitten with guys like Rob Deer and Pete Incaviglia year after year. These men may push the sac bunt toward oblivion, but at least Kevin Maas doesn't still have a job.)

OK, so there's Zach. He doesn't work, in real time, at least. He just doesn't work, under any auspices or pretense or hope or semi-function, and it's not working. Zach doesn't work. Zach won't work on your team. He just won't. Scoring and rebounding are important, but so is an efficient offense, and a competent defense.

And Zach'ss owed a heap of money until 2011.

(A whole host of fabulous pro basketball players become free agents in 2010.)

(Forget that.)

(Seriously.)

The Clippers are desperate. For whatever reason, they lost Elton Brand. They have a ton of cap space, and a giant crevice at power forward. And just as the Golden State Warriors needlessly overpaid for Corey Maggette's services, this team wants a veteran to put up numbers and make life odd for the fans.

And that's what Zach would do.

("I don't get it, he had 24 and 12, why do I hate him?")

So the Clippers, who can afford the cap hit, offered a second round pick for Randolph from the Knicks, who need this guy like they need, well, another low post semi-threat who doesn't defend or play sound offense.

And the Knicks, with bossman Donnie Walsh and coach Mike D'Antoni at the helm, declined. Because they're nutters.

Knicks, please, this is an elderly couple that went to Vegas with a four thousand dollar budget, lost all of it on roulette or some other ridiculous game of chance, and then won a thousand bucks in a slot in the airport. They've six hours before their plane departs back to Jupiter, Florida, and they're rushing back to the Bellagio. Take advantage. Sorry for making that sound like Bill Simmons, but sometimes that's how it works.

It doesn't matter who you can get in 2010. What matters is eventual cap room, for anyone besides Zach Randolph, and the idea that these idiots from Los Angeles want to take this load on ... and you're quibbling? Why, exactly?

Look, nobody likes to just lose outright. I understand it. But if you don't "lose outright," you're falling into the same trap every Knick GM for the last 30 years has fallen into - not giving you fanbase enough credit.

Knicks fans are smart fans. Knicks fans are stupid fans, too, but there's so damn many of them that it's hard to remember that the Knicks have a smarter percentage of actual rooting fans than any other team in this league. So, understand, that these people will also understand when you dump this one-season mess for absatively nothing.

Remember, you've the sympathy of the entire Western World, everybody knows you're paying for the Sins of der Isiah'er, so why not push the martyr envelop even further? You're not going to end up with LeBron James, more than likely, but why not try and end up with less of Zach Randolph and his onerous contract?

We know that Randolph is a workout beast. He's one of the hardest practice workers in the game (seriously), and has been for years. That's not a joke. That doesn't mean you should think that he's turning a corner.

Also, every coach thinks he can turn certain players into winners. It's the hubris that comes with the clipboard. Every coach wants a challenge. Every coach thinks that his or her speech is going to be "the one" to turn things around for a certain player, and it rarely is. D'Antoni can talk all he wants to with Donnie about being able to work Randolph into a better trade value than a second round pick and cap space ... but he's wrong.

And anyone who is reading this knows it. Stop it. You know it's true.

When I first saw a headline referring to a possible deal, I'd assumed that the Knicks agreed to take the extra year of Tim Thomas' contract on for Malik Rose's expiring deal along with a Randolph-for-crap pick trade, mainly because my computer is quite slow, and my aptitude for recalling the specifics behind MLE-yet-still-overpaid contracts is quite fast.

I still can't make a béarnaise, and I've DVDs that need labeling, but I can tell you that it was a bit shocking to see that the Knicks refused to pass on Randolph in a pure salary dump.

If I were the Knicks, I wouldn't even think twice about re-visiting the original trade angle. Maybe, and this is a bit of a reach, see if you could include Jared Jeffries in any deal, but don't push too hard.

Apologies for making this too personal, but I can't think of any condition in, say, May of 2011 that would allow for Knick fans to think fondly on the time that Mssrs. Walsh and D'Antoni took their time offering Zach Randolph to the Los Angeles Clippers for nothing but cap space.

Even without considering the team's parsimonious history (which has been a non-issue since 2003), it's too much of a risk to hope that the Clippers won't be able to sign Emeka Okafor, or Andre Iguodala or Josh Smith, or just keep the cap space.

You can't barter with a sick mind. Actually, you can, but you're just going to end up with a batch of kittens and a few Poco albums.

Dump the power forward and move on.
 

Shaunyboy23

Benchwarmer
30 David Lee (PF) United States New York Knicks (from Phoenix via San Antonio) Florida Sr.

mike d'antoni drafted david lee... mike d'antoni traded david lee because his limited offensive range didn't fit in phoenix... it was in the daily news... now stfu...
pRINGLES TRADED DAVID LEE B4 HE BACAME WAT HE IZ 2DAY. BIG DIFFERENCE WEN A DUDE AVERAGES A DUBBLE DUBBLE
 

Paul1355

All Star
First thing Playa you need to chill with the down talking cause I'm far from dumb!

I feel what your saying about Nate's height but D'Antoni has already said " I will be using Nate & Marbury at SG" those are his words!! He was also quoted yesterday saying " I can envision Wilson Chandler anywhere from SG SF or PF" add Crawford Marty and Duhon and we have plenty of capable guards to play there!

Gordon signed his rookie contract and cant be traded for 3 months! I have heard that Donnie is holding out to get him and if thats the case I'm all for it as far as Mobley over Thomas it makes no sense at all! Mobley will make more money and play less!

If we trade Randolph we will only have Lee as a legit PF. Gallo could start there but as a 19 y/o you rather groom him slowly. You start Lee and give Gallo big minutes so Thomas can be someone who could help fill minutes while we get everyone where we want them!


I am knocking what your saying as long as we get a pick I dont care how it goes down! Mobley THomas or even someone else as long as we rid ourselves of Randolph!!

Never said your dumb just that you overlooked some things in previous quotes and that you should look carefully.

If those are from Mike D's mouth then he is blind. I have never seen a 5'9 SG and he will get owned if he ever played that spot. This statemend was said cuz he knocked on Nate for not being a true point guard so to be nice he said he can play more than the 1 spot which is 99% unlikely. Common sense factor...height makes him impossible at the SG now he would get butt raped. Duhon is a pure PG as Donnie and Mike D said so dont expect him at the 2 spot. Leaves Crawford and the questionable Marty Collins who needs improvement. Mike D says Chandler can play any spot cuz because he has great skills but his height and and ablitlity is perfect for a small forward maybe PF if necessary. Think about it they tried to get Eric Gordon a great future SG so why would they attempt to make Chandler a SG? Chandler will be a forward i think he's 6'9 and unless his athlesticism is like Lebron he'll be at the forward spot his whole career. And Mike D said that he likes a Chandler and Gallinari combo...two forwards working together. Just look at plainly..Nate is a PG and Chandler is a forward bottom line. Mike D will say that every player can play every spot cuz it makes them look better. Gallo will get big minutes because he was the 6th pick! Donnie has patience but Knicks fans dont and Donnie understand he will get alot of playing time and thats the only way he will develope.
In the end...1)Nate will always play PG
2)Chandler is a forward not a guard
3)Mike D saying whatever about Nate and Chandler is nice talk to make them look good to the public.
4)Gallo will get big minutes! because he's suppose to change this team in the future and he cant do that with Thomas taking possible minutes and being another forward. which would make Thomas not neccessary...
5)Collins hasnt proven yet to be a solid SG backup so Mobley makes more sense regardelss of more money because it ends soon anyways
6)Mobley would get more playing time because of everything i said before.
7) A shooting guard is needed...Mobley fits...his contract expires soon...Mobley fits...If Gordon doesnt make this Knicks team...Mobley fits...he is the 2nd option SG to take.
lol were done with this none of our deals will prob ever happen if yours does ill give u props but we gotta wait and see.
 

metrocard

Legend
30 David Lee (PF) United States New York Knicks (from Phoenix via San Antonio) Florida Sr.

mike d'antoni drafted david lee... mike d'antoni traded david lee because his limited offensive range didn't fit in phoenix... it was in the daily news... now stfu...

Are you ****ing retarded? Why are you making up shit?

We got the 30th pick from San Antonio in the Malik Rose for Nazr deal.

Damn you're stupid.

February 25, - acquired forward Malik Rose and conditional first-round picks in 2005 from the San Antonio Spurs for center Nazr Mohammed and guard Jamison Brewer.
 

Trin_Starr

Starter
Are you ****ing retarded? Why are you making up shit?

We got the 30th pick from San Antonio in the Malik Rose for Nazr deal.

Damn you're stupid.

February 25, - acquired forward Malik Rose and conditional first-round picks in 2005 from the San Antonio Spurs for center Nazr Mohammed and guard Jamison Brewer.

cat-owned.jpg


lol :)
 

Kiyaman

Legend
What does it take for Zach Randolph
to average a 20-10 season?

The only change that the Portland Blazers made
was getting Zach, Jones, and Dickau off their roster
for the Knicks poorman Channing Frye.
And came out of the deal with a .500 season team.
When was the last time Portland had a .500 season team?

Donnie Walsh has no insight on how to build a Postseason Team.
Before Coach Larry Brown was Indiana a Postseason Team?

If the Portland Blazers still had Zach Randolph would they had made
the trade with the Clippers for just a 2nd round draft pick? YES! it's
better than buying-out Francis for $30 million to get rid of Zach contract.
But Donnie Walsh is to "STUPID" to recognize this.
It does not matter if some Knick-Fans is to DUM to recognize
a Fraud like 20-10 Zach, but the President of the New York Knicks.................
There isnt a place in New York where Zach Randolph could hangout
without a Fan going at him. He better do like Marbury and open up a 99 cent store for clothes.
 

GetRealistic

Starter
What does it take for Zach Randolph
to average a 20-10 season?

The only change that the Portland Blazers made
was getting Zach, Jones, and Dickau off their roster
for the Knicks poorman Channing Frye.
And came out of the deal with a .500 season team.
When was the last time Portland had a .500 season team?

Donnie Walsh has no insight on how to build a Postseason Team.
Before Coach Larry Brown was Indiana a Postseason Team?

If the Portland Blazers still had Zach Randolph would they had made
the trade with the Clippers for just a 2nd round draft pick? YES! it's
better than buying-out Francis for $30 million to get rid of Zach contract.
But Donnie Walsh is to "STUPID" to recognize this.
It does not matter if some Knick-Fans is to DUM to recognize
a Fraud like 20-10 Zach, but the President of the New York Knicks.................
There isnt a place in New York where Zach Randolph could hangout
without a Fan going at him. He better do like Marbury and open up a 99 cent store for clothes.


I know everybody is bitter and they should be bitter after the last 10 years but what has Donnie done to be judge on just yet. He drafted a young 19 year old who has great upside, signed a decent stop-gap point guard for the time being, has discussed buying out Jerome James and Stephon Marbury. What else did you want him to do? I mean the trading period did just start 7 days ago. Do you want him to rush into a trade? Training camp doesn't start till October there's no rush. I don't know what were going to get in return but I'm fairly sure Zach will be traded and more then likely Marbury and Jerome James will be gone. So if you ask me hes been pretty successful.

Walsh has a plan and that plan is to cut money, aquire draft picks, and be ready for 2010 free agency. Seems like a nice plan to me. I know were Knick fans and we like to complain but lets atleast wait till training camp when we have a better guage on what the roster looks like.

And hey if Roberson turns into a contributor that was a nice find by Donnie inviting him to camp. I figure you'd love Roberson Kiya. I know hes know Nichols but he is a summer league find.
 

George M.

Benchwarmer
I know everybody is bitter and they should be bitter after the last 10 years but what has Donnie done to be judge on just yet. He drafted a young 19 year old who has great upside, signed a decent stop-gap point guard for the time being, has discussed buying out Jerome James and Stephon Marbury. What else did you want him to do? I mean the trading period did just start 7 days ago. Do you want him to rush into a trade? Training camp doesn't start till October there's no rush. I don't know what were going to get in return but I'm fairly sure Zach will be traded and more then likely Marbury and Jerome James will be gone. So if you ask me hes been pretty successful.

Walsh has a plan and that plan is to cut money, aquire draft picks, and be ready for 2010 free agency. Seems like a nice plan to me. I know were Knick fans and we like to complain but lets atleast wait till training camp when we have a better guage on what the roster looks like.

And hey if Roberson turns into a contributor that was a nice find by Donnie inviting him to camp. I figure you'd love Roberson Kiya. I know hes know Nichols but he is a summer league find.
Chill out bitter Knick fans.More trades are on the way.http://www.nypost.com/seven/07162008/sports/knicks/roberson_deal_could_be_end_for_marbury_120090.htm
 
I know everybody is bitter and they should be bitter after the last 10 years but what has Donnie done to be judge on just yet. He drafted a young 19 year old who has great upside, signed a decent stop-gap point guard for the time being, has discussed buying out Jerome James and Stephon Marbury. What else did you want him to do? I mean the trading period did just start 7 days ago. Do you want him to rush into a trade? Training camp doesn't start till October there's no rush. I don't know what were going to get in return but I'm fairly sure Zach will be traded and more then likely Marbury and Jerome James will be gone. So if you ask me hes been pretty successful.

Walsh has a plan and that plan is to cut money, aquire draft picks, and be ready for 2010 free agency. Seems like a nice plan to me. I know were Knick fans and we like to complain but lets atleast wait till training camp when we have a better guage on what the roster looks like.

And hey if Roberson turns into a contributor that was a nice find by Donnie inviting him to camp. I figure you'd love Roberson Kiya. I know hes know Nichols but he is a summer league find.

Yeah, I don't understand how Knick fans are all over Walsh already. He is doing a fine job so far. People say Duhon is trash, but come on what do you expect when we are a trillion dollars over the cap limit.
 
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