Page 17 of 20 FirstFirst ... 11121314151617181920 LastLast
Results 241 to 255 of 297

Thread: Explaining Evolution And Why GOD is NOT LIKELY

  1. #241
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,221
    Rep Power
    9

    Default

    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    Morals do not come from GOD. I'll explain this tomorrow using the smallest word I can find to explain why morals coming from GOD can't possibly be correct, and the alleged one's that did from scripture are completely asinine.

    You and the million degrees you have huh?

  2. #242
    Veteran TunerAddict's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    2,183
    Rep Power
    9

    Default

    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    You and the million degrees you have huh?
    You really shouldn't talk because 90% of your arguments are without evidence and usually end with either personal attacks on the person you're "debating" or a reference to monkeys.

  3. #243
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,221
    Rep Power
    9

    Default

    Originally Posted by TunerAddict
    You really shouldn't talk because 90% of your arguments are without evidence and usually end with either personal attacks on the person you're "debating" or a reference to monkeys.
    You say 90% of what I say is without evidence, but you say nothing can be proven. So for you to sit here now and say 90% of what I say lacks evidence, or proof, is a bit of an oxy moron for a man who believes the way you do, seeing as to how I guess 10 % of what I have said has been evidence, or proof. According to your percentile chart of course

  4. #244
    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Ft. Collins, CO
    Posts
    2,950
    Rep Power
    12

    Default

    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Now can I call you a liar for saying I believe in impossible stories? That is not what I really said was it?
    It's true, isn't it? You believe in Adam and Eve and Noah's Arc, correct? These are impossible stories. Two humans can not spawn the entire population of the world. Just like two giraffes can not spawn the entire population of giraffes. Plus, how do you account for the many different races of humans on earth? Wouldn't you say they evolved? Notice how each race has facial and physical characteristics specifically adapted to the environment of their origin. Plus, 6,000 years is not enough time for all of the races to have evolved the way they are now. By the way,what race were Adam and Eve?


    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    This is your problem, so wise in your own eyes, you cannot see. The bible has a verse for such ones
    1st corinthians 3:18 Let no one be seducing himself: If anyone among YOU thinks he is wise in this system of things, let him become a fool, that he may become wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God; for it is written: “He catches the wise in their own cunning.” 20 And again: “Jehovah knows that the reasonings of the wise men are futile.”


    Your wisdom is far beneath Jehovah's, this is why you don't understand what you read, you are trying to be wiser than the wisdom giver! Not good.
    "This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said, ‘Here I am against you, O Tyre, and I will bring up against you many nations, just as the sea brings up its waves. And they will certainly bring the walls of Tyre to ruin and tear down her towers, and I will scrape her dust away from her and make her a shining, bare surface of a crag. A drying yard for dragnets is what she will become in the midst of the sea. . . . Here I am bringing against Tyre Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon from the north, a king of kings, with horses and war chariots and cavalrymen and a congregation, even a multitudinous people. And I will make you a shining, bare surface of a crag. A drying yard for dragnets is what you will become. Never will you be rebuilt; for I myself, Jehovah, have spoken,’ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah."—Ezek. 26:3-5, 7, 14.
    Now clearly what you are failing to take into account is the MANY NATIONS PART OF THE PROPHECY. Jehovah said he was bringing many nations. That would clearly mean more than 1. If he had stopped at Nebuchadnezzar, then it would not have been many nations, plural, but one, singular. THAT WOULD HAVE INDEED MADE THE PROPHECY FALSE, RATHER THAN TRUE. THAT IS, IF YOU HAVE PROPER RENDERING OF COURSE LETS READ WHAT SECULAR HISTORY REPORTS.


    Secular history reports that Nebuchadnezzar began a siege of Tyre sometime after destroying Jerusalem and the temple of Jehovah’s worship in 607 B.C.E. The Jewish historian Josephus, drawing upon Phoenician annals and other previously written history, states that Nebuchadnezzar’s siege against Tyre lasted thirteen years. The Bible indicates that Nebuchadnezzar’s forces inflicted considerable damage upon Tyre.—Ezek. 26:8-11.
    Tyre recovered from this blow struck by Babylon.

    NOW WOULD OTHER NATIONS INDEED ATTACK TYRE AS JEHOVAH SAID WOULD HAPPEN? LET'S CONSULT SECULAR HISTORY AGAIN!


    However, centuries later, Grecian forces under Alexander the Great moved against Tyre, which at that time was located on an island about half a mile (0.8 kilometer) from the mainland. When the inhabitants refused to capitulate to Alexander, he became enraged and had his men scrape up the ruins of the mainland city and throw them into the sea, thus building a causeway out to the island city. Then a sea battle took place in which Alexander’s forces prevailed. After a siege of seven months, Alexander’s men took the island city. When its inhabitants put up desperate resistance, the city was set on fire. It proved to be as another prophet, Zechariah, had foretold: "In the fire she herself will be devoured."—Zech. 9:4 Look! Jehovah himself will dispossess her, and into the sea he will certainly strike down her military force; and in the fire she herself will be devoured

    Now, it is notable to pay attention to the emboldened verses. First, we have another nation attacking Tyre. Just as Jehovah said would happen, that you apparently seemed to miss being wise in your own cunning. Secondly, Alexanders men scraped up the ruins from the now destroyed mainland that Babylon destroyed! Just like Jehovah said would happen! Alexander went on to destroy the island city of Tyre, the place the Tyrians took refuge in when they fled Babylonian armies, during the 13 year siege. But take into how precise the detail of the prophecy was fulfilled, here military force was struck down at sea, and when the inhabitants on land put up resistance, the city was literally lit on fire!!! HOW MUCH PROOF WOULD ONE NEED? ZECHARIAH WROTE THIS LONG B EFORE GREECE WAS A POWER! Now would that be the end of the Nations pummeling Tyre? secular history again says..

    Though Tyre kept trying to make a comeback through the centuries, the city repeatedly fell before hostile forces, just as God’s prophet had foretold. (Ezek. 26:3) What is the present condition of Tyre, which was one of the great sea powers of the ancient world? Ruins and a small seaport, called Sour (Sur), mark the site. Nina Jidejian, in her book Tyre Through the Ages (1969), declares: "The port has become a haven today for fishing boats and a place for spreading nets," exactly as prophesied through Ezekiel.—Ezek. 26:5, 14.

    So Tyre went from a worldwide great sea power, to a nation pummeled by nations, to being ruins and a small seaport. And you say it has been rebuilt? HAS IT? Do you think Tyre can withstand 13 years of seige from the US? Hope not. You call it how you see it.

    I'll see it for what it is, a place of ruins Jehovah has allowed to exist to make it a drying place for fishnets, to prove that whatever he wills, must take place. Prophecy.
    Our interpretations of the prophecy are different. To me, it seems to say Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, king of kings, will destroy Tyre.

    Notice after it says: "I am going to bring against Tyre Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, king of kings, with horses and chariots, with horsemen and a great army."

    It states: He will ravage your settlements on the mainland with the sword; he will set up siege works against you, build a ramp up to your walls and raise his shields against you. He will direct the blows of his battering rams against your walls and demolish your towers with his weapons. His horses will be so many that they will cover you with dust. Your walls will tremble at the noise of the war horses, wagons and chariots when he enters your gates as men enter a city whose walls have been broken through. The hoofs of his horses will trample all your streets; he will kill your people with the sword, and your strong pillars will fall to the ground. They will plunder your wealth and loot your merchandise;

    All of this is in reference to Nebuchadnezzar destroying Tyre, which he was never able to do.


    In addition: I will make you a bare rock, and you will become a place to spread fishnets. You will never be rebuilt, for I YAHWEH have spoken, declares the Sovereign LORD.

    This sounds like a contradicting statement. It sounds like Tyre will be destroyed and never rebuilt. But then, "a place to spread fishnets" sounds to me like a small fishing village. (By the way, what secular historian would say "a place to spread fishnets" without trying to tie in its reference to the bible? This must have been copied and pasted from a creationist's website again). Tyre is one of the largest port cities in Lebanon. It is not a fishing village, it is an importing and exporting hub in the Mediterranean Sea. It has a population of over 114,000. That does does not sound like a small fishing village or "place to spread fishnets".


    But that's the bible in a nutshell, isn't it? It is open to interpretation. Hence the multiple sects of Christianity, each with their own version, and each just as convinced as you are about interpreting the bible correctly.

  5. #245
    Member KnicksFan4Realz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Phoenix,AZ
    Posts
    406
    Rep Power
    9

    Default

    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    It's true, isn't it? You believe in Adam and Eve and Noah's Arc, correct? These are impossible stories. Two humans can not spawn the entire population of the world. Just like two giraffes can not spawn the entire population of giraffes. Plus, how do you account for the many different races of humans on earth? Wouldn't you say they evolved? Notice how each race has facial and physical characteristics specifically adapted to the environment of their origin. Plus, 6,000 years is not enough time for all of the races to have evolved the way they are now. By the way,what race were Adam and Eve?




    Our interpretations of the prophecy are different. To me, it seems to say Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, king of kings, will destroy Tyre.

    Notice after it says: "I am going to bring against Tyre Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, king of kings, with horses and chariots, with horsemen and a great army."

    It states: He will ravage your settlements on the mainland with the sword; he will set up siege works against you, build a ramp up to your walls and raise his shields against you. He will direct the blows of his battering rams against your walls and demolish your towers with his weapons. His horses will be so many that they will cover you with dust. Your walls will tremble at the noise of the war horses, wagons and chariots when he enters your gates as men enter a city whose walls have been broken through. The hoofs of his horses will trample all your streets; he will kill your people with the sword, and your strong pillars will fall to the ground. They will plunder your wealth and loot your merchandise;

    All of this is in reference to Nebuchadnezzar destroying Tyre, which he was never able to do.


    In addition: I will make you a bare rock, and you will become a place to spread fishnets. You will never be rebuilt, for I YAHWEH have spoken, declares the Sovereign LORD.

    This sounds like a contradicting statement. It sounds like Tyre will be destroyed and never rebuilt. But then, "a place to spread fishnets" sounds to me like a small fishing village. (By the way, what secular historian would say "a place to spread fishnets" without trying to tie in its reference to the bible? This must have been copied and pasted from a creationist's website again). Tyre is one of the largest port cities in Lebanon. It is not a fishing village, it is an importing and exporting hub in the Mediterranean Sea. It has a population of over 114,000. That does does not sound like a small fishing village or "place to spread fishnets".


    But that's the bible in a nutshell, isn't it? It is open to interpretation. Hence the multiple sects of Christianity, each with their own version, and each just as convinced as you are about interpreting the bible correctly.
    Not to mention logically this is why I cannot possibly be the "official word of GOD" in the first place.

    Because any word of "GOD" has to be free of ANY INTERPRETATION other than what is directly written. The very moment you start looking at ANY biblical passage, story, tale, etc...and infer a different meaning than what is being expressly said on the page...and you start thinking there is deeper more implied meaning to the words other than what is written there.

    You have just proved GOD to be fallible. Now, unless you believe that GOD is IMPERFECT..you cannot possibly re-interpret, re-analyze, re-think, re-structure, what he's written. Basically, you can't have a better understanding of it than GOD. To re-interpret what you believe GOD has written in the black and white automatically suggest you do not agree with him on the matter.

  6. #246
    Member KnicksFan4Realz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Phoenix,AZ
    Posts
    406
    Rep Power
    9

    Default

    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    You and the million degrees you have huh?
    Morals do not come from GOD, or any HOLY TEXTS people tend to attribute morality towards. Logically what most people fail to realize is quite simply the very moment you read across a passage, story, proverb in the any holy text...you find to be questionable, evil, immoral, insane, illogical, stupid, vile, upsetting...you are stating whether you like to admit it to yourself or not...you disagree with GOD. Period. This of course is assuming you take any holy text as the direct literal word of "GOD", straight from his mouth.

    Now at the moment you disagree your are not disagreeing simply because you feel the need to do so, or because you feel that this holy text is a false representation of the true word of "GOD" either. Because truly if you reject parts of it as the word of "GOD" you merely lack the balls, and strength of mind to reject all of it. You disagree because of what society overall has deemed bad...things like (slavery, rape, murder, war, famine) as bad things. The bible in several passages uncompromisingly advocates for these things to be carried out.

    According to the Bible you are supposed to..

    Kill Non-Believers of YOUR GOD
    Not associate with Non-Believers
    Stone your children for cursing
    Let a rapist marry their victim
    Not show any mercy, nor compassion towards non-believer

    Dueteronomy 13:7-11 (Very clear and there is NO room for re-interpreting what one of faith must do to a non-believer)

    If you disagree with killing non-believers or any of the above...then quite frankly you are more MORAL than GOD.

  7. #247
    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Ft. Collins, CO
    Posts
    2,950
    Rep Power
    12

    Default

    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    Dueteronomy 13:7-11 (Very clear and there is NO room for re-interpreting what one of faith must do to a non-believer)

    If you disagree with killing non-believers or any of the above...then quite frankly you are more MORAL than GOD.
    6 "If your brother, your mother's son, or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul, entice you secretly, saying, `Let us go and serve other gods' (whom neither you nor your fathers have known, 7 of the gods of the peoples who are around you, near you or far from you, from one end of the earth to the other end), 8 you shall not yield to him or listen to him; and your eye shall not pity him, nor shall you spare or conceal him. 9 "But you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10 "So you shall stone him to death because he has sought to seduce you from the LORD your God who brought you out from the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. 11 "Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and will never again do such a wicked thing among you.

    Yeah...that's just f*cked up. The bible tells you to kill your best friend or relative if they try and convince you of another religion. And this is evidence of morality from God?!? LOL The rule of law is more moral than God.

    Knicks4lyfe, have you killed anybody?
    Last edited by LJ4ptplay; Aug 05, 2008 at 13:35.

  8. #248
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,221
    Rep Power
    9

    Default

    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    It's true, isn't it? You believe in Adam and Eve and Noah's Arc, correct? These are impossible stories. Two humans can not spawn the entire population of the world. Just like two giraffes can not spawn the entire population of giraffes. Plus, how do you account for the many different races of humans on earth? Wouldn't you say they evolved? Notice how each race has facial and physical characteristics specifically adapted to the environment of their origin. Plus, 6,000 years is not enough time for all of the races to have evolved the way they are now. By the way,what race were Adam and Eve?
    The stories are not impossible to me, just as evolution is not impossible to Carl Sagan. My argument was just as his was, yet you went off on a tangent to defend your hero, calling me a liar and I'm misquoting and twisting his words and such, when technically, I wasn't.

    Acts says out of one man, all men came to be. What race Adam and Eve were is not told. But they were human for sure.



    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Our interpretations of the prophecy are different. To me, it seems to say Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, king of kings, will destroy Tyre.

    Notice after it says: "I am going to bring against Tyre Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, king of kings, with horses and chariots, with horsemen and a great army."

    It states: He will ravage your settlements on the mainland with the sword;
    All of this is in reference to Nebuchadnezzar destroying Tyre, which he was never able to do.
    Our interpretations are different because You are trying to refute the bible, and I am trying to live by God's word. So I will be much more studious concerning it than you, as you would with evolution. You missed a key point I highlighted for you in your quote. THE MAINLAND part.

    Secular history reports that Babylon destroyed Tyre's MAINLAND. Just as the Bible said Nebuchadnezzar would do. He did that. Because Alexander the great used the ruins of the mainland to make a causeway to the city Island the Tyrians fled too for refug e during the Babylonian siege. So again, it is you misinterpreting the whole prophecy. Not the prophecy being incorrect. What God said would happen, happened.

    Also, Jehovah said he was going to bring MANY NATIONS against Tyre. Had he stopped at Nebuchadnezzar and Babylon, if they in fact would have destroyed it totally, then logic indicates that MANY NATIONS THEN COULD NOT COME AGAINST IT. So in order for the prophecy to come true, Tyre needed to withstand blows from many nations, until it becomes what it is today, a drying yard for dragnets.




    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    In addition: I will make you a bare rock, and you will become a place to spread fishnets. You will never be rebuilt, for I YAHWEH have spoken, declares the Sovereign LORD.

    This sounds like a contradicting statement. It sounds like Tyre will be destroyed and never rebuilt. But then, "a place to spread fishnets" sounds to me like a small fishing village. (By the way, what secular historian would say "a place to spread fishnets" without trying to tie in its reference to the bible? This must have been copied and pasted from a creationist's website again). Tyre is one of the largest port cities in Lebanon. It is not a fishing village, it is an importing and exporting hub in the Mediterranean Sea. It has a population of over 114,000. That does does not sound like a small fishing village or "place to spread fishnets".
    I really do not understand why you reference creationists website in every reply. I am defending my religious beliefs, so I would hope one would expect I would provide my side of the debate with such.

    Do you go to creationists websites to support your side of the debate? Or sites that support your view?

    Besides, it was Nina Jidejian, in her book Tyre Through the Ages that said "The port has become a haven today for fishing boats and a place for spreading nets," Not a JW. Why don't you read her book? Moving on.


    Considering Tyre is not even called Tyre anymore (sur) , considering Tyre was once a world leading sea power, that once was able to battle with a world power 13 years, and is now as Nina Jidejian said, "a haven for fishing boats and a place for spreading nets," I would say the bibles prophetic word has again rang true.

    The bible did not contradict itself, Tyre never will ever again be a power, or rebuilt so to speak. It will be what it is now. Because Jehovah said so.




    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    But that's the bible in a nutshell, isn't it? It is open to interpretation. Hence the multiple sects of Christianity, each with their own version, and each just as convinced as you are about interpreting the bible correctly.
    Actually, that is not the bible in a nutshell. That is philosophical mankinds view of what the bible is. Big difference.

    The bible, like any other book in history, has a theme. A single theme. If everyone followed or understood the theme, interpretation would be made easy, because it speaks for itself. But most people don't even know what the theme of the bible is, that is why there is so many views and beliefs on the bible. And even differing Christian sects.

    However, on the difference of Christian sects, Jesus said this
    Mathew 7:21 Not everyone saying to me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will.

    So Jesus here implies that many will know of him, and even praise him as their savior, but only those doing the will of his father will enter the Kingdom of the heavens. All Christian sects do not live up to doing the will of the Father. This is why they differ in interpretations.

    But Jehovah, Jesus and the bible itself explain there is only ONE CRITERIA. DO THE WILL OF JEHOVAH. Only one group of Christians in the world want to do this. Which in turn is why Jehovah favors them as a people.

  9. #249
    Veteran TunerAddict's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    2,183
    Rep Power
    9

    Default

    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    You say 90% of what I say is without evidence, but you say nothing can be proven. So for you to sit here now and say 90% of what I say lacks evidence, or proof, is a bit of an oxy moron for a man who believes the way you do, seeing as to how I guess 10 % of what I have said has been evidence, or proof. According to your percentile chart of course

    LMAO. You're either one funny guy or one ignorant mother****er.

    1) You just proved my point as instead of contending with my argument, you made it about me. You made it a personal assault on me instead of the argument I presented. Easily something that can be interpreted as a sign of weakness or desperation.

    2) Evidence does NOT equal proof. I believe in evidence. I believe you can never truly prove something. They are different. Evidence is something that SUPPORTS your idea or theory. It in NO way is proof or can be taken as proof to the validity of that point. Thus, the entire argument you made in the post is invalid.

    Before you try to **** with me over something like that, saying that I contradict myself and that I'm a hypocrite, make sure you know what the **** you're talking about.

    But hey, I know you'll try to turn this around on me, because I'm a godless heathen or whatever, but it'll only further reinforce what I've stated here. You have very little evidence, the majority of your arguments are personal attacks or restatements of your religious beliefs that you pass off as fact without evidence.

    Say whatever you want, because you cannot win. You have EVERYTHING to lose if god isn't real, I have nothing. I am without fear, death does not bother me. My life is meaningless and pointless. I am not even a speck of dust in the events of the universe. I am free while you are a slave.

  10. #250
    Member KnicksFan4Realz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Phoenix,AZ
    Posts
    406
    Rep Power
    9

    Default

    Alright that's it. We've tried reason, evidence, logic, all to disprove WHY the Bible is not only intellectually an inferior document written by primitive people's, but also why you DON'T even draw your morals from it. I'll try and indulge you in some biblical morality if you'd be willing to give yes or no responses to the following questions.

    Do you feel it is moral to kill a non-believer?
    Do you feel it is moral or just for a rapist to marry his/her victim?
    Do you feel that exorcism is the right course of action to administer if someone says they wish to commit suicide?
    Do you feel it is just to stone a child for cursing their parents?
    Do you feel a just loving GOD would allow for incest?

  11. #251
    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Ft. Collins, CO
    Posts
    2,950
    Rep Power
    12

    Default

    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    The stories are not impossible to me, just as evolution is not impossible to Carl Sagan. My argument was just as his was, yet you went off on a tangent to defend your hero, calling me a liar and I'm misquoting and twisting his words and such, when technically, I wasn't.
    The stories are not impossible to you because you don't want to accept scientific facts. And yes, you were quoting Carl Sagan out of context and twisting his words to make it seem as if he believed in creationism, when in actuality he was refuting the argument for it.

    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Our interpretations are different because You are trying to refute the bible, and I am trying to live by God's word. So I will be much more studious concerning it than you, as you would with evolution. You missed a key point I highlighted for you in your quote. THE MAINLAND part.

    Secular history reports that Babylon destroyed Tyre's MAINLAND. Just as the Bible said Nebuchadnezzar would do. He did that. Because Alexander the great used the ruins of the mainland to make a causeway to the city Island the Tyrians fled too for refug e during the Babylonian siege. So again, it is you misinterpreting the whole prophecy. Not the prophecy being incorrect. What God said would happen, happened.

    Also, Jehovah said he was going to bring MANY NATIONS against Tyre. Had he stopped at Nebuchadnezzar and Babylon, if they in fact would have destroyed it totally, then logic indicates that MANY NATIONS THEN COULD NOT COME AGAINST IT. So in order for the prophecy to come true, Tyre needed to withstand blows from many nations, until it becomes what it is today, a drying yard for dragnets.




    I really do not understand why you reference creationists website in every reply. I am defending my religious beliefs, so I would hope one would expect I would provide my side of the debate with such.

    Do you go to creationists websites to support your side of the debate? Or sites that support your view?

    Besides, it was Nina Jidejian, in her book Tyre Through the Ages that said "The port has become a haven today for fishing boats and a place for spreading nets," Not a JW. Why don't you read her book? Moving on.


    Considering Tyre is not even called Tyre anymore (sur) , considering Tyre was once a world leading sea power, that once was able to battle with a world power 13 years, and is now as Nina Jidejian said, "a haven for fishing boats and a place for spreading nets," I would say the bibles prophetic word has again rang true.

    The bible did not contradict itself, Tyre never will ever again be a power, or rebuilt so to speak. It will be what it is now. Because Jehovah said so.


    You are being selective here. You are basing the truth of the prophecy on "many nations" and "a place to spread fishnets". But you are ignoring the part where it says Nebuchadnezzar destroys and conquers Tyre:

    Your walls will tremble at the noise of the war horses, wagons and chariots when he enters your gates as men enter a city whose walls have been broken through. The hoofs of his horses will trample all your streets; he will kill your people with the sword, and your strong pillars will fall to the ground. They will plunder your wealth and loot your merchandise;

    He tried for 13 years but was never able to do so and essentially made a compromise peace agreement. I'm not misinterpreting the bible here nor am I misunderstanding history.

    from Wikipedia:
    It was often attacked by Egypt, besieged by Shalmaneser V, who was assisted by the Phoenicians of the mainland, for five years, and by Nebuchadnezzar (586–573 BC) for thirteen years, without success, although a compromise peace was made in which Tyre paid tribute to the Babylonians. It later fell under the power of the Persians.


    A place never to be rebuilt and a place to spread fishnets. This is just false.

    from Wikipedia:
    Today it is the fourth largest city in Lebanon [4] and houses one of the nation's major ports known locally in French as Soûr. Tyre is a popular destination for tourists.

    It is quite a bit more than just a place in rubble to spread fishnets. And again, I've stated this before, it is hardly a profound prophecy predicting Tyre will be a place for fishing. It's on the Mediterranean Sea!! Wow! What a prophecy!! LOL.
    Last edited by LJ4ptplay; Aug 05, 2008 at 17:11.

  12. #252
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,221
    Rep Power
    9

    Default

    Originally Posted by TunerAddict
    Say whatever you want, because you cannot win. You have EVERYTHING to lose if god isn't real, I have nothing. I am without fear, death does not bother me. My life is meaningless and pointless. I am not even a speck of dust in the events of the universe. I am free while you are a slave.
    I'll respond to this, because the rest of what you said was above my intelligence clearly. I have never been in the Matrix.

    So let me get this right, you are free because you choose to live a wicked, selfish and meaningless life, based on the matrix and warped reality that you speak of? Meanwhile I am not free because I choose to live a morally clean lifestyle that not only benefits myself, but others as well, for the sake of drawing close to the God who proves who he is to all who follow him?? So If I was like you, I'd be better off? You wanna go that far?

    If I continue to live my life, and all I believed was proven false, I'd be fine with being a person that was an example to my kids as a great father, example to my wife as a great husband, and an example to society as an upstanding moral individual. If you call that meaningless, with all that is wrong with people in the world , more power to you

  13. #253
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,221
    Rep Power
    9

    Default

    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    The stories are not impossible to you because you don't want to accept scientific facts. And yes, you were quoting Carl Sagan out of context and twisting his words to make it seem as if he believed in creationism, when in actuality he was refuting the argument for it.
    Sagan's argument was not that it cannot have been designed, but it was not consistent with a great designer if it was, which in turn appears to defend his stance on his person al belief that it was not.

    And the stories are not impossible because they can happen. You believe that africanus is our ancestor, and not all scientists agree with you. But you still believe it. Cuz you choose too. Period. Just as I choose to believe the bible.




    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    You are being selective here. You are basing the truth of the prophecy on "many nations" and "a place to spread fishnets". But you are ignoring the part where it says Nebuchadnezzar destroys and conquers Tyre:

    Your walls will tremble at the noise of the war horses, wagons and chariots when he enters your gates as men enter a city whose walls have been broken through. The hoofs of his horses will trample all your streets; he will kill your people with the sword, and your strong pillars will fall to the ground. They will plunder your wealth and loot your merchandise;

    He tried for 13 years but was never able to do so and essentially made a compromise peace agreement. I'm not misinterpreting the bible here nor am I misunderstanding history.

    from Wikipedia:
    It was often attacked by Egypt, besieged by Shalmaneser V, who was assisted by the Phoenicians of the mainland, for five years, and by Nebuchadnezzar (586573 BC) for thirteen years, without success, although a compromise peace was made in which Tyre paid tribute to the Babylonians. It later fell under the power of the Persians.
    No, in fact you are being selective, I am observing the whole prophecy. You are ignoring the many nations part, even though this post that I am quoting is showing you just how true that came to be! Your post supports the bible prophecy! Plus, the fac t that Jehovah said many nations before he even named Babylon, indicates that Babylon would just be the begining of the end for Tyre as it was once known.

    I will try and say it again for emphasis. If Nebuchadnezzar had in fact destroyed Tyre totally , that means Mainland and island city, meaning there was two parts of it, then no other nation could have pummeled it as the prophecy states would happen. EFFECTIVELY KILLING THE PROPHECY.

    By the way, you are ignoring the intricate details of the prophecy being fulfilled totally to try and convince yourself you have it right. Like Alex the great scraping up the dust of the mainland to get to the island city (as spoken of in ezekiel 26:4) . Like the whole army of the Tyrians being defeated at sea, fulfilling the words at zechariah 9:4 which plainly states

    Look! Jehovah himself will dispossess her, and into the sea he will certainly strike down her military force; and in the fire she herself will be devoured.

    That is exactly what happened! Alexanders army defeated the whole tyrian army at sea, and then his men set the island on fire for those inhabitants who resisted.

    What is your take for these parts? It was written after?





    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    A place never to be rebuilt and a place to spread fishnets. This is just false.

    from Wikipedia:
    Today it is the fourth largest city in Lebanon [4] and houses one of the nation's major ports known locally in French as Sor. Tyre is a popular destination for tourists.

    It is quite a bit more than just a place in rubble to spread fishnets. And again, I've stated this before, it is hardly a profound prophecy predicting Tyre will be a place for fishing. It's on the Mediterranean Sea!! Wow! What a prophecy!! LOL.
    Things the prophecy said would happen.

    Many nations will pummel it. Check. ezk 26:3-5
    Nebuchadnezzar would destroy the mainland. Check. ezk 26:7
    The scraps from the dust of the destroyed mainland used. Check ezk 26:4
    Military force defeated at sea, island city torched by fire. Check zech 9:4
    Becoming a dry yard for dragnets. Check

    The bible seems to have accurately foretold all of these things, and you scoff?

    Notice the bible said it would never be rebuilt. It did not say never inhab ited, or used. It said rebuilt. It's kinda like our Knicks. When the Knicks become a REAL team, a team we ca n root for like say, the 99 team vs the spurs, we'll say, they have been REBUILT. In the meantime, the Garden is still here, the Knicks are still a team in the NBA, even a team that people root for. Just n ot a good team, or a team with prestige as it has been a time or two in the past.

    That is the case of Tyre. It was once a world leading, not city leading.. WORLD LEADING SEA POWER. They did more than just fish, they traded Gold and Ophir and many other things in their prime as a people. They had a voice in world affairs. They went from that, to being a sea port.

    That is like the Knicks going from 60-22 and a finals appearance to the first pick in the draft.

    If Tyre ever becomes a leading sea power in the world, and trades with world powers on a large scale, and can fend of world powers, then one can say it has been rebuilt. Til then, it's just like the state of the Knicks.. they're around, but nobody notices.

  14. #254
    Veteran TunerAddict's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    2,183
    Rep Power
    9

    Default

    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    I'll respond to this, because the rest of what you said was above my intelligence clearly. I have never been in the Matrix.

    So let me get this right, you are free because you choose to live a wicked, selfish and meaningless life, based on the matrix and warped reality that you speak of? Meanwhile I am not free because I choose to live a morally clean lifestyle that not only benefits myself, but others as well, for the sake of drawing close to the God who proves who he is to all who follow him?? So If I was like you, I'd be better off? You wanna go that far?

    If I continue to live my life, and all I believed was proven false, I'd be fine with being a person that was an example to my kids as a great father, example to my wife as a great husband, and an example to society as an upstanding moral individual. If you call that meaningless, with all that is wrong with people in the world , more power to you
    Once again you turn to personal attacks....

    Plus, how can you draw that my life is "wicked and selfish."

    If you really look at it, selfishness is the nature of man. You have never done a thing in your entire life that wasn't selfish. Not a single thing.

    Donated money? Did it to make yourself feel good and relieve yourself of guilt. Not your fault others suffer.

    There aren't selfless actions, only selfish actions. Someone who does something with nothing to gain is non-existent. It denies human logic to do something that gives you nothing back.

    But hey, think I'm crazy or whatever, but it just shows you're in denial. I mean, who would really like to believe this? It doesn't give you a whole lot.

  15. #255
    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Ft. Collins, CO
    Posts
    2,950
    Rep Power
    12

    Default

    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Sagan's argument was not that it cannot have been designed, but it was not consistent with a great designer if it was, which in turn appears to defend his stance on his person al belief that it was not.

    And the stories are not impossible because they can happen. You believe that africanus is our ancestor, and not all scientists agree with you. But you still believe it. Cuz you choose too. Period. Just as I choose to believe the bible.






    No, in fact you are being selective, I am observing the whole prophecy. You are ignoring the many nations part, even though this post that I am quoting is showing you just how true that came to be! Your post supports the bible prophecy! Plus, the fac t that Jehovah said many nations before he even named Babylon, indicates that Babylon would just be the begining of the end for Tyre as it was once known.

    I will try and say it again for emphasis. If Nebuchadnezzar had in fact destroyed Tyre totally , that means Mainland and island city, meaning there was two parts of it, then no other nation could have pummeled it as the prophecy states would happen. EFFECTIVELY KILLING THE PROPHECY.

    By the way, you are ignoring the intricate details of the prophecy being fulfilled totally to try and convince yourself you have it right. Like Alex the great scraping up the dust of the mainland to get to the island city (as spoken of in ezekiel 26:4) . Like the whole army of the Tyrians being defeated at sea, fulfilling the words at zechariah 9:4 which plainly states

    Look! Jehovah himself will dispossess her, and into the sea he will certainly strike down her military force; and in the fire she herself will be devoured.

    That is exactly what happened! Alexanders army defeated the whole tyrian army at sea, and then his men set the island on fire for those inhabitants who resisted.

    What is your take for these parts? It was written after?







    Things the prophecy said would happen.

    Many nations will pummel it. Check. ezk 26:3-5
    Nebuchadnezzar would destroy the mainland. Check. ezk 26:7
    The scraps from the dust of the destroyed mainland used. Check ezk 26:4
    Military force defeated at sea, island city torched by fire. Check zech 9:4
    Becoming a dry yard for dragnets. Check

    The bible seems to have accurately foretold all of these things, and you scoff?

    Notice the bible said it would never be rebuilt. It did not say never inhab ited, or used. It said rebuilt. It's kinda like our Knicks. When the Knicks become a REAL team, a team we ca n root for like say, the 99 team vs the spurs, we'll say, they have been REBUILT. In the meantime, the Garden is still here, the Knicks are still a team in the NBA, even a team that people root for. Just n ot a good team, or a team with prestige as it has been a time or two in the past.

    That is the case of Tyre. It was once a world leading, not city leading.. WORLD LEADING SEA POWER. They did more than just fish, they traded Gold and Ophir and many other things in their prime as a people. They had a voice in world affairs. They went from that, to being a sea port.

    That is like the Knicks going from 60-22 and a finals appearance to the first pick in the draft.

    If Tyre ever becomes a leading sea power in the world, and trades with world powers on a large scale, and can fend of world powers, then one can say it has been rebuilt. Til then, it's just like the state of the Knicks.. they're around, but nobody notices.
    Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. My definition of rebuilt, is different than yours. I define rebuilt as being rebuilt. Something new in its place. It seems like you are redefining rebuilt in order to keep the prophecy true. The bible doesn't say "it will never be a dominant power again". It simply says it will not be rebuilt. When clearly it has.

    And I interpret it differently when it comes to Nebuchadnezzar. I read it as him destroying and conquering Tyre, you do not. That doesn't mean I'm disregarding the "many nations" part, I just read it as Nebuchadnezzar doing all of those things because it only refers to him after it mentions that it will be destroyed. That many nations will come but Nebuchadnezzar will be the one to conquer and destroy Tyre.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •