But is it realistic to think that modern man could do in 5000 years what our supposed ancestors could not in hundreds of thousands of years of existence? Smart enough to make tools supposedly, but not smart enough to leave accurate written records like modern man started to 5000 years ago? The only accurate renderings of such in human history mind you?
How much more naive is that in comparison?
But wait a second. I forget who I am speaking to. The Oracle.
And no, if nothing is real then I have no way of refuting what you say. Why? Because most of us feel there is reality. You are telling me my life, my children being born, the war, the state of the world, all of these things... Are not real.
To tell you the truth, I don't even wanna begin to try and understand that, or refute it. That philosophy is beyond comprehension IMO. So feel as if you won some sort of debate or moral victory because no one can understand what you speak of. (I am not alone in this, as no one else has tried to refute it, why? cuz it sounds crazy)
Also, I never said that nothing was real. I said there is no way of knowing. My philosophical statement were never at what IS, but what MIGHT be. MY statements were all to the idea that we can never be certain as nothing can be fully proven. I don't think we are in the Matrix, its just that its a possibility that we cannot rule out.
Crazy? Once again, your arrogance shows. Who are you to decide what crazy is? Crazy is a relative term that is different to each individual. Just because you see something as "crazy" does not make it so to others.
It is my view that some folks will just never understand the level of science involved when it comes to evolution, evolutionary anthropology, genetics, biology, cell structure, microbiology, etc. It is far easier for them to place their heads in the sand...and take comfort in the "good" book. Hardly seems, noteworthy to call such a book that demeans intelligence as a "good" book.
But you ever notice that religion does NOT, nor has it ever encouraged ENLIGHTENMENT, it does however encourage SALVATION. I'm not going to sit here and define each one..but salvation has nothing to do with gaining enlightenment nothing at all. Salvation is strictly about forgiveness of sin..no more no less.
Buddhism is not a religion...there is no dogma...it encourages seeking enlightenment which is akin to knowledge, reasoning, understanding.
Christianity in all it's SECTS, Judaism, and Hinduism, Islam etc...encourages what? Salvation..to be saved from sin. It even abdicates that knowledge is troublesome...why? Because those who wrote this book of lies to coerce were much smarter than the morons they convinced in that..when one knows the truth of how the machine works..it's much harder to convince them it works because it just always has.
Religion might as well borrow from the NIKE slogan of "JUST BELIEVE IT". Because simply they have no substantial evidence to validate their claims in a GOD. And this is exactly why cultural attitudes are turning against faith..because human beings are evolving to the point where these fairytales are no longer becoming necessary in a real sense. Sure they give insight on more primitive people's and culture's...even the nature of storytelling and use of language. But as far as the ideas and moralities are contained within..they are meager.
Religion has made the following claims;
There is a GOD
Human creation was spawned from two individuals SOLELY
GOD killed everyone in a flood including some innocents who missed the boat. And human life again started over with 8 people on that boat.
You live spiritually after you die
God had to assume human form, then kill himself in order to forgive all sins past and present rather than just in a booming voice state "I FORGIVE Y'ALL"
If you believe Jesus to be the reincarnation of GOD, then how do you explain the need for GOD to question himself around the Jews in the temple? Why would he need to die? God just let people abuse him? Kill him?
They assert that Jesus' physical body went up to heaven without the aid of oxygen or a radiation suit
They assert the dead can live again
They assert there is a DEVIL which GOD created but can never seem to manage to stop from causing humans harm, yet refute the notion that he actually works for GOD..sort of like Judas having to betray Jesus even though he was just following orders if you follow the story
That eating shellfish is a sin
That raping and the killing of the Moabites is righteous
That Abraham passing off his wife as his sister was a good thing..infront of two different Kings
That Lot having sex with his two daughters was understandable
That the earth is the center of the universe, and the SUN revolves around the Earth
That David made the earth literally stand still...even though if that actually happened Earth would've went crashing into the Sun
That there was an actual ark...
That angels actual servers of GOD slept with human women and created Giants
That there was an actual tower of babel going into heaven that GOD knocked own..even though the Mayan and Egyptians built several close temples/pyramids in which one could walk up..but these are still standing till today
That GOD would rape a man's wife..in order to birth himself...rather than possess someone as the DEVIL clearly can...
The amount of crap that one has to believe this absurdity to drink this all in is enormous, and only further proves that the further mankind gets away from religion. The better off and safer society shall be.
It's scary though. The religious are the ones having too many kids. Which, in turn, they brainwash their kids and religion spreads. While freethinkers usually limit the number of children they have. It's almost mental de-evolution. This is happening in America today, with the nuts trying to take evolution out of schools and replace it with intelligent design along with many other far-right christian conservative "values". At least other countries are beginning to realize the truth. Most of Europe is wondering what the hell is going on over here.
"The Knicks are back" - Amare
But really, Evolution has evidence to support its teaching. Its part of the science curriculum. What does ID fall into? It isn't science. There isn't scientific evidence to back it up, thus it being taught would be absurd.
When talking of ID, I love to bring up my god, FSM. You're all fools. FSM created us, not your god. Jeez...
Again, a lot of what you speak of concerning the bible is false reasoning. I have to say you are choosing to abie in it because I have said rfepeatedly that some of what you believe about the bible is a lie.
This is the last time I will try and clear this up for you.
The bible does enlighten people if the truth about it is being told. Why people suffer, why God allows it, why the devil and not God actually rules the world, what God plans to do rectify it all. You don't have these answers, so clearly if you learned them, you would then be enlightened. Geez.
Jesus made no bones about who he is. God's first born created being.
God built the ark big enough to inhabit all the people of Noah's time in the ark. They chose not to Go because they were wicked and did not wanna put faith that God would make it rain. Their bad, not Gods.
No man has ever seen God. Surely then they did not kill him.
Habbakuk 1:12 Are you not from long ago, O Jehovah? O my God, my Holy One, you do not die.
If that was Jehovah on the stake, this would be a lie. God cannot die.
But how exactly that comes about remains a mystery.
Judas chose to betray Jesus. He could have said no Lord, I changed my mind. Instead he left and did what was in his heart, because he did not truly believe. His choice, not God making him. PLUS! He could have repented. Instead he tried to give the money back, showing that his allegiance was to men and not God. Had he went to Jehovah in earnest prayer for forgiveness, it would have been granted, in spite of everything he did.
What you guys don't get is that God has only allowed this all to come about to prove that he is the only one who can rightfully rule mankind. Satan was the first one to say that mankind would be better off without him in the Garden to Adam and Eve. The fact that you are saying mankind would be better off without him gives a witness to him as to which side you stand on.
And if you believe the fallacy of evolution, then you cannot ever come to know God and that is Just what Satan wants. Those who don't know God when they have the opportunity are his enemies... And they will scatter during the day of his Judgement.
Last edited by Knicks4lyfe; Jul 29, 2008 at 20:44.
If you walk into a classroom and want to teach Intelligent Design as an alternate scientific theory..what evidence shall you present? What fact finding evidence do you have to prove there was creator behind the design other than an assumption by one's faith?
Evolution is not a religious teaching. Where do you people come up with this ****? Is anatomy as well a religion admonished by doctors? Are quantum mechanics a religion prayed to by physicists?
EVOLUTION IS NOT A BELIEF IT'S A FACT. FOR THE LAST TIME FACTS REQUIRE EVIDENCE.
INTELLIGENT DESIGN HAS NOTHING OTHER THAN FAITH.
That's mightily presumptive of you to claim that your specific Christian sect is superior to the others. I''m sure the Catholics, Lutherans, Baptists, Mormons, Seventh Day Aventists, Methodists, and Anglicans would like to have a word with you uppidy Jehovah Witness folks. This just further resonates with my claim that religion is/always will be inferior. And yes Jehovah's witnesses are a SECT of CHRISTIANITY.
I'm getting really sick of your limited thinking on this issue. Let's see what [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] has to say about what you have just proposed as to the reasoning behind the points I've already made.
1.) Why does God allow innocent people to suffer?
Answer: Tis is a real difficulty, but atheism is certainly not the answer, and neither is agnosticism. While there is much evil in the world, there is even more that is good. This is proved by the mere fact that people normally try to hang on to life as long as they can. Furthermore, everyone instinctively recognizes that "good" is a higher order of truth than "bad".
We need also to recognize that our very minds were created by God. We can only use these minds to the extent that He allows, and it is, therefore, utterly presumptuous for us to use them to question Him and His motives.
How is this a ****ing answer to the question again? It's an assumption on why humans suffer, it is not an answer. What about people who commit suicide because they feel they have suffered enough or too much? God certainly is not getting there in time to either save them, or stop them from having those thought completely. Nor is he actually giving them their life back after committing the suicide in the first place. Once again another apolgist answer for the shortcummings of GOD.
They also go on to state that babies...and the mentally challenged are sinners as well.
Their quote: As far as babies are concerned, and others who may be incompetent mentally to distinguish right and wrong, it is clear from both Scripture and universal experience that they are sinners by nature and thus will inevitably become sinners by choice as soon as they are able to do so.
So let me get this straight. A rational loving GOD is going to hold a baby or mentally challenged person to the same standard of sins even though he designed them with no capacity to understand right and wrong in the first place? This is exactly why religion is idiocy on a massive level.
I really don't need to go through the rest of the question as this faulty logic flows through your entire statement. Your GOD holds accountable those he designed, created, and let come onto this earth with no understanding at all of "good" or "evil". He is going to judge them the same way eventhough he is fully aware of the conditions he placed on them in the first place. Not only is this requirement on babies who clearly have on knowledge of anything...but also those born with learning disabilities?
Once again your GOD is a cruel sick **** from which there is no escape from his insanity.
2.) What evidence do you have there is a GOD? What hard evidence other than scriptures or your deep belief. When I hear a tree come out and speak to me that GOD created it...I will believe you until that time nature is not an answer.
3.) You believe human creation was spawned by 2 individuals. So it also stands to reason that to you and your kind believe INCEST is perfectly natural and even moral. I'm not even going to go into what this states about your sense of morality, which is blatanly corrupted and sickening.
4.) People chose not to save themselves when they knew they were about to drown because they knew they were wicked? So I tell you a flood is coming...everything is about to be wiped out...and you stay on the ground for moral reasons? That is such lame bull****. You'd hope your ass on the boat, and if GOD didn't kill you..you'd then be telling me you getting on the boat was GOD's way of forgiving you and pushing you to lead a better life...rather than just simply saving your own ass.
5.) You believe that after you are pronouced dead. That something inside of you keeps on living. Your soul...how long does it take a soul to get to heaven by the way?
6.) You just contradicited yourself. If GOD cannot die, then that means Jesus did NOT nor COULD not have died on the cross for anyone's sins. You really are this mentally challeneged, aren't you? Now you said in the post above that GOD is 1. Not 3, but 1. Now you'd then have to believe that GOD assumed human form through Jesus. So If GOD cannot die..and Jesus is really GOD in disguise. That then has to mean...that he did not die on the cross...which means through Jesus there was/is NO salvation whatsoever. That means no sins we're ever forgiven...that means no sins will be forgiven...simply because GOD in fact as you stated DID NOT DIE. That means the entire time he was walking around talking about how he had to die...HE WAS LYING out of his ass. Because after all, HE didn't die. Which then means there was no assention into the heavens.
7.) Raising bodies from the dead? Alright assuming that is true for the moment...how could Jesus have possibly died. It would stand that a GOD that can't die..would be invulnerable to TORTURE and DEATH as well. But if you believe he bleed, and died...then that means it wasn't GOD...was just some guy.
8.) God created a perfect angel with free will, yet got pissed off when he decided to take his thunder? So GOD in all his glory didn't see this coming? Or better yet...perhaps he made him so he could turn against him...because without there being a fallen angel..there could be no snake to manipulate Adam and Eve which would completely **** up the story. After all, if there is no snake there to tell them to eat the fruit..then they don't eat it..then man is perfect. Then there is no need ever for GOD to assume human form transform into Jesus and forgive sins. You people have no brains when it comes to storytelling do you.
9.) Now why would a great, good, loving GOD allow for a harmful, evil, demon to rule over the earth if he wasn't truly doing GOD's good dirty work?
10.) Judas did not choose to betray Jesus. He had no choice. If he would not have betrayed Jesus your story get's ****ed up. Because then Jesus by not being ratted out by Judas goes off and does whatever. He doesn't get caputred by the Jews or Romans..and there is then no dying on the cross..which means no salvation through Christ. Once again you folks have no brains for storytelling...the right way.
11.) Rape in the Bible...Judges 21:10-24 NLT
So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan.
The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. But there were not enough women for all of them. The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel. So the Israelite leaders asked, "How can we find wives for the few who remain, since all the women of the tribe of Benjamin are dead? There must be heirs for the survivors so that an entire tribe of Israel will not be lost forever. But we cannot give them our own daughters in marriage because we have sworn with a solemn oath that anyone who does this will fall under God's curse."
Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem. They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, "Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, 'Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn't find enough wives for them when we destroyed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.'" So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them. So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes.
Rape in the Bible Numbers 31:7-18 NLT
They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings - Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba - died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.
Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.
Rape in the Bible...Deuteronomy 20:10-14
As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.
Rape in the Bible...Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.
What kind of lunatic would make a rape victim marry her attacker?
Rape in the Bible...Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB
If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.
It is clear that God doesn't give a damn about the rape victim. He is only concerned about the violation of another mans "property".
Rape in the Bible...Samuel 12:11-14 NAB
Thus says the Lord: 'I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.'
Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord." Nathan answered David: "The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die." [The child dies seven days later.]
This has got to be one of the sickest quotes of the Bible. God himself brings the completely innocent rape victims to the rapist. What kind of pathetic loser would do something so evil? And then he kills a child! This is sick, really sick!
Rape in the Bible...Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB
When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion."
Once again God approves of forcible rape.
Rape in the Bible....Judges 5:30 NAB
They must be dividing the spoils they took: there must be a damsel or two for each man, Spoils of dyed cloth as Sisera's spoil, an ornate shawl or two for me in the spoil.
Rape in the Bible...Exodus 21:7-11 NLT
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.
Rape in the Bible....Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB
Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city.
12.) You know in this day and age...if a father of two daughters got drunk and had sex with them...and then claimed he was too drunk to know it was his daughters. He would be considered a pedophile as LOT was...you know that right? He was too drunk. Once again another religious apologist point of view.
13.) Holy Spirit...impregnated Mary? Wasn't Joseph already married to her? Or just plain with her before GOD decided he wanted to tap that ass?