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Thread: Christianity in 30 Seconds

  1. #421
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    Originally Posted by abcd
    Originally posted by Knicks4lyfe: "Paul was stressing to circumcised Jews that they were no better than uncircumcised gentiles."

    Once again, what does circumcising have to do with the fact that the Bible is Israel centered and that Chrisitianity came from Judaism(the reiligion of the Jews)?


    More quotes:
    Let's see what WatchTower quotes or manipulations Knicks4lyfe is going to use:

    Exodus 3:18
    "And they shall hearken to thy voice: and thou shalt come, thou and the elders of Israel, unto the king of Egypt, and ye shall say unto him, The LORD God of the Hebrews hath met with us: and now let us go, we beseech thee, three days' journey into the wilderness, that we may sacrifice to the LORD our God."

    John 4:22
    "Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews."

    Revelation 7:4
    "And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel."

    Romans 1:16
    "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."

    Romans 1:16 is my favorite, because it specifically says that God will save the Jew first, then the non-Jew second.

    You ever thought you're just a Bible corrupting buffoon, Knicks4lyfe? Now have fun twisting these quotes, too. It'll further show how ignorant you are.
    Hope all is well with you and yours. Take care.

  2. #422
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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Hope all is well with you and yours. Take care.
    Take care to you, too. I don't go around changing verses from the Bible. That's your specialty. And unfortunately, it's thanks to the WatchTower Society. They like to keep people uninformed.

    You should seriously consider looking things up for yourself, on Google, Yahoo!, and Askjeeves. Watchtower.org and Jehovah's Witness.com isn't going to cut it.

  3. #423
    Enlightened OGKnickfan's Avatar
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    Lyfe, to answer your question, I'm not saying you'll be better off, grow in wealth, certainly not that you'll live forever. It's the carrot and the stick that's ensnared you, clearly. If not, you would not ask me which would be better, something that shows you're looking for an offer you can't refuse. Seeking truth is not for the self-interested, it's for the humble, she/he who is at peace in his heart and mind. This isn't something that can be maintained, but, in moments of complete clarity and innocence, truth, something which is always there for the perceiver, reveals itself.

    See, you don't get it: no one can have the truth. It's not about different pathways to truth, it's about there being no path to truth. Truth just is, and by you claiming to have a path, you limit truth to one group, area or people, something which is false. Truth just is, and there is no way to get to it. Either you approach it with an innocent mind and heart, or you don't, which is your case. As for the only way to truth being the god of Israel, that's a reactionary and desperate attempt at arguing a point that is unarguable. Truth comes from everywhere, everyone and everything. There's even a truth about your god and your church, and it's that they're both false.

    It's a fact that it's only in the new testament that the god of Israel is offered to gentiles. Previous to that, he was the god of the Jews. When some of the Jews became Christians, they decided to spread their religion to more people, so they changed the theology in the old testament. Why were others excluded from joining the true faith of Judaism? Maybe the chariots stopped him from doing so. While you work at explaining this, by using the watchtower, try to explain the article I posted on the Israelites being henotheists: combining Yahweh with Ashenerash and El, to form one god. If you read exodus, it even says that this god is the god of the fathers of Israel. ABCD also backed this up with quotes.

    Man, you just said that you do good things so that people believe that you're good and then are willing to accept your religion. How is that selflessness, when you're simply trying to proselytize to them: bibles and bread, eh? Oldest trick in the book, by the way. Also a dirty one. One of my friends, in fact, was a JW, until hundreds of witnesses were killed in an African country, which, at the time, had recently established some kingdom halls. According to his account, with the guidance of the governing body, they refused to buy a government ID, used for voting in that country, saying that they could not be involved in government affairs. As a result of their refusal, they were massacred. Nice work, once again, by the JWs, who believe they can dictate a human being's entire existence, regardless of the consequences.

    Your religion has failed because, thousands of years after Christianity coming into existence, the world is still damaged. Your organization has also perverted reality and truth, turned people away from true spirituality and robbed them of the innocence they were born with, by injecting lies into their heads and hearts. People from your organization are clearly flawed, if you look at the crazy predictions and beliefs they hold, and have held, and your very existence, as a source of confusion, diversion from truth, and propagation of lies, is destroying us. Your organization is merely a small part of it, but it is one, nonetheless.

    What we need, instead of the world religions, is personal responsibility and growth, people engaging in spiritual enrichment, through study and self-realizations, as well as truth-realizations. As things are, people don't really have to work to consider themselves spiritual, even though they know little or nothing, as in your case. Your organization, for example, asks followers to simply believe in doctrine and stories, and rules. Where, in this, is the intelligence, the understanding of what is moral? And, more importantly, where is the union between action and spirit/mind/heart, etc., when taking a supposedly good action? If I refrain from raping a woman because I feel it's a rule that I should not break, according to scripture, how is that moral? Where, in that example, am I actually thinking about myself and the woman?

    The truth is my spiritual adviser, and, when I hear or read something that I feel is graced with it, I acknowledge what is revealed, regardless of who or what is the bearer of the message. I also don't believe what I do out of selfishness. I revere truth, humble my own opinions before it, and disregard lies and fabrications, and that which is hidden from my knowledge. You should try that sometime, instead of selfishly pursuing what you like to believe is true.

  4. #424
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    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    The truth is my spiritual adviser, and, when I hear or read something that I feel is graced with it, I acknowledge what is revealed, regardless of who or what is the bearer of the message. I also don't believe what I do out of selfishness. I revere truth, humble my own opinions before it, and disregard lies and fabrications, and that which is hidden from my knowledge. You should try that sometime, instead of selfishly pursuing what you like to believe is true.

    What I have learned as A JW is truth in my eyes, so how am I being selfish but you are not, when we use the same formula?

    What I read and understand from my fellow believers makes me believe it is the the truth. That is the same criteria you use correct? What's the difference then?

  5. #425
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    Well, the difference is that you follow something that, even if you find you were mistaken about some part of it, you are forced to continue to follow. I've spent the past 7 or 8 years of my life fighting for just one or two small crumbs of truth and understanding. And what I've found has been beautiful, but I know there's much more and continue to look and listen to others. I've also realized how much a mind that is burdened, self-centered, is prevented from seeing what is true. Such a mind is only interested in proving right what he likes to believe, in rationalizing everything he is told. The ultimate source, truth, is there for the perceiver, but he is looking through the distorted lens provided by another, through calculated effort.

    I don't have the answers, and I've never said that I do, but I keep looking. And truth demands freedom, it demands you re-evaluate, constantly, because the truth of now is always evolving, changing, being created. I say you cannot forsake the truth of 2000 years ago, if we say that the story of Jesus and the bible is true, for the truth of now. After all, which is the one that allows you to serve others, and the entire world, with the most awareness and understanding of the issues faced?

    The bottom line is that it's your business to follow what you wish to. The only thing I would offer, as advice, is that you try to realize your own spiritual growth, based on your own observations on scripture, or whatever else you see in the world. You have as much, if not more, of a duty to do so, as the watchtower does.
    Last edited by OGKnickfan; Sep 10, 2008 at 08:35.

  6. #426
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    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    Well, the difference is that you follow something that, even if you find you were mistaken about some part of it, you are forced to continue to follow.
    But that is the thing... No one is forced to stay A JW. They stay because they are convinced it is truth, not based on man, but a diligent study of the bible.

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