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Thread: Explaining Evolution And Why GOD is NOT LIKELY

  1. #136
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    Jesus is a hero of mine, Carl Sagan a hero of yours. I'm not calling you a liar and such because you defend a man chasing monkies and such to make your points do I?
    I'm calling you a liar because you are taking quotes out of context. You are using quotes from respected people and saying, "look these people say that the fossil record is incorrect in proving evolution", when that is completely false. They were actually refuting that conception. This is atleast a deceitful practice.

    Stop the lies, accept the truth. I learned a lot or truths today by accident. I learned Hitler, Stalin and a few others were athiests. I have heard some of you say that athiests would not start wars if they ran the country and such.. Yet one athiest started one of the worst wars in human history.
    Hitler was actually a Roman Catholic that tried to exterminate a religious group of people. Stalin was an atheist. But he did not murder millions of people in the name of atheism. I never said all atheists are good people. Like religious people, there are good ones and there are bad ones. It's just that religious murderers do it in the name of their god.

    Stop the lies, accept the truth. I always wondered how humans could find a relic, and decide that it's millions of years old. Faulty radiation tools. Scientists " THESE BONES ARE 17. 56769697494O4736384849374859O473947383447384738365 468736384736648368463.1928374846373837654637327828 46373 YEARS OLD! "We know this because we have a perfect tool for caculating times before mankinds provable documented history, which only dates back 5000 years! Oh wait, we thought it was perfect, but it's perfect sometimes! If it says thousands, it's wrong. If it says millions, jackpot! Good work.
    Again, you are lying. I keep telling you to stop saying scientists just make stuff up, yet you continue to do so. I've also showed you the process of carbon dating. It's true, some tests will turn up false results. But that is why they have multiple independant organizations perform numerous tests from several methods on the same sample. Science does not have a motive to disprove religion. Only to learn the facts. You have a motive to disprove science. And you are the one being deceptively selective to make it seem your religion is true. Don't claim you know something when you have no idea of the process involved.

    End of the day, you believe what you do, as do I believe what I do. But I'll leave you with this thought. Very, very shortly, the world will be in tribulation it has never seen in human history according to the bible. Only way to be protected, is by divine favor. Won't it be a sad, sad day if you're alive to see that time, and know you had a chance to gain God's favor, but chose to be like those in Noah's day who laughed at him until it actually rained, then they wanted to run and get on the ark? What is the fossil record going to do for anyone then?
    Yes, you believe what you want and I'll believe what I want. Won't it be sad though, that you've wasted your entire life worshipping something that doesn't exist. That you will have come and gone, and the world will still keep evolving for hundreds of millions of years.
    Last edited by LJ4ptplay; Jul 26, 2008 at 11:11.

  2. #137
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    I'm calling you a liar because you are taking quotes out of context. You are using quotes from respected people and saying, "look these people say that the fossil record is incorrect in proving evolution", when that is completely false. They were actually refuting that conception. This is atleast a deceitful practice.
    Again, you're taking it out of context yourself, not the other way around. If Hagan is going to say "the fossil record can be consistent with a designer" then even if he tries to refute it in his point, the option is there for one to suggest, just as he suggest one key word again, CAN suggest that the fossil record is consistent with a designer.

    So his quote was not taken out of context in that way, sorry.



    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Hitler was actually a Roman Catholic that tried to exterminate a religious group of people. Stalin was an atheist. But he did not murder millions of people in the name of atheism. I never said all atheists are good people. Like religious people, there are good ones and there are bad ones. It's just that religious murderers do it in the name of their god.
    Hitler was born Roman Catholic, but he certainly did not remain such.
    By the time Hitler was Hitler, he was indeed an athiest. And if you sit here and think these athiest did not take pride in exterminating those who had religious beliefs, you're in a dreamland. Hitler had Jehovahs witnesses killed by firing squad because they would not Denounce Jehovah. Then after awhile, he reckoned that dying by firing squad was too noble for them, they took that on the chin to well, so he starting inventing more cruel ways. The gaurds and such would always ask, where is your God now?

    If his motive was not against religion, why would he torture specific religious groups as he did?





    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Again, you are lying. I keep telling you to stop saying scientists just make stuff up, yet you continue to do so. I've also showed you the process of carbon dating. It's true, some tests will turn up false results. But that is why they have multiple independant organizations perform numerous tests from several methods on the same sample. Science does not have a motive to disprove religion. Only to learn the facts. You have a motive to disprove science. And you are the one being deceptively selective to make it seem your religion is true. Don't claim you know something when you have no idea of the process involved.
    Again, you stop lying to yourself. If you think that there are not some scientists out there trying to disprove religion, you are the most gullible son of a gun on earth.

    I don't have a motive to disprove science, I have the motive to teach religious truth. This is just a discussion based on science. Which is sometimes privy to huge untruths.

    Now you say Im being deceptively selective, but then on the other hand you say "It's true, some tests will turn up false results". So how am I being deceptive? The article I posted said the process comes under scrutiny because of it's inaccuracy. And the inaccuracies come from scientists themselves. It's not coming from religious crazies... IT'S COMING FROM SMARTER THAN THE REST OF US SCIENTISTS!!!! Read again!

    Before concluding that Bible chronology is in error, consider that radioactive dating methods have come under sharp criticism by some scientists. A scientific journal reported on studies showing that "dates determined by radioactive decay may be offónot only by a few years, but by orders of magnitude." It said: "Man, instead of having walked the earth for 3.6 million years, may have been around for only a few thousand."53

    39 For example, the radiocarbon "clock." This method of radiocarbon dating was developed over a period of two decades by scientists all over the world. It was widely acclaimed for accurate dating of artifacts from manís ancient history. But then a conference of the worldís experts, including radiochemists, archaeologists and geologists, was held in Uppsala, Sweden, to compare notes. The report of their conference showed that the fundamental assumptions on which the measurements were based had been found untrustworthy to a greater or lesser degree. For example, it found that the rate of radioactive carbon formation in the atmosphere has not been consistent in the past and that this method is not reliable in dating objects from about 2,000 B.C.E. or before

    Again, your scientists are saying that. Unless of course I am lying and decieving to twist my religion is true. Yea. That's it. But keep this in mind.

    Keep in mind that truly reliable evidence of manís activity on earth is given, not in millions of years, but in thousands. For example, in The Fate of the Earth we read: "Only six or seven thousand years ago . . . civilization emerged, enabling us to build up a human world."55


    The Last Two Million Years states:
    "In the Old World, most of the critical steps in the farming revolution were taken between 10,000 and 5000 BC." It also says: "Only for the last 5000 years has man left written records."56 The fact that the fossil record shows modern man suddenly appearing on earth, and that reliable historical records are admittedly recent, harmonizes with the Bibleís chronology for human life on earth


    But it's me lying? I'm making it up?

    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Yes, you believe what you want and I'll believe what I want. Won't it be sad though, that you've wasted your entire life worshipping something that doesn't exist. That you will have come and gone, and the world will still keep evolving for hundreds of millions of years.
    No. We don't have a hopeless viewpoint. We see the evidence of the sign of Jesus presence, for quite awhile now. And probably If I endure in service to Jehovah, in hundreds of millions of years I'll still be able to sit back and remember when people were mislead to believe man came from monkies.

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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Im trying to figure out how he was misquoted? Just because he continues to elaborate and give his opinion that the designer would be inefficient, does not mean he was misquoted. He still said,The fossil evidence could be consistent with the idea of a Great Designer







    Again, this is not a misquote. And the original text did not say this person does not believe in evolution, it quotes them because most of them DO believe in it! And it partially, or fully quotes to emphasize their point in refuting it, the same way you would use a quote to refute a point in if helps you make one.

    Jesus is a hero of mine, Carl Sagan a hero of yours. I'm not calling you a liar and such because you defend a man chasing monkies and such to make your points do I?







    Stop the lies, accept the truth. I learned a lot or truths today by accident. I learned Hitler, Stalin and a few others were athiests. I have heard some of you say that athiests would not start wars if they ran the country and such.. Yet one athiest started one of the worst wars in human history.

    Stop the lies, accept the truth. I always wondered how humans could find a relic, and decide that it's millions of years old. Faulty radiation tools. Scientists " THESE BONES ARE 17. 56769697494O4736384849374859O473947383447384738365 468736384736648368463.1928374846373837654637327828 46373 YEARS OLD! "We know this because we have a perfect tool for caculating times before mankinds provable documented history, which only dates back 5000 years! Oh wait, we thought it was perfect, but it's perfect sometimes! If it says thousands, it's wrong. If it says millions, jackpot! Good work.

    Stop the lies, accept the truth. Evolutionists say it's a fact, yet when they cannot produce the evidence it leads to propaganda and "just because we don't have it does not mean it did not happen". We're still waiting on our monkey ancestors. Every 50 years someone else digs one up and the world accepts it as our ancestors! To the point of fraud this is being done. Nice.

    End of the day, you believe what you do, as do I believe what I do. But I'll leave you with this thought. Very, very shortly, the world will be in tribulation it has never seen in human history according to the bible. Only way to be protected, is by divine favor. Won't it be a sad, sad day if you're alive to see that time, and know you had a chance to gain God's favor, but chose to be like those in Noah's day who laughed at him until it actually rained, then they wanted to run and get on the ark? What is the fossil record going to do for anyone then?

    Cheers.
    I JUST WANT TO SAY THANK YOU TO LJ...GOING THROUGH EACH ONE OF THOSE AS I DID NOT HAVE THE TIME.

    The very fact that you did not quote the entire piece only proves my point about most religious people. You quoted only the pieces that supported your argument but not the entire piece. It's CHEATING. No more no less.

    You are PURPOSELY did not quote the pieces in their entirety. And yes it does matter if you quote a whole quote, or in pieces because simply without the remaining pieces the focus of it changes what the author of it is saying.

    It's like saying "I LOVE WHITE WOMEN"...you quote that. But then don't quote the rest of it as.."I LOVE WHITE WOMEN BUT I LOVE ALL WOMEN OF ALL COLORS PERIOD"...don't sit there and lie and tell me between the two of these, that two different messages aren't being sent to the reader!!!!

    You just go SERIOUSLY EXPOSED.

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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    I'm calling you a liar because you are taking quotes out of context. You are using quotes from respected people and saying, "look these people say that the fossil record is incorrect in proving evolution", when that is completely false. They were actually refuting that conception. This is atleast a deceitful practice.



    Hitler was actually a Roman Catholic that tried to exterminate a religious group of people. Stalin was an atheist. But he did not murder millions of people in the name of atheism. I never said all atheists are good people. Like religious people, there are good ones and there are bad ones. It's just that religious murderers do it in the name of their god.



    Again, you are lying. I keep telling you to stop saying scientists just make stuff up, yet you continue to do so. I've also showed you the process of carbon dating. It's true, some tests will turn up false results. But that is why they have multiple independant organizations perform numerous tests from several methods on the same sample. Science does not have a motive to disprove religion. Only to learn the facts. You have a motive to disprove science. And you are the one being deceptively selective to make it seem your religion is true. Don't claim you know something when you have no idea of the process involved.



    Yes, you believe what you want and I'll believe what I want. Won't it be sad though, that you've wasted your entire life worshipping something that doesn't exist. That you will have come and gone, and the world will still keep evolving for hundreds of millions of years.
    You seriously exposed him...just wanted to say GOOD ON YA!!

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    Originally Posted by TunerAddict
    The time in our past where Christianity was the most followed religion, where its word was law, is also known as the Dark Ages. The worst part of human history is also the part where Christianity was the most prevalent.

    Just wanted to make sure you saw this...

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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Stop the lies, accept the truth. I learned a lot or truths today by accident. I learned Hitler, Stalin and a few others were athiests. I have heard some of you say that athiests would not start wars if they ran the country and such.. Yet one athiest started one of the worst wars in human history.

    Stop the lies, accept the truth. I always wondered how humans could find a relic, and decide that it's millions of years old. Faulty radiation tools. Scientists " THESE BONES ARE 17. 56769697494O4736384849374859O473947383447384738365 468736384736648368463.1928374846373837654637327828 46373 YEARS OLD! "We know this because we have a perfect tool for caculating times before mankinds provable documented history, which only dates back 5000 years! Oh wait, we thought it was perfect, but it's perfect sometimes! If it says thousands, it's wrong. If it says millions, jackpot! Good work.

    Stop the lies, accept the truth. Evolutionists say it's a fact, yet when they cannot produce the evidence it leads to propaganda and "just because we don't have it does not mean it did not happen". We're still waiting on our monkey ancestors. Every 50 years someone else digs one up and the world accepts it as our ancestors! To the point of fraud this is being done. Nice.

    End of the day, you believe what you do, as do I believe what I do. But I'll leave you with this thought. Very, very shortly, the world will be in tribulation it has never seen in human history according to the bible. Only way to be protected, is by divine favor. Won't it be a sad, sad day if you're alive to see that time, and know you had a chance to gain God's favor, but chose to be like those in Noah's day who laughed at him until it actually rained, then they wanted to run and get on the ark? What is the fossil record going to do for anyone then?

    Cheers.

    Lol lol lol lol lol lol. Lies? Where is your proof? Oh right, you don't have any. There is scientific evidence to evolution and everything and you say it has no proof when its level of proof far outnumbers your "proof"

    You are unreasonable. You are in denial. You cannot accept the fact that you are worthless. Your life has no meaning. When you die, there is nothing. You aren't rewarded for the good you do. You aren't. Life isn't fair, deal with it. Ignorance is bliss and before science showed what and imbecile you are, life must have been wonderful.

    Oh, and on the dating of relics, you kinda proved how ridiculous you are. Its called carbon dating. Proven method. Doesn't require anything to be made up.

    Radiocarbon dating is a [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] method that uses the naturally occurring [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (14C) to determine the age of [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] materials up to about 60,000 years.[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] Raw, i.e. uncalibrated, radiocarbon ages are usually reported in radiocarbon years "[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]" (BP), "Present" being defined as [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] 1950. Such raw ages can be calibrated to give calendar dates.
    One of the most frequent uses of radiocarbon dating is to estimate the age of organic remains from archaeological sites. When plants fix atmospheric [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (CO2) into organic material during [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] they incorporate a quantity of 14C that approximately matches the level of this isotope in the atmosphere (a small difference occurs because of [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], but this is corrected after laboratory analysis). After plants die or they are consumed by other organisms (for example, by humans or other animals) the 14C fraction of this organic material declines at a fixed [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] due to the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] of 14C. Comparing the remaining 14C fraction of a sample to that expected from atmospheric 14C allows the age of the sample to be estimated
    Its an estimation that is a rather accurate estimation.

    Grow up. You are beyond the age of childhood imagination, santa claus, the easter bunny, and your god. I almost feel sorry for you, but then I remember that its your own weakness, your inability to accept your worthlessness that leads you to cling to religion. Get over it. We aren't here for a reason, there isn't some divine purpose to life. There isn't a reason for life, it just is. Doesn't matter how life happened, it did. And you can argue all you want about how life can't come from nothing, but then you'd be forgetting that how could God come from nothing. You religous guys always leave the other side of the argument out, you leave out anything that isn't in support of your argument. Of course, they aren't really arguements, they are your lives because without these crutches you'd have no clue who you are or what to do.

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    Originally Posted by TunerAddict
    Just wanted to make sure you saw this...
    Don't forget to mention it is when scientific discovery plummeted for the first time since human civilization. The Eygptians, Greeks, Romans all advanced more than the civilization before it ...well before we got to the spread of Christianity.

    It was not until after the DARK AGES with the RENAISSANCE and AGE OF ENLIGHTENMENT....till scientific inquiry and discovery came back around. Why? Because people didn't want to offend the great book of fables during these times...

    Did you know that when kids sing the song "ring around the rosie pocket full of posies ashes to ashes we all fall down" actually means?

    Well first off "ring around the roise" is a reference red boils that would fester around one's skin..in a circle around the lower abdomen. Pestilence was the disease. Posies are flowers they would keep around to cover the stench of the rotting flesh since there was no cologne or anything. Ashes to ashes actually refers to what would happen when the body would literally decompose, and of course is a reference to death itself. It's actually a terrible song...but many of kids have sang it in kindergarten.

    Did you also know that during these times "the Jews" were blamed for the plague? Hundreds of thousands scattered around Europe as roving bans of Christians of course were killing them...because they thought it would stop the plague. Masses of people would desecrate themselves thinking this somehow was pleasing to the lord. The plaque was nothing more than an outbreak disease carried by rats and common persons. And got into the water supply which is why it spread so quickly.

    Cardinals and Bishops also sanctioned the killing of these persons...as they thought it would appease their LORD.

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    Originally Posted by TunerAddict
    Lol lol lol lol lol lol. Lies? Where is your proof? Oh right, you don't have any. There is scientific evidence to evolution and everything and you say it has no proof when its level of proof far outnumbers your "proof"

    You are unreasonable. You are in denial. You cannot accept the fact that you are worthless. Your life has no meaning. When you die, there is nothing. You aren't rewarded for the good you do. You aren't. Life isn't fair, deal with it. Ignorance is bliss and before science showed what and imbecile you are, life must have been wonderful.
    Coming from the man who thinks reality is the matrix. Great work morpheus.



    Originally Posted by TunerAddict
    Oh, and on the dating of relics, you kinda proved how ridiculous you are. Its called carbon dating. Proven method. Doesn't require anything to be made up.



    Its an estimation that is a rather accurate estimation.
    Coming from the man who says nothing can be proven many times in this thread and others. But carbon dating, which lj 4pt play and the scientists who use it say it can be inaccurate is somehow proven. Great work Neo.


    Originally Posted by TunerAddict
    Grow up. You are beyond the age of childhood imagination, santa claus, the easter bunny, and your god. I almost feel sorry for you, but then I remember that its your own weakness, your inability to accept your worthlessness that leads you to cling to religion. Get over it. We aren't here for a reason, there isn't some divine purpose to life. There isn't a reason for life, it just is. Doesn't matter how life happened, it did. And you can argue all you want about how life can't come from nothing, but then you'd be forgetting that how could God come from nothing. You religous guys always leave the other side of the argument out, you leave out anything that isn't in support of your argument. Of course, they aren't really arguements, they are your lives because without these crutches you'd have no clue who you are or what to do.
    Actually, I have listened well and even learned a lot about how these things come about. I like to learn. But just because I do not agree does mean I did not learn a thing or two.

    But then again, we're all waisting our time with you. We're not even real people. We're programs in the matirx

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    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    Don't forget to mention it is when scientific discovery plummeted for the first time since human civilization. The Eygptians, Greeks, Romans all advanced more than the civilization before it ...well before we got to the spread of Christianity.

    It was not until after the DARK AGES with the RENAISSANCE and AGE OF ENLIGHTENMENT....till scientific inquiry and discovery came back around. Why? Because people didn't want to offend the great book of fables during these times...

    Did you know that when kids sing the song "ring around the rosie pocket full of posies ashes to ashes we all fall down" actually means?

    Well first off "ring around the roise" is a reference red boils that would fester around one's skin..in a circle around the lower abdomen. Pestilence was the disease. Posies are flowers they would keep around to cover the stench of the rotting flesh since there was no cologne or anything. Ashes to ashes actually refers to what would happen when the body would literally decompose, and of course is a reference to death itself. It's actually a terrible song...but many of kids have sang it in kindergarten.

    Did you also know that during these times "the Jews" were blamed for the plague? Hundreds of thousands scattered around Europe as roving bans of Christians of course were killing them...because they thought it would stop the plague. Masses of people would desecrate themselves thinking this somehow was pleasing to the lord. The plaque was nothing more than an outbreak disease carried by rats and common persons. And got into the water supply which is why it spread so quickly.

    Cardinals and Bishops also sanctioned the killing of these persons...as they thought it would appease their LORD.
    And by Christian standards, those supposed Christians failed to live up to those standards. Just like police officers today. Protect and serve they say. But do all police actually stand for what they take an oath for? Are all police bad cops?

    We are in the age of science now. Most modern civilization in human history. How come these scientists can't cure aids? Chasing monkies too much. How come these scientists can't cure cancer? Fascinated with Monkies.

    There is an aids epidemic in Africa. The men in Africa believe that if they sleep with a virgin, they will be cured of aids. Why are scientists not telling them that is simply not true? Why is this not being stopped? Why do people live in fear of a nuclear holocaust?

    Wait an even better question. Why if science is for the betterment of mankind are there even things such as nuclear weapons?

    Jehovah, the God of peace>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cant make enough of these>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> Imperfect mankind who chases monkey men and missing links, and build weapons of mass destruction.

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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Hitler had Jehovahs witnesses killed by firing squad because they would not Denounce Jehovah.
    Well, the main idea of the nazis wasn't atheism but revamping pagan Germanic religion. Of course there are both, good and bad atheists and Christians and that is why I am a supporter of Humanism: trying to lead a responsible life without expecting any reward in an afterlife.

    Jehova -- by the way -- is a false pronunciation. The God of the Old Testament is actually called "Jahweh". However, you are not allowed to say the word. That is why he is normally called Elohim or Adonei. That what I always found partucularly strange about Jehovah's witness. They take the bible as if it were verbally inspired, yet, they disregard one of the main principles of the Judeo-Christian tradition.

    As far as the second coming is concerned, it was announced so many times and up to know nothing has happened. The idea of a parousia soon to come will never vanish, however, it is on the wane ever since the 3rd century AD. And why?: Because after three generations people became sick and tired of waiting.

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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    And by Christian standards, those supposed Christians failed to live up to those standards. Just like police officers today. Protect and serve they say. But do all police actually stand for what they take an oath for? Are all police bad cops?

    We are in the age of science now. Most modern civilization in human history. How come these scientists can't cure aids? Chasing monkies too much. How come these scientists can't cure cancer? Fascinated with Monkies.

    There is an aids epidemic in Africa. The men in Africa believe that if they sleep with a virgin, they will be cured of aids. Why are scientists not telling them that is simply not true? Why is this not being stopped? Why do people live in fear of a nuclear holocaust?

    Wait an even better question. Why if science is for the betterment of mankind are there even things such as nuclear weapons?

    Jehovah, the God of peace>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cant make enough of these>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> Imperfect mankind who chases monkey men and missing links, and build weapons of mass destruction.
    When will religion stop producing FANATICS?

    AIDS and Cancers are hard to cure. First off, viruses one never cures. You can encapsulate them, which essentially is isolating them from doing further damage to the surrounding tissues and cells...but you never quite "cure" it in the sense that it's gone from the body. But you can make it to wear, it's not harming the body. Some cancers are genetic in which case you people are getting in the way in regards to stem cell and embryonic research...arguing that cells...that AREN'T ALIVE by the way...are life as birthed humans are. If we didn't have you folks around..and America went back to leading the world in scientific discovery...we would've accomplished this already.

    The thing about men in Africa having sex with virgins as a cure to AIDS..comes from...big guess..RELIGION. Would you like to know why?

    The myth of the Virgin Cure has a rich and culturally diverse history stretching back to 16th century Europe, and more prominently to be found in 19th century Victorian England, where, in spite of the emphasis on morality, rectitude and family values, there existed a widespread belief, that sexual intercourse with a virgin was a cure for syphilis, gonnorhea, [and other STD's]. Syphilis, like HIV/Aids, was fatal in its terminal stages.

    Asking about nuclear weapons being for the betterment of society is just like asking why do we have sharp objects? Fire? Gasoline? Guns? Knives? Clubs? Baseball bats? Swords? etc...

    Stop with the stupid straw man arguments.

    IF RELIGION IS FOR THE BETTERMENT OF SOCIETY, how come when people disagree over it other folks have to do for it? How come the believer of GOD A don't go fight directly with the believers of GOD B?

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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Coming from the man who says nothing can be proven many times in this thread and others. But carbon dating, which lj 4pt play and the scientists who use it say it can be inaccurate is somehow proven. Great work Neo.
    Dammit! You have a bad habit of quoting people out of context.

    I said carbon dating can produce false results, but later went to explain why the final results are accurate. For example, if 3 independant organizations perform 8 different methods of carbon dating on 1 sample, there would be 24 results. 1 or 2 of the findings may produce a false result of 1,000 years old but the majority (22 out of 24) produce an accurate result of 50 million years old.

    Are you purposely being so dishonest or are you selectively reading the parts that you like?

    It's like the Carl Sagan example. If he says, "the fossil record could be consistent with a designer, but it's not". You choose to say "Carl Sagan said the fossil record could be consistent with a designer". That is being dishonest. I thought the bible was supposed to teach you morals.

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    Originally Posted by pat
    Well, the main idea of the nazis wasn't atheism but revamping pagan Germanic religion. Of course there are both, good and bad atheists and Christians and that is why I am a supporter of Humanism: trying to lead a responsible life without expecting any reward in an afterlife..
    I never said it was their main Idea, I just said that it was definitely a feather in the cap when they pursecuted religious faiths is all. These guys say them being athiests does not make a ruler hostile vs religion, which Hitler has proven them wrong is all.

    Originally Posted by pat
    Jehova -- by the way -- is a false pronunciation. The God of the Old Testament is actually called "Jahweh". However, you are not allowed to say the word. That is why he is normally called Elohim or Adonei. That what I always found partucularly strange about Jehovah's witness. They take the bible as if it were verbally inspired, yet, they disregard one of the main principles of the Judeo-Christian tradition.
    Maybe you have not taken the time to fully understand the point of view. Many people do not. But I will brifly enlighten you.

    The
    Divine NameóIts Use and Its Meaning

    IN YOUR copy of the Bible, how is Psalm 83:18 translated? The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures renders this verse: "That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." A number of other Bible translations give similar renderings. However, many translations leave out the name Jehovah, replacing it with such titles as "Lord" or "Eternal." What belongs in this verse? A title or the name Jehovah?

    This verse speaks about a name. In the original Hebrew in which much of the Bible was written, a unique personal name appears here. It is spelled יהוה (YHWH) in Hebrew letters. In English, the common rendering of that name is "Jehovah." Does that name occur in only one Bible verse? No. It appears in the original text of the Hebrew Scriptures nearly 7,000 times!
    How important is Godís name? Consider the model prayer that Jesus Christ gave. It begins this way: "Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified." (Matthew 6:9) Later, Jesus prayed to God: "Father, glorify your name." In response, God spoke from heaven, saying: "I both glorified it and will glorify it again." (John 12:28) Clearly, Godís name is of the utmost importance. Why, then, have some translators left this name out of their translations of the Bible and replaced it with titles?

    There seem to be two main reasons. First, many claim that the name should not be used because the original way to pronounce it is unknown today. Ancient Hebrew was written without vowels. Therefore, no one today can say for sure exactly how people of Bible times pronounced YHWH. However, should this prevent us from using Godís name? In Bible times, the name Jesus may have been pronounced Yeshua or possibly Yehoshuaóno one can say for certain. Yet, people the world over today use different forms of the name Jesus, pronouncing it in the way that is common in their language. They do not hesitate to use the name just because they do not know its first-century pronunciation. Similarly, if you were to travel to a foreign land, you might well find that your own name sounds quite different in another tongue. Hence, uncertainty about the ancient pronunciation of Godís name is no reason for not using it.

    A second reason often given for omitting Godís name from the Bible involves a long-standing tradition of the Jews. Many of them hold that Godís name should never be pronounced. This belief is evidently based on a misapplication of a Bible law that states: "You must not take up the name of Jehovah your God in a worthless way, for Jehovah will not leave the one unpunished who takes up his name in a worthless way."óExodus 20:7.
    This law forbids the misuse of Godís name. But does it forbid the respectful use of his name? Not at all. The writers of the Hebrew Bible (the "Old Testament") were all faithful men who lived by the Law that God gave to the ancient Israelites. Yet, they made frequent use of Godís name. For instance, they included it in many psalms that were sung out loud by crowds of worshipers. Jehovah God even instructed his worshipers to call upon his name, and faithful ones obeyed. (Joel 2:32; Acts 2:21) Hence, Christians today do not hesitate to use Godís name respectfully, as Jesus surely did.óJohn 17:26.

    In replacing Godís name with titles, Bible translators make a serious mistake. They make God seem remote and impersonal, whereas the Bible urges humans to cultivate "intimacy with Jehovah." (Psalm 25:14) Think of an intimate friend of yours. How close would you really be if you never learned your friendís name? Similarly, when people are kept in ignorance about Godís name, Jehovah, how can they become truly close to God? Furthermore, when people do not use Godís name, they also lack knowledge of its wonderful meaning. What does the divine name mean?
    God himself explained the meaning of his name to his faithful servant Moses. When Moses asked about Godís name, Jehovah replied: "I shall prove to be what I shall prove to be." (Exodus 3:14) Rotherhamís translation renders those words: "I Will Become whatsoever I please." So Jehovah can become whatever is needed in order to fulfill his purposes.

    Suppose that you could become whatever you wanted to become. What would you do for your friends? If one of them became seriously ill, you could become a skilled doctor and perform a cure. If another suffered a financial loss, you could become a wealthy benefactor and come to his rescue. The truth is, though, that you are limited in what you can become. All of us are. As you study the Bible, you will be amazed to see how Jehovah becomes whatever is needed in order to fulfill his promises. And it pleases him to use his power in behalf of those who love him. (2 Chronicles 16:9) These beautiful facets of Jehovahís personality are lost to those who do not know his name.

    Clearly, the name Jehovah belongs in the Bible. Knowing its meaning and using it freely in our worship are powerful aids in drawing closer to our heavenly Father, Jehovah.





    Originally Posted by pat
    As far as the second coming is concerned, it was announced so many times and up to know nothing has happened. The idea of a parousia soon to come will never vanish, however, it is on the wane ever since the 3rd century AD. And why?: Because after three generations people became sick and tired of waiting.
    The second has arrived for quite awhile now. I don't blame you for not seeing it, as most people in the world expect Jesus to come in the clouds tor apture the saints. But Jesus gave a sign in mathew 24:3 that would signal his presence in heaven as King, ON EARTH. So his earthly followers would know he was King by matters taking place on earth. Also, by using bible chronology, the exact year this took place had been determined in the late 1800's. But that is deep detail, probably one you're not nearly concerned with.

    Point is, we are living in the time of the end based on mathew 24:3 and world events unfolding, and bible chronology.

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    Loo
    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Dammit! You have a bad habit of quoting people out of context.

    I said carbon dating can produce false results, but later went to explain why the final results are accurate. For example, if 3 independant organizations perform 8 different methods of carbon dating on 1 sample, there would be 24 results. 1 or 2 of the findings may produce a false result of 1,000 years old but the majority (22 out of 24) produce an accurate result of 50 million years old.

    Are you purposely being so dishonest or are you selectively reading the parts that you like?

    It's like the Carl Sagan example. If he says, "the fossil record could be consistent with a designer, but it's not". You choose to say "Carl Sagan said the fossil record could be consistent with a designer". That is being dishonest. I thought the bible was supposed to teach you morals.
    If it can be faulty, but then proven accurate, how was it ever faulty? So either it's a perfectly flawless system, or it's faulty. There is no inbetween system. There is no wrong now, but right later. It's either or.

    Look guy, if the scientists who use this stuff say it is irregular, why should I take your word for it? How can something that can produce a wrong reading, ever truly be accurate? Think about what your saying. Geez.

    You go right ahead and put your trust in the carbon dating bro. Nothing stopping you. Me, for my lot, there is no way I can trust carbon dating when it has provided faulty results at times, coupling that with the fact it is producing a timeframe where there is not valid proof man even existed, and there has only been written history dating back 5000 years of modern man.

    What tells me to believe a faulty machine under those circumstances? That's like playing lotto. I don't care how much you believe you know about it, if it can be faulty, it can never be fully trusted. End of story.

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    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    When will religion stop producing FANATICS??
    What war has Jehovah's witnesses started, or supported? What politician has Jehovah's witnesses ever help gain office?

    When you say religious fanatics, speak outside of that one. No part of the world are Jehovah's witnesses.

    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    AIDS and Cancers are hard to cure. First off, viruses one never cures. You can encapsulate them, which essentially is isolating them from doing further damage to the surrounding tissues and cells...but you never quite "cure" it in the sense that it's gone from the body. But you can make it to wear, it's not harming the body. Some cancers are genetic in which case you people are getting in the way in regards to stem cell and embryonic research...arguing that cells...that AREN'T ALIVE by the way...are life as birthed humans are. If we didn't have you folks around..and America went back to leading the world in scientific discovery...we would've accomplished this already.
    So you're saying because religion exists, science can't reach it's pinnacle? All america would need, a country founded on religion I might add, is to get rid of all religious influence to get back to scientific dominance? Keep dreaming.

    And why can't you cure it? Jesus did. They did not wear it.. they were relieved of it, totally. Oh my bad, he never existed. But Monkey men did!



    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    Asking about nuclear weapons being for the betterment of society is just like asking why do we have sharp objects? Fire? Gasoline? Guns? Knives? Clubs? Baseball bats? Swords? etc...

    Stop with the stupid straw man arguments.

    IF RELIGION IS FOR THE BETTERMENT OF SOCIETY, how come when people disagree over it other folks have to do for it? How come the believer of GOD A don't go fight directly with the believers of GOD B?
    I see. If scientists are strictly for the betterment of mankind, there would not be one single nuclear warhead. Not even one. That would be for the betterment of mankind. But scientists are constantly involved in all the weaponry of today, not just warheads. So while they make great advancements in science that do help mankind, they also play a part in why mankind lives in fear all over the world.

    And about religion being for the betterment of mankind, I will repeat this.
    What war has Jehovah's witnesses started, or supported? What politician has Jehovah's witnesses ever help gain office?

    When you say religious fanatics, speak outside of that one. No part of the world are Jehovah's witnesses.

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