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Thread: Explaining Evolution And Why GOD is NOT LIKELY

  1. #271
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    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    I just have to ask...

    Why does it matter if sex is morally clean? I can understand physically clean in regard to disease. But morally clean...what functional purpose does that serve for humans...NOT GOD?
    Because it's clear by the situation on earth that sex should be respected more as a moral, rather than selfish loose conduct.

    Again, it's real simple, if everyone Listened to Jehovah and did not fornicate, we would not have high levels of divorce, spread of std's, Abortions, adultery. Which leads to the terrible state of the family in the world as it is.

    Kid's without Fathers, Moms, which is destroying the family structure in the world. Why? All because sex is promoted as the thing to do freely and willingly. Sex is everywhere now. Cannot escape it. It's even referenced on the damn disney channel. Mickey mouse station! What is ok for your children to watch? Better yet, our children.

    Not only does fornication lead to disease at times loss of life, but it breaks down the moral of the family. This cannot be denied.

    Fornication is just plain bad for you. So who does not fornicating benefit, God, or humans?

  2. #272
    Member KnicksFan4Realz's Avatar
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    So you don't have a real answer for why it NEEDS TO BE MORAL?

    Just a belief about WHY U CONCEDE IT SHOULD BE.

    Christians have the highest rate of divorce than any other group now why is that?

    Atheists however, have the lowest. By all means explain why people that follow GOD have higher marital problems than those who do not?

    Adultery can only come from those whom are first married in the first place. Has nothing to do with fornication as you make it seem. Abortion as well has nothing to do with it either...some folks simply need to be aborted. I'm sure you'd shed a tear for Hitler had he been aborted.

    Parents are in charge of what their children watch. You don't like it turn the channel. Is it really that hard? We've even created the V-chip for you folks..have age restricted purchases...yet you have no problem with your kids reading about the murder, violence, rape, and honor killing contained in your holy books...yet get upset if they were to play Grand Theft Auto..you folks are anything but logically consistent.

    Sex is not dirty, nor immoral. Nor is it any more pure if the two folks are married. Marriage does not mean you will be faithful to your partner otherwise you wouldn't have adultery in the first place.

    Being in a committed relationship PERIOD with a low number of sexual partners is how you lessen the chance for disease. But hey sex is dirty only if you believe GOD to be a pervert...logic follows had they not eaten the fruit..they would've stayed naked...and according to you folks...we'd still be naked now...and at last check Adam Eve nowhere does it mention they were married before she birthed Cain and Abel..but I digress.

    The state is in the terrible world it is in because people try to live their lives according to ideas from primitive people's who decreed that eating shellfish was a sin. And that it was okay for men to ravage another man's daughters instead of two strangers.

    If more people had access to condoms it would cut down sexual disease, if people stayed true to their sexual partner it would cut down on abortion and disease. Life does not even begin at conception even your bible tells you that Adam did not have life till he breathed air into his nostrils...even GOD supports abortion...once again all from your book.

    There is no question being a parent is hard, but when has it been easy?

  3. #273
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    So basically, the world is messed up because of Christians. I gotcha.

    Lemme ask, you ever cheat on a girlfriend? If she found out, did that make her feel loved? Did it hurt her that you slept with another woman, but were claiming to be hers? I don't care what age, just asking honestly have you ever done that. If no, congrats, you're better than a lot of men in that aspect.

    But what happens for those who have? Is that cool? Hurting another person for the sake of selfishly gain?(wantin to tap everything moving because it's alright.. ya heard me, holla back!)
    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    So you don't have a real answer for why it NEEDS TO BE MORAL??
    It should be because it only benefits the whole of mankind! And that is what science guys like you are supposed to be about right? The benfit of mankind? Well not fornicating would benefit mankind. GREATLY! That is why it should be a principle moral.

    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    Christians have the highest rate of divorce than any other group now why is that?
    Because even professed Christians do not live up to their billing.

    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    Atheists however, have the lowest. By all means explain why people that follow GOD have higher marital problems than those who do not??
    Show these numbers please. Thanks.

    And please... Stop acting as if Athiest have it all figured out guy. That is just silly. A very logical reason Why christians have a higher rate over athiest is because you guys are outnumbered greatly. It's skewed. Plus Christians base their marriage on moral beliefs usually. Athiest's do not have such. So you live by a different set of views. Survival of the fittest. And if you don't live care free, then you live by morals given by God. So are you really athiest? Only sometimes.

    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    Adultery can only come from those whom are first married in the first place. Has nothing to do with fornication as you make it seem. Abortion as well has nothing to do with it either...some folks simply need to be aborted. I'm sure you'd shed a tear for Hitler had he been aborted.
    Adultery is still a form of fornication. Both can be defined as sexual promiscousness. And both cause detrimental issues with humanity. As far as abortion goes, Hitler in the womb had no Idea he would become Hitler we know. No one knows why he chose the life he did. If God saw fit to allow him be concieved, how are we the wiser to decide he is not worth being passed over from the chop shop?



    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    Parents are in charge of what their children watch. You don't like it turn the channel. Is it really that hard? We've even created the V-chip for you folks..have age restricted purchases...yet you have no problem with your kids reading about the murder, violence, rape, and honor killing contained in your holy books...yet get upset if they were to play Grand Theft Auto..you folks are anything but logically consistent.
    Seriously, did you compare Grand theft auto to the bible as if they are even remotely in the same ball park?


    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    Sex is not dirty, nor immoral. Nor is it any more pure if the two folks are married. Marriage does not mean you will be faithful to your partner otherwise you wouldn't have adultery in the first place.
    Improper sex is dirty and immoral though. Nothing good comes from fornication or adultery. If you disagree, then what good comes from it? That is why respect for marriage and proper veiw of sex should be morally accepted. Because a lot of good comes from that. What wrong comes from that?


    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    Being in a committed relationship PERIOD with a low number of sexual partners is how you lessen the chance for disease.
    Why the need for a low number of sexual partners? That would basically increase the chance of disease compared to having zero partners right? So basically, if one took being in a commited relationship serious, sorta like what Marriage is supposed to be, and did not have sex until they were married, And stayed commited to that one marriage mate, what would the chance for disease be then? Very, very minimal, correct? Sorta kinda like how Jehovah intended for man to do in the first place? So in other words, if people just listened to Jehovah, they'd be better off?


    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    But hey sex is dirty only if you believe GOD to be a pervert...logic follows had they not eaten the fruit..they would've stayed naked...and according to you folks...we'd still be naked now...and at last check Adam Eve nowhere does it mention they were married before she birthed Cain and Abel..but I digress..
    Well them being naked and fornication and adultery are different. Clearly they were not nearly as perverted as you make it sound, because apparently Adam was in no rush to bang his perfect wife. In fact, it says they had intercourse after they sinned. So logic has it that in a perfect mind state, it is not all about getting yours off like today's imperfect society is. Just a guess though.

    Who said they were not married? God made Eve for the strict purpose of being a helper to Adam. A life long partnership. He arranged the very first marriage. But look at these words here in Genesis.

    Gen 1:
    23
    Then the man said:
    "This is at last bone of my bones
    And flesh of my flesh.
    This one will be called Woman,
    Because from man this one was taken
    24 That is why a man will leave his father and his mother and he must stick to his wife and they must become one flesh. 25 And both of them continued to be naked, the man and his wife, and yet they did not become ashamed.

    Again, who said they were not married? It appears that the very first marriage was before God.. Like every other marriage since has been.

    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    The state is in the terrible world it is in because people try to live their lives according to ideas from primitive people's who decreed that eating shellfish was a sin. And that it was okay for men to ravage another man's daughters instead of two strangers.
    So wait, my daughters would be better off if I go sleep around, leave them at home and thier mom as well to do what all the cool people do, which is have so much fun chasing tail relentlessly, reasoning that as long as I provide financially for them and Im around enough for them to see me it's cool. But whenev er I get that free time, I'm banging the neighbor lady. I guess I would.

    I guess it would be better to divorce my wife cuz this stupid woman can't seem to stop nagging me because I squeeze the toothpaste from the middle instead of the bottom, and I leave the toilet seat up, instead of maybe trying to work with her needs some and for one second.. just for one second, not think about myself?

    Or maybe it's just creative differences? Or maybe I did because It just got old? Maybe we just all of a sudden can't see eye to eye. But it was all good just a week ago! But this week, I'm ready to file for divorce.

    That sounds a lot like today's modern society.

    Maybe I'm stupid. Maybe I'm primitive because I rather disown myself for the sake of pleasing my God, and my wife, and truly being there for my kids, by staying home, helping them in their education by reading and studying with them. Primitive. Maybe I should use that time I'm spending with my family discussing the day over dinner at the neighbor lady's cribo. Maybe I should be at the club with the fellas every weekend Instead of in bed with the wife. I would think that would set a mighty fine example for my son!

    Hey son, marriage ain't really marriage. You can still do you kid! It's a boring institution.. It's outdated. Just make sure you work and provide, and let your wife handle everything else. Just hit every now and again to keep her happy, but her feelings? What are those? Your boys are your boys for life! Pimpin ain't easy, and it never stops playa! DO YOU!

    You can be new age, I'll be primitive and be what a husband and God fearing man is supposed to be. People like this are not detriments to society, they only benefit it.

    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    If more people had access to condoms it would cut down sexual disease
    What if they just waited til marriage and did not wish it to work, but MADE IT WORK? Would that be better than the condoms option?

    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    if people stayed true to their sexual partner it would cut down on abortion and disease.
    Like Jehovah tells us to do for our benefit? Right, that is what primitive people try and do. New age folks get it in though!

    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    Life does not even begin at conception even your bible tells you that Adam did not have life till he breathed air into his nostrils...even GOD supports abortion...once again all from your book.
    So this is the excuse to abort a life?


    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    There is no question being a parent is hard, but when has it been easy?
    Never in this world will it be. But the last 100 years has just been progressively worse each decade. Every 5 years things seem 10 x's worse than they were just 5 years ago. This is by far the toughest time to raise children. If you do not make it your absolute business to be there to raise your kids, I mean every possible moment you can, Tv, Music or the streets will. Do you trust any of these alone with your kids?

  4. #274
    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Law
    Covenant. The Law covenant between Jehovah and the nation of natural Israel was made in the third month after their leaving Egypt, in 1513 B.C.E. (Ex 19:1) It was a national covenant. One born a natural Israelite was, by birth, in the Law covenant and was thus in this special relationship with Jehovah. The Law was in the form of a code, arranged in an orderly way, its statutes grouped together. The Law, transmitted through angels by the hand of a mediator, Moses, was made operative by a sacrifice of animals (in the place of Moses, the mediator, or "covenanter") at Mount Sinai. (Ga 3:19; Heb 2:2; 9:16-20) At that time Moses sprinkled half the blood of the sacrificed animals on the altar, then he read the book of the covenant to the people, who agreed to be obedient. Afterward he sprinkled the blood upon the book and upon the people. (Ex 24:3-8) Under the Law, a priesthood was established in the house of Aaron, of the family of Kohath of the tribe of Levi. (Nu 3:1-3, 10) The high priesthood passed by descent from Aaron to his sons, Eleazar succeeding Aaron, Phinehas succeeding Eleazar, and so forth.—Nu 20:25-28; Jos 24:33; Jg 20:27, 28.


    The terms of the Law covenant were that if the Israelites kept the covenant they would be a people for the name of Jehovah, a kingdom of priests and a holy nation, with His blessing (Ex 19:5, 6; De 28:1-14); if they violated the covenant, they would be cursed. (De 28:15-68) Its purposes were: to make transgressions manifest (Ga 3:19); to lead the Jews to Christ (Ga 3:24); to serve for a shadow of the good things to come (Heb 10:1; Col 2:17); to protect the Jews from false, pagan religion and preserve the true worship of Jehovah; to protect the line of the seed of promise. Added to the covenant with Abraham (Ga 3:17-19), it organized the natural seed-nation of Abraham through Isaac and Jacob.

    The Law covenant extended benefits to others not of natural Israel, for they could become proselytes, getting circumcised, and could receive many of the Law’s benefits.—Ex 12:48, 49.

    get that so far???
    [SIZE=2]


    How


    [LEFT]did the Law covenant become "obsolete"?


    However, the Law covenant became in a sense "obsolete" when God announced by means of the prophet Jeremiah that there would be a new covenant. (Jer 31:31-34; Heb 8:13) In 33 C.E. the Law covenant was canceled on the basis of Christ’s death on the torture stake (Col 2:14), the new covenant replacing it.—Heb 7:12; 9:15; Ac 2:1-4.[LEFT]

    [FONT=Arial]So basically, we're under the new covenant, not the mosaic law. Which means we don't have to kill anyone for not believing. As I ha ve said already. And the terms of the mosaic law were disclosed. Hope it helps.

    O.K. So were the 10 Commandments absorbed into the new covenant? The 10Commandments were Mosaic Law, correct?


    Did the dark ages kill 100 million people? Did they have the spanish flu? Aids? You seriously wanna say the dark ages was worse than the last 100 years?
    Are you serious? You must have been home schooled. It's the only explanation for your lack of knowledge. The Black Plague alone killed 100 million people. It wiped out over half of Europe's population. Death, disease and war were rampant during these times. Add the Crusades, which murdered approximately 1 million people, and the Dark Ages make the last 90 years seem pleasant in comparison.


    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Fornication has largely been responsible for the "Baby momma, Baby daddy" epidemic that is plaguing the country and even the world. But hey, maybe God does not know what he is talking about when he says don't do it. Maybe it's cool to fornicate. The world loves it! That is why the world is sooooooooooooo wonderful!
    Actually, our bodies not evolving as quickly as our society is the main cause. That, and poor parenting. The late teen years (16-19) is the optimum time for having kids, physically. But our society has become so complex, a 16-19 year old does not have the mental capacity to cope with the responsibilities of raising children and having a career. I agree with you though. It is a problem. But I don't see any problem with two single, responsible and consenting adults enjoying sex together.


    Not according to great scientific minds like Fred Hoyle and such. Not every scientists agrees with this. If you choose to side with those who do, so be it. But this so called evidence is not enough to convince everyone.

    But we all agree the earth is round!
    The overwhelming majority of scientists believe evolution to be true. There may be debates over which species is our true ancestor, but the theory of evolution is one of the most widely accepted theories (over 90&#37 within the scientific community. We've actually seen evolution occur in species today. The theory is sound and proven true by these examples. Not every scientist agrees with it, and that's fine. I look at the evidence of evolution and the lack of evidence for a loving God, and I've come up with my own decision, one that coincides with 90% of the scientific community. If a more sound, reasonable theory with more proof comes along, then I will rethink and adjust accordingly.

    Not all great religious scholars believe in Christianity either. Especially not your version of Christianity. All of your so called evidence is not enough to convince them either. The overwhelming majority of the religious community does not believe that Jesus was the son of God.

    From wikipedia:
    Jehovah's Witnesses teach that after the death of the last apostle, the Church gradually diverged, in a Great Apostasy, from the original teachings of Jesus on several major points. Thus most of the doctrines of Jehovah's Witnesses differ from those of mainstream Christianity, and are considered heresy by most mainstream Christian scholars.

    Some scholars have criticized the New World Translation, the translation of the Bible published by Jehovah's Witnesses, stating that the group has changed the Bible to suit their doctrine and that the translation contains a number of errors and inaccuracies.


    Also, why do you keep ignoring the full detail of the Tyre prophecy? Are you that arrogant to feel the need to ignore truth when it smacks you in your thick forehead?

    I find it hilarious actually that you have not once addressed it. I wanna see how you can say I twisted words for that lol.
    Remind me of the remaining details again. If it is Alexander the Great again, I've addressed this numerous times. Yeah, yeah, hairy he-goats and such. Which then has a section later on that translates what these mean, even though many great religious scholars believe this was edited after the fact to make it seem like the prophecy was true.

    It's all a moot point anyway. The prophecy is false. Tyre has been rebuilt. The whole premise of the prophecy is that Tyre was to be destroyed and never rebuilt, which is untrue.
    Last edited by LJ4ptplay; Aug 07, 2008 at 11:55.

  5. #275
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    Cheating on a girlfriend is NOT ADULTERY. That can only happen when two people are married. But to answer your question NO, I've never cheated on the person I was in a relationship with. Are we talking about love or the act of sex? Cheating on anyone 9/10 is not going to make them feel loved and appreciated...same as if you are married and show no affection...the fact that two folks are married doesn't mean they are in love..the assumption is atleast that they should be in love. Many a married people in loveless marriages out there in the real world.

    Sex does not benefit the whole mankind, it benefits the individuals having sex.Now if you want to talk about mankind overall...To be fair if you look at population growth..people are having too much sex from an economic and environmental standpoint. However, this is still not to say sex need be moral. The people I see having 4,5,6,7, kids tend to be religious and don't actually have a need for that many kids, especially in these modernized times. Often they quote "be fruitful and multiply" as their reasoning, even though they cannot afford themselves to support the families they've created.

    Abortion in this aspect would BENEFIT mankind if more people had access to them..and got over the IDIOTIC notion that a fetus is life. The only reason I mentioned the bible in this matter is simply because if folks are going to claim GOD is against abortion...and take the bible as his literal word...well according to GOD, life begins after birth..not at conception.

    "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man BECAME A LIVING SOUL" (Gen. 2:7)

    Having sex before marriage is not harmful when the right precautions are taken. Your equating medical necessity with morality. For example, circumsision has no medical benefit to the child unless you are talking about warding off possible infection. But at the same time...it's done largely not for medical reasons...but religious reasons. Second, female circumsision is done in the name of religious reasons...and those are 100% not medically necessary to cut the clitoris..it's only done to a female so she will not have the pleasure of enjoying sexual intercourse because fools believe that it will lessen her sex drive..which it will..but is this appropriate for anyone to decide but the individual female in question?!

    RATES OF DIVORCE

    They had interviewed 3,854 adults from the 48 contiguous states. The margin of error is ±2 percentage points. The survey found:

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Denomination (in order of decreasing divorce rate) % who have been divorced

    Non-denominational... 34%
    Baptists.... 29%
    Born-again Christians... 27%
    Other Christians .... 24%
    Mainline Protestants ... 25%
    Mormons .... 24%
    Catholics ... 21%
    Lutherans ... 21%
    Jews.... 30%
    Atheists, Agnostics...21%

    Donald Hughes, author of The Divorce Reality, said:

    "In the churches, people have a superstitious view that Christianity will keep them from divorce, but they are subject to the same problems as everyone else, and they include a lack of relationship skills. ...Just being born again is not a rabbit's foot."

    Ron Barrier, Spokesperson for American Atheists remarked on these findings with some rather caustic comments against organized religion. He said:

    "These findings confirm what I have been saying these last five years. Since Atheist ethics are of a higher caliber than religious morals, it stands to reason that our families would be dedicated more to each other than to some invisible monitor in the sky. With Atheism, women and men are equally responsible for a healthy marriage. There is no room in Atheist ethics for the type of 'submissive' nonsense preached by Baptists and other Christian and/or Jewish groups. Atheists reject, and rightly so, the primitive patriarchal attitudes so prevalent in many religions with respect to marriage.

    Associated Press' confirmation of Barna's results:

    The Associated Press analyzed divorce statistics from the US Census Bureau. They found that Massachusetts had the lowest divorce rate in the U.S. at 2.4 per 1,000 population. Texas had the highest rate at 4.1 per 1,000. They found that the highest divorce rates are found in the "Bible Belt."

    According to the Boston Globe:

    "The AP report stated that 'the divorce rates in these conservative states are roughly 50 percent above the national average of 4.2 per thousand people.' The 10 Southern states with some of the highest divorce rates were Alabama, Arkansas, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, and Texas. By comparison nine states in the Northeast were among those with the lowest divorce rates: Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maine, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, and Vermont."

    One reason for the higher divorce rates in the Bible Belt may be the lower percentage of Roman Catholics in the South. Their denomination does not recognize divorce. Other reasons could be related more to culture than religion:

    A)Couples in the South enter their first marriages at a younger age.
    B)Family incomes in the South are lower.
    C)Educational attainment is lower in the South: One in three Massachusetts residents have completed college. while only 23% of Texans have

    The number is not based on sheer numbers...it's based on an even sampling of all groups identifying in that to their religious or philosopic principles. I.e. 100 christians, 100 muslims, 100 atheists...etc...so the number is based accurately on percentage not just in terms of 100 christians and say 20 atheists. So you are incorrect here as to how the numbers are calcuated.

    Being married is has nothing to do with religion in all honesty. It's a contract. To live by a moral code one need NOT be religious either. Plenty of moral people that make good sound decisions as to what is good/bad without ever having picked up a holy book. Take buddhists prime example...very moral people. 99% never any contact with the Christian Bible...yet far more peaceful, loving and accepting. So you are incorrect here as well. To be an atheist does not mean you are immoral by any means. But to state one gets morality from a holy book is absurd simply because YOU DO NOT FOLLOW EVERY MORAL TENET OF THE BIBLE. If you were biblically moral you would follow them all...as you would believe them to be the perfect words of GOD. The moment you disagree with any moral precept of the bible which you place so much stake in..then you've just proved my point about the bible not being the basis for morality. But I do not think you can understand this point.

    Well the Bible does have stories of rape, war, violence, death, punishment, hellfire, brimstone, demons, angels, starvation, plagues, destruction. No different than your violent video game.

    No such thing as improper sex between consenting persons. You mean the sex you folks have with children be it the priests, pastors, or even congregations in the midwestern US? That is the only example of "improper sex" I can think of readily. Sex between two consenting persons is not wrong...it's just plain lucky.

    Having sex before one is married is a personal choice. It never was/nor will it ever be a law that a) is enforceable, b) realistic. Once again you folks separation from reality prevents you from dealing with these problems in a logical manner.

    Do you folks really believe that constantly telling people when they are horny..(Don't do it) is simply going to be enough? And then what are us "caring" people supposed to do with the one's that slip up and do contract a disease or get pregnant? Would it be "Christian" of us to say **** em you are on your own now? Would it be fair to let them die of the disease? Or would it be SMART to give them the RIGHT information about STD', and pregnancy prevention as any rational, just, caring human being would? Only a twisted mind would say "YES" to all the questions before the 4th one.

    If people had the facts and the medical supplies they needed they'd be better off.

    Mumbo jumbo from the sky daddy about how your going to burn in hell over this..when sex is not only a natural act..but also by your logic built humans to be sexual in the first place ..so it's his fault. When the design ****s up, blame the designer...PERIOD.

    Adam in no rush to bang Eve, those kids poppped out kind of quick. But the fact remains according to the story, had they not eaten the fruit...they and we according to your logic..would still be naked. Didn't exactly see him go for a condom...after all she was dirty since they sinned now. The bible never states they got married, all it states that they were together. Then again..wasn't a third choice around either...sure took her as his wife..but never states there was a ceremony to be exact.

    Your daughters need a rational father that can prepare them for the world they are in, not the world you think it should be. You would bang the neighbor lady if you truly desired to do so, being married and having two girls is not standing in your way of doing the act. You choose to do it, or not do it. Simple. Well according to Islam and the Bible, you as a man have dominance over her. If you wanted to knock her teeth in..biblically speaking you'd be justified.

    So who matters more to you...YOUR GOD...OR YOUR FAMILY? If GOD spoke to you right now..and told you...to kill them...would you listen? Or seek psychiatric help first?

    Having a good time with family, supporting them has nothing to do with GOD once again. Because there being no GOD, suggests that you would leave them and **** them over. But if GOD is the only reason you are doing the right thing by your family..then something is wrong with you on a level I know I cannot reach. Marriage in the end is what people make of it, there are some marriages that should end..some that are great...and some that you don't know why the hell those two ever got married.

    GOD FEARING...People that would fear their own GOD. Not even going to get into how moronic that truly sounds. Nor even right if one is truly of the opinion GOD is loving and forgiving. One should never have to fear what they love..and if they do..then it's not love..it is fear.

    People if they waited till marriage once again..personal choice. But I have to deal with reality that a) not everyone is going to do that, b) it's not fair to penalize them if they did. I do not think them contracting AIDS, unwanted pregnancy, herpes...is a fair punishment for them deciding to have unprotected sex.

    If your daughters decided at say 17 to have sex...not be married...would you rather the guy use a condom or not? I just WANT A YES OR NO ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION.

    (Let's just assume they this one time...don't listen to you. As a great many of teenagers do not listen to their parents.)

    Life does not begin at conception..nor is a fetus life. Therefore there is nothing wrong with abortion. PERIOD.

    As a parent you should always be up on what your kids are reading, watching, doing..etc. However, the most important thing is not controlling what they do in the sense making you more officer than parent. But rather, empowering them with the KNOWLEDGE to make SMARTER decisions about their choices. And get them to think of the consequences. There will come a day when you can NO longer decide for them, and when their knowledge about the world will exceed your own. If you feel you must control your kids in order to "raise them properly" then something you missed. Your not raising children..you have adults in training. They are going to be adults far longer than they will ever be children. No parent wants to see their child get hurt, or do something dumb...or make a mistake that is truly irreversible. It's not harder to raise children..any parent that would leave television, magazines, the internet, neigbors to raise their children for them..doesn't and should never have been a parent in the first place! PERIOD. You are their to GUIDE, that's all you are a GUIDE. No more no less. Guide them well, and guide them with honesty and truth of the world they are living in...to set them up with false hopes, ideas, about what is out there..is only going to make it harder for them to not only adjust...but to cope when something happens. And then the blame will be on you..for not preparing them for that aspect of life.

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    Is it me or does Lyfe seem to say crazier things as this thread gets longer?

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    Let me start off by commending your effort to for the most part be reasonable in explaining your side, and listening to mine. Even though we disagree, I cannot say you have been completely unreasonable.

    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    O.K. So were the 10 Commandments absorbed into the new covenant? The 10Commandments were Mosaic Law, correct?
    I did some research to try and explain this in an easy way for you, and found this. Hope it helps.


    THE
    LAW OF THE CHRISTIAN SYSTEM

    3 Are Christians similarly condemned by the law of the Christian system of things? Or, is the Christian law easier, so that they can live up to it? Neither! The law of the Christian system of things is of an even higher standard, for in Romans 3:31 the apostle Paul writes concerning Christian faith and says: "Do we, then, abolish law by means of our faith? Never may that happen! On the contrary, we establish law." Through Christ Jesus, Jehovah restores all things as he purposed them at the beginning, when He performed the marriage of Adam and Eve. For example, under the Jewish law polygamy was practiced, and divorce was allowed on grounds besides that of adultery. It was not God’s time to restore marriage to its original status. Jesus Christ explained that the Law merely made a concession to the Jews because of their hardness of heart.—Matt. 19:7, 8.

    4 God had promised that he would in time enable his people to keep his laws completely: "I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I shall put inside you, and I will take away the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And my spirit I shall put inside you, and I will act so that in my regulations you will walk, and my judicial decisions you will keep and actually carry out."—Ezek. 36:26, 27; Heb. 9:10.

    NOT
    CONDEMNATION, BUT LIFE


    5 What, then, is the difference in the situation of Christians from that of the Israelites who were under the Mosaic Law and were condemned by it? This: we would be hopelessly unable to keep the law of Christ (which is God’s law for Christians) were it not for the fact that he provided for us a better sacrifice than that arranged for under the Mosaic Law. (Heb. 9:23; 10:8-10) Whereas, up until the time of Pentecost, 33 C.E., all mankind was under the rule of ‘kings’ sin and death, now God’s undeserved kindness rules as king. (Rom. 5:14, 21) The sacrifice of Christ provides forgiveness of sin for all those putting faith in him, for we read in 1 John 2:2: "He is a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins, yet not for ours only but also for the whole world’s."

    6 Now, no imperfect man under the perfect law set forth through Moses(mosaic law) could keep it. For illustration, he might not be one committing murder or adultery; he might not be a thief; but the tenth commandment would convict him, because it prohibited wrong desire. An individual could never overcome the sinful flesh by his own efforts. Under the Law covenant, God’s spirit operated to help faithful men to be pleasing to him and to do the work he gave them. But under the law of Christ, God’s undeserved kindness through the sacrifice of Christ enters in. Through Christ the Christian can really come to know God and draw close to him. (1 John 2:3, 4, 14; 4:8) Forgiveness of sins gives him a clean conscience. (Heb. 9:14; 1 Pet. 3:21) He is actually on the road to life. (John 17:3; 2 Tim. 1:10) God’s spirit operates in a way to help him progressively to change his personality to come nearer to the image of God.—Eph. 4:22-24; Col. 3:10.

    7 Though there is no rule for his every action, the Christian has God’s law written in his heart and God’s spirit dwells in him at all times, aiding him to discern the right course to take. The holy spirit empowers the individual to overcome the desires of the flesh. When, through his inherited sinfulness, he violates the law of God, undeserved kindness and mercy come in to forgive him on the basis of Christ’s sacrifice. In this way he maintains a clean standing at all times before God. A Christian would be condemned only if he were to become a deliberate, rebellious breaker of God’s law. (Rom. 8:1-4) So in Hebrews 10:26-29 we read: "If we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but there is a certain fearful expectation of judgment and there is a fiery jealousy that is going to consume those in opposition. Any man that has disregarded the law of Moses dies without compassion, upon the testimony of two or three. Of how much more severe a punishment, do you think, will the man be counted worthy who has trampled upon the Son of God and who has esteemed as of ordinary value the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and who has outraged the spirit of undeserved kindness with contempt?"



    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Are you serious? You must have been home schooled. It's the only explanation for your lack of knowledge. The Black Plague alone killed 100 million people. It wiped out over half of Europe's population. Death, disease and war were rampant during these times. Add the Crusades, which murdered approximately 1 million people, and the Dark Ages make the last 90 years seem pleasant in comparison.
    The Dark ages spanned from 476 - 1000 ad correct? Are you going by the writers who decided to exapnd it based on some of the behavior still being propogated?

    The Crusades and the plague were bad. even if the plague claimed 100 million lives, that was over a longer period of time.

    The spanish flu is estimated to equal that in just 2 years. Couple that with Aids (25 million deaths, and 33 million living with it now) AND some very nasty biosafety level 4 agents (ebola and marburg viruses) all within the last 90 years, and no way can you justify the dark ages to our time concerning pestilences. Even with all of our advanced science, we are living with more deadlier viruses than any other time in human history.

    And let me remind you again, the last 100 years has seen 3 x's as many deaths due to war than ALL... I SAID ALL OF THE DEATHS DUE TO WAR SINCE YEAR 1 AD-1899. THAT WOULD INCLUDE THE CRUSADES AND DARK AGES. Hitler was responsible alone for more deaths than the whole crusades.


    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Actually, our bodies not evolving as quickly as our society is the main cause. That, and poor parenting. The late teen years (16-19) is the optimum time for having kids, physically. But our society has become so complex, a 16-19 year old does not have the mental capacity to cope with the responsibilities of raising children and having a career. I agree with you though. It is a problem. But I don't see any problem with two single, responsible and consenting adults enjoying sex together.
    As complex as you say our soceity is, it just comes down to basic selfishness. People putting their selfish wants ahead of what is actually best for themselves and others.

    People wanna have sex, but don't wanna be grown up enough to deal with what comes with it. And that is always way more than an orgasm. Feelings get involved, Unwanted pregnancy and disease, sometimes leading to forced marriages which then fail a lot of times, because they are not based on love, but lust.

    Even the most responsible adults can't prepare for the vaunted broken condom. And even the most responsible get caught in the heat of the moment and just plain disregard condoms.

    All of this would be avoided, if people would just heed God's word and wait until they are truly ready to be commited in marriage for the right reasons, to have sex. There is really no way around that.




    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    The overwhelming majority of scientists believe evolution to be true. There may be debates over which species is our true ancestor, but the theory of evolution is one of the most widely accepted theories (over 90%) within the scientific community. We've actually seen evolution occur in species today. The theory is sound and proven true by these examples. Not every scientist agrees with it, and that's fine. I look at the evidence of evolution and the lack of evidence for a loving God, and I've come up with my own decision, one that coincides with 90% of the scientific community. If a more sound, reasonable theory with more proof comes along, then I will rethink and adjust accordingly.
    I understand your view here. I face something similar in my door to door work. Most people say JW are a cult and don't know the bible. But that is by far the most untruth of untruth's. All the things I believe about the bible I have been made to understand by Jehovah's people, using reason and common sense, and world events to prove the bible right. So I am like you, I will adjust my thinking when something better comes along. But I say that will be very tough because, I am part of a very old biblical prophecy.

    It is one thing to have past history of prophecy fulfilled, but it is even more telling when you become part of one. I don't need a scientists to explain it to me, I don't need to be a biblical scholar to have it revealed, or twist words as you say to make it so, none of that. I just need to know WHAT THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS, AND PREACH IT. AND THANKS TO JEHOVAH, THIS IS HAPPENING FOR NOT ONLY ME, BUT 7 MILLION OTHERS.

    So that is my outstanding proof, amongst other things. That Jesus said this preaching of the good news of the Kingdom would take place in the entire inhabited earth, while the earth was in the last days, or worst state in human history. And it is happening!

    The worse span of time for wars, famine, pestilence, natural disasters in one place after another, family structure, false religions, mother against daughter, son against father, no natural affection and meanwhile with all of this going on, the good news of the Kingdom is still being preached. All one has to do is just look around and they cannot deny this is actually really happening. Just as Jesus said it would in mathew 24:3-14.



    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Not all great religious scholars believe in Christianity either. Especially not your version of Christianity. All of your so called evidence is not enough to convince them either. The overwhelming majority of the religious community does not believe that Jesus was the son of God.

    From wikipedia:
    Jehovah's Witnesses teach that after the death of the last apostle, the Church gradually diverged, in a Great Apostasy, from the original teachings of Jesus on several major points. Thus most of the doctrines of Jehovah's Witnesses differ from those of mainstream Christianity, and are considered heresy by most mainstream Christian scholars.

    Some scholars have criticized the New World Translation, the translation of the Bible published by Jehovah's Witnesses, stating that the group has changed the Bible to suit their doctrine and that the translation contains a number of errors and inaccuracies.
    Ah! I'm glad you said this! Now what I will ask you to do for a second, is bring rationale to this when you respond. Let's say you were wanting to be a Christian, which means follower of Christ. This means you would have to do the things he says a Christian must do, logically, correct? Here are some things Jesus stood by and lived for himself while alive.

    Mathew 4:4 It is written, ‘Man must live, not on bread alone, but on every utterance coming forth through Jehovah’s mouth.’

    So here Jesus was implying that the word of God is the way to life, more important to sustain us than even the food we eat. Notice Jesus said, it is written. Where is this written? In God's word, the bible. It is what he lived by, and what anyone professing to be a Christian will live by.

    Next
    Luke 4:43But he said to them: "Also to other cities I must declare the good news of the kingdom of God, because for this I was sent forth."

    So God sent Jesus for a purpose, that he declare the good news of the Kingdom. Jesus sent his disciples out for this very same purpose to the nations. So that means a disciple of his today would have to do the same.

    Next

    Mathew 7:
    13
    "Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.
    15
    "Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to YOU in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruits YOU will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17 Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; 18 a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. 19 Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Really, then, by their fruits YOU will recognize those [men].
    21 "Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will.

    This is Jesus speaking to his disciples on the sermon on the mount. He is speaking of two gates that lead to places. One narrow leading off to life, and the broad and spacious to death. Narrow spaces are cramped, and it's much harder to pass through than spaciousness. This analogy is simple to understand for a true Christian, because the life of a True Christian is one of endurance. It takes effort and endurance and perserverance to live in opposition to the world and imperfect fleshly desires. Which is what Christian must do to gain life. That is why the Gate is narrow. The spacious gate is easy to get through because there is no work involved. Just pass through. Or in other words, live ungodly. Most people do this without care. That is why this gate is Broad and spacious.

    Jesus also said to be careful of false prophets. This is the whole of false religion. By their fruits you will recognize them. The TRUE PROPHET ( or religion ) vs the FALSE.
    In other words, you will look at the religion as a whole, and be able to tell if they live for God, and who does not.

    As Jesus said, those doing the will of his father will be saved. So it won't be enough to just say I'm Christian.. You have to do the will of Jehovah, just as Jesus did.

    Jesus said the law of all laws is to love Jehovah your God more than anything. And to love your neighbor as yourself.

    Jesus said also his followers are no part of the world, even though they are in the world. He also said his disciples would be noticeable because they would have love amongst themselves.

    Jesus never supported or voted in politics, went to war, lied, stole, coveted, fornicated, anything of a vile sort. So if a religious group is involved, and even urgers there followers to get involved in such acts, are they really christian? If Jesus never did it, why would a follower of his?

    Only one religious Group on the earth lives to do exactly what Jesus says to do. Jehovah's witnesses. And that means the gate is pretty narrow.

    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Remind me of the remaining details again. If it is Alexander the Great again, I've addressed this numerous times. Yeah, yeah, hairy he-goats and such. Which then has a section later on that translates what these mean, even though many great religious scholars believe this was edited after the fact to make it seem like the prophecy was true.

    It's all a moot point anyway. The prophecy is false. Tyre has been rebuilt. The whole premise of the prophecy is that Tyre was to be destroyed and never rebuilt, which is untrue.
    Zechariah 9:4
    Look! Jehovah himself will dispossess her, and into the sea he will certainly strike down her military force; and in the fire she herself will be devoured.

    This part of the Trye prophecy came true when Alexander the great opposed the Island city of tyre. Tyrian military was demolished at sea(8000 soldiers), and when the inhabitants of the land resisted, the greeks set the city on fire.

    The premise of the prophecy is "a drying yard for dragnets is what she will become in the midst of the sea" After the nations pummel her. So logic indicates that before the nations pummeled her, she was much more than a drying yard for dragnets. Why? Because God said Tyre would BECOME A DRYING YARD for dragnets. That implies it was not always that way . So for Tyre to be rebuilt as you say, it would need to become what it was before it was just a drying yard for dragnets, or as you put it, Lebanon's 4th leading sea port, called sour.

    And you can't say i'm twisting rebuilt here, because the dictionary agreed with the bible's line of reasoning concerning the word.

    rebuild
    1. To build again.
    2. To make extensive structural repairs on.
    3. To remodel or make extensive changes in: tried to rebuild society.
    This applies aptly to the prophecy with no twisting involved.

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    Originally Posted by TunerAddict
    Is it me or does Lyfe seem to say crazier things as this thread gets longer?
    Word? You said the craziest thing I ever heard "how do we know this is not the matrix?"

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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Word? You said the craziest thing I ever heard "how do we know this is not the matrix?"
    How do you know? You wouldn't. Thats the beauty of the question. It is in admitting that we know nothing that we can finally see the world as it is.

    You can't prove that it is or it isn't. You cannot. Thats the beauty of it, I'll say it again.

    I'm sorry that simple philosophical statements fly over your head. I didn't put up those barriers, you did out of fear.

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    Originally Posted by TunerAddict
    How do you know? You wouldn't. Thats the beauty of the question. It is in admitting that we know nothing that we can finally see the world as it is.

    You can't prove that it is or it isn't. You cannot. Thats the beauty of it, I'll say it again.

    I'm sorry that simple philosophical statements fly over your head. I didn't put up those barriers, you did out of fear.
    So I am to sit here and philosophize about computers becoming smart enough to create and sustain their own life, and use us as their batteries? And no one has ever come out of this state of being? No Oracle, no Morpheus, no Neo? Trinity? Why would I do this? For the sake of being a philosopher?

    What I do know is I have read bible prophecy, and the things it pertains too has happend in our present reality. In our present reality, all the things Jesus spoke of happening in Mathew 24:3-14 have happened in our lifetime. This is our reality. Until someone proves otherwise, we're stuck in it.

    Everything else is fantasy and philosophy. You cool with that, so be it. But don't dare try to assert that I have a barrier up for fear because I tend to deal with what is, as opposed to what you think could be.

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    It's funny with all these bible prophecies coming true...aren't the waters supposed to turn to blood as well as the moon, a martyr supposed to die...something about the man who killed Jesus finally gets to die...something about a lamb breaking a seventh seal...

    I can just imagine how the slaves on the plantations feeling about these prophecies...

    [ Imagine a slavery plantation, and church services have just ended. It's now Monday morning...slaves being called up to go work in the fields. You just spent yesterday talking about how the glory of GOD is upon you because you are alive, and how you should be thankful..for GOD and the white man brining your heathen ass to America...for saving your soul......next thing you know a lamp breaks in master's house...and you get blamed for it because you are simply the first negro they see]

    I can just picture that one slave whose getting the **** whipped out of him thinking...

    "This Jesus **** ain't workin"

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    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    It's funny with all these bible prophecies coming true...aren't the waters supposed to turn to blood as well as the moon, a martyr supposed to die...something about the man who killed Jesus finally gets to die...something about a lamb breaking a seventh seal..
    No. Not going to happen in a literal sense.

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    Jehovah's Witnesses have been prophesisng the end of the world for a long time now. During the early years of their history, they consistently looked to specific dates-1874, 1878, 1881, 1910, 1914, 1918, 1920, 1925, 1975 and others-as having definite eschatological significance. But all of them failed. They have a long history of making prophecies and then changing them after they proved false. When will they learn?

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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Jehovah's Witnesses have been prophesisng the end of the world for a long time now. During the early years of their history, they consistently looked to specific dates-1874, 1878, 1881, 1910, 1914, 1918, 1920, 1925, 1975 and others-as having definite eschatological significance. But all of them failed. They have a long history of making prophecies and then changing them after they proved false. When will they learn?
    How do Jehovah’s Witnesses arrive at their explanation of the Bible?

    A key factor is that the Witnesses really believe that the Bible is God’s Word and that what it contains is there for our instruction. (2 Tim. 3:16, 17; Rom. 15:4; 1 Cor. 10:11) So they do not resort to philosophical arguments to evade its clear statements of truth or to justify the way of life of people who have abandoned its moral standards.

    In pointing out the meaning of symbolic language in the Bible, they let the Bible provide its own explanation, instead of giving their theories as to its significance. (1 Cor. 2:13) Indications as to the meaning of symbolic terms are usually found in other parts of the Bible. (As an example, see Revelation 21:1; then, regarding the meaning of "sea," read Isaiah 57:20. To identify "the Lamb" referred to in Revelation 14:1, see John 1:29 and 1 Peter 1:19.)

    As for fulfillment of prophecy, they apply what Jesus said about being alert to events that correspond to what was foretold. (Luke 21:29-31; compare 2 Peter 1:16-19.) Conscientiously they point out those events and draw attention to what the Bible indicates they mean.

    Jesus said that he would have on earth a "faithful and discreet slave" (his anointed followers viewed as a group), through which agency he would provide spiritual food to those making up the household of faith. (Matt. 24:45-47) Jehovah’s Witnesses recognize that arrangement. As was true of first-century Christians, they look to the governing body of that "slave" class to resolve difficult questions—not on the basis of human wisdom, but by drawing on their knowledge of God’s Word and his dealings with his servants, and with the help of God’s spirit, for which they earnestly pray.—Acts 15:1-29; 16:4, 5.


    Why
    have there been changes over the years in the teachings of Jehovah’s Witnesses?

    The Bible shows that Jehovah enables his servants to understand his purpose in a progressive manner. Prov 4:18 But the path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established. ( compare John 16:12) Thus, the prophets who were divinely inspired to write portions of the Bible did not understand the meaning of everything that they wrote. (Dan. 12:8, 9; 1 Pet. 1:10-12) The apostles of Jesus Christ realized that there was much they did not understand in their time. (Acts 1:6, 7; 1 Cor. 13:9-12) The Bible shows that there would be a great increase in knowledge of the truth during "the time of the end." (Dan. 12:4) Increased knowledge often requires adjustments in one’s thinking. Jehovah’s Witnesses are willing humbly to make such adjustments.


    Why do Jehovah’s Witnesses preach from house to house?
    Jesus foretold for our day this work: "This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come." He also instructed his followers: "Go . . . and make disciples of people of all the nations."—Matt. 24:14; 28:19.
    When Jesus sent out his early disciples, he directed them to go to the homes of the people. (Matt. 10:7, 11-13) The apostle Paul said regarding his ministry: "I did not hold back from telling you any of the things that were profitable nor from teaching you publicly and from house to house."—Acts 20:20, 21; see also Acts 5:42.

    The message that the Witnesses proclaim involves the lives of people; they want to be careful to miss no one. (Zeph. 2:2, 3) Their calls are motivated by love—first for God, also for their neighbor.
    A conference of religious leaders in Spain noted this: "Perhaps [the churches] are excessively neglectful about that which precisely constitutes the greatest preoccupation of the Witnesses—the home visit, which comes within the apostolic methodology of the primitive church. While the churches, on not a few occasions, limit themselves to constructing their temples, ringing their bells to attract the people and to preaching inside their places of worship, [the Witnesses] follow the apostolic tactic of going from house to house and of taking advantage of every occasion to witness."—El Catolicismo, Bogotá, Colombia, September 14, 1975, p. 14

    But why do the Witnesses call repeatedly even at homes of people who do not share their faith?They do not force their message on others. But they know that people move to new residences and that the circumstances of people change. Today a person may be too busy to listen; another time he may gladly take the time. One member of a household may not be interested, but others may be. People themselves change; serious problems in life may stimulate an awareness of spiritual need.—See also Isaiah 6:8, 11, 12.

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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Why[/B] have there been changes over the years in the teachings of Jehovah’s Witnesses?

    The Bible shows that Jehovah enables his servants to understand his purpose in a progressive manner. Prov 4:18 But the path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established. ( compare John 16:12) Thus, the prophets who were divinely inspired to write portions of the Bible did not understand the meaning of everything that they wrote. (Dan. 12:8, 9; 1 Pet. 1:10-12) The apostles of Jesus Christ realized that there was much they did not understand in their time. (Acts 1:6, 7; 1 Cor. 13:9-12) The Bible shows that there would be a great increase in knowledge of the truth during "the time of the end." (Dan. 12:4) Increased knowledge often requires adjustments in one’s thinking. Jehovah’s Witnesses are willing humbly to make such adjustments.
    In other words, covering your ass when you realize the prophecies to be false. Keep believing if you want. It aint coming. You will have wasted your entire life and the lives of your children.

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