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Thread: Explaining Evolution And Why GOD is NOT LIKELY

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    Default Evolution and Big Bang has an Atheism influence.

    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    It doesn't belong in the classroom at all. ID is not an "alternative theory" it is creationism with a new name, no more no less. Stop with this nonsense about Christians being attacked. They are being refuted.

    If you walk into a classroom and want to teach Intelligent Design as an alternate scientific theory..what evidence shall you present? What fact finding evidence do you have to prove there was creator behind the design other than an assumption by one's faith?

    Evolution is not a religious teaching. Where do you people come up with this ****? Is anatomy as well a religion admonished by doctors? Are quantum mechanics a religion prayed to by physicists?

    EVOLUTION IS NOT A BELIEF IT'S A FACT. FOR THE LAST TIME FACTS REQUIRE EVIDENCE.

    INTELLIGENT DESIGN HAS NOTHING OTHER THAN FAITH.
    The teachings of Evolution and the Big Bang are guesses by scientist that would make someone be influenced to be an Atheist or Agnostic, that is teaching belief. Teachers that arent Christian were fired for just bringing up the word Intelligent Design, if you dont beleive me see Ben Stein's documentary. There's something obviously wrong there, that isnt freedom in anyway. In the documentary there were former college professors talking about Intelligent Design so if they have proof let them present it, but simply bringing it up in a classroom is not teaching Nazism, the school just fired them on the spot. It's ridiculous. And saying Evolution is a fact is like saying Buddism follows the word of Jesus. If it was a fact then everyone would follow it and it would never be questioned. Evolution is a teaching of how Atheist scientist think the world began. If you think this isnt part of a belief you are blind. And it shouldnt be taught in schools just like Intelligent Design shouldnt. And if you agree that Evolution should be taught than for the freedom of speech, you should allow Intelligent design to be taught...its one way or the other. Saying to a 6th grade science class that the world is billions of years old is Atheism and Agnostic influence you can deny that, it has an affect on your belief to become an Atheist. And there isnt enough proof to consider a fact by all people. If religion and schol should be sperated than teachings such as the Big Bang and Evolution should be seperated from schools because the bottom line is that it has an influence on a person's belief.

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    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    The teachings of Evolution and the Big Bang are guesses by scientist that would make someone be influenced to be an Atheist or Agnostic, that is teaching belief. Teachers that arent Christian were fired for just bringing up the word Intelligent Design, if you dont beleive me see Ben Stein's documentary. There's something obviously wrong there, that isnt freedom in anyway. In the documentary there were former college professors talking about Intelligent Design so if they have proof let them present it, but simply bringing it up in a classroom is not teaching Nazism, the school just fired them on the spot. It's ridiculous. And saying Evolution is a fact is like saying Buddism follows the word of Jesus. If it was a fact then everyone would follow it and it would never be questioned. Evolution is a teaching of how Atheist scientist think the world began. If you think this isnt part of a belief you are blind. And it shouldnt be taught in schools just like Intelligent Design shouldnt. And if you agree that Evolution should be taught than for the freedom of speech, you should allow Intelligent design to be taught...its one way or the other. Saying to a 6th grade science class that the world is billions of years old is Atheism and Agnostic influence you can deny that, it has an affect on your belief to become an Atheist. And there isnt enough proof to consider a fact by all people. If religion and schol should be sperated than teachings such as the Big Bang and Evolution should be seperated from schools because the bottom line is that it has an influence on a person's belief.
    There is so much wrong with that statement I don't even have the time right now to rip it apart I've got a 10am...

    I'll take care of this when i break for lunch tomorrow.

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    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    That's mightily presumptive of you to claim that your specific Christian sect is superior to the others. I''m sure the Catholics, Lutherans, Baptists, Mormons, Seventh Day Aventists, Methodists, and Anglicans would like to have a word with you uppidy Jehovah Witness folks. This just further resonates with my claim that religion is/always will be inferior. And yes Jehovah's witnesses are a SECT of CHRISTIANITY.
    LOL, they'll tell you we're a cult and we're stupid and changed the bible and don't believe in Jesus.

    But one thing we are not is uppidy. If we were, we'd be more in the lime light. Instead, we take the backseat humbly waiting for Jehovah to magnify himself shortly.

    But you did get one thing right, we are Christians. And we don't say it to just say it. The bible has a strict criteria for what a true Christian is. Anyone can be one if they followed those guidlines. But most Christian faiths find reasons not too. Not Jehovah's witnesses though. I have explained this to you numerous times. I think you just don't like to pay attention. You only like to hear yourself talk, because you keep saying the same things over and over, and I keep telling why we are different.

    I'll try again. Maybe you will actually pay attention.


    I'm getting really sick of your limited thinking on this issue. Let's see what [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] has to say about what you have just proposed as to the reasoning behind the points I've already made.

    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    1.) Why does God allow innocent people to suffer?

    Answer: Tis is a real difficulty, but atheism is certainly not the answer, and neither is agnosticism. While there is much evil in the world, there is even more that is good. This is proved by the mere fact that people normally try to hang on to life as long as they can. Furthermore, everyone instinctively recognizes that "good" is a higher order of truth than "bad".

    We need also to recognize that our very minds were created by God. We can only use these minds to the extent that He allows, and it is, therefore, utterly presumptuous for us to use them to question Him and His motives.

    How is this a ****ing answer to the question again? It's an assumption on why humans suffer, it is not an answer. What about people who commit suicide because they feel they have suffered enough or too much? God certainly is not getting there in time to either save them, or stop them from having those thought completely. Nor is he actually giving them their life back after committing the suicide in the first place. Once again another apolgist answer for the shortcummings of GOD.
    I agree with you. How is that an answer? Do you know why they can't answer you sensibly? Because they do not recognize a simple Bible doctrine. THE ISSUE OF UNIVERSAL SOVERIEGNTY.

    But here is the thing, I believe in this very thread, I posted a separate post, just for you on what this is and what it means for mankind. In fact, I just researched it and found it on page 9. This was posted just a week ago. It is the 6th post and its even entitled, why does God allow suffering. And it gives much finer reference than the one you just posted. In fact, it puts what you posted to shame as far as reasoning goes. READ IT THIS TIME! IT ANSWERS EVERY QUESTION YOU HAVE ABOUT IT. [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    They also go on to state that babies...and the mentally challenged are sinners as well.

    Their quote: As far as babies are concerned, and others who may be incompetent mentally to distinguish right and wrong, it is clear from both Scripture and universal experience that they are sinners by nature and thus will inevitably become sinners by choice as soon as they are able to do so.

    So let me get this straight. A rational loving GOD is going to hold a baby or mentally challenged person to the same standard of sins even though he designed them with no capacity to understand right and wrong in the first place? This is exactly why religion is idiocy on a massive level.

    I really don't need to go through the rest of the question as this faulty logic flows through your entire statement. Your GOD holds accountable those he designed, created, and let come onto this earth with no understanding at all of "good" or "evil". He is going to judge them the same way eventhough he is fully aware of the conditions he placed on them in the first place. Not only is this requirement on babies who clearly have on knowledge of anything...but also those born with learning disabilities?

    Once again your GOD is a cruel sick **** from which there is no escape from his insanity.
    Babies and mentally challenged people are born from sinners , are they not? So then you will not need logic to tell you they are just as imperfect.

    However, there is not scripture in the bible that supports infant baptism, and baptism is the outward symbol that you have dedicated your life to God. Reason being is quite simple, infants cannot rightuflly serve God in the way he requires. They need to be of the age of sound reason and understanding for them, which could vary. But they cannot be baptized or expected to do God's will without understanding what it means. So no, he does not hold that against infants in that way. Anyone telling you otherwise has not researched the scriptures well enough.

    However, the parents of the infants, and depending on how mentally challenged are responsible as far as God goes for bringing their children up to know God. Until they reach approriate age to where they can fully understand what it takes themselves. If one is mentally disabled to the point of not ever in life being able to serve God, then I am sure Jehovah will use reason as far as the ressurection is concerned for those people.

    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    2.) What evidence do you have there is a GOD? What hard evidence other than scriptures or your deep belief. When I hear a tree come out and speak to me that GOD created it...I will believe you until that time nature is not an answer.
    You see the evidence of God everyday you wake up. You choose to take it as evolution. That said, I cannot see how u can ignore the outstanding bible prophecy as pish posh as you do.

    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    3.) You believe human creation was spawned by 2 individuals. So it also stands to reason that to you and your kind believe INCEST is perfectly natural and even moral. I'm not even going to go into what this states about your sense of morality, which is blatanly corrupted and sickening.
    I try my best to live a morally clean life to please God everyday. Abstain from fornication, covetousness, lying, stealing, etc. Why? Because Jehovah plans to have the earth filled with people who willingly serve him. By living the way Jehovah's witnesses do, we give a witness that Jehovah is who we serve. And the cool part is, he is gracious to those who fall short so long as they repent and practice living according to his will, and not our own, which would be to practice fornication, lie, covet, stuff that some people do without thinking about it.

    And lemme ask you. Why do you even have a sense of morality? How does evolution account for that?

    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    4.) People chose not to save themselves when they knew they were about to drown because they knew they were wicked? So I tell you a flood is coming...everything is about to be wiped out...and you stay on the ground for moral reasons? That is such lame bull****. You'd hope your ass on the boat, and if GOD didn't kill you..you'd then be telling me you getting on the boat was GOD's way of forgiving you and pushing you to lead a better life...rather than just simply saving your own ass..
    Well lets take into account what Jesus said in Luke once. Jesus said the time of the end would be like Noahs day. Men were marrying, partying, having a good time, and took no notice, til the flood came and wiped them all out. Then when it rained they all wanted to get on the ark. But it was locked.

    Jehovah's witnesses have been preaching the time of the end now for quite awhile. Men are marrying, partying, having a good time and take no notice of the world getting worse and worse, just like the sign that Jesus told his disciples of. You don't even believe in God, so heeding his warnings are laughable to you. Just like they were to those that Noah preached too. Until of course that Great tribulation rolls around, and it hits everyone that them stupid Jehovah's witnesses were right Thanks to Jehovah. Like it did those who ignored Jehovahs warning through Noah, that all they did, build homes, marrying, partying, drinking, having a good time... meant nothing because their time is up.

    My friend, the sign is very clear. It is about to rain. Hard. And I am trying to be one of the ones on the boat. Are you?

    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    5.) You believe that after you are pronouced dead. That something inside of you keeps on living. Your soul...how long does it take a soul to get to heaven by the way?.
    Again, that is what most mainstream Christian faiths teach. The bible does not actually teach this. It actually teaches that Man and animal alike are actually souls themselves. Not that they have a separate soul apart from their flesh. Plus, Ezekiel 18:4 says the soul that sins, it iself will die. Nowhere does die ever imply life does it??

    Plus, to make matters worse on that belief, Jesus was the first person to ever be ressurected to heaven. In order to be ressurected, which means be broughtback to life, you need to die. If Jesus had an immortal soul, then he would not have needed to be ressurected to go to heaven. He would have simply just went, correct?


    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    6.) You just contradicited yourself. If GOD cannot die, then that means Jesus did NOT nor COULD not have died on the cross for anyone's sins. You really are this mentally challeneged, aren't you? Now you said in the post above that GOD is 1. Not 3, but 1. Now you'd then have to believe that GOD assumed human form through Jesus. So If GOD cannot die..and Jesus is really GOD in disguise. That then has to mean...that he did not die on the cross...which means through Jesus there was/is NO salvation whatsoever. That means no sins we're ever forgiven...that means no sins will be forgiven...simply because GOD in fact as you stated DID NOT DIE. That means the entire time he was walking around talking about how he had to die...HE WAS LYING out of his ass. Because after all, HE didn't die. Which then means there was no assention into the heavens
    You forgot to mention another possibilty. You said.
    "If GOD cannot die, then that means Jesus did NOT nor COULD not have died on the cross for anyone's sins. You really are this mentally challeneged, aren't you?"
    But you have not considered another option. Maybe JESUS IS NOT GOD!!!!
    I have said repeatedly that Jesus was at no time God almighty. He is the first creation made by God, as he himself attests to in revelation 3:14

    So Jesus was not lying, he was the sacrifice God has used to set in motion the restoration of perfect mankind. The lie of the Trinity has been a plague of false religion for quite some time now. But the truth has been out there for quite awhile as well. Jehovah is God alone, and Jesus is his son, and not God.


    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    8.) God created a perfect angel with free will, yet got pissed off when he decided to take his thunder? So GOD in all his glory didn't see this coming? Or better yet...perhaps he made him so he could turn against him...because without there being a fallen angel..there could be no snake to manipulate Adam and Eve which would completely **** up the story. After all, if there is no snake there to tell them to eat the fruit..then they don't eat it..then man is perfect. Then there is no need ever for GOD to assume human form transform into Jesus and forgive sins. You people have no brains when it comes to storytelling do you.

    9.) Now why would a great, good, loving GOD allow for a harmful, evil, demon to rule over the earth if he wasn't truly doing GOD's good dirty work??.
    refer here again please, thanks
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    10.) Judas did not choose to betray Jesus. He had no choice. If he would not have betrayed Jesus your story get's ****ed up. Because then Jesus by not being ratted out by Judas goes off and does whatever. He doesn't get caputred by the Jews or Romans..and there is then no dying on the cross..which means no salvation through Christ. Once again you folks have no brains for storytelling...the right way.
    So every human you know has free will except Judas huh?


    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    11.) Rape in the Bible...Judges 21:10-24 NLT.
    There is no way Im responding to any of these to waste my time reaserching them for you to ignore and refute it. If you believe that, believe it. But it is clear to me on the surface you are just being dogmatic.


    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    12.) You know in this day and age...if a father of two daughters got drunk and had sex with them...and then claimed he was too drunk to know it was his daughters. He would be considered a pedophile as LOT was...you know that right? He was too drunk. Once again another religious apologist point of view.
    So if you had two daughters who got you drunk beyond consciousness, and forced themselves on you, would you consider yourself a pedophile?



    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    13.) Holy Spirit...impregnated Mary? Wasn't Joseph already married to her? Or just plain with her before GOD decided he wanted to tap that ass?
    Joseph was arranged to be married to Mary, and was going to leave her. But Jehovahs Angel told him what was taking place, so he understood and stayed. He is much more noble a man than either of us.

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    What kind of life is that? To think you are a sinner, never worthy, and having to dedicate your life to an egomaniac? I feel sorry for you. I really do. What a waste. You should enjoy your life, not spend it thinking how crappy a person you are and trying to appease an invisible being that doesn't exist.

    Trust me, your god doesn't exist. There is no possible way your god exists. He doesn't hate you or love you, because there is nobody there to hate or love. It's a shame, all of the amazing things you will have missed out on while you were busy trying to dedicate your life to an invisible being.

    Now go have some fun, life is too short.

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    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    There is so much wrong with that statement I don't even have the time right now to rip it apart I've got a 10am...

    I'll take care of this when i break for lunch tomorrow.
    if ur gonna start showing me reasons for Evolution being true, dont bother cuz thats not what this dicussion is about and its not even an argument. Teachers were fired for simply bringing up the word Intelligent Design you canot argue this cuz it happened to people already. This shows that there is something wrong with the views of todays society. There is a growing trend to throw out any possibility ID or a possible creator to this Earth. Just look at college campuses around the nation. This is not an argument, KnickFan4realz...watch Ben Stein's documentary, there is historical proof and testimony from these college professors who werent even Christian and didnt even believe in ID. And every Atheist i have ever talked to uses Evolution and the Big Bang as their reason to have their own beliefs, which was obviously influenced in school were they taught it in science class for so many years. Once again this isnt an argument, its presented information and commen sense.

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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    What kind of life is that? To think you are a sinner, never worthy, and having to dedicate your life to an egomaniac? I feel sorry for you. I really do. What a waste. You should enjoy your life, not spend it thinking how crappy a person you are and trying to appease an invisible being that doesn't exist.

    Trust me, your god doesn't exist. There is no possible way your god exists. He doesn't hate you or love you, because there is nobody there to hate or love. It's a shame, all of the amazing things you will have missed out on while you were busy trying to dedicate your life to an invisible being.

    Now go have some fun, life is too short.
    And let me ask you a question, have you ever had the feeling to hate or love?

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    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    And let me ask you a question, have you ever had the feeling to hate or love?
    Yes. So do chimpanzees.

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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    What kind of life is that? To think you are a sinner, never worthy, and having to dedicate your life to an egomaniac? I feel sorry for you. I really do. What a waste. You should enjoy your life, not spend it thinking how crappy a person you are and trying to appease an invisible being that doesn't exist.

    Trust me, your god doesn't exist. There is no possible way your god exists. He doesn't hate you or love you, because there is nobody there to hate or love. It's a shame, all of the amazing things you will have missed out on while you were busy trying to dedicate your life to an invisible being.

    Now go have some fun, life is too short.
    Thing is , because of your inaccurate knowledge and understanding of the scriptures, you would come to this conclussion. Jesus said the truth will set us free, and we will be happy from it. And guess what, he's right.

    Thanks to the truth we know many things that help.

    Truth about the nature of God and his son
    The issue of soveriegnty.
    Why God allows suffering.
    What REALLY happens to dead people.
    What God's Kingdom REALLY is.
    Accurate understanding of prophecy.
    Truth about the ressurection.
    How to truly worship God in the right way.

    I am a sinner. You are too. Whether you recognize it or not, it holds true. But I do enjoy my life. I get to go out door to door to tell of the good news of the Kingdom, which is the most coordinated life saving work on the planet. Nothing brings more joy then when someone who is searching for God is helped along their journey by you. And I have done a lot of self gratifying in my day, and I mean NOTHING comes close to seeing the effects of helping someone learn the truth about Jehovah. And it is a privelage to do so! Because there are only 7 million people active in the world doing this same work, yet we have done it so well that we have reached over 90 % of the population on earth! Jehovah has to be behind it! Do you know what the governments and other religions have tried to do over the years to try and dispose of Jehovah's witnesses?

    But no matter what they try, they cannot succeed because of this: Mathew 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.

    You cannot go anywhere it the world just about and not find Jehovah's witnesses doing just this. Making disciples. That is why we have Jehovah's favor, along with his son. Because we do just as we are commanded. It is no different than listening to your earthly parents.

    Also, another nugget why I know this is the true religion. Jehovah said at the time of the end, true worship of him will be magnified above all other forms of religion. They will be a people for him name, they will not take up arms agains fellow man and be unified in worship. This was a prophecy found at Isaiah 2:1-5 that is being fulfilled today by individuals from every nation who unite in worship to Jehovah. Hence, Jehovah's witnesses.

    Did you know that no matter what corner of the earth Jehovah's witnesses are, we study, go over, and present from door to door the same material worldwide in unison? So that means if I was headed to the other side of the globe and have already studied the material for the week here in the states, I'm covered because it is the same material wherever I go(only exception being language of course). And that no matter where you'd find one in the world, we all believe the very same exact things based on the bible? No discrepency? That is amazing considering you can't get the avg 5 person home in the world to be that unified, let alone congregations worldwide of over 7 million people!

    I live for this. I know it. So when you say Jehovah does not exist, and I see all the things he said he would do happening all around me, and im united with his other worshipers who do and see the same things I am convinced. I don't need to actually see Jehovah to know he exists... I SEE EVERYTHING HE SAID HE'D DO TO LET US KNOW HE EXISTS!

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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Thing is , because of your inaccurate knowledge and understanding of the scriptures, you would come to this conclussion. Jesus said the truth will set us free, and we will be happy from it. And guess what, he's right.

    Thanks to the truth we know many things that help.

    Truth about the nature of God and his son
    The issue of soveriegnty.
    Why God allows suffering.
    What REALLY happens to dead people.
    What God's Kingdom REALLY is.
    Accurate understanding of prophecy.
    Truth about the ressurection.
    How to truly worship God in the right way.

    I am a sinner. You are too. Whether you recognize it or not, it holds true. But I do enjoy my life. I get to go out door to door to tell of the good news of the Kingdom, which is the most coordinated life saving work on the planet. Nothing brings more joy then when someone who is searching for God is helped along their journey by you. And I have done a lot of self gratifying in my day, and I mean NOTHING comes close to seeing the effects of helping someone learn the truth about Jehovah. And it is a privelage to do so! Because there are only 7 million people active in the world doing this same work, yet we have done it so well that we have reached over 90 % of the population on earth! Jehovah has to be behind it! Do you know what the governments and other religions have tried to do over the years to try and dispose of Jehovah's witnesses?

    But no matter what they try, they cannot succeed because of this: Mathew 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.

    You cannot go anywhere it the world just about and not find Jehovah's witnesses doing just this. Making disciples. That is why we have Jehovah's favor, along with his son. Because we do just as we are commanded. It is no different than listening to your earthly parents.

    Also, another nugget why I know this is the true religion. Jehovah said at the time of the end, true worship of him will be magnified above all other forms of religion. They will be a people for him name, they will not take up arms agains fellow man and be unified in worship. This was a prophecy found at Isaiah 2:1-5 that is being fulfilled today by individuals from every nation who unite in worship to Jehovah. Hence, Jehovah's witnesses.

    Did you know that no matter what corner of the earth Jehovah's witnesses are, we study, go over, and present from door to door the same material worldwide in unison? So that means if I was headed to the other side of the globe and have already studied the material for the week here in the states, I'm covered because it is the same material wherever I go(only exception being language of course). And that no matter where you'd find one in the world, we all believe the very same exact things based on the bible? No discrepency? That is amazing considering you can't get the avg 5 person home in the world to be that unified, let alone congregations worldwide of over 7 million people!

    I live for this. I know it. So when you say Jehovah does not exist, and I see all the things he said he would do happening all around me, and im united with his other worshipers who do and see the same things I am convinced. I don't need to actually see Jehovah to know he exists... I SEE EVERYTHING HE SAID HE'D DO TO LET US KNOW HE EXISTS!
    Well, if it truly makes you happy, then by all means keep believing in it.

    You know how I feel. I think you're missing out on a lot and living a wasted life. But, if your happy, that's all that matters.

    Just one question though...

    When your out there knocking on people's doors and spreading your beliefs, if people reject your beliefs, do you continue and badger them? Or do you move on and just accept they don't want to believe what you want to believe?

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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Well, if it truly makes you happy, then by all means keep believing in it.

    You know how I feel. I think you're missing out on a lot and living a wasted life. But, if your happy, that's all that matters.

    Just one question though...

    When your out there knocking on people's doors and spreading your beliefs, if people reject your beliefs, do you continue and badger them? Or do you move on and just accept they don't want to believe what you want to believe?
    If they decline, we move on. They have made a choice.

    Our goal is to spread the good news of the Kingdom. We look for those who are rightly disposed for the truth. Meaning ones who are actually looking for it and can recognize it. We can tell pretty much off top those not interested, because they leave you no avenues for discussion. We don't stay where we're not wanted. We may try to reason a little bit with some who are open to it. I have had some pretty good conversations with people in their homes upon the first meeting, even if they are none believers. But the key is presenting the truth to them, it is totally their choice to accept it. Just like it was in Noahs day when he preached it would rain. Most don't accept, sadly. Our intention is not to badger, but a person may feel badgered if we try and reason with them at times. So it's a fine line. But no, that is not our intention. I can see how a person could feel badgered in a way though.

    We try and understand and respect their views. But most people don't understand our viewpoint. We firmly believe this system of things in the world is going to end based on the bible and those who have Jehovah's favor will be saved. So Jehovah holds us responsible to let those in the world know what's coming. So when it does, no one can say they have not heard, or been warned. That is a big responsibility. So we have to use discernment at doors. We have to try and reason when possible, because our hope is that we can maybe say the right thing, or bring out the right point that may help an individual's interest in learning the truth. Do you know how people react when you say you have the truth? They usually instantly get uptight because then, in effect you say, they have the lie. This does not always turn out good. Yet we get up and do it over and over. And it's not only for the Love of Jehovah, it's for the love of fellow man as well. He does not, and we do not wish to see anyone perish. But when people ignore him, then they bring it on themselves. No one will be able to say, no Jehovah's witness ever knocked on my door or spoke to me about Jehovah. Look around.. the world is the worse it's ever been. Jesus said what Jehovah's witnesses are doing, preaching the good news of the Kingdom, would be the last of the sign of the end. Before the end can come, the Good news of the Kingdom must be preached in the entire inhabited earth. Jehovahs witnesses have reached over 90% of the worlds population with this Good News with just 7 million publishers worldwide... While the world gets worse.. and worse.. and worse.. and worse.. If that ain't a sign, I don't know what is.



    But every now and again we find someone who is yearning for the truth, and it makes all those empty doors, and doorslams lol, well worth it.

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    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    if ur gonna start showing me reasons for Evolution being true, dont bother cuz thats not what this dicussion is about and its not even an argument. Teachers were fired for simply bringing up the word Intelligent Design you canot argue this cuz it happened to people already. This shows that there is something wrong with the views of todays society. There is a growing trend to throw out any possibility ID or a possible creator to this Earth. Just look at college campuses around the nation. This is not an argument, KnickFan4realz...watch Ben Stein's documentary, there is historical proof and testimony from these college professors who werent even Christian and didnt even believe in ID. And every Atheist i have ever talked to uses Evolution and the Big Bang as their reason to have their own beliefs, which was obviously influenced in school were they taught it in science class for so many years. Once again this isnt an argument, its presented information and commen sense.
    Do you even know what intelligent design is? You do not realize that Intelligent Design is nothing more than creationism dressed up. Why? Because every explanation given from it...connects to a religious text and connotation. We have a separation between church and state. Public schools are secular. However, no on is barred from expressing their religious views...certainly not the students.

    A great many of schools have their religious sects...Christian clubs, Muslim clubs in after school activities and etc. No one barred these teachers from say wearing a cross, or headdress, or anything of the sort on school property. But to teach RELIGION which is what intelligent design is...let's not not evade what it actually is in the first place is a violation. Because intelligent design cannot be taught without expressing a religious connotation. Now you've made the ignorant claim that evolution is a belief by asserting it promotes Atheism...which IS NOT EVEN A RELIGION.

    A) Facts cannot be a belief. Facts rest on evidence, of proof. It's a fact the sky is blue, and grass is green. These are not beliefs, these are facts. A belief would be stating that since these things appear to be so perfectly designed...it must point to a creator of origin...now Intelligent Design cannot sit there and play semantical games that is referring to a designer it does not call GOD..because they are leading students to a religious point of view.

    B)There is nothing religious about evolution, or Darwin. Darwin does not propose you believe because he says so...he gives you evidence..page after page after page. Other scientists have confirmed his hypothesis and works, they too give other evidence to the hypothesis which he proposed nearly 200 years ago. Calling evolution an Atheist or Agnostic belief system just demonstrates you have no understanding of that branch of science.

    Now you have Atheists who understand Evolution and the Big Bang. They may incorporate that these scientific studies, research, proofs, and that the evidence of these studies...help cement their reasoning for atheism. But where you misunderstand is that Evolution and the Big Bang are not religious in anyway. There is evidence of evolution, evidence of the big bang. They are long tested, documented, proved, scientific hypothesis'. Once again we come back to what I was explaing earlier about in science the use of the word "THEORY" is hugely different than how it is used in normal english vernacular and lends people such as yourself to these ill informed opinions as to what these scientific theories actually mean, and how they are to be interpreted.

    Evolution, and the Big Bang do not influence someone to go become an Atheist. As both of you have stated you have a large amount of doctors, scientists, engineers etc...that are Chrisitans, Muslims, etc. So your claim right in of itself...already has proven to be false in your meager assertion as to these two theories promoting some kind of non-theistic agenda in America.

    Here a quote you'd agree with:

    "Today, any science that borders on religious claims is kept out of the classroom, then Charles Darwin's theory of evolution should be kept out of the classroom, too, because it is little more than a glorified presentation of the atheistic religion.

    Charles Darwin's "Origin of the Species" gave rise to the atheist religion of Darwinism that ultimately morphed from religion into a so-called scientific fact, but even as a theory is has now rapidly falling into discredit"

    Actually, the comment noted above is a perfect reason why Evolution should be taught in the schools. Ignorance may be good for the religious but it is not good for the health of our nation. Evolution is not a part of any religion. Evolution is a science fact and has been since Darwin introduced it back in 1859.
    Asking to keep Evolution out of the schools would be like asking to keep gravity out of the schools. Evolution isn't just an idea!!!

    There are far more religious people who support Evolution as a natural explanation of our world including the Catholic Church:

    The Catholic Church has never had a problem with "evolution" (as opposed to philosophical Darwinism, which sees man solely as the product of materialist forces). Unlike Luther and Calvin and modem fundamentalists, the Church has never taught that the first chapter of Genesis is meant to teach science.

    "The doctrine of faith, however, invariably affirms that man's spiritual soul is created directly by God. According to the hypothesis mentioned, it is possible that the human body, following the order impressed by the Creator on the energies of life, could have been gradually prepared in the forms of antecedent living beings" (Pope John Paul II, General Audiences, January 24 and April 16, 1986).

    Whether you consider atheism a religion or not isn't really relevant to whether evolution should be taught in science classes. What *is* relevant is the question, "Is evolution science?"

    Yes, evolution is science.

    Darwinism does not rely upon (or imply) atheism, it relies upon naturalism--as does all of science.

    The only thing that evolution contradicts regarding religious belief is a literal interpretation of the Bible(or any other religious text explaining origins). Many Christians feel that there is no contradiction between their faith and evolution. The solution is simple: God created evolution along with the rest of the natural world and its processes. To imply that a non-literalist Christian is an atheist is simply willful ignorance.

    Science is concerned with *natural* processes. There are the laws of the natural world. Anything theological in nature is not within the domain of science.

    ID and creationism advocates seem to promote this idea that evolution is a flawed theory, yet seem to greatly lack an understanding of it. For example, the author implies that evolution somehow includes a "random chance" theory of the origin of life. But evolution is concerned with what happened after life got started, not how it started. That is a separate area of study.

    There are a great deal of unsubstantiated, and simply *wrong* claims made in this article. For example, the claim that the study of the human genome has damaged the credibility of evolution in general, or the theory of our primate ancestry, is simply *wrong*. Our study of the human genome has only added to the evidence supporting evolution. If you are going to make an incredible claim like that, you should back it up with some sort of reference(to a study, for example).

    That is not to say that we are done with our study of evolution--there are still things we don't fully understand. But the amount of evidence for the process of evolution is staggering and there is no alternative theory that comes close to being credible(including ID, which isn't even a scientific theory, but merely poor philosophy).

    If evolution is flawed, scientists would be investigating and publishing alternative theories.

    While evolution is controversial among some people, it is *not* controversial among *scientists*. It is one
    of the most well-confirmed theories in biology--just as quantum mechanics is one of the most well-confirmed theories in physics.

    And you can read the article for yourself if you wish:

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

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    religion
    1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
    2. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
    3. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
    4. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
    5. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
    faith
    1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
    2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See synonyms at [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], [Only registered and activated users can see links. ].
    3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
    4. often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
    5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
    6. A set of principles or beliefs.
    All the emboldened can be consistent with an athiests way of life. So it can be called a religion. Just not a spiritual religion.

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    In your argument, we begin to see the cultural background of creationism as a social and political movement, not a scientific one. This is, in part, why they have turned to the legal system to try to get the state to force their "science" on students. But legislation cannot make a belief system scientific; only scientists can do that.

    The theory of evolution in particular, and science in general, is no more the basis of these "isms" than the printing press is responsible for Hitler's Mein Kampf. The fact that the science of genetics has been used to buttress racial theories of the innate inferiority of certain groups does not mean we should abandon the study of genes. There may well be Marxist, communist, atheist, and even immoral (however defined) evolutionists, but there are probably just as many capitalist, theist (or agnostic), and moral evolutionists. As for the theory itself, it can be used to support Marxist, communist, and atheist ideologies, and it has; but so has it been used (especially in America), to lend scientific credence to laissez-faire capitalism. Linking scientific theories to political ideologies is tricky business and we must be cautious of making connections that do not necessarily follow.

    What is the fundamentalist excuse for the 50 million victims of the Christian religion before 1859 and Darwin's Origin of Species?

    To blame good Christian people for the actions of evil persons who claimed Christian authority is as asinine as blaming Charles Darwin for the actions of Joseph Stalin. Fundamentalists claim morality on simply being a fundamentalist, not their own actions. Any actions they can justify by twisting Scripture are moral and the "Word of God," thus they are blameless for their evil and depravity. Total bull****! There are evil people and anything can used to justify evil or good. Don't blame God or use God as an excuse for evil.

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    [QUOTE=Knicks4lyfe;62905]religion
    1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
    2. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
    3. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
    4. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
    5. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
    faith
    1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
    2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See synonyms at [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], [Only registered and activated users can see links. ].
    3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
    4. often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
    5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
    6. A set of principles or beliefs.
    All the emboldened can be consistent with an athiests way of life. So it can be called a religion. Just not a spiritual religion.[/QUOTE

    You do realize that these definitions are prepositional statements don't you? You do know what those are do you not? In other words...the rest of the first definition in order to follow through. The very fact the first definition of religion...doesn't apply to ATHEISM negates you entire argument.

    Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe. (ATHEISM BELIEVES IN NO GODS)

    A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship. (ATHEISTS DO NOT WORSHIP ANYTHING, ATHEISM DOES NOT BELIEVE ANYTHING...EVERYTHING WE KNOW RESTS ON FACTUAL EVIDENT INFORMATION)

    The life or condition of a person in a religious order. (THERE IS NO RELIGIOUS ORDER OF ATHEISTS)

    A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader. (WHAT SPIRITUAL ATHEIST LEADER? )


    FAITH

    Just as it states...WITHOUT MATERIAL EVIDENCE OR LOGICAL PROOF. (ATHEISM HAS TONS OF MATERIAL EVIDENCE FOR EVOLUTION AND TONS OF LOGICAL PROOF...MAKING IT FACTUAL...NOT A BELIEF)

    There is no theological virtue within ATHEISM because there is not theology.

    There is no religious dogma in ATHEISM. Go look up what DOGMA is...

    You are just simply too stupid to understand what a religion is, what a religion is not, what an atheist is, and what an atheist is not. There is nothing else to be said on this point.

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    [quote=KnicksFan4Realz;62909]
    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    religion
    1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
    2. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
    3. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
    4. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
    5. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
    faith
    1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
    2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See synonyms at [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], [Only registered and activated users can see links. ].
    3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
    4. often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
    5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
    6. A set of principles or beliefs.
    All the emboldened can be consistent with an athiests way of life. So it can be called a religion. Just not a spiritual religion.[/QUOTE

    You do realize that these definitions are prepositional statements don't you? You do know what those are do you not? In other words...the rest of the first definition in order to follow through. The very fact the first definition of religion...doesn't apply to ATHEISM negates you entire argument.

    Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe. (ATHEISM BELIEVES IN NO GODS)

    A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship. (ATHEISTS DO NOT WORSHIP ANYTHING, ATHEISM DOES NOT BELIEVE ANYTHING...EVERYTHING WE KNOW RESTS ON FACTUAL EVIDENT INFORMATION)

    The life or condition of a person in a religious order. (THERE IS NO RELIGIOUS ORDER OF ATHEISTS)

    A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader. (WHAT SPIRITUAL ATHEIST LEADER? )


    FAITH

    Just as it states...WITHOUT MATERIAL EVIDENCE OR LOGICAL PROOF. (ATHEISM HAS TONS OF MATERIAL EVIDENCE FOR EVOLUTION AND TONS OF LOGICAL PROOF...MAKING IT FACTUAL...NOT A BELIEF)

    There is no theological virtue within ATHEISM because there is not theology.

    There is no religious dogma in ATHEISM. Go look up what DOGMA is...

    You are just simply too stupid to understand what a religion is, what a religion is not, what an atheist is, and what an atheist is not. There is nothing else to be said on this point.

    So if I say, I play Madden religiously online, am I involving God into it? Does that apply to all of the meanings of religiously? Or does that sentence strictly refer to the 5th meaning of religion? Listen, you are not NEARLY as smart as you think you are paco. Slow.. down.

    And just a guess, do you have to call people stupid to make yourself feel smart? If you do, guess what, it's not working. NAA NAA NANA NAA NAAA!

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