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Thread: Christianity in 30 Seconds

  1. #16
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    Default With all due disrespect

    I can understand why you take comfort in spirituality, the bible's attempts to instill values like sacrifice, in the face of tremendous odds, goodwill, honesty and compassion. However, just like you can't take certain of the bible's principles as your own: women being inferior, no eating of pork or certain seafood, God commanding the Israelites to kill, or enslave, all of the inhabitants of the land of Canaan, as a way to steal their land, etc., you can't take cultural peculiarities, such as the belief in a male god (a belief peculiar to North Africa and the Middle East, amongst Afro-asiatic tribes), belief in the shepherd being above the farmer, as demonstrated in the Cain and Abel story (by the way, the Israelites were known shepherds, which is why they tell a story that supports their culture), so seriously.

    You just have to realize that a lot of these beliefs are peculiar to these particular people. This is why they only know about their part of the world, not ours, because God did not write their book, they did. This is also why their book is infused with male-centered beliefs, down to how they describe their lineage: it's a patrilineal society. In Africa, on the other hand, the woman's line of descent was most respected, and the main Gods were female. If you look at statues, from Africa, pre-European colonization there are statues that depict the fertility of the woman. If you look at religious statues in the Middle East, they show a penis, instead.

    If you read about the Gods of the surrounding peoples, they were all similar to Jehovah. In fact, every tribe, neighboring the Israelites, believed in a male creator God, who lived in the mountains (Zeus, anyone? What about Moses?), just like the Jews, except they also recognized the existence of other Gods, though they did not worship them. There is evidence, in fact, that the Jews were not monotheistic, but, instead, worshiped one God, while believing that others did exist.

    Spirituality, in short, should be based on moral growth, becoming a better person, trying to lift others up. This is actually what the bible was meant to do, but people want to take it literally. People, like some of those here, believe it's about position: "I'm going to heaven, and you're going to hell." This is all about ego and pride, not a pursuit of truth, of spiritual grace. The truth is that there are secrets to everything we see, and the right way to pursue the truth about them is with humility, without the prejudices of blind faith. Anyone who violates this actually sins against truth, and, after all, creation, as well as the creator, is subject to truth. Truth is not even subject to time, to the bible, it precedes reality. Unfortunately, not too many people actually care about truth.
    Last edited by OGKnickfan; Aug 08, 2008 at 17:33.

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    Great post. Nice to have a fresh voice here. Weclome to the madness Enjoy your stay!

    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    I can understand why you take comfort in spirituality, the bible's attempts to instill values like sacrifice, in the face of tremendous odds, goodwill, honesty and compassion. However, just like you can't take certain of the bible's principles as your own: women being inferior, no eating of pork or certain seafood, God commanding the Israelites to kill, or enslave, all of the inhabitants of the land of Canaan, as a way to steal their land, etc., you can't take cultural peculiarities, such as the belief in a male god (a belief peculiar to North Africa and the Middle East, amongst Afro-asiatic tribes), belief in the shepherd being above the farmer, as demonstrated in the Cain and Abel story (by the way, the Israelites were known shepherds, which is why they tell a story that supports their culture), so seriously.
    The bible does not actually support the belief that women are inferior to man, After all Jehovah said he made woman as a "HELPER" to man. (gen 2:18) That implies compliment. So man is supposed to respect his wife as his compliment, his God ordained helper to go through life with together. That is why it says they become one flesh and not two. So that inferiority belief is a misconception of the bible, not actually what it teaches.

    Also, Jehovah's dealings with the Israelites in all capacity was to use them as his outlet to the world that he existed. He made his name known throughout the earth from his dealings with them. So even things that even seem to not be so cool, served the purpose for him letting his name be known, so that now, every nation can know he is the God who acts for those who believe in him.

    Now a days, everyone who wants too, can be in affect what a jew was then. A servant of Jehovah. He demonstrated his authority through the Jews for 1500 years whether it was in their favor, or by teaching them a lesson themselves. Either way, his name was being declared as the one who causes to become.




    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    If you read about the Gods of the surrounding peoples, they were all similar to Jehovah. In fact, every tribe, neighboring the Israelites, believed in a male creator God, who lived in the mountains (Zeus, anyone? What about Moses?), just like the Jews, except they also recognized the existence of other Gods, though they did not worship them. There is evidence, in fact, that the Jews were not monotheistic, but, instead, worshiped one God, while believing that others did exist.
    Actually, none of them are similar to Jehovah, because none of them acted for his people the way Jehovah acted for his. These neighboring nations surrounding Israel at one time or another would attest to Jehovah protecting the Jews. The Egyptians worshipped many Gods, but could not stop the God of their slaves from freeing his people. The Babylonians were allowed by Jehovah to destroy Jerusalem, and enslave his people, for Jehovah to foretell of the Babylonian destruction and freedom of his people to return to Jerusalem and rebuild. So just a couple of examples of him being the God who causes to become.

    Also, the Jews were punished into slavery by the Babylonians because they disobeyed Jehovah and started bowing down to false Gods, thinking he could not see them. This is why he prophecied to the jews about the destruction before it happened. To let them know why it would happen. Again, causing to become. But not all the Jews swayed to false worship. This is how come they were able to be restored to Jerusalem. Long story short.

    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    Spirituality, in short, should be based on moral growth, becoming a better person, trying to lift others up. This is actually what the bible was meant to do, but people want to take it literally. People, like some of those here, believe it's about position: "I'm going to heaven, and you're going to hell." This is all about ego and pride, not a pursuit of truth, of spiritual grace. The truth is that there are secrets to everything we see, and the right way to pursue the truth about them is with humility, without the prejudices of blind faith. Anyone who violates this actually sins against truth, and, after all, creation, as well as the creator, is subject to truth. Truth is not even subject to time, to the bible, it precedes reality. Unfortunately, not too many people actually care about truth.
    Well it's hard to take the moral aspect literally about the bible, but not the rest in some capacity.

    The bottom line with the bible is, it's like any other book in history, it has a theme. If everyone understood the theme of the bible, ego, pride and such would not even be part of the discussion. One would know the truth concerning it.

    But you are right about one thing for sure... Not too many people actually care enough about truth.

  3. #18
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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Problem with you saying faith is not based on fact is that the bible has prophetic word. This word has proven true in each of them. So that would prove what you just said false about faith not having fact.

    Also, about the bible being outdated,

    If men did not do these things, would the world be a lot better off?

    Murder
    Fornicate
    Adultery
    steal
    lie
    covet


    If you say yes the world would be better off, then the bible cannot be outdated, because that would mean these principles, if applied by men for all time man is here, would only help mankind prosper. So when would it then be outdated? How a person could say no the world would not be better off if people lived by not doing those things is beyond me.

    Before you object really think about your answer.

    Because in effect you would be saying the world is better off if people

    Murder
    fornicate
    adultery
    steal
    lie
    covet.
    The bible was plagiarized also.
    Your thoughts?

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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    The bible was plagiarized also.
    Your thoughts?
    I'll share my thoughts on that soon as you can provide your thoughts on my previous respo nse to your post, please.

  5. #20
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    1) The Bible also says that black people are cursed.
    Is the world better off with racism?

    2) The Bible says that women are less than men.
    Is the world better off with sexism?

    3) The Bible says thou shalt not kill, yet it talks about murdering first born humans and other animals. Would the world be better off if people were randomly killed, just because they were the first born?

    1) Genesis- Chapter 9: Verses 18-24
    "The curse which Noah pronounced upon Canaan was the origin of the black race.2"

    2) Genesis- Chapter 3: verse 16
    "Your craving will be for your husband, and he will dominate you."

    3) Exodus- Chapter 12: verse 29-30
    "At midnight the LORD struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn of the prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the livestock as well. Pharaoh and all his officials and all the Egyptians got up during the night, and there was loud wailing in Egypt, for there was not a house without someone dead."

  6. #21
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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Problem with you saying faith is not based on fact is that the bible has prophetic word. This word has proven true in each of them. So that would prove what you just said false about faith not having fact.

    Also, about the bible being outdated,

    If men did not do these things, would the world be a lot better off?

    Murder
    Fornicate
    Adultery
    steal
    lie
    covet

    Of course it would, because then mankind would die off and the earth would be free from us ****ing it over constantly.

    Oh, and I'm talking about fornication.

  7. #22
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    That article is completely false. We've seen evolution occur in species today. Mr. Conspiracy Theory, or whatever you want to call yourself, you don't know sh*t about evolution, genetics, and the classification of species. Don't bother trying to argue the subject here. Fact remains, you cannot prove intelligent design, but we can prove evolution. Now, go back to the real story telling...the bible.
    You cannot prove that a "non-living" chemical can miraculously assemble itself into a living cell.

    Tell me Mr. Wizard, how can that happen? did your black magic spark up life?

    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    That pretty much sums it up. And people actually believe this crap. Talk about gullible.
    LOL! Talk about stupidity, people actually believe in darwins theory bs vs. something that has been passed down from generation to generation.

    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    Ohh stop now your sounding just........
    Just too much for your arrogant ass to deal with. You are the most arrogant person on this site. You believe what you want, it doesn't bother me. I'm not gonna debate with someone who's opinion is warped beyond belief.

    Originally Posted by abcd
    The Bible is outdated, because it was written 1,000s of years ago. The Bible actually says nothing about North America or South America, because people orignally thought that there was only 3 continents. It also doesn't say anything about Australia or Antartica. It also implies that the Earth has 4 corners, because people used to believe that the world was flat.

    Whether someone believes in the Bible or not, it should not be debateable whether or not the Bible is outdated, because it was written 1,000s of years ago in the perspective of someone that lived 1000s of years ago, too.

    Revelation- Chapter 7, Verse 1
    "After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] holding back the four winds of the earth so that no wind could blow on land or sea or against any tree."

    The Earth is round, so it doesn't have any corners. It has zero sides and zero corners. Maybe the people that wrote the Bible made a mistake, because humans are imperfect, but the rules of Mathematics says that a circle is not a polygon, nor does it have sides or corners.
    The Bible is God's word, and can be applied to the present day (If you read the Bible you wouldn't say that.) saying "four corners" of the earth doesn't necessarily mean that it's saying the world is flat. In a matter of speaking it can mean four different places of the earth.
    Last edited by Akamu; Aug 08, 2008 at 23:56.

  8. #23
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    For the Jackass above:

    Just like you can't PROVE any of the following:

    A) There is a GOD
    B) There is a Jesus
    C) Adam and Eve had two kids but yet gave birth to over 6 billion people..eventhough no one has a ****ing clue where Cain's wife came from...
    D) There are Angels
    E) There are Demons
    F) A flood wiped out giants and horny angels
    G) There was a tower of Babel
    H) The earth stood still on it's axis
    I) Man can walk on water
    J) Other pagan GODS are not real
    K) Revelation is real
    L) The Bible is a Metaphor or Literal
    M) There is a Heaven
    N) There is a Hell
    O) There is original sin
    P) When Jesus is coming back
    Q) There is a whore of Babylon
    R) God loves us
    S) God is intelligent in his designs
    T) There will be a judgment day

    When you folks prove ****...ANY OF THE FOLLOWING..let me know...

  9. #24
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    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    For the Jackass above:

    Just like you can't PROVE any of the following:

    A) There is a GOD
    B) There is a Jesus
    C) Adam and Eve had two kids but yet gave birth to over 6 billion people..eventhough no one has a ****ing clue where Cain's wife came from...
    D) There are Angels
    E) There are Demons
    F) A flood wiped out giants and horny angels
    G) There was a tower of Babel
    H) The earth stood still on it's axis
    I) Man can walk on water
    J) Other pagan GODS are not real
    K) Revelation is real
    L) The Bible is a Metaphor or Literal
    M) There is a Heaven
    N) There is a Hell
    O) There is original sin
    P) When Jesus is coming back
    Q) There is a whore of Babylon
    R) God loves us
    S) God is intelligent in his designs
    T) There will be a judgment day

    When you folks prove ****...ANY OF THE FOLLOWING..let me know...
    Ah, yes yes. Very niiiiice. I would also like to be told of this proof you call it. It be nice. Show me the bag of apples when the tree floats down the river as we say in my home country.

  10. #25
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    If the Bible or any Holy book is truly the word of GOD...first off it couldn't be a ****ing metaphor. You would dare as a person of faith question..the unquestionable word of your GOD? (Like that make's any logical sense)..the mere fact you have to re-interpret GOD'S perfect words...clearly proves it's either A) BULL****, B)Not perfect and the work of a lessor being, C) The most likely answer...man created GOD...what kind of perfect GOD...would get JEALOUS? ****ing whiny *****.

    Two, why all the stories about murder, rape, killing, war? Especially against people who worshiped different GOD? What GOD just feeling too much like an ******* to be live and let be...I mean after all he created them and is omniscient and he didn't see this coming? What's the matter forgot to use his secret decoder ring that day when talking in the ear of some idiot.

    Three,

  11. #26
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    Originally Posted by Akamu
    You cannot prove that a "none-living" chemical can miraculously assemble itself into a living cell.

    Tell me Mr. Wizard, how can that happen? did your black magic spark up life?



    LOL! Talk about stupidity, people actually believe in darwins theory bs vs. something that has been passed down from generation to generation.

    Just too much for your arrogant ass to deal with. You are the most arrogant person on this site. You believe what you want, it doesn't bother me. I'm not gonna debate with someone who's opinion is warped beyond belief.



    The Bible is God's word, and can be applied to the present day (If you read the Bible you wouldn't say that.) saying "four corners" of the earth doesn't necessarily mean that it's saying the world is flat. In a matter of speaking it can mean four different places of the earth.
    I actually read most of the Bible, so whether you agree with me or not, I'm using logic and parts of the Bible to support my views. I'm not just getting this stuff out of nowhere. I used to be a Catholic and a Jehovah's Witness.

    The Earth doesn't have 4 places. There's 7 continents, and the Bible only talks about 3 continents, so it couldn't be talking about places.

    It is a fact that most people used to believe that the Earth is flat, and many scientists that tried to disprove that the Earth was flat were either killed or put in prison.

  12. #27
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    Originally Posted by abcd
    I actually read most of the Bible, so whether you agree with me or not, I'm using logic and parts of the Bible to support my views. I'm not just getting this stuff out of nowhere. I used to be a Catholic and a Jehovah's Witness.

    The Earth doesn't have 4 places. There's 7 continents, and the Bible only talks about 3 continents, so it couldn't be talking about places.

    It is a fact that most people used to believe that the Earth is flat, and many scientists that tried to disprove that the Earth was flat were either killed or put in prison.
    Galileo...

    By 1616 the attacks on Galileo had reached a head, and he went to Rome to try to persuade the Church authorities not to ban his ideas. In the end, Cardinal Bellarmine, acting on directives from the Inquisition, delivered him an order not to "hold or defend" the idea that the Earth moves and the Sun stands still at the centre.

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    Originally Posted by abcd
    1) The Bible also says that black people are cursed.
    Is the world better off with racism?

    1) Genesis- Chapter 9: Verses 18-24
    "The curse which Noah pronounced upon Canaan was the origin of the black race.2"
    Does the bible say: "God cursed the blacks"?

    This statement was used to support the slave trade and the subsequent oppression of the black people. How did it come about? Is this statement really in the Bible?

    No, it is not. In Genesis, chapter 9, there is the account of Ham’s son Canaan, who was cursed by his grandfather, Noah, in these words: "Cursed be Canaan. Let him become the lowest slave to his brothers."
    In the course of history, the Canaanites were subjected by the Israelites and later by various world powers. But did this fulfillment have anything to do with the black races? No. How do we know? Simply because none of Canaan’s offspring were black. In fact, it was Ham’s other sons, Cush and Put, who settled in Africa and fathered the races of black people living there. The Bible does not say that these other sons or their descendants were cursed by God.

    In the face of this evidence, why do people still cling to this myth? In some countries, as in the United States prior to the Civil War, economic advantages in certain areas fit conveniently into such a pattern of thinking. For other individuals, the nurturing of a feeling of superiority may make them feel good. The fact remains, however, that the Bible does not say the black people are, or ever were, cursed by God.
    So, with the Bible in hand, there is no need to be misled at any time. Anyway, is it not fairer and safer to check it for yourself, rather than to accept hearsay? Then you can be sure that your faith will be strengthened by the many good things the Bible has to say!—2 Tim. 3:16.


    Originally Posted by abcd
    2) The Bible says that women are less than men.
    Is the world better off with sexism?

    2) Genesis- Chapter 3: verse 16
    "Your craving will be for your husband, and he will dominate."

    Does the Bible teach that women are of inferior nature, as compared with men?


    No. Adam called Eve "bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh." (Genesis 2:23) Eve was Adam’s "complement."—Genesis 2:18.
    Women referred to in the Bible did many things requiring intellectual capacity. Huldah served as a prophetess to King Josiah. (2 Chronicles 34:22) Deborah both prophesied and judged for the Israelites. (Judges 4:4, 5) Abigail counseled David, when he was king-designate, and saved him from bloodguilt. (1 Samuel 25:23-35)

    A "capable wife" is described as being skilled in purchasing. She organizes and controls a large household, budgets and plans for the future, engages in trade, buys property and organizes successful farming ventures. She possesses the quality of wisdom.—Proverbs 31:10-31.
    Also, women were to receive holy spirit and prophesy in the last days. (Joel 2:28) They were among the first members of the Christian congregation, and were to play a prominent part in the telling of the "good news."—Acts 1:14; 2:4; Psalm 68:11.

    The scripture you refer to is just the penalty of sin that plagues mankind. Instead of viewing women as a helper, and compliment, imperfect men usually look to dominate their mates in an unloving manner. That is why God said that she will crave her husband and he will dominate her. A loving husband would never look to dominate his wife, or helper in this case, and God does not promote such throughout his bible. In fact just the opposite. You just have missaplied what you have read.



    3) The Bible says thou shalt not kill, yet it talks about murdering first born humans and other animals. Would the world be better off if people were randomly killed, just because they were the first born?

    3) Exodus- Chapter 12: verse 29-30
    "At midnight the LORD struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn of the prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the livestock as well. Pharaoh and all his officials and all the Egyptians got up during the night, and there was loud wailing in Egypt, for there was not a house without someone dead."[/quote]



    The Bible says that Nimrod "went forth into Assyria," which was evidently an act of aggression, into the territory of Asshur the son of Shem. There Nimrod built cities.

    (Ge 10:11) In Abraham’s day Chedorlaomer, king of Elam, subjected a number of cities (all apparently around the southern end of the Dead Sea) for a period of 12 years, forcing them to serve him. After they rebelled, Chedorlaomer and his allies warred against them, vanquishing the forces of Sodom and Gomorrah, taking their possessions, and capturing Abraham’s nephew Lot and his household. At that Abraham mustered 318 trained servants and, together with his three confederates, pursued Chedorlaomer and recovered the captives and the plunder. However, Abraham did not take any of the booty for himself. This is the first record of a war waged by a servant of God. Abraham’s warring to recover his fellow servant of Jehovah had Jehovah’s approval, for, on Abraham’s return, he was blessed by Melchizedek, priest of the Most High God.—Ge 14:1-24.

    God-Ordained
    Warfare. Jehovah is "a manly person of war," "the God of armies," and "mighty in battle." (Ex 15:3; 2Sa 5:10; Ps 24:8, 10; Isa 42:13) Not only has he the right as Creator and Supreme Sovereign of the universe but he is also obligated by justice to execute or authorize execution of the lawless, to war against all obstinate ones who refuse to obey his righteous laws. Jehovah was therefore just in wiping out the wicked at the time of the Flood, in destroying Sodom and Gomorrah, and in bringing destruction upon Pharaoh’s forces.—Ge 6:5-7, 13, 17; 19:24; Ex 15:4, 5; compare 2Pe 2:5-10; Jude 7.

    Israel
    used as God’s executioner. Jehovah assigned the Israelites the sacred duty of serving as his executioners in the Promised Land to which he brought them. Prior to Israel’s deliverance from Egypt, the nation had not known warfare. (Ex 13:17) By victoriously directing Israel against "seven nations more populous and mighty" than they were, God magnified his name as "Jehovah of armies, the God of the battle lines of Israel." This proved that "neither with sword nor with spear does Jehovah save, because to Jehovah belongs the battle." (De 7:1; 1Sa 17:45, 47; compare 2Ch 13:12.) It also gave the Israelites the opportunity to demonstrate obedience to God’s commandments to the point of endangering their lives in God-ordained warfare.—De 20:1-4.

    No
    aggression beyond the God-given limits. However, God strictly commanded Israel that they were not to engage in wars of aggression or conquest beyond the territory that he granted to them and that they were not to fight any nations except the ones he ordered them to fight. They were not to engage in strife with the nations of Edom, Moab, or Ammon. (De 2:4, 5, 9, 19) But they were attacked by these nations in later times and were forced to defend themselves against them in warfare. In this they had God’s help.—Jg 3:12-30; 11:32, 33; 1Sa 14:47.

    When, during the period of the Judges, the king of Ammon tried to justify his aggressions against Israel by falsely charging Israel with taking Ammonite land, Jephthah refuted him by recalling the historical facts. Jephthah then proceeded to fight against these aggressors, on the principle that ‘every one whom Jehovah dispossesses before us we will dispossess.’ Jephthah would not relinquish an inch of Israel’s God-given land to any intruder.—Jg 11:12-27;

    Sanctified
    warfare. Anciently, the fighting forces, before they entered battle, were customarily sanctified. (Jos 3:5; Jer 6:4; 51:27, 28) During warfare Israel’s forces, including non-Jews (for example, Uriah the Hittite, who was probably a circumcised proselyte), had to remain ceremonially clean. They could not have sexual relations, even with their own wives, during a military campaign. Accordingly, there were no prostitutes who followed Israel’s army. Moreover, the camp itself had to be kept clean from defilement.—Le 15:16, 18; De 23:9-14; 2Sa 11:11, 13.

    When it was necessary to punish unfaithful Israel, those foreign armies bringing the destruction were viewed as ‘sanctified,’ in the sense that they were ‘set apart’ by Jehovah for the execution of his righteous judgments. (Jer 22:6-9; Hab 1:6) Similarly, those military forces (principally the Medes and Persians) who brought destruction on Babylon were spoken of by Jehovah as "my sanctified ones."—Isa 13:1-3.

    The false prophets in Israel, in their greediness, were said to "sanctify war" against anyone who did not put something into their mouths. Undoubtedly they sanctimoniously claimed divine sanction for their acts of oppression, which included sharing in the responsibility for the persecution and even the death of true prophets and servants of God.—Mic 3:5; Jer 2:8; La 4:13.

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    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    For the Jackass above:

    Just like you can't PROVE any of the following:

    A) There is a GOD
    B) There is a Jesus
    C) Adam and Eve had two kids but yet gave birth to over 6 billion people..eventhough no one has a ****ing clue where Cain's wife came from...
    D) There are Angels
    E) There are Demons
    F) A flood wiped out giants and horny angels
    G) There was a tower of Babel
    H) The earth stood still on it's axis
    I) Man can walk on water
    J) Other pagan GODS are not real
    K) Revelation is real
    L) The Bible is a Metaphor or Literal
    M) There is a Heaven
    N) There is a Hell
    O) There is original sin
    P) When Jesus is coming back
    Q) There is a whore of Babylon
    R) God loves us
    S) God is intelligent in his designs
    T) There will be a judgment day

    When you folks prove ****...ANY OF THE FOLLOWING..let me know...
    Identifying
    "Babylon the Great"


    THE book of Revelation contains expressions that are not to be understood literally. (Revelation 1:1) For example, it mentions a woman with the name "Babylon the Great" written on her forehead. This woman is said to be sitting on "crowds and nations." (Revelation 17:1, 5, 15) Since no literal woman could do this, Babylon the Great must be symbolic. So, what does this symbolic harlot represent?

    At Revelation 17:18, the same figurative woman is described as "the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth." The term "city" indicates an organized group of people. Since this "great city" has control over "the kings of the earth," the woman named Babylon the Great must be an influential organization that is international in scope. It can rightly be called a world empire. What kind of empire? A religious one. Notice how some related passages in the book of Revelation lead us to this conclusion.
    An empire can be political, commercial, or religious. The woman named Babylon the Great is not a political empire because God’s Word states that "the kings of the earth," or the political elements of this world, "committed fornication" with her. Her fornication refers to the alliances she has made with the rulers of this earth and explains why she is called "the great harlot."—Revelation 17:1, 2; James 4:4.


    Babylon the Great cannot be a commercial empire because the "merchants of the earth," representing the commercial elements, will be mourning her at the time of her destruction. In fact, both kings and merchants are described as looking at Babylon the Great from "a distance." (Revelation 18:3, 9, 10, 15-17) Therefore, it is reasonable to conclude that Babylon the Great is, not a political or a commercial empire, but a religious one.

    The religious identity of Babylon the Great is further confirmed by the statement that she misleads all the nations by means of her "spiritistic practice." (Revelation 18:23) Since all forms of spiritism are demon-inspired, it is not surprising that the Bible calls Babylon the Great "a dwelling place of demons." (Revelation 18:2; Deuteronomy 18:10-12) This empire is also described as being actively opposed to true religion, persecuting "prophets" and "holy ones." (Revelation 18:24) In fact, Babylon the Great has such deep hatred for true religion that she violently persecutes and even murders "the witnesses of Jesus." (Revelation 17:6)

    Hence, this woman named Babylon the Great clearly represents the world empire of false religion, which includes all religions that stand in opposition to Jehovah God.

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    The bottom line with this Christianity stuff, along with the other major religions, is that they have failed. People have been raped by members of all of the religious organizations out there, people have become morally bankrupt, while meeting their weekly obligation to attend church, temple, mosque or synagogue. The most evil, unprincipled people are actually church goers. Prisoners are just as religious as the free population. They all talk about love, compassion, but they know nothing, they don't understand what any of these things mean, because their hearts are shriveled up and immature with lack of real spiritual knowledge. And they don't even recognize it, in themselves or in one another. It's a sad condition that these church people are in, for the most part: a complete inner poverty.

    True spirituality requires work, dissatisfaction, with the world and oneself. It requires quiet contemplation, humility and a careful study of the truth, which comes from listening to others, asking questions (without the cynicism of a prejudiced, dogmatic mind). You must question things. True spirituality requires communion with truth, and that means you must put the truth ahead of belief, ahead of what you'd like to think is true. You actually must challenge a religious text, of any kind. Truth is not written, it involved events in the fabric of time. It can never be written, or even told, at least not completely, because it is so vast and cannot be followed down any single path, human or otherwise (trillions of molecules are active and are effecting everything, at all moments in time). Religious ideologues don't seem to understand this. They care about Jehovah, Buddha, Krishna, or whatever else, but they don't care about truth, which, to me, is sacred.

    Frankly, they should just shut up. What can they stand on, when they worship a god that was made up by a people who just wanted an explanation of the world, during a very mysterious time in history. It's 2008, let's actually try to understand the world for what it really is. It's not about the big bang or evolution, to me. I'm talking about truth. Together, if our minds, and hearts, are free and unburdened, we can understand the spiritual, as well as the material, truth of the past. But, accepting religions that were forced on to Europeans, Africans, Native Americans, and their descendants, is foolish. People cry out to god, every day, they beg for relief from their suffering: hunger, health crises, depression, poverty, and loneliness. Do they receive an answer? Does the starving child, with no one willing to help, receive an answer? He or she never does. A major reason why he or she doesn't is the fact that people are waiting for Jesus to save these children. These churches have failed to be hard on their followers, to ensure that they are learning to be truly good, caring people, through their actions, thoughts and understanding of themselves and others. This is because sensitivity (the ability to feel) cannot work with being a blind, submissive follower. Sensitivity requires action, requires being moved by someone else's condition, words, etc.
    Last edited by OGKnickfan; Aug 08, 2008 at 22:53.

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