and by the way allan houston is no damn leader, sprewell was always our heart while houston was here
Didn't we go through this again?
Does Datruth ever learn?
Allan Houston became the LEADER after Spree left the team. Stop trying to take credit from the man. If you didn't know this, you weren't watching Knicks basketball when Eisley, Anderson, Weatherspoon, Harrington, Nalion, Postell, Thomas was the squad we rocked out with.
2nd of all, Crawford is more one dimensional than Houston.
Houston on bad knees got to the free throw line more than Jamal.
4 FTA for Allan, 3.5 for Jamal.
Jamal has the handle and quickness to go to the FT, but he's too P*SSY!.
Anyone defends Jamal is a b*tch, seriously. This guy is a disgrace to our franchise and should be forgotten after he's terminated from this squad.
He never belonged here in the first place and I can't wait till the day he's gone.
He does NOTHING good except CHUCK and play WNBA type basketball.
DA"TRUTH," look, son, as a person that was out of diapers, when Sprewell, Houston and Ewing all played, I can tell you that Sprewell was never leader of the Knicks and was often a liability. He would take bad shots, miss most of those and lacked the scoring punch that both Ewing and Houston were capable of delivering. His scoring was inconsistent and not executed in bunches, he had weak 3-point shooting, a weak outside game and was turnover prone.
Allan Houston, before, during, and after Sprewell, always outplayed him, outshot him and was an underrated defender. Houston would always open the game by crushing opponents with two or three consecutive jumpers. And, unlike Crawford, who has tried to do the same, he would usually knock down jumpers to close quarters and halves. He was great at cutting and coming off of screens, comparable to Rip Hamilton. Ewing was always the leader, the most clutch of our shooters. When he was older, his presence was still that of a leader, he was the type of player, who when he sat down, you felt something was missing: the great help defense, the rebounding, the blocks, the consistent 18-foot jumper.
A testament to how great Ewing was is that, even though people, usually those who didn't even watch the Knicks regularly, believed he was a detriment to the Knicks, as soon as he was traded, the Knicks fell a million miles from where they had been for years.
Sprewell was disliked, because of his inconsistent shooting, lack of clutch, and bad decision making. When the chips were down, you could not look to the man. I've always thought John Starks should have remained on the team, playing with Houston and Ewing: he was really just as good as Sprewell, though much more explosive and willful. Sprewell would make you cheer, every once in a while, but you hated him, for his ****ty play, 8 times out of 10. Starks had so much heart that, even if he didn't play that well, you saw that he wanted to and that he would leave all he had on the floor
-OG going back to the SHU-
Last edited by OGKnickfan; Aug 08, 2008 at 12:29.
Lee Nailon. Damn i forgot about him. Remember the year we were like 0-5because Spree was injured and didn't get his injury looked at till like a month before the season costing us the first month of the season.
I remember we picked up Nailon right before the season and he wasn't ever really a good player but for our first win of the season he went off on the Kings and we won our first game. Don't ask me why i remember that but i do. But on a serious note if Spreewell got that injury handled earlier he wouldn't have missed the first month and we would have made the playoffs. We wouldn't have been a factor in the playoffs but we would have made the playoffs.
We we're like 1-8 to start the season without him and finished the season 37-45. I'm sure this wasn't the main reason but it was probably a part of the reason he got traded soon after.
Also looking up these stats, made me see how well Frank Williams played those three games before we made that Marbury trade.
Remember when Charlie Ward told Chaney he should start the young Williams and Williams and then Knicks absolutely dismantled teams (albiet only three games but still) I'm not going to check the schedule but one was a huge blowout agians the Heat.
Off topic but still. What do you think would have happened if the Knicks never made that Marbury trade? Obviously Frank Williams was a one week player but we would have had the expiring contracts of Eisley, McDyess, Mutumbo, and i think Clarence Weatherspoon coming off the books. This isn't a hate comment just curious what people think would have happened if we never made the Marbury trade.
Also who were the potential free agent targets that summer if we had the cap space?
I was suprised to see Frank Williams dissapear the way he did...i thought he had potential. I remember those games where he played real good. Is he even in the d-league now?
The Knicks could have potentially gotten Luol Deng, had they not traded for Marbury. Luol Deng isn't as good as Marbury, so it wasn't a huge loss.
There was some good free agents out there, but there's always good free agents out there. The Knicks were over the cap, before they signed Marbury, so it's not like the Knicks would've got to sign them.
The Knicks would've probably been even worse than they turned out, had Marbury not been traded.
Jamal Crawford and Allan Houston would've been the team's scoring duo(horrible combination).
Once Houston retired, Jamal Crawford and Tim Thomas would've been the team's lead scorers(an even worse combination than the one listed above).
The Marbury trade turned out to be a trade that the Knicks didn't need, but nothing special would've happened if they didn't trade for him. Allan Houston, Tim Thomas, and Vin Baker's contracts were too huge for the Knicks to have been under the cap anyways.
I agree with MSG. The trade wasn't good, because too many draft picks were given up and Penny Hardaway's monster contract got dumped on the Knicks. But it's not like the Knicks were going to do miracles, had they not traded for him either. Isiah is dum, so he would've figured out another way to ruin the team.
Wow thats an awful awful response. If they never made the Marbury trade they probably wouldn't have made the playoffs that season (a whole four game trip). But they would have cleared so much cap space but letting McDyess and Eisley expire. Also they would have never made the Tim Thomas/Nazi Mohammad trade because as soon as Houston got hurt they would have decided to pack in the season. So they would have been pretty close to under the cap.
They would have had many more options in the offseason not to mention a much higher draft pick. Maybe they would have signed Crawford but also with all the extra cap room they would have had many more options of players to sign.
And ABCD the Knicks didn't sign Marbury they traded for his albatros of a contract, also this time i wasn't knocking Marbury i was simply asking the question "what if". Becuase in all honesty i think it was a huge risk and one that ultimately turned out badly but i wasn't totally upset when we got Marbury, i thought playing at home would turn him around as a team player.
But to me i don't see how we could have possibly been any worse without making the Marbury trade. We made the playoffs once with Marbury i have a feeling with all that cap space and first round picks traded in the Marbury trade we would have made the playoffs once.
I can't blame Marbury for signing the huge deal or getting traded here, its on Isiah. Like i said i was just playing the "what if" game. But the Marbury trade did start the cycle of failed moves by Isiah.
One more thing. You wouldn't rather have Luol Dang than Stephon Marbury?????
Last edited by GetRealistic; Aug 08, 2008 at 13:40.
Isiah Thomas was a dumb GM. If you honestly believe that the Marbury trade is even one of the main reasons why this team sucks then look more closely at all the moves that Isiah made.
He signed Crawford to a 7 year-contract.
He signed Curry to a 6 year-contract.
He traded Kurt Thomas for Quentin Richardson.
He traded Nazr Mohammad for Malik Rose.
He signed Jerome James for 30 million dollars.
He signed Jared Jeffries for 30 million dollars.
He traded 4 draft picks for Curry.
He traded Penny Hardaway's expiring contract for Steve Francis.
He waived Jalen Rose's valuable expiring contract.
He traded for Maurice Taylor's 9 million a year contract.
The Knicks had Houston under a 100 million dollar contract, and Larry Johnson's contract ran through 2006. The Knicks didn't have enough capspace to sign a superstar, if that's what you think.
Luol Deng is not better than Marbury. Look at the stats, all star appearances, USA team appearances, and playoff appearances if you want.
Good God.. Reading your posts make me miss NyKnicks126. Your awful. You still don't get the principal of my original post. I said "WHAT IF" the Marbury trade was never made.
Did i ever say this was the worst trade Isiah ever made? Even though it probably is, i never said it was. Don't you get the principal that if the first trade of this cycle of failure wasn't made then the next 10 steps may not have been made.
You wouldn't rather have Luol Deng then Stephon Marbury? Wow, I'm not talking about Minnesota Timberwolves Marbury, NJ Nets Marbury, or Suns Marbury i'm talking about New York Knicks Marbury. Nobody cares about his career stats. He had great years early in his career, awesome that really makes a difference for us now.
Flat out just better at every aspect
Just cause you love Stephon Marbury doesn't mean you have to stick up for him in every arguement. I know MSG and Metro love Marbury but i don't even suspect they'll have your back on this.
And as far as All star games, playoff games, and olympic teams.
Marbury hasn't made an all star game as a Knick
Deng has played in the second round of the playoffs
Marbury was the PG of a bronze medal team and i'm not sure but i think Deng is British Colombian so he can't play on the U.S. team and i have no idea if he plays for his home countries team.
When you learn how to read more than a few sentences, then talk.
The more you skip people's sentences on their posts, the more you look like you're illiterate.
Luol Deng has been in the NBA for 4 years. We don't know what he's going to do in the future, so stop assuming that he's better than Marbury, when the stats, playoff appearances and All Star appearances prove otherwise.
You're just a hater, and since I always murder you in arguments, you tried to take advantage. Too bad you used things that I didn't even say, cause you can barely read. It's not going to work with me. I can read, so I know what I wrote.
You're just a Marbury hater, and that's why you even brought up this stupid discussion.
What if the Knicks never traded for your boyfriend, Curry?
The KNicks would have Lamarcus Aldridge, Joakim Noah, 2 second round picks, and Tim Thomas' contract would've expired.