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Thread: Explaining Evolution And Why GOD is NOT LIKELY

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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    That's your opinion. For you, it's much more plausible to have an intelligent invisible being create everything. A perfect being that created the universe with many flaws and imperfections. One that loves us, is all knowing and all powerful yet does not reveal himself, but punishes us for not loving him.
    Define reveal himself? Because he does in fact reveal himself. What it seems you mean is, he does not reveal himself the way YOU'D like him too. That does not mean he has not revealed himself. Even to non believers in the bible, evidence of intelligent design is all around us. You guys choose to ignore him by trying to find answers suitable for yourselves.

    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    For me, it's much more plausible for the universe to be random and chaotic. That's how I see nature and the universe as a whole. It is filled with imperfections and is cruel and violent. That humans are just another life form no different than any other lifeform that has struggled to survive. And eventually our time on this planet will end but life will keep going. That is what's happened for billions of years. That is fact. It is also fact that our solar system will be destroyed by our sun when it begins to collapse. This eventually happens to all stars in the universe. Our place in the universe is not unique or special. Humans are just a split-second in time within the cosmic timescale.
    Your opinion, and that's fine. But to state some of these as facts is just nuts. Our place in the universe is special, because we are the only intelligent life in the known universe since you do not believe in God or Angels. And it is not a fact that life has been here for billions of years. These guys find this stuff and randomly pick a date in time it could be from, and say it's a fact. There is no date on rocks or bones! They find stuff and say Oh this rock must be 20 trillion years old because the abrassion on it says so! WHAT?! How come they have not found one single caveman? Gieco has found more cavemen than Scientists! And they ain't even looking! And I thought we came from monkies?



    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Just curious. What will the religious people's impression of the universe be if micro-biotic life is discovered in the polar icecaps of Mars? We've already discovered organic compounds there.
    I don't get your angle here. Elaborate please?

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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    From Wikipedia:
    The dating and authorship of Daniel has been a matter of great debate among Jews and Christians. The traditional view holds that the work was written by a prophet named Daniel who lived during the sixth century BC, whereas many modern Biblical scholars maintain that the book was written or redacted in the mid-second century BC and that most of the predictions of the book refer to events that had already occurred. A third viewpoint places the final editorial work in the fourth century BC.
    Again, the word debate, implies opinion. What I asked for is what FACTS
    do you have. Not opinions. Some say 600, some say 400, some say 200. All I know is the things that were said to have happened, happened. Cant argue whether that's fact or not.


    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Actually the new century would begin in the year 2001. The ninth month is September. The planes hit the 45th floor. How many great cities had twin fortresses collpase in September of 2001? And he just happens to get this right with the name York in the great city. Plus, how did he know the Third World War would begin. He wasn't even alive for the first two world wars?.
    How does it make sense that the new century would begin a year after 0? would you then say that 2001 would really begin in 2002? You'd have too with your logic. The year OF the new century would be the actual year after 99. That year would be 0. Which in this case would be 2000, not 2001. I was born the year of 1978. Does that mean I was born in 1979? No. So logically the year of the new century would be the first year, which starts in year zero, until you get through 365 days which would then put you a year into the new century. 2001-2002 would be year one headed to two, which would be past the first year of the century. So no, prophecy really shot there. But it also said the big city will burn before the third big war, only the buildings burned, not the whole NYC, and secondly, unless you know something the rest of us don't, this did not ignite a third big war.

    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    But my point was to show prophecies and their fallacies. I don't believe Nostradamus was a prophet of God. Nor should anybody take the Daniel quotes as accurate prophecies either. Especially ones as ambiguous as those and possibly edited after the events occurred. Hardly profound proof of God. Like I said before, there is more indisputable proof of evolution than of God.
    The difference again with the bibles prophecy and the one you cling too is one was already explained and cannot be disputed as happening. The only argument you have come up with against it happening is some say the book of Daniel was written after, to which there is no factual proof of it, just opinion. The one you speak of has serious flaws in it,(York is the city he named, not NEW YORK, Yearly mention as well ) and one basically has to twist it and turn it to apply to 9/11. There is no such issue with the Daniel prophecy.

    Plus, when you put into perspective the many other prophecies of the bible that came true, one disputing it would have to take the it was written afterwards stance. Because they have no other argument against it. There are many disputes on the subject of evolution.. even with the very ones who try to prove it happened.

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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Define reveal himself? Because he does in fact reveal himself. What it seems you mean is, he does not reveal himself the way YOU'D like him too. That does not mean he has not revealed himself. Even to non believers in the bible, evidence of intelligent design is all around us. You guys choose to ignore him by trying to find answers suitable for yourselves.
    Part the sky and say "I am God, worship me" or something. He used to do that kind of stuff all the time, according to the bible. Why doesn't he do it now, when his existence has never been more questioned? If he did that, I would worship him. I need to see God. I can't believe in something invisible.


    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Your opinion, and that's fine. But to state some of these as facts is just nuts. Our place in the universe is special, because we are the only intelligent life in the known universe since you do not believe in God or Angels. And it is not a fact that life has been here for billions of years. These guys find this stuff and randomly pick a date in time it could be from, and say it's a fact. There is no date on rocks or bones! They find stuff and say Oh this rock must be 20 trillion years old because the abrassion on it says so! WHAT?! How come they have not found one single caveman? Gieco has found more cavemen than Scientists! And they ain't even looking! And I thought we came from monkies?
    How do you know we are the only intelligent life in the universe? Heck, Dolphins are pretty damn intelligent. They have their own language. Again, why do you insist on saying scientists just make stuff up in their heads? Your understanding of science and how it works is unbelievable. I've descibed to you before the process of carbon dating. I've shown you the indisputable fossil record. We have several hundred complete skeletal records of Neanderthal Man and Cro-magnon Man. There is your evidence of cavemen. And we did evolve from primates. Our DNA sequencing is more closely linked to Chimpanzees than to Nanderthal Man.

    And it is fact that life has existed on Earth for almost 4 billion years. I've shown you the fossils. Why do you choose to ignore these facts? Why are there not human fossils 150 million years ago, but there are dinosaur fossils from 150 million years ago? Why are there single-celled organism fossils from 3.5 billion years ago, but not humans or dinosaurs? It's because life began from simple organsims 4 billion years ago and evolved to complex ones.

    Do you see the difference? Facts are things that can be proven. You can see them, touch them, analyse them and test them. We cannot do any of that with God.

    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    I don't get your angle here. Elaborate please?
    Just curious. Will your beliefs change? Will your thinking about our place in the universe change?

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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Again, the word debate, implies opinion. What I asked for is what FACTS
    do you have. Not opinions. Some say 600, some say 400, some say 200. All I know is the things that were said to have happened, happened. Cant argue whether that's fact or not.
    So you choose to believe the ones that say it was written in 600BC. That's fine. I was just showing you the possiblity of it being a false prophecy. The bible has many inaccuracies and therefore I cannot trust it. So to me, it is more likely the book was edited after the events occurred.

    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    How does it make sense that the new century would begin a year after 0? would you then say that 2001 would really begin in 2002? You'd have too with your logic. The year OF the new century would be the actual year after 99. That year would be 0. Which in this case would be 2000, not 2001. I was born the year of 1978. Does that mean I was born in 1979? No. So logically the year of the new century would be the first year, which starts in year zero, until you get through 365 days which would then put you a year into the new century. 2001-2002 would be year one headed to two, which would be past the first year of the century. So no, prophecy really shot there. But it also said the big city will burn before the third big war, only the buildings burned, not the whole NYC, and secondly, unless you know something the rest of us don't, this did not ignite a third big war.

    From wikipedia:
    The 21st century is the current century of the Christian Era or Common Era in accordance with the Gregorian calendar. It began on January 1, 2001 and will end December 31, 2100.



    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    There are many disputes on the subject of evolution.. even with the very ones who try to prove it happened.
    About 98% of the credible scientific community believes evolution to be fact.

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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Part the sky and say "I am God, worship me" or something. He used to do that kind of stuff all the time, according to the bible. Why doesn't he do it now, when his existence has never been more questioned? If he did that, I would worship him. I need to see God. I can't believe in something invisible.
    Does he really need to do that at this point to prove he exists? You were not there to see those events, you only read about them in the bible, why would you stop reading it to understand why he no longer needs to do those things? That is what his written word is there for. There are prophecies that come right on down to our day, one would just need to pay attention to realize. YOU DON'T WANT TO PAY ATTENTION, SO HOW WOULD YOU SEE? But when I have read your post, I can clearly see that you like millions of others have been mislead badly by whatever teachers you have had concerning the bible. You were once under the belief that God will burn people in hell forever. That is simply not true. But things like that will make most people resent God when they are not properly taught from his word.

    God reveals himself thoroughly in his written word the bible. What his purpose was for mankind, why he allows suffering throughout history, Who is really behind that suffering and how he plans to restore order the way he intended. ALL THERE. But again, I don't blame you, or those like you. Millions have been mislead by false teachings. In fact, false teaching is what God hates the most. He blames it the most on why humanity is the way it is. Because if everyone was taught properly about him, no way would the world be in such peril.

    You say you can't believe in something invisible... But you know you won't float into the atmosphere by jumping. Why? Because of an invisible force we call gravity. You can't see wind, you cant grasp it, you can't taste it, but you know it exists. Can't see water evaporate.. but you know it does.. You can't see God, but if we are in his image like he says, then by the things we are capable of doing, we can see him through us.



    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    How do you know we are the only intelligent life in the universe? Heck, Dolphins are pretty damn intelligent. They have their own language. Again, why do you insist on saying scientists just make stuff up in their heads? Your understanding of science and how it works is unbelievable. I've descibed to you before the process of carbon dating. I've shown you the indisputable fossil record. We have several hundred complete skeletal records of Neanderthal Man and Cro-magnon Man. There is your evidence of cavemen. And we did evolve from primates. Our DNA sequencing is more closely linked to Chimpanzees than to Nanderthal Man.
    I know we are not the only intelligent life in the Universe. Because I believe in God and his angels. Intelligent life would be those who can make choice due to free will. Monkees don't do that.

    So because our dna is closely linked with primates means we evolved from them? REALLY? Is that a fact? Has any primate ever even remotely appeared as if it was about to turn human that we have seen? NO!

    Now this carbon dating stuff, a little over my head, refresh me if possible. But the fossil record, I have read up on that, and in fact even posted a ton about that on the last page of the religious thread, I did not see a reply from you either on that subject.

    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    And it is fact that life has existed on Earth for almost 4 billion years. I've shown you the fossils. Why do you choose to ignore these facts? Why are there not human fossils 150 million years ago, but there are dinosaur fossils from 150 million years ago? Why are there single-celled organism fossils from 3.5 billion years ago, but not humans or dinosaurs? It's because life began from simple organsims 4 billion years ago and evolved to complex ones.
    Problem is, I have read up on the fossile record.. and what I have read does not bode well for your belief.

    Can I ask you a serious question though? What makes a person find a fossil right, and then determine that it is 3.5 BILLION years old? What piece of machinery, or knowledge can a person have today, that they can accurately determine something that is 3.5 BILLION years old, but at the same time, the book of Daniel which is not even a tenth in age compared to the so called fossil record, they speculate on precise time of writing, even though it deals with real people, time and events that other people were around to see????????? Why should i be inclined to believe scientists find bones THEY determine are billions of years old somehow, but disregard the book of Daniel which speaks of actual events other people were there to see, because people say it was doctored? What stops these scientists from exaggerating or doctoring????????

    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Do you see the difference? Facts are things that can be proven. You can see them, touch them, analyse them and test them. We cannot do any of that with God.
    Precisely! That is what facts are. All I have ever been saying this whole time is the bible is a book of facts, historical, scientific, prophetic facts! You can read about Alexander the great in a library and in the bible. You can read about constellations and order in the universe in the library and the bible. You can test to see if the bible is right by reading it's account of things, and how world history says they unfolded. It is precise! So if the bible is God's word, than that means you are wrong. YOU CAN DO THAT WITH GOD!



    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Just curious. Will your beliefs change? Will your thinking about our place in the universe change?
    NO. God's very name Jehovah means "HE WHO CAUSES TO BECOME". That is what a creator does. They cause to become. So he never said he would stop making life after making humans. He made life before us. The bible does not say whether their is life on other planets or not, so I don't care to speculate. I do however know that no other life has been found as of yet. And since that is a fact, I won't play what ifs the other way.

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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    So you choose to believe the ones that say it was written in 600BC. That's fine. I was just showing you the possiblity of it being a false prophecy. The bible has many inaccuracies and therefore I cannot trust it. So to me, it is more likely the book was edited after the events occurred.
    It would take a hell of a lot more for me to not believe in the bible. The daniel prophecy is just one of many that have come true. One would need to disprove all of them. And the argument of, it was written after would get old after awhile.

    And that is not the only reason it is inaccurate to you. One is that you want it to be, and secondly is becaue your biblical knowledge in itself takes on a different meaning than what the bible itself actually says. But I don't blame you for that, that goes on your teachers and understanding of it based on that.



    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    From wikipedia:
    The 21st century is the current century of the Christian Era or Common Era in accordance with the Gregorian calendar. It began on January 1, 2001 and will end December 31, 2100.
    This is nuts. The world celebrated the turn of the century and new millenium a year early! lol.




    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    About 98% of the credible scientific community believes evolution to be fact.
    Now here is the issue with what you just said.

    What makes one scientists credible vs another? What criteria goes into that? And how many actual scientists make up this 98%? And facts are not based on belief. Fact is always truth.

    I believe the unfulfilled prophecies of the bible will happen as it says because, the ones in the past have come true. The ones in the past happened. So they are factual. Indisputable. My beliefs.. MAY OR MAY NOT HAPPEN.

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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Part the sky and say "I am God, worship me" or something. He used to do that kind of stuff all the time, according to the bible. Why doesn't he do it now, when his existence has never been more questioned? If he did that, I would worship him. I need to see God. I can't believe in something invisible.




    How do you know we are the only intelligent life in the universe? Heck, Dolphins are pretty damn intelligent. They have their own language. Again, why do you insist on saying scientists just make stuff up in their heads? Your understanding of science and how it works is unbelievable. I've descibed to you before the process of carbon dating. I've shown you the indisputable fossil record. We have several hundred complete skeletal records of Neanderthal Man and Cro-magnon Man. There is your evidence of cavemen. And we did evolve from primates. Our DNA sequencing is more closely linked to Chimpanzees than to Nanderthal Man.

    And it is fact that life has existed on Earth for almost 4 billion years. I've shown you the fossils. Why do you choose to ignore these facts? Why are there not human fossils 150 million years ago, but there are dinosaur fossils from 150 million years ago? Why are there single-celled organism fossils from 3.5 billion years ago, but not humans or dinosaurs? It's because life began from simple organsims 4 billion years ago and evolved to complex ones.

    Do you see the difference? Facts are things that can be proven. You can see them, touch them, analyse them and test them. We cannot do any of that with God.



    Just curious. Will your beliefs change? Will your thinking about our place in the universe change?

    Im just answering your first response in case knicks4lyfe didnt, in the Bible God say he will come again in the future. He has two comings, one happened were he was Jesus and crucified on the cross as we all know. The second will be after something we call the tribulation and the years of suffering etc. Due to the rapture, the world will be in chaos due to the sudden dissapearence of god's followers it will be the most dramatic event the world has ever seen. When it happens and when God returns its said in our book, that people still wont believe it is GOD even though he will decend from heaven because some people have been blinded so long that nothing will make them believe. Just like when people saw Jesus perform miraccles the Jews still called him a blastphemer and a fake. In your case u said that if u saw God then you'd believe, well many cases like that will happen so i hope it happens to you too.

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    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    Im just answering your first response in case knicks4lyfe didnt, in the Bible God say he will come again in the future. He has two comings, one happened were he was Jesus and crucified on the cross as we all know. The second will be after something we call the tribulation and the years of suffering etc. Due to the rapture, the world will be in chaos due to the sudden dissapearence of god's followers it will be the most dramatic event the world has ever seen. When it happens and when God returns its said in our book, that people still wont believe it is GOD even though he will decend from heaven because some people have been blinded so long that nothing will make them believe. Just like when people saw Jesus perform miraccles the Jews still called him a blastphemer and a fake. In your case u said that if u saw God then you'd believe, well many cases like that will happen so i hope it happens to you too.
    Well, if it happens then I will believe. But people have been claiming that will happen for a long time. And nothing ever happens. Thousands of "believers" spend time praying and worshipping and giving their money to the ones who make the claims, and nothing ever happens. There were a lot of people that thought the world was going to end in the year 2000. But that never happened. Life goes on. No God. No Nothing.

    I am absolutely positive it won't happen. I will die someday. You will die someday. And neither of us will see it. Because it won't happen. When you are hopefully very old, and close to death, I hope you will remember this conversation. Hopefully you will have enjoyed your life. And that is the most important thing.

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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Well, if it happens then I will believe. But people have been claiming that will happen for a long time. And nothing ever happens. Thousands of "believers" spend time praying and worshipping and giving their money to the ones who make the claims, and nothing ever happens. There were a lot of people that thought the world was going to end in the year 2000. But that never happened. Life goes on. No God. No Nothing.

    I am absolutely positive it won't happen. I will die someday. You will die someday. And neither of us will see it. Because it won't happen. When you are hopefully very old, and close to death, I hope you will remember this conversation. Hopefully you will have enjoyed your life. And that is the most important thing.
    My father was a doctor and what always got him was that a couple times when people were in there death bed they'd suddenly see two visions. One was a place they said was beautiful and wound up describing actual places that the Bible mentions..ironic...the other people saw a vision that made them frightned, my dad wasnt the only person that saw this..the nurse in the room with him got freaked out because the guy in the bed started staring at my dad but acted like he was looking right through him. A vision of course, he said something along the lines of "were am I? it's so hot here, what is this horrible place?" that my friend, is what we vision hell as. Now my dad knew this man and this man never knew what hell looked like in the bible and was a complete atheist as many people are like yourself. The moment when a person might become old and know they're gonna die is when the thought of a possible God start to reach their minds..becuase if you think about it the mind starts saying " what if there is a God and he created me for a pupose and I have been denying him my whole life what will happen when I die? Am i going to really spend eternity in a horrible place as Hell?" And the question is what do you think happens when you die? Because after life is a huge issue with Atheism basically because no one really has the same answer. One person i asked said we become an animal, one said a plant, another said we just die and lay in the ground forever. OK? We were created to look at dirt for the rest of time? to become and unmovable object? to become a species completely different from the human being? You have your own view on it but there are supernatural events that have happened to people that have the same belief as you...and many of them were presumed dead in the hospital and ironically they all saw the same thing...either a beautiful place that is exactly described as Biblical heaven or a place that is exactly described as Biblical hell. The point of the story is that people see remarkable things when they are dieing and most of them had no belief untill they saw that remarkable thing. Either heaven or hell is the answer to all of them.

    So my question to you is were do you think your going when you die? Whats your take on after you die?

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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Well, if it happens then I will believe. But people have been claiming that will happen for a long time. And nothing ever happens. Thousands of "believers" spend time praying and worshipping and giving their money to the ones who make the claims, and nothing ever happens.

    I am absolutely positive it won't happen. I will die someday. You will die someday. And neither of us will see it. Because it won't happen. When you are hopefully very old, and close to death, I hope you will remember this conversation.

    For your benefit LJ, I will post this.

    Act 1:8 but YOU will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon YOU, and YOU will be witnesses of me both in Jerusalem and in all Ju·de´a and Sa·mar´i·a and to the most distant part of the earth.” 9 And after he had said these things, while they were looking on, he was lifted up and a cloud caught him up from their vision. 10 And as they were gazing into the sky while he was on his way, also, look! two men in white garments stood alongside them, 11 and they said: “Men of Gal´i·lee, why do YOU stand looking into the sky? This Jesus who was received up from YOU into the sky will come thus in the same manner as YOU have beheld him going into the sky.”

    Jesus second coming will not be with him being seen on a cloud. Look closely at the end of verse 9. Says he was caught up from their vision... THEY COULD NO LONGER SEE HIM EVEN THOUGH THEY KEPT GAZING.

    So the two angels who appeared as men let them know that he would return the same way he left, and when he left in the clouds, they could no longer see him...

    Also here in Luke Jesus the Pharasees ask when the Kingdom was coming(which is Jesus second coming)
    Luke 17:20 But on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God was coming, he answered them and said: “The kingdom of God is not coming with striking observableness,21 neither will people be saying, ‘See here!’ or, ‘There!’ For, look! the kingdom of God is in YOUR midst.”

    In fact, Jesus told his disciples exactly what to look for, as in signs to tell his coming.

    Luke 17:26 Moreover, just as it occurred in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of man: 27 they were eating, they were drinking, men were marrying, women were being given in marriage, until that day when Noah entered into the ark, and the flood arrived and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise, just as it occurred in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building. 29 But on the day that Lot came out of Sod´om it rained fire and sulphur from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 The same way it will be on that day when the Son of man is to be revealed.

    and here in Mathew 24:3 While he was sitting upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately, saying: “Tell us, When will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?”

    Why would signs be needed if he is going to truly come on clouds and every eye will see him? And the ramifications of every eye actually seeing him would mean dynamic miraculous feats. One, what of blind people? infants? What does that mean for infants? They could not possibly understand the ramifications. How can we see something in the clouds? I mean even the bright sun is covered in the clouds... However, I don't question whether God is capable of doing such things, but everything he has ever done has been done with sound reason. So this would be highly unlikely. Especially since Jesus told his disciples what SIGN to look for concerning his presence.

    So what you should look for is the sign of his presence, cuz you won't be seeing him in any clouds.

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    To LJ, before u answer this i wana hear ur take ony my post before about after death. And wut u said about ud like to hear some of the atehist and agnosic astronomers i mentioend them in some posts with knickfans4realz so you can find it i bolded and underlined their statements. It's about the debate on if the universe had a beginning using the Cosomological Argument.

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    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    My father was a doctor and what always got him was that a couple times when people were in there death bed they'd suddenly see two visions. One was a place they said was beautiful and wound up describing actual places that the Bible mentions..ironic...the other people saw a vision that made them frightned, my dad wasnt the only person that saw this..the nurse in the room with him got freaked out because the guy in the bed started staring at my dad but acted like he was looking right through him. A vision of course, he said something along the lines of "were am I? it's so hot here, what is this horrible place?" that my friend, is what we vision hell as. Now my dad knew this man and this man never knew what hell looked like in the bible and was a complete atheist as many people are like yourself. The moment when a person might become old and know they're gonna die is when the thought of a possible God start to reach their minds..becuase if you think about it the mind starts saying " what if there is a God and he created me for a pupose and I have been denying him my whole life what will happen when I die? Am i going to really spend eternity in a horrible place as Hell?" And the question is what do you think happens when you die? Because after life is a huge issue with Atheism basically because no one really has the same answer. One person i asked said we become an animal, one said a plant, another said we just die and lay in the ground forever. OK? We were created to look at dirt for the rest of time? to become and unmovable object? to become a species completely different from the human being? You have your own view on it but there are supernatural events that have happened to people that have the same belief as you...and many of them were presumed dead in the hospital and ironically they all saw the same thing...either a beautiful place that is exactly described as Biblical heaven or a place that is exactly described as Biblical hell. The point of the story is that people see remarkable things when they are dieing and most of them had no belief untill they saw that remarkable thing. Either heaven or hell is the answer to all of them.

    So my question to you is were do you think your going when you die? Whats your take on after you die?
    I believe that after I die...I'm dead. Nothing. I rot in the ground like every other creature. I believe we are no different than any other living thing on the planet. Do you believe that dogs, monkeys, fish, insects go to heaven? Probably not. Why would they? There is no heaven for these creatures. But you believe humans are special, where I believe we are all part of the ecological process.

    I have also met people that have come close to death and one person who actually died twice! He was in a car accident one time and he was struck by lightning the other time. Both times he was pronounced dead, but did not see anything. No beautiful light, no hot firey place, nothing. I bet you though, all those people your dad treated were raised in a christian society. Athiest or not, in this society we are pounded with the message of heaven and hell. And you're right, some people may doubt their atheism at their death bed and may believe they saw the bible's version of heaven or hell. I don't doubt that. The mind can do crazy things, especially at a time of near death. When people have near-death experiences in other cultures, they see their versions of "heaven" too.

    Why do you worship a being that punishes you for not worshipping him? Is fear the main reason you worship him? Fear of burning in hell? I would hope an all-powerful being would be more understanding. I've been a good person my whole life. I've treated others with respect, helped those in need, and plan on dedicating my life to protecting the environment. But if I go to hell because I don't worship him, then that is a truly sad, egotistical, self righteous being.

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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    I know we are not the only intelligent life in the Universe. Because I believe in God and his angels. Intelligent life would be those who can make choice due to free will. Monkees don't do that.
    Actually, chimpanzees make choices based on free will too. They also experience happiness, sadness, jealousy, anger, are able to figure out problems and are self aware. They are incredibly intelligent creatures. You would be amazed at their level of intelligence.

    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    So because our dna is closely linked with primates means we evolved from them? REALLY? Is that a fact? Has any primate ever even remotely appeared as if it was about to turn human that we have seen? NO!
    Is this really what you think evolution is? If so, then I totally understand why you don't believe it. In fact, that is the problem with most creationists. They don't know or don't understand. Genetics is a very complex science. The more knowledge I gained about genetics, the less I believed in God.

    The same goes for astronomy. Both are very humbling sciences and really put the human race into perspective within the grand scheme of life and the universe. Thoroughly understanding these two sciences, along with understanding the concept of the passage of time can only make one doubt the bible and doubt the existence of a supreme being that cares for us.

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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    So what you should look for is the sign of his presence, cuz you won't be seeing him in any clouds.
    I haven't see signs of his presence anywhere. Sorry. You may look at a beautiful mountain and see God, I see the geological process that created it.

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    God told the first pair what would happen to them due to sin

    Gen 3:19 In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”

    Notice, no mention of returning to heaven, or going to a fiery place of torment.

    Some people believe that it's not the flesh that actuall goes to hell, but it's your immortal soul. God never actually gave Adam a soul within his body. Bible says he formed Adam from dust, and he breathed into the now formed man the breath of life, and then the man came to BE A LIVING SOUL.

    Gen 2:7 And Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul.
    That implies that all living humans on earth are actual souls, and not that he gave humans souls apart from their flesh.


    As imperfect humans we know we sin, and therefore we die. Lets just for argument sake say we do have a separate immortal soul. Can the soul inside an imperfect being not sin if its part of us? Then why would God punish us in the flesh for sinning, not the soul inside of us that has also adhered to the sinning the flesh has done? God said this once concerning souls

    ezekiel 18: 4 Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so likewise the soul of the son—to me they belong. The soul that is sinning—it itself will die. Answers.com says death means:death (dĕth)


    n.
    1. The act of dying; termination of life.
    2. The state of being dead.

    In order for your soul to burn in hell forever and you be consciously aware of it, you must in some way actually be alive. But Jehovah himself says the soul that sins it itself will die. So either death in the bible does not mean what death as we know it means to a lot of people, or clearly a lot of people have it all wrong when it comes to life after death, and it is just as God says, from dust you are, and dust you will return.

    But further scriptures on what happens after death..

    Ecclesiastes 9: 5 For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten

    and 10 All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in She´ol(She'ol is the Hebrew word for grave, but is also translated Hell in some bibles, but only in certain spots), the place to which you are going.


    And here in Psalms 146:
    3 Do not put YOUR trust in nobles,
    Nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs.
    4 His spirit ( translated from the hebrew word ru'ach, which means breath )goes out, he goes back to his ground;
    In that day his thoughts do perish.

    How can you burn in hell forever and know it, when the bible says that when you die your very thoughts perish? No knowledge nor wisdom?

    All of these scriptures seem to lead back to what God said would happen to Adam and Eve in Gen 2:19


    " For dust you are and to dust you will return.”

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