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Thread: Explaining Evolution And Why GOD is NOT LIKELY

  1. #46
    Veteran Paul1355's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    There is more proof of evolution than God.

    That's not what atheist and agnostic astronomers say, read the quotes i put when i was talkin with knickfan4realz. After much research they came to a conclusion that a Creator made the most sense and that the Atheist view is a belief of nothing, not my words their words, so dont blast me for sayin this.

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    Originally Posted by TunerAddict
    Once again you are stuck in a black and white world. There is no such thing as right and wrong. It is all up to the individual. The origination of right and wrong came from people being negatively affected, i.e. lied to, stolen from, killed. These concepts of good and bad actions were created from mans fear and thus laws were created against them. Thus the belief in right and wrong were created when wrong became the things that there were laws against.

    However, aside from this fact, you saying that Hitler wasn't one of us? He was. He justified his actions. Do we agree with them? No. But to him it was the right thing to do just as you and your fellow bible thumper continue on to preach your religion to us because you believe its right to do so, that you are indeed saving us, or perhaps even defending your deity. However, it does not make you right, as there is no universal concept of a right action.

    Lyfe, the bible is not evidence for he last god damn time. Saying "I showed it to you when I quoted the bible" means jack. Its not a credible source. Sorry. Universities don't consider it a source of ethos, thus I cannot look at it as such. Nothing is proven. You're forgetting. You cannot prove anything from the bible. You were no there, you do not have physical evidence, and even if you had been there and had evidence, can we be so certain that you are not mistaken?

    Faith is everything and yet it is nothing. There are no right or wrong answers. Everything is justifiable to someone and there is never a way to 100% prove something. You may have evidence or something that supports it, but for you to claim that you have proof or that something is indeed so, is an extremely arrogant and ignorant statement.

    In conclusion, while I do enjoy to debate my own personal feelings with others about religion and make valid arguments, I find it rather hard to do so when whatever I say is simply either ignored or thought of as ludicrous. The main problem with your sides of the argument is that your views are overly arrogant and become situations of talking down to Realz and myself as though we are children. You look at us as fools or something along that line when I do think the opposite has clearly been proven. Or atleast, we can think it has, but you cannot really measure intelligence, or even define it really. I guess what I'm trying to say is that you should not take something as fact and deny everything against it, the truth is that an open mind, one of understanding and the yearning to learn more is better suited for seeing the world than one that is closed, even though it is certainly much safer and comforting. As men, we are forever left to question everything, and not doing so is denying our own existence.

    first thing this post wasnt intended for you but since u wanted to back up knickfan4realz heres my response.
    1) Hitler killed millions of people using gas chambers, torture, starvation every method u can think of back then and you say he's just as good as all of us and should be considered the same as us, law or not?
    2) There is a seperation between good and bad or good and evil. Hitler, Stalin, Bin Laden, Hussein and his sons, Nero, etc these men are in their own class which everyone refers to them as bad/evil because their actions were with no remorse and no reason to kill innocent people for joy and gratification.
    3) Look at our country and look at places in Africa...we created laws becuase we realized what good and bad was and we tried putting an end to the bad as much we could by making laws. Look at places in Africa there is no law, which means that every action is the same as any other action...these places are in chaos..there is genocide every year, innocent villages burnt down, women raped and boys kidnapped and brain washed to kill innocents, because they dont feel its wrong. And your telling me that these choices should have the same consequence as me or you living a peaceful life? Your saying that one man can kill,rape,torture, everything and should deserve the same fate as a person who has never done anything of that nature?
    4) Think about its not logical nor does it make sense. if you have a heart you would see its not about belief but about common sense, there is a right and wrong and some have been brainwashed from their youth to not understand that and i pray that they do have a choice one day to make a good decision and realize what and individual is capable of when they dont know right from wrong...because the result is those infamous people i mentioned before..hitler,hussein etc.
    5) when you say a person is mature how would you describe that? Maturaty is basically when a person knows the right decision to make in any situation and knowing right from wrong with wrong resulting in a bad decison and bad consequence. You wouldnt know what maturaty is because every action you make is right and therefore you will eventually suffer a consequence because you dont realize that some choices result in nothing positive. You make a choice always thinking your correct just like Hitler and Huessein did and now look at them and what they have accomplished.
    6) conclusion, there is a difference and saying there isnt means you are truely lost and have no feelings what so ever. To say that those men i mentioned deserve the same fate as me and you is just like i said that you have no heart and no remorse and no emotion and think every choice you make is the right one becuase in the end you feel it will only benefit yourself. And this is why many people look to Evolution as yourself for an answer, becuase it allows you to do whatever you want to do morally.

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    Originally Posted by TunerAddict
    Lyfe, the bible is not evidence for he last god damn time. Saying "I showed it to you when I quoted the bible" means jack. Its not a credible source. Sorry. Universities don't consider it a source of ethos, thus I cannot look at it as such. Nothing is proven. You're forgetting. You cannot prove anything from the bible. You were no there, you do not have physical evidence, and even if you had been there and had evidence, can we be so certain that you are not mistaken?
    Well it's easier for me to believe in a book that has no historical, scientific, or prophetic inaccuracies, than to listen to a man who says that nothing can be proven, yet hinges on Universities saying the Bible is not a source of ethos, therefore You cannot believe it, therefore PROVING that your faith, even though you should have none as a person who believes nothing can be proven, rests with University science.

    Fact is, Alexander the great did defeat the medes and persians. Fact is, Alexander the great was eventually replaced by his four generals just as the angel in Daniel said would happen. Fact is, those who heeded Jesus warning knew to flee Jerusalem in 66 ce and were saved because of it. Fact, when Job says the earth is a sphere, that held up. When Isaiah said it hangs on nothingness, that held up. When Jehovah said Babylon will be desolate, and not be inhabited thousands of years ago, guess what? THAT HELD UP!

    Fact. Mike D'antoni is the Knicks head coach. Fact, Stephon Marubury is in his last year of his current contract. Fact, Isaiah Thomas no longer is president or coach of the Knicks. Fact, Patrick Ewing retired years ago. Fact, Micheal Jackson made the thriller and off the wall albums. Fact Jim Dolan owns the Knicks.

    Would a rational person argue the latter portion of what I just wrote and say "none of this can be proven"? No, not a rational person. So then why do so many rational people debate the former part of the facts based on the bible, when they are just as much fact as the latter? Why should I not believe a book that is based on facts, in favor of say scientific books that often need to be revised when former facts are disproven? Why would a rationally thinking person favor a book or theory that will need to be revised due to inaccurasies, over one that never produces such inaccuracies?

    Let's just say the bible was not inspired by God, and man really inspired it. Is it safe to assume that their should be quite a few more volumes to it, or at least a few revised changed viewpoints, based on the changing times and discoveries?I mean, even the smartest of smartest scientists have had to do so with their knowledge, you mean to tell me that a book with 40 different writers supposedly inspired by an invisible sky daddy would not also need to be revised at some point? Why would some of the other writers of the other books not disagree with say Job? Cleary the earth being round was not a known fact, It could not be proven then. People disagreed. Why would not one of the earlier or latter writers just happen to disagree with Job? Why does Isaiah say it hangs on nothingness, basically agreeing with Job, when they had never met? Why does the bible, no matter the version or language, have the same theme, since it's full inception? We have scientists whom most of you brag are of the most brilliant minds life has ever put forth basically, who disagree constantly. How could these 40 different writers have so much harmony in relative primitive times compared to ours? Like did Job and Isaiah have free mobile to mobile to keep their stories in line? Text messaging? All this harmony, schemed up?

    Would you knowingly marry a woman who you can't seem to ever fully understand, has fibbed quite a bit, and even cheats on you?

    Or would you marry the one that who wants you to completely understand her, never lies to you no matter what, and is truly faithful?
    Last edited by Knicks4lyfe; Jul 19, 2008 at 19:05.

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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Why should I not believe a book that is based on facts, in favor of say scientific books that often need to be revised when former facts are disproven?
    If the Bible was based on true facts, it would have been used in school as history book. But it's not. Because it's not supported by evidence. That is why belief is one thing and science is a completely different thing. Stop trying to put an equal between the two.

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    Originally Posted by rady
    If the Bible was based on true facts, it would have been used in school as history book. But it's not. Because it's not supported by evidence. That is why belief is one thing and science is a completely different thing. Stop trying to put an equal between the two.
    Actually the bible is based on facts, problem with it being in schools is if it were in schools, then you'd be promoting religion. And we all know you can't put religion in the schools in this great country... unless of course you mask it and say it's based on science... LIKE EVOLUTION! That is perfectly ok.

    And I challenge you to check one of the history books in these schools. Look up the life and demise of Alexander the great. See if in fact it was his army who defeated the medes and persians. See if in fact it was his four generals, and not any of his children or family that finally stood up in place of him as is the custom, upon his demise.

    Once you gather this information, see if in fact this was told in prophetic terms before these history books were thought of being put in these schools, and see which book prophesied about it, EXACTLY how it would happen.

    Then after you do, ask yourself is the bible based on fact again.
    Last edited by Knicks4lyfe; Jul 19, 2008 at 19:45.

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    Default Since ya'll don't wanna do it...

    I will!

    Alexander the Great

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    Alexander the Great ([Only registered and activated users can see links. ]: Αλέξανδρος ο Μέγας or Μέγας Aλέξανδρος,[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] Megas Alexandros; [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] 356 BC – [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] 323 BC),[Only registered and activated users can see links. ][Only registered and activated users can see links. ] also known as Alexander III of Macedon ([Only registered and activated users can see links. ]: Αλέξανδρος Γ' ο Μακεδών) was an ancient [Only registered and activated users can see links. ][Only registered and activated users can see links. ][Only registered and activated users can see links. ] king ([Only registered and activated users can see links. ]) of [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (336–323 BC). He was one of the most successful military commanders in history, and is presumed undefeated in battle. By the time of his death, he had conquered most of the world known to the ancient Greeks.
    Alexander assumed the kingship of Macedon following the death of his father [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]. Philip had unified[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] most of the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] of mainland [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] under Macedonian hegemony in a federation called the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ].[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] After reconfirming Macedonian rule by quashing a rebellion of southern Greek [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], and staging a short but bloody excursion against Macedon's northern neighbors, ALEXANDER SET OUT EAST AGAINST THE [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], WHICH HE DEFEATED AND OVERTHREW. His conquests including [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], and [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], and extended the boundaries of his own [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] as far as [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], [Only registered and activated users can see links. ].

    Now where would his power eventually go? WOULD THE BIBLE HOLD UP?

    Legacy and division of the empire

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    After Alexander's death, in 323 BC, the rule of his Empire was given to Alexander's half-brother [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] and Alexander's son Alexander IV. However, since Philip was apparently feeble-minded and the son of Alexander still a baby, two regents were named in [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (who had received Alexander's ring at his death) and [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (who may have been the one mentioned as successor by Alexander), although Perdiccas quickly managed to take sole power.
    Perdiccas soon eliminated several of his opponents, killing about 30 (Diodorus Siculus), and at the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] named former generals of Alexander as [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] of the various regions of his Empire. In 321 BC Perdiccas was assassinated by his own troops during his conflict with [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], leading to the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], in which [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] was named as the new regent, and the satrapies again shared between the various generals. From that time, Alexander's officers were focused on the explicit formation of rival monarchies and territorial states.
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    Now let's go to the tail of the tape.. The fictional book the bible says this about a certain King of Greece in the fictional book of Daniel.

    Dan 8:3 When I raised my eyes, then I saw, and, look! a ram standing before the watercourse, and it had two horns. And the two horns were tall, but the one was taller than the other, and the taller was the one that came up afterward.4 I saw the ram making thrusts to the west and to the north and to the south, and no wild beasts kept standing before it, and there was no one doing any delivering out of its hand. And it did according to its will, and it put on great airs.
    5 And I, for my part, kept on considering, and, look! there was a male of the goats coming from the sunset upon the surface of the whole earth, and it was not touching the earth. And as regards the he-goat, there was a conspicuous horn between its eyes. 6 And it kept coming all the way to the ram possessing the two horns, which I had seen standing before the watercourse; and it came running toward it in its powerful rage.
    7 And I saw it coming into close touch with the ram, and it began showing bitterness toward it, and it proceeded to strike down the ram and to break its two horns, and there proved to be no power in the ram to stand before it. So it threw it to the earth and trampled it down, and the ram proved to have no deliverer out of its hand.
    8 And the male of the goats, for its part, put on great airs to an extreme; but as soon as it became mighty, the great horn was broken, and there proceeded to come up conspicuously four instead of it, toward the four winds of the heavens.

    TRANSLATION:


    DAN 8:20 “The ram that you saw possessing the two horns [stands for] the kings of Me΄di·a and Persia. 21 And the hairy he-goat [stands for] the king of Greece; and as for the great horn that was between its eyes, it [stands for] the first king. 22 And that one having been broken, so that there were four that finally stood up instead of it, there are four kingdoms from [his] nation that will stand up, but not with his power.

    DAMMIT! THAT SOUNDS EERILY LIKE IT IS IN THE HISTORY BOOKS! Bible not a book of facts you say?

  7. #52
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    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    first thing this post wasnt intended for you but since u wanted to back up knickfan4realz heres my response.
    1) Hitler killed millions of people using gas chambers, torture, starvation every method u can think of back then and you say he's just as good as all of us and should be considered the same as us, law or not?
    2) There is a seperation between good and bad or good and evil. Hitler, Stalin, Bin Laden, Hussein and his sons, Nero, etc these men are in their own class which everyone refers to them as bad/evil because their actions were with no remorse and no reason to kill innocent people for joy and gratification.
    3) Look at our country and look at places in Africa...we created laws becuase we realized what good and bad was and we tried putting an end to the bad as much we could by making laws. Look at places in Africa there is no law, which means that every action is the same as any other action...these places are in chaos..there is genocide every year, innocent villages burnt down, women raped and boys kidnapped and brain washed to kill innocents, because they dont feel its wrong. And your telling me that these choices should have the same consequence as me or you living a peaceful life? Your saying that one man can kill,rape,torture, everything and should deserve the same fate as a person who has never done anything of that nature?
    4) Think about its not logical nor does it make sense. if you have a heart you would see its not about belief but about common sense, there is a right and wrong and some have been brainwashed from their youth to not understand that and i pray that they do have a choice one day to make a good decision and realize what and individual is capable of when they dont know right from wrong...because the result is those infamous people i mentioned before..hitler,hussein etc.
    5) when you say a person is mature how would you describe that? Maturaty is basically when a person knows the right decision to make in any situation and knowing right from wrong with wrong resulting in a bad decison and bad consequence. You wouldnt know what maturaty is because every action you make is right and therefore you will eventually suffer a consequence because you dont realize that some choices result in nothing positive. You make a choice always thinking your correct just like Hitler and Huessein did and now look at them and what they have accomplished.
    6) conclusion, there is a difference and saying there isnt means you are truely lost and have no feelings what so ever. To say that those men i mentioned deserve the same fate as me and you is just like i said that you have no heart and no remorse and no emotion and think every choice you make is the right one becuase in the end you feel it will only benefit yourself. And this is why many people look to Evolution as yourself for an answer, becuase it allows you to do whatever you want to do morally.
    Lol. Your an idiot. You obviously can't grasp the fact that morals are created with the times. Who are we to decide what is right for everyone? Right and wrong change and are not absolutes.

    And lol at the actions of no positives. Idiot. There is always two sides. ALWAYS. Lets look at your fascination with Hitler. He killed lots of Jews. Whats positive? How about the current attitude of people that want to prevent such genocides from reoccurring? So it did no good? There are always good and bads to every single occurrence. You're obviously beyond reasoning with. I can't stand to talk to someone who is just so ignorant. YOU are not the decider of right and wrong for other. Just because YOU think something is one way does not mean that it is so. And yes, of course I know that me saying this is almost hypocritical, but that is where belief comes in. I believe this as much as you believe your arrogant, ignorant view. You aren't right for others, but you may be right to yourself. Just remember that, take care of yourself and get off your high horse and stop the preaching. It makes you look like an elitist when you think you can define right and wrong for other people. But hey, you know what they say, ignorance is bliss. Damn you must be in such bliss.

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    Originally Posted by TunerAddict
    Lol. Your an idiot. You obviously can't grasp the fact that morals are created with the times. Who are we to decide what is right for everyone? Right and wrong change and are not absolutes.

    And lol at the actions of no positives. Idiot. There is always two sides. ALWAYS. Lets look at your fascination with Hitler. He killed lots of Jews. Whats positive? How about the current attitude of people that want to prevent such genocides from reoccurring? So it did no good? There are always good and bads to every single occurrence. You're obviously beyond reasoning with. I can't stand to talk to someone who is just so ignorant. YOU are not the decider of right and wrong for other. Just because YOU think something is one way does not mean that it is so. And yes, of course I know that me saying this is almost hypocritical, but that is where belief comes in. I believe this as much as you believe your arrogant, ignorant view. You aren't right for others, but you may be right to yourself. Just remember that, take care of yourself and get off your high horse and stop the preaching. It makes you look like an elitist when you think you can define right and wrong for other people. But hey, you know what they say, ignorance is bliss. Damn you must be in such bliss.
    turner you have once again failed to prove an argument...callin me an idot just makes u look like a fool becuase thats the only way u can try to prove a point. And the first thing i bolded that u said goes against everything u said. You said that there isnt a bad and good to eveything its just a choice... and now u said that there is bad and good to everything ALWAYS which means yes u contradicted yourself and proved my point thanks for that. Good one small brain. And copying wut i say and saying it to me by saying im all for myself is again foolish becuase thats wut i said about u when i brought up the fact that atheism makes you want to do what u feel is right morally, its not my belief its yours pal. and that is the truth about Atheism you cant beat around it but ill lay off that for u because i can tell it's making you upset. I never said that every bad doesnt have a good i was talking about events that were bad in every way possible. And saying that the Holocaust was a poistive...WUT!?!?! Yes people do try to stop genocides, with the Holocaust or not people would still try to prevent it moron its murder on a catastrophic scale do u think people are helping in Darfur just because the Holocaust??? NO because genocide is what i said before murder on a catastrophic scale. You ask any man or women from parts of Africa even watch eye witness accounts from people who survived the Holocaust are they gonna say "yes there are positives to it"??? Nothing was positive out of these horrible events! just murder and more murder and i forgot something...more murder. If the Holocaust didnt happen years ago and we still saw a country with genocide do think we'd sit around and say "oh it isnt that bad lets see what happens" NO because that my friend is an evil and wrong decision made by the leader causing the genocide and you for thinking that some good will come out of it.
    Saying im arrogant is just u arguing with yourself cuz im not the selfish one. Do you know what us "arrogant" christians do before we go to sleep...we pray and we dont pray for ourselves, we pray for people like you, becuase your blinded by secularism and what the world thinks is right and what you think is right morally. And praying for someone like you, who i dislike completely, proves that my belief is not arrogant nor selfish, yours is. HAH my belief arrogant? u know what arrogant means kid, making claims with overbearing SELF importance, your belief is all about yourself so dont get it twisted when u try knockin on my faith and belief because your only making yourself look like a complete fool. End of discussion.

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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    I will!

    Alexander the Great

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    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (338 BC) – [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (338 BC) – [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (334 BC) – [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (334 BC) – [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (334 BC) – [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (333 BC) – [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (333 BC) – [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (332 BC) – [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (332 BC) – [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (331 BC) – [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (330 BC) – [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (327 BC) – [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (327 BC) – [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (326 BC) – [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (325 BC)
    Alexander the Great ([Only registered and activated users can see links. ]: Αλέξανδρος ο Μέγας or Μέγας Aλέξανδρος,[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] Megas Alexandros; [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] 356 BC – [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] 323 BC),[Only registered and activated users can see links. ][Only registered and activated users can see links. ] also known as Alexander III of Macedon ([Only registered and activated users can see links. ]: Αλέξανδρος Γ' ο Μακεδών) was an ancient [Only registered and activated users can see links. ][Only registered and activated users can see links. ][Only registered and activated users can see links. ] king ([Only registered and activated users can see links. ]) of [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (336–323 BC). He was one of the most successful military commanders in history, and is presumed undefeated in battle. By the time of his death, he had conquered most of the world known to the ancient Greeks.
    Alexander assumed the kingship of Macedon following the death of his father [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]. Philip had unified[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] most of the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] of mainland [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] under Macedonian hegemony in a federation called the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ].[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] After reconfirming Macedonian rule by quashing a rebellion of southern Greek [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], and staging a short but bloody excursion against Macedon's northern neighbors, ALEXANDER SET OUT EAST AGAINST THE [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], WHICH HE DEFEATED AND OVERTHREW. His conquests including [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], and [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], and extended the boundaries of his own [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] as far as [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], [Only registered and activated users can see links. ].

    Now where would his power eventually go? WOULD THE BIBLE HOLD UP?

    Legacy and division of the empire

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    Coin of Alexander bearing an [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] inscription.



    The Hellenistic world view after Alexander: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] of [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (276-194 BC), incorporating information from the campaigns of Alexander and his successors.[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


    After Alexander's death, in 323 BC, the rule of his Empire was given to Alexander's half-brother [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] and Alexander's son Alexander IV. However, since Philip was apparently feeble-minded and the son of Alexander still a baby, two regents were named in [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (who had received Alexander's ring at his death) and [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (who may have been the one mentioned as successor by Alexander), although Perdiccas quickly managed to take sole power.
    Perdiccas soon eliminated several of his opponents, killing about 30 (Diodorus Siculus), and at the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] named former generals of Alexander as [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] of the various regions of his Empire. In 321 BC Perdiccas was assassinated by his own troops during his conflict with [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], leading to the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], in which [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] was named as the new regent, and the satrapies again shared between the various generals. From that time, Alexander's officers were focused on the explicit formation of rival monarchies and territorial states.
    Ultimately, the conflict was settled after the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] in [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] in 301 BC. Alexander's empire was divided at first into four major portions: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] ruled in [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] in [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] in [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] and Persia, and [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] in the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] and [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]. [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] ruled for a while in [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] and [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] but was eventually defeated by the other generals at Ipsus (301 BC). Control over Indian territory passed to [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], the first [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] emperor, who further expanded his dominions after a settlement with Seleucus.


    Now let's go to the tail of the tape.. The fictional book the bible says this about a certain King of Greece in the fictional book of Daniel.

    Dan 8:3 When I raised my eyes, then I saw, and, look! a ram standing before the watercourse, and it had two horns. And the two horns were tall, but the one was taller than the other, and the taller was the one that came up afterward.4 I saw the ram making thrusts to the west and to the north and to the south, and no wild beasts kept standing before it, and there was no one doing any delivering out of its hand. And it did according to its will, and it put on great airs.
    5 And I, for my part, kept on considering, and, look! there was a male of the goats coming from the sunset upon the surface of the whole earth, and it was not touching the earth. And as regards the he-goat, there was a conspicuous horn between its eyes. 6 And it kept coming all the way to the ram possessing the two horns, which I had seen standing before the watercourse; and it came running toward it in its powerful rage.
    7 And I saw it coming into close touch with the ram, and it began showing bitterness toward it, and it proceeded to strike down the ram and to break its two horns, and there proved to be no power in the ram to stand before it. So it threw it to the earth and trampled it down, and the ram proved to have no deliverer out of its hand.
    8 And the male of the goats, for its part, put on great airs to an extreme; but as soon as it became mighty, the great horn was broken, and there proceeded to come up conspicuously four instead of it, toward the four winds of the heavens.

    TRANSLATION:


    DAN 8:20 “The ram that you saw possessing the two horns [stands for] the kings of Me´di·a and Persia. 21 And the hairy he-goat [stands for] the king of Greece; and as for the great horn that was between its eyes, it [stands for] the first king. 22 And that one having been broken, so that there were four that finally stood up instead of it, there are four kingdoms from [his] nation that will stand up, but not with his power.

    DAMMIT! THAT SOUNDS EERILY LIKE IT IS IN THE HISTORY BOOKS! Bible not a book of facts you say?
    1.) The Daniel quotes are about rams and goats. It is up to interpretation as to what it is truly about. Now, if the Bible had actually said "Alexnader the Great's empire would be divided into four" before Alexander the Great existed, then I would agree that would be a true prophecy. But tieing "hairy he-goats" and "rams possessing two horns" to Alexander the Great is a stretch.

    2.) It is widely believed the Book of Daniel was written between 200-100 BC. Alexander the Great existed between 356-323 BC. So, the book of Daniel was written after Alexnader the Great existed. It's easy to make prophecies and call them accurate after the events already heppened.


    In the early 1500's, Nostradamus' made this prediction:

    "In the year of the new century and nine months, From the sky will come a great King of Terror... The sky will burn at forty-five degrees. Fire approaches the great new city..."

    "In the city of York there will be a great collapse, 2 twin brothers torn apart by chaos While the fortress falls the great leader will succumb Third big war will begin when the big city is burning"

    Nostradamus must be God. These are accurate prophecies of September 11th. This is also much clearer and easier to interpret than the Book of Daniel quotes you listed.

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    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    That's not what atheist and agnostic astronomers say, read the quotes i put when i was talkin with knickfan4realz. After much research they came to a conclusion that a Creator made the most sense and that the Atheist view is a belief of nothing, not my words their words, so dont blast me for sayin this.
    Maybe I missed it, but where are there quotes from the majority of athiest and agnostic astronomers stating the proof of God? If you are referring to the creation of the universe discussion, then you are talking about the Big Bang Theory. Which does not require a creator. Plus, if the universe has a begining and end, and somebody must have created it, then who created the creator? He must of had a beginning and an end?

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    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    turner you have once again failed to prove an argument...callin me an idot just makes u look like a fool becuase thats the only way u can try to prove a point. And the first thing i bolded that u said goes against everything u said. You said that there isnt a bad and good to eveything its just a choice... and now u said that there is bad and good to everything ALWAYS which means yes u contradicted yourself and proved my point thanks for that. Good one small brain. And copying wut i say and saying it to me by saying im all for myself is again foolish becuase thats wut i said about u when i brought up the fact that atheism makes you want to do what u feel is right morally, its not my belief its yours pal. and that is the truth about Atheism you cant beat around it but ill lay off that for u because i can tell it's making you upset. I never said that every bad doesnt have a good i was talking about events that were bad in every way possible. And saying that the Holocaust was a poistive...WUT!?!?! Yes people do try to stop genocides, with the Holocaust or not people would still try to prevent it moron its murder on a catastrophic scale do u think people are helping in Darfur just because the Holocaust??? NO because genocide is what i said before murder on a catastrophic scale. You ask any man or women from parts of Africa even watch eye witness accounts from people who survived the Holocaust are they gonna say "yes there are positives to it"??? Nothing was positive out of these horrible events! just murder and more murder and i forgot something...more murder. If the Holocaust didnt happen years ago and we still saw a country with genocide do think we'd sit around and say "oh it isnt that bad lets see what happens" NO because that my friend is an evil and wrong decision made by the leader causing the genocide and you for thinking that some good will come out of it.
    Saying im arrogant is just u arguing with yourself cuz im not the selfish one. Do you know what us "arrogant" christians do before we go to sleep...we pray and we dont pray for ourselves, we pray for people like you, becuase your blinded by secularism and what the world thinks is right and what you think is right morally. And praying for someone like you, who i dislike completely, proves that my belief is not arrogant nor selfish, yours is. HAH my belief arrogant? u know what arrogant means kid, making claims with overbearing SELF importance, your belief is all about yourself so dont get it twisted when u try knockin on my faith and belief because your only making yourself look like a complete fool. End of discussion.
    You obviously aren't comprehending my basic statements.

    1) I said good and bad depends. Its not absolute. It depends on the individual.

    2) I didn't say the Holocaust was good. I said there were two sides to everything, refuting your assumption that there are purely negative events. There are always positive that come from what appear to be purely negative events.

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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    1.) The Daniel quotes are about rams and goats. It is up to interpretation as to what it is truly about. Now, if the Bible had actually said "Alexnader the Great's empire would be divided into four" before Alexander the Great existed, then I would agree that would be a true prophecy. But tieing "hairy he-goats" and "rams possessing two horns" to Alexander the Great is a stretch.
    But the nastrodamus quote is about fallen sky Kings at 45 degrees, In the city of york(which is where exactly?) and that is perfectly legible to you?
    Meanwhile the angel in Daniel leaves no interpretation for us, he explains, READ AGAIN.
    DAN 8:20 “The ram that you saw possessing the two horns [stands for] the kings of Me΄di·a and Persia. 21 And the hairy he-goat [stands for] the king of Greece; and as for the great horn that was between its eyes, it [stands for] the FIRST KING(Alexander the great). 22 And that one having been broken(Alexander's death), so that there were four that finally stood up instead of it, there are four kingdoms from [his] nation that will stand up, but not with his power.

    The interpretation in this prophecy sets it apart from Nastrodamus', as I will point out once I reach it.

    What other FIRST KING of Greece defeated the medes and persian empire and suddenly died at the height of his power and his four general eventually took over the major parts of his Kingdom? Are you THAT driven to disprove the bible, even in a case you clearly cannot? Listen, if you find another first King of Greece who defeated the Medes and Persians and died suddenly, and his four generals took over his kingdom OTHER THAN ALEX THE GREAT, I will never bring up the bible with you again. But since I know you can't lol...


    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    2.) It is widely believed the Book of Daniel was written between 200-100 BC. Alexander the Great existed between 356-323 BC. So, the book of Daniel was written after Alexnader the Great existed. It's easy to make prophecies and call them accurate after the events already heppened.
    Widely believed by whom? It appears that he lived during Nebuchadnezzars time by the writings and Knowledge he has of how things are run during that time. WHAT FACT THAT IS WAS WRITTEN BETWEEN THOSE YEARS DO YOU HAVE? And do you not think the jews would have quickly discredited the book of Daniel if they thought that? I mean they killed Jesus for less than what a false document in their faith would have meant!!! If you have no solid proof, you are choosing to believe what you want out of choice. Funny coming from an I need facts kinda guy...

    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    In the early 1500's, Nostradamus' made this prediction:

    "In the year of the new century and nine months, From the sky will come a great King of Terror... The sky will burn at forty-five degrees. Fire approaches the great new city..."

    "In the city of York there will be a great collapse, 2 twin brothers torn apart by chaos While the fortress falls the great leader will succumb Third big war will begin when the big city is burning"

    Nostradamus must be God. These are accurate prophecies of September 11th. This is also much clearer and easier to interpret than the Book of Daniel quotes you listed.
    Now some things jump out right away here. The year of the new century would mean the year of 2000-going into 2k1, would it not? It did not say in the year AFTER the new century. When did the sky burn? And can it burn at 45 degrees? Did fire actually approach the great city, or was a plane driven directly there? What is this great city?

    In the city of york there will be a great collapse. Cool. City of York
    York

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Jump to: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    For other uses, see [Only registered and activated users can see links. ].
    City of York
    An aerial view of York, with [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] in the centre[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ][Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    York shown within EnglandCoordinates: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]Sovereign state[Only registered and activated users can see links. ][Only registered and activated users can see links. ][Only registered and activated users can see links. ]Region[Only registered and activated users can see links. ][Only registered and activated users can see links. ][Only registered and activated users can see links. ]Admin HQYork City CentreSettled by [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]as [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] 71Government - Type[Only registered and activated users can see links. ], [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] - Governing bodyCity of York Council - [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]:Leader and Executive - Executive:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] - [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] [Only registered and activated users can see links. ][Only registered and activated users can see links. ] - Total105 sq mi (271.94 km²)Population (2005 est / Urban 2006) - Total191,800 ([Only registered and activated users can see links. ]) - [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]1,779.3/sq mi (687/km²) - Ethnicity
    ([Only registered and activated users can see links. ])97.8% White[Only registered and activated users can see links. ][Only registered and activated users can see links. ] ([Only registered and activated users can see links. ]) - Summer ([Only registered and activated users can see links. ])[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] ([Only registered and activated users can see links. ])Postcode[Only registered and activated users can see links. ][Only registered and activated users can see links. ]01904[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]GB-YOR[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]00FF[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]SE603517[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] 3UKE21Website: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]York ([Only registered and activated users can see links. ] ([Only registered and activated users can see links. ]·[Only registered and activated users can see links. ])) is a historic walled [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] in [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], at the confluence of the rivers [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] and [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]. The city is noted for its rich history, playing an important role throughout much of its existence; it is nearly 2,000 years old.
    The city was founded as [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] in AD 71 by the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] and was made one of the two capitals of all [Only registered and activated users can see links. ].[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] During this period influential historical figures, such as [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], became associated with the city. The entire [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] was governed from York for two years by [Only registered and activated users can see links. ].[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    After the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] moved in, the city was renamed Eoferwic, and served as the capital of the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ].[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] The [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] captured the city in 866, renaming it [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], the capital of a wider kingdom of the same name covering much of Northern England. Around the year 1000, the city became known as York.[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] wished to make York the capital of England, but before he could effect this he was [Only registered and activated users can see links. ].[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] After the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], York housed the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] and was regarded as the capital of the North. It was only after [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] that the political importance of the city began to decline [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]. The [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] is one of the two English [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], alongside that of Canterbury.
    From 1996, the term City of York describes a [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] which includes rural areas beyond the old city boundaries. The urban area has a population of [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], while the entire unitary authority has [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] people. Currently, the core of the city within the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] is a major [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], attracting visitors from all over the world.


    Other notables, it says third big war will begin. We have fought Iraq and Afganistan twice before in wars? And it says the war will start when the big city is burning. Funny, cuz only the twin towers were on fire that day. The whole big city was not.

    Dam... Nastrodamus sure can predict stuff

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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    He must of had a beginning and an end?
    Admitedly this is just as tough for even bible believers to grasp as it would for anyone. We all know a begining, and God says he has always been. No matter how he could explain it, we'd never understand that being created and having a definite point in time where existence began for us.

    That said, it is much more plausible to believe an intelligent being always existed and created all these other beings of intelligence, rather than a cosmic accident reaping all this intelligent design. Especially when that intelligent being's introduction to mankind is as accurate as the bible is on even minute details.

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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Admitedly this is just as tough for even bible believers to grasp as it would for anyone. We all know a begining, and God says he has always been. No matter how he could explain it, we'd never understand that being created and having a definite point in time where existence began for us.

    That said, it is much more plausible to believe an intelligent being always existed and created all these other beings of intelligence, rather than a cosmic accident reaping all this intelligent design. Especially when that intelligent being's introduction to mankind is as accurate as the bible is on even minute details.
    That's your opinion. For you, it's much more plausible to have an intelligent invisible being create everything. A perfect being that created the universe with many flaws and imperfections. One that loves us, is all knowing and all powerful yet does not reveal himself, but punishes us for not loving him.

    For me, it's much more plausible for the universe to be random and chaotic. That's how I see nature and the universe as a whole. It is filled with imperfections and is cruel and violent. That humans are just another life form no different than any other lifeform that has struggled to survive. And eventually our time on this planet will end but life will keep going. That is what's happened for billions of years. That is fact. It is also fact that our solar system will be destroyed by our sun when it begins to collapse. This eventually happens to all stars in the universe. Our place in the universe is not unique or special. Humans are just a split-second in time within the cosmic timescale and we created religion to explain the unknown. The more knowledge we gain the less significant and improbable religion becomes.

    Just curious. What will the religious people's impression of the universe be if micro-biotic life is discovered in the polar icecaps of Mars? We've already discovered organic compounds there.
    Last edited by LJ4ptplay; Jul 20, 2008 at 14:48.

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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Widely believed by whom? It appears that he lived during Nebuchadnezzars time by the writings and Knowledge he has of how things are run during that time. WHAT FACT THAT IS WAS WRITTEN BETWEEN THOSE YEARS DO YOU HAVE? And do you not think the jews would have quickly discredited the book of Daniel if they thought that? I mean they killed Jesus for less than what a false document in their faith would have meant!!! If you have no solid proof, you are choosing to believe what you want out of choice. Funny coming from an I need facts kinda guy...
    From Wikipedia:
    The dating and authorship of Daniel has been a matter of great debate among Jews and Christians. The traditional view holds that the work was written by a prophet named Daniel who lived during the sixth century BC, whereas many modern Biblical scholars maintain that the book was written or redacted in the mid-second century BC and that most of the predictions of the book refer to events that had already occurred. A third viewpoint places the final editorial work in the fourth century BC.


    Now some things jump out right away here. The year of the new century would mean the year of 2000-going into 2k1, would it not? It did not say in the year AFTER the new century. When did the sky burn? And can it burn at 45 degrees? Did fire actually approach the great city, or was a plane driven directly there? What is this great city?
    In the city of york there will be a great collapse. Cool. City of York
    Actually the new century would begin in the year 2001. The ninth month is September. The planes hit the 45th floor. How many great cities had twin fortresses collpase in September of 2001? And he just happens to get this right with the name York in the great city. Plus, how did he know the Third World War would begin. He wasn't even alive for the first two world wars?


    But my point was to show prophecies and their fallacies. I don't believe Nostradamus was a prophet of God. Nor should anybody take the Daniel quotes as accurate prophecies either. Especially ones as ambiguous as those and possibly edited after the events occurred. Hardly profound proof of God. Like I said before, there is more indisputable proof of evolution than of God.
    Last edited by LJ4ptplay; Jul 20, 2008 at 15:19.

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