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Thread: Christianity in 30 Seconds

  1. #31
    The King Akamu's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by abcd
    I actually read most of the Bible, so whether you agree with me or not, I'm using logic and parts of the Bible to support my views. I'm not just getting this stuff out of nowhere. I used to be a Catholic and a Jehovah's Witness.

    The Earth doesn't have 4 places. There's 7 continents, and the Bible only talks about 3 continents, so it couldn't be talking about places.

    It is a fact that most people used to believe that the Earth is flat, and many scientists that tried to disprove that the Earth was flat were either killed or put in prison.
    Alright I was trying to basically say not to take that literal, it's just out of context.

    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    The bottom line with this Christianity stuff, along with the other religions, is that they have failed. People have been raped by members of these organizations, people have become morally bankrupt, while meeting their weekly obligation to attend church, temple, mosque or synagogue. The most evil, unprincipled people are actually church goers. They talk about love, compassion, but they know nothing of it, they don't understand what any of those things mean. And, when they lack it, they don't recognize it, neither do they see it in one another. It's a sad condition that these church people are in, for the most part.

    True spirituality requires work, dissatisfaction, with the world and oneself. It requires quiet contemplation, humility and a careful study of the truth, which comes from listening to others, asking questions (without the cynicism of a prejudiced mind). You must question things. Spirituality requires communion with truth, and that means you must put the truth ahead of belief, ahead of what you'd like to think is true. Truth is not written, it can never be written or even told, at least not completely, because it is so vast. Religious ideologues don't seem to understand this.
    They throw words like love and charity around, but they don't know how to practice them or what they mean.

    Frankly, they should just shut up, worshiping a god that was made up by a people who just wanted an explanation of the world. It's 2008, let's actually try to understand the world. It's not about the big bang or evolution, I'm talking about truth. Together, if our minds are free and unburdened, we can understand the spiritual, as well as the material, truth of the past. But, by accepting religions that were forced on to Europeans, Africans, Native Americans, and their descendants, is foolish. People cry out to god, every day, they beg for relief from their suffering: hunger, health crises, depression, poverty, and loneliness. Do they receive an answer? Does the starving child, with no one willing to help, receive an answer? Most of the time, he or she doesn't. A major reason why not is that people are waiting for Jesus to save these children. These churches have failed to be hard on their followers, to ensure that they are learning to be truly good, caring people, because sensitivity (the ability to feel) cannot work with being a blind, submissive follower.

    Lemme first make this clear, God and Jesus are one and the SAME period-

    This may be a hard concept for some weak minded people to understand, but it is self evident throughout the Bible.

    "The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit = GOD"
    (I have even asked this question countless of times over the years, and this is how it is for certain)



    I just want to say a few things to you OG, I commend you for coming in here and speaking for yourself, say whatever you'd like man.

    You can't really say Christianity and or even other religions have failed. It depends really, some Christians do not follow the Bible in the same way, or in the correct way for that matter. Depends on your faith and what God has planned.

    Just for thought...I asked myself this, (maybe yall should too) why are the most powerful, richest, influential people on this planet either Atheist or involved with a satanic related religion/organization. Why do the people that have the most influence on this world go against God so much? This only strengthens my belief in God, as it is written in the Bible. "Satan is the ruler of this world" Therefore there are MANY things made to deceive you people.

    An Evolutionist/Atheist cannot prove:
    -Matter always existing (where did matter come from?...I wonder who "created" it)
    -Humans evolved from monkeys (skull evolution without enormous gaps)
    -How life came about (how a non-living chemical assembled itself into a very complex thing as a living cell)

    Look at the complexity of a single cell, formed from something non-living? I think not.

    Last edited by Akamu; Aug 08, 2008 at 23:27.

  2. #32
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    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    The bottom line with this Christianity stuff, along with the other major religions, is that they have failed. People have been raped by members of all of the religious organizations out there, people have become morally bankrupt, while meeting their weekly obligation to attend church, temple, mosque or synagogue. The most evil, unprincipled people are actually church goers. Prisoners are just as religious as the free population. They all talk about love, compassion, but they know nothing, they don't understand what any of these things mean, because their hearts are shriveled up and immature with lack of real spiritual knowledge. And they don't even recognize it, in themselves or in one another. It's a sad condition that these church people are in, for the most part: a complete inner poverty.

    True spirituality requires work, dissatisfaction, with the world and oneself. It requires quiet contemplation, humility and a careful study of the truth, which comes from listening to others, asking questions (without the cynicism of a prejudiced, dogmatic mind). You must question things. True spirituality requires communion with truth, and that means you must put the truth ahead of belief, ahead of what you'd like to think is true. You actually must challenge a religious text, of any kind. Truth is not written, it involved events in the fabric of time. It can never be written, or even told, at least not completely, because it is so vast and cannot be followed down any single path, human or otherwise (trillions of molecules are active and are effecting everything, at all moments in time). Religious ideologues don't seem to understand this. They care about Jehovah, Buddha, Krishna, or whatever else, but they don't care about truth, which, to me, is sacred.

    Frankly, they should just shut up. What can they stand on, when they worship a god that was made up by a people who just wanted an explanation of the world, during a very mysterious time in history. It's 2008, let's actually try to understand the world for what it really is. It's not about the big bang or evolution, to me. I'm talking about truth. Together, if our minds, and hearts, are free and unburdened, we can understand the spiritual, as well as the material, truth of the past. But, accepting religions that were forced on to Europeans, Africans, Native Americans, and their descendants, is foolish. People cry out to god, every day, they beg for relief from their suffering: hunger, health crises, depression, poverty, and loneliness. Do they receive an answer? Does the starving child, with no one willing to help, receive an answer? He or she never does. A major reason why he or she doesn't is the fact that people are waiting for Jesus to save these children. These churches have failed to be hard on their followers, to ensure that they are learning to be truly good, caring people, through their actions, thoughts and understanding of themselves and others. This is because sensitivity (the ability to feel) cannot work with being a blind, submissive follower. Sensitivity requires action, requires being moved by someone else's condition, words, etc.

    People are imperfect, they are going to make even the worst mistakes at times. That means even True Christians. However, a true Christian would strive to live their lives in accord with God's will, hence not living to practice what is wrong. Making a concerted effort even in an imperfect state, to live the life of a Christian as perfectly as you can so to speak.

    Also, the bible does tell us the reason why we suffer in all phases. One just has to wanna know.

  3. #33
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    I think ABCD was right, when he broke down all of the immoral acts sanctioned in the bible. As for evil, once again, the prisons are full, in our country, with, for the most part, Christians. GW Bush is a Christian, so is every other scumbag politician in this country. In addition, there are a lot of the criminals who run around with crosses around their necks. When was the last time you heard of an atheist violating someone's rights?

    Atheists are usually more sensitive to what they, and others, do, they question things. Christians, on the other hand, have a very simple minded approach to everything, because their religion does not teach them to be sensitive, it teaches them to believe and follow rules, mindlessly and without question. Because of this, they are very dangerous people. They can excuse the behavior of their group, as you have, with their belief in Jesus and future salvation. Meanwhile, the bodies pile up, without a blink of the eye from most "Christians."

    I'm done talking to these hypocrites, who want to talk about truth but won't even question a word in the bible, about one of the many evil things on this planet: mindless belief. It's a shame that the truth is out there, even right now, but you turn your backs on it for your own sake, for your "salvation," which is really damnation, for the sake of your egos and feelings of superiority and exclusive knowledge. Where's your so-called Christian humility?

  4. #34
    The King Akamu's Avatar
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    Let me just say this about George W. Bush, he is NOT a true Christian

    Proof:


    George W. Bush is a freemason.

    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    I think ABCD was right, when he broke down all of the immoral acts sanctioned in the bible. As for evil, once again, the prisons are full, in our country, with, for the most part, Christians. GW Bush is a Christian, so is every other scumbag politician in this country. In addition, there are a lot of the criminals who run around with crosses around their necks. When was the last time you heard of an atheist violating someone's rights?

    Atheists are usually more sensitive to what they, and others, do, they question things. Christians, on the other hand, have a very simple minded approach to everything, because their religion does not teach them to be sensitive, it teaches them to believe and follow rules, mindlessly and without question. Because of this, they are very dangerous people. They can excuse the behavior of their group, as you have, with their belief in Jesus and future salvation. Meanwhile, the bodies pile up, without a blink of the eye from most "Christians."

    I'm done talking to these hypocrites, who want to talk about truth but won't even question a word in the bible, about one of the many evil things on this planet: mindless belief. It's a shame that the truth is out there, even right now, but you turn your backs on it for your own sake, for your "salvation," which is really damnation, for the sake of your egos and feelings of superiority and exclusive knowledge. Where's your so-called Christian humility?
    It's not a mindless belief, I have studied this for quite some time now and I have an Archive dedicated to exposing many things that go on in this corrupt world. Don't assume that you have me figured out when you have no idea-
    Last edited by Akamu; Aug 08, 2008 at 23:54.

  5. #35
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    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    I think ABCD was right, when he broke down all of the immoral acts sanctioned in the bible. As for evil, once again, the prisons are full, in our country, with, for the most part, Christians. GW Bush is a Christian, so is every other scumbag politician in this country. So are a lot of the criminals who run around with crosses around their necks. When was the last time you heard of an atheist violating someone's rights?

    Atheists are usually more sensitive, they question things, including their own actions. Christians, on the other hand, have a very simple minded approach to everything, because their religion does not teach them to be sensitive, it teaches them to believe and follow rules, mindlessly. Because of this, they are very dangerous people. They can excuse the behavior of their group, as you have, with their belief in Jesus and future salvation. Meanwhile, the bodies pile up.

    I'm done talking to these hypocrites about one of the many evil things on this planet: mindless belief. It's a shame that the truth is out there for those who care to look, even right now, but you turn your backs on it for your own sake, for your "salvation," for your ego and feeling of superiority and exclusive knowledge. Where's your Christian humility?

    I think you need to really look into what the BIBLE says a Christian is, and not what these people you have mentioned claimed to be.

    Afterall, even Jesus once said to his followers "not everyone saying to me Lord, Lord will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens". He was clearly implying here that people will claim to know him and be his follower, but there actions would be contrary to what a Christians should be. Just because one fashions himself as a Christian, does not mean he is actually living that way. At the same time, that still does not reflect the Bibles view on it, just means people are failing to follow it as a whole properly.

    And at the end of the day, regardless to how anyone feels about the bible, the prophecies in them have proven to come true. Secular history has proven it has, to the point to where people who wanna disprove the bible resort to trying to discredit the writings of such to be after the fact to make them seem legit. Good thing Jehovah is smarter than man, because most of the prophecies have spanned from one time to the next to be fulfilled. Just so people cannot logically say it was written after.

    (Cyrus the Persian's destruction of Babylon, and Babylon's desolation, which took years to be completed, but now, is a desolate unhibaited desert, to name one)

  6. #36
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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Does the bible say: "God cursed the blacks"?




    This statement was used to support the slave trade and the subsequent oppression of the black people. How did it come about? Is this statement really in the Bible?

    The Bible literally says that men will dominate. There's no way around around that. The only way you could get around that is by twisting the words of the Bible.

    Here's the quote, once again:
    "Your craving will be for your husband, and he will dominate."

    If the Bible wasn't trying to say that women are inferior in nature, it wouldn't have said to let their husband dominate. That right there is an example of sexism.

    The Bible also literally says that after Noah cursed Caanan, that was the start of the black race.

    God also doesn't tell Adam and Eve to eat from the tree, yet you guys always link those sins to why everyone is born with sin. If you can accept this, but you can't accept that the Bible says that black people are cursed, then you're basically admitting that people have to twist the Bible into their liking.

    Jehovah's Witnesses actually don't allow women to speak in front of churches about the Bible.
    I've actually been to Jeovah's witnesses Churches, Book Studies, Circuits, and Conventions. You can't tell me this isn't true, because the people from the actual church told me this, and I've actually never seen a woman preach about the Bible in front of a Church.

    1corinthians 14:34-35 "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. 35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

    That right there is discrimination against women.

    Women used to also get payed lower salaries than men, in the United States, and some of them still do. If you think this is discrimination then you can't think that this isn't, unless you're trying to twist the words of the Bible to your liking.

    The Bible also says that slavery is ok:
    "However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way."
    "Leviticus 25:44-46"

    If you say that the Bible is the word of God, you can't then turn around and act like if only parts of it is the word of God. These are all things in the Bible that I have not twisted at all.

    I basically put 6 quotes out there. Like I said on a different post, believers and nonbelievers who debate will always end up resulting in a tie, because we each have facts to support our views. The only time a debate won't result in a tie is if one of the people doesn't know any facts to support their case. We both happen to have things to support our views, so I'll leave it at that. I just want you to know that all the quotes I found came from the Bible. It is up to the reader to interpret it how they choose. I decided to interpret it one way, just like you interpret it in another.
    Last edited by abcd; Aug 09, 2008 at 07:27.

  7. #37
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    I'll be back later to shove Akuma's religion down his throat...later on this evening...maybe into tomorrow.

    But let me ask this question for the religious...

    IF GOD IS SO ****ING GREAT WHY SLAVERY? I'm just saying all the negros that got dragged over here...in chains..were beaten...shackled had their women raped in front of them..children separated her man beaten in front of her (willie lynch letter)...

    All those slaves that went to church each week at Master's request.....

    WHY DIDN'T HE BOTHER TO GET OFF HIS COSMIC ASS AND STOP IT....AND WHY DIDN'T HE STOP JIM CROW AND ALL THE LYNCHINGS?

    Because he was teaching a "DIVINE" moral lesson?? That your best answer?

    U people are a ****ing joke.

  8. #38
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    Originally Posted by abcd
    The Bible literally says that men will dominate. There's no way around around that. The only way you could get around that is by twisting the words of the Bible.

    Here's the quote, once again:
    "Your craving will be for your husband, and he will dominate."

    If the Bible wasn't trying to say that women are inferior in nature, it wouldn't have said to let their husband dominate. That right there is an example of sexism.
    Does the Bible downgrade women or treat them as if they were inferior persons?


    Gen. 2:18: "Jehovah God went on to say: ‘It is not good for the man to continue by himself. I am going to make a helper for him, as a complement of him.’" (The man is not here described by God as being a better person than the woman. Rather, God indicated that woman would possess qualities that would complement those of man within God’s arrangement. A complement is one of two mutually completing parts. Thus women as a group are outstanding in certain qualities and abilities; men, in others. Compare 1 Corinthians 11:11, 12.)


    Gen. 3:16: "To the woman [God] said: ‘ . . . your craving will be for your husband, and he will dominate you.’" (This declaration after Adam and Eve had sinned was not a statement of what men should do but of what Jehovah foreknew they would do now that selfishness had become part of human life. A number of Bible accounts thereafter tell of the very unhappy situations that developed because of such selfish domination by men. But the Bible does not say that God approved of such conduct or that it is an example for others to follow.)

    Is the assigning of headship to men demeaning to women?
    Being under headship is not in itself demeaning. Headship contributes to the handling of matters in an orderly arrangement, and Jehovah is "a God, not of disorder, but of peace." (1 Cor. 14:33) Jesus Christ is under the headship of Jehovah God, and he finds great satisfaction in that relationship.—John 5:19, 20; 8:29; 1 Cor. 15:27, 28.

    A relative headship is also assigned to man, particularly in the family and in the Christian congregation. God has not given to man absolute authority over woman; man must answer to his head, Jesus Christ, and to God for the way that he exercises such headship. (1 Cor. 11:3) Furthermore, husbands are commanded "to be loving their wives as their own bodies" and to ‘assign honor’ to their wives. (Eph. 5:28; 1 Pet. 3:7) The sexual needs of a husband are not put above those of his wife in God’s arrangement for married couples. (1 Cor. 7:3, 4) The role of a capable wife, as outlined in the Bible, emphasizes her value to the household and the community. It allows a broad field in which she can use initiative while demonstrating her appreciation for her husband’s headship. (Prov. 31:10-31) The Bible commands children to honor not only their father but their mother as well. (Eph. 6:1-3) It also gives special attention to caring for the needs of widows. (Jas. 1:27) Thus among true Christians, women can find great security, true appreciation for themselves as individuals, and personal satisfaction in their activity.

    The dignity of woman’s position in God’s arrangement is further shown by the fact that Jehovah refers to his own organization of loyal spirit creatures as a woman, his wife, the mother of his sons. (Rev. 12:1; Gal. 4:26) Also, the spirit-anointed congregation of Jesus Christ is spoken of as his bride. (Rev. 19:7; 21:2, 9) And from a spiritual standpoint there is no distinction between male and female among those called to share in the heavenly Kingdom with Christ.—Gal. 3:26-28.


    Originally Posted by abcd
    The Bible also literally says that after Noah cursed Caanan, that was the start of the black race.

    God also doesn't tell Adam and Eve to eat from the tree, yet you guys always link those sins to why everyone is born with sin. If you can accept this, but you can't accept that the Bible says that black people are cursed, then you're basically admitting that people have to twist the Bible into their liking.
    But you're wrong, Cush and Put were the start of the african race, no canaanites were black. Therefore, blacks were not cursed into slavery.

    Originally Posted by abcd
    Jehovah's Witnesses actually don't allow women to speak in front of churches about the Bible.
    I've actually been to Jeovah's witnesses Churches, Book Studies, Circuits, and Conventions. You can't tell me this isn't true, because the people from the actual church told me this, and I've actually never seen a woman preach about the Bible in front of a Church.

    1corinthians 14:34-35 "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. 35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

    That right there is discrimination against women.
    Should women be ministers?

    Those charged with oversight of a congregation are described in the Bible as being males. The 12 apostles of Jesus Christ were all males, and those later appointed to be overseers and ministerial servants in Christian congregations were males. (Matt. 10:1-4; 1 Tim. 3:2, 12) Women are counseled to "learn in silence with full submissiveness" at congregation meetings, in that they do not raise questions challenging the men in the congregation. The women are ‘not to speak’ at such meetings if what they might say would demonstrate lack of subjection. (1 Tim. 2:11, 12; 1 Cor. 14:33, 34) Thus, although women make valuable contributions to the activity of the congregation, there is no provision for them to preside, or to take the lead by instructing the congregation, when qualified men are present.


    But
    may women be preachers, proclaimers, ministers of the good news, outside the congregation meetings? At Pentecost of 33 C.E. holy spirit was poured out on both men and women. In explanation, the apostle Peter quoted Joel 2:28, 29, saying: "‘In the last days,’ God says, ‘I shall pour out some of my spirit upon every sort of flesh, and your sons and your daughters will prophesy and your young men will see visions and your old men will dream dreams; and even upon my men slaves and upon my women slaves I will pour out some of my spirit in those days, and they will prophesy.’" (Acts 2:17, 18) In like manner today, women properly share in the Christian ministry, preaching from house to house and conducting home Bible studies.—See also Psalm 68:11; Philippians 4:2, 3.

    Originally Posted by abcd
    Women used to also get payed lower salaries than men, in the United States, and some of them still do. If you think this is discrimination then you can't think that this isn't, unless you're trying to twist the words of the Bible to your liking.
    Comparing worldly discrimination to the arrangement of God is pretty bold. As brought out above, God really does not promote discrimination towards women, he prom otes love and respect. But he can still have forms of headship that govern such love and respect. ALL ONE WOULD NEED TO DO IS RESPECT HIS ARRANGEMENT TO FULLY UNDERSTAND AND BENEFIT FROM IT.

    Originally Posted by abcd
    The Bible also says that slavery is ok:
    "However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way."
    "Leviticus 25:44-46"

    If you say that the Bible is the word of God, you can't then turn around and act like if only parts of it is the word of God. These are all things in the Bible that I have not twisted at all.
    While you have not twisted the quotes any, your application of them comes from your imperfect human philosophical viewpoint, and not the bibles.

    Had you delved more deeply into the bible, you would have recognized that the slave arrangement laws basically meant a slave was to be looked at in ways of extended family, or higher, rather than less than human as most people think of concerning a slave. Also remember at that time slavery was common, it was just the way life was. It was telling though How God viewed how even slaves should be treated. Look at the laws in place for slaves of the Hebrew nation.

    Laws governing slave-master relationships. Among the Israelites the status of the Hebrew slave differed from that of a slave who was a foreigner, alien resident, or settler. Whereas the non-Hebrew remained the property of the owner and could be passed on from father to son (Le 25:44-46), the Hebrew slave was to be released in the seventh year of his servitude or in the Jubilee year, depending upon which came first. During the time of his servitude the Hebrew slave was to be treated as a hired laborer. (Ex 21:2; Le 25:10; De 15:12) A Hebrew who sold himself into slavery to an alien resident, to a member of an alien resident’s family, or to a settler could be repurchased at any time, either by himself or by one having the right of repurchase. The redemption price was based on the number of years remaining until the Jubilee year or until the seventh year of servitude. (Le 25:47-52; De 15:12) When granting a Hebrew slave his freedom, the master was to give him a gift to assist him in getting a good start as a freedman. (De 15:13-15) If a slave had come in with a wife, the wife went out with him. However, if the master had given him a wife (evidently a foreign woman who would not be entitled to freedom in the seventh year of servitude), she and any children by her remained the property of the master. In such a case the Hebrew slave could choose to remain with his master. His ear would then be pierced with an awl to indicate that he would continue in servitude to time indefinite.—Ex 21:2-6; De 15:16, 17.

    Female


    Hebrew slaves. Certain special regulations applied to a female Hebrew slave. She could be taken as a concubine by the master or designated as a wife for his son. When designated as a wife for the master’s son, the Hebrewess was to be treated with the due right of daughters. Even if the son took another wife, there was to be no diminishing of her sustenance, clothing, and marriage due. A failure on the son’s part in this respect entitled the woman to her freedom without the payment of a redemption price. If the master sought to have a Hebrewess redeemed, he was not permitted to accomplish this by selling her to foreigners.—Ex 21:7-11.


    Protections


    and privileges. The Law protected slaves from brutalities. A slave was to be set at liberty if mistreatment by the master resulted in the loss of a tooth or an eye. As the usual value for a slave was 30 shekels (compare Ex 21:32), his liberation would have meant considerable loss to the master and, therefore, would have served as a strong deterrent against abuse. Although a master could beat his slave, the slave, depending upon the decision of the judges, was to be avenged if he died under his master’s beating. However, if the slave lingered on for a day or two before dying—this indicating that the master had not intended to kill the slave but to discipline him—he was not to be avenged. (Ex 21:20, 21, 26, 27; Le 24:17) Also, it would appear that for the master to have been considered free of guilt the beating could not have been administered with a lethal instrument, as that would have signified intent to kill. (Compare Nu 35:16-18.) Therefore, if a slave lingered on for a day or two, there would be reasonable question as to whether the death resulted from the chastisement. A beating with a rod, for example, would not normally be fatal, as is shown by the statement at Proverbs 23:13: "Do not hold back discipline from the mere boy. In case you beat him with the rod, he will not die."


    Certain privileges were granted to slaves by the terms of the Law. As all male slaves were circumcised (Ex 12:44; compare Ge 17:12), they could eat the Passover, and slaves of the priest could eat holy things. (Ex 12:43, 44; Le 22:10, 11) Slaves were exempted from working on the Sabbath. (Ex 20:10; De 5:14) During the Sabbath year they were entitled to eat of the growth from spilled kernels and from the unpruned vine. (Le 25:5, 6) They were to share in the rejoicing associated with the sacrificing at the sanctuary and the celebration of the festivals.—De 12:12; 16:11, 14.


    Originally Posted by abcd
    I basically put 6 quotes out there. Like I said on a different post, believers and nonbelievers who debate will always end up resulting in a tie, because we each have facts to support our views. The only time a debate won't result in a tie is if one of the people doesn't know any facts to support their case. We both happen to have things to support our views, so I'll leave it at that. I just want you to know that all the quotes I found came from the Bible. It is up to the reader to interpret it how they choose. I decided to interpret it one way, just like you interpret it in another.
    We won't really end up in a tie. Reason being is Jehovahs witnesses only lean on Jehovah's word the bible to explain itself, while everyone else leans on their own intelligence and philosphy to explain the bible. Philosophyis a dangerous thing when trying to concern it with the word of God. Why?


    Philosophy

    Definition:


    The word philosophy is derived from Greek roots that mean "love of wisdom." As used here, philosophy is not built on acceptance of belief in God, but it tries to give people a unified view of the universe and endeavors to make them critical thinkers. It employs chiefly speculative means rather than observation in a search for truth.

    How can any of us acquire true knowledge and wisdom?


    Prov. 1:7; Ps. 111:10: "The fear of Jehovah is the beginning of knowledge . . . [and] of wisdom." (If the universe were not the product of an intelligent Creator but only of some blind, irrational force, then no unified view of the universe would be possible, would it? Nothing that would qualify as wisdom could result from a study of something that was itself irrational, could it? Those who attempt to understand the universe or life itself, while endeavoring to leave God and his purpose out of account, meet with constant frustration. They misinterpret what they learn and misuse facts that they glean. Leaving out of account belief in God destroys the key to accurate knowledge and makes impossible any truly consistent framework of thought.)


    Prov. 2:4-7: "If you keep seeking for it as for silver, and as for hid treasures you keep searching for it, in that case you will understand the fear of Jehovah, and you will find the very knowledge of God. For Jehovah himself gives wisdom; out of his mouth there are knowledge and discernment. And for the upright ones he will treasure up practical wisdom." (Jehovah provides needed help through his written Word and his visible organization. An earnest desire and personal effort, including the use of one’s thinking ability in a constructive manner, are also necessary.)

    Is it realistic to expect to find absolute truth from this Source?

    2 Tim. 3:16; John 17:17: "All Scripture is inspired of God." "[Jesus said to his heavenly Father:] Your word is truth." (Is it not reasonable that the Creator of the universe would have full understanding of it? In the Bible he has not told us everything about the universe, but what he has had recorded there is not speculation; it is truth. He has also stated in the Bible what his purpose is for the earth and for mankind and how he will accomplish it. His almighty power, superlative wisdom, flawless justice, and great love guarantee that this purpose will be fully accomplished, and in the best possible manner. His qualities thus assure us that his statement of purpose is completely dependable; it is truth.)



    What is the origin of human philosophies?
    They


    come from people who have limitations: The Bible informs us: "It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step." (Jer. 10:23) History testifies that trying to ignore that limitation has not produced good results. On one occasion, "Jehovah proceeded to answer Job out of the windstorm and say: ‘Who is this that is obscuring counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up your loins, please, like an able-bodied man, and let me question you, and you inform me. Where did you happen to be when I founded the earth? Tell me, if you do know understanding.’" (Job 38:1-4) (Humans by nature have limitations. Additionally, their experience in life is relatively brief and is usually confined to one culture or one environment. The knowledge they possess is thus restricted, and everything is interconnected to such an extent that they constantly find aspects that they had not adequately considered. Any philosophy that they originate will reflect these limitations.)


    They


    are developed by humans who are imperfect: "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." (Rom. 3:23) "There exists a way that is upright before a man, but the ways of death are the end of it afterward." (Prov. 14:12) (Because of such imperfection, human philosophies often reflect a basic selfishness that leads perhaps to momentary pleasure but also to frustration and much unhappiness.)


    They


    are influenced by demonic spirits: "The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one." (1 John 5:19) "The one called Devil and Satan . . . is misleading the entire inhabited earth." (Rev. 12:9) "You at one time walked according to the system of things of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, the spirit that now operates in the sons of disobedience." (Eph. 2:2) (Philosophies that encourage people to disobey God’s wholesome and upright requirements reflect such an influence. No wonder that, as history testifies, human philosophies and schemes have often brought grief to large segments of humankind.)


    Why is it an evidence of clear thinking to study the teachings of Jesus Christ instead of human philosophy?

    Col. 1:15-17: "He [Jesus Christ] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and upon the earth . . . All other things have been created through him and for him. Also, he is before all other things and by means of him all other things were made to exist." (His intimate relationship with God enables him to help us to learn the truth about God. Furthermore, as the one through whom all other things were made, Jesus has a full knowledge of the entire created universe. No human philosopher can offer any of this.)


    Col. 1:19, 20: "God saw good for all fullness to dwell in him [Jesus Christ], and through him to reconcile again to himself all other things by making peace through the blood he shed on the torture stake." (Thus Jesus Christ is the one through whom God has purposed to bring all creation back into harmony with himself. To Jesus, God has also entrusted rulership over all the earth, as shown at Daniel 7:13, 14. So our life prospects for the future depend on getting to know him and responding favorably to his instruction.)

    Col. 2:8: "Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry you off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ." (What a sad mistake it would be to choose such deceptive human philosophy in preference to acquiring true wisdom as a disciple of Jesus Christ, the second-greatest person in the universe, next to God himself!)


    How


    does God view the "wisdom" offered by human philosophy?

    1 Cor. 1:19-25: "It is written: ‘I will make the wisdom of the wise men perish, and the intelligence of the intellectual men I will shove aside.’ Where is the wise man? Where the scribe? Where the debater of this system of things? Did not God make the wisdom of the world foolish? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom did not get to know God, God saw good through the foolishness [as it appears to the world] of what is preached to save those believing. . . . Because a foolish thing of God [as the world views it] is wiser than men, and a weak thing of God [as the world may see it] is stronger than men." (Such a viewpoint on God’s part is certainly not arbitrary or unreasonable. He has provided in the Bible, the most widely circulated book in the world, a clear statement of his purpose. He has sent his witnesses to discuss it with all who will listen. How foolish for any creature to think that he has wisdom greater than that of God!)

    Last edited by Knicks4lyfe; Aug 09, 2008 at 22:32.

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    ABCD finished both of you, Akuma and lyfe.

    Your arguments are weak and fail to defend the morality of Jewish slavery. Your own descriptions were used to justify European enslavement of others. Moreover, the descriptions of Jewish slavery are immoral, by anyone's standards.

    I'll be truly spiritual, while you continue worshiping the god of the Jews. I don't get you: you refuse critical thought, refuse to challenge the bible. You're truly sheep and help to promote blindness and apathy for truth, amongst the people of the world.

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    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    ABCD finished both of you, Akuma and lyfe.

    Your arguments are weak and fail to defend the morality of Jewish slavery. Your own descriptions were used to justify European enslavement of others. Moreover, the descriptions of Jewish slavery are immoral, by anyone's standards.

    I'll be truly spiritual, while you continue worshiping the god of the Jews. I don't get you: you refuse critical thought, refuse to challenge the bible. You're truly sheep and help to promote blindness and apathy for truth, amongst the people of the world.
    I'm not, nor is the bible defending slavery.

    Also, Jehovah is God of the nations. Do a little more research to figure out how. Even the Jews had to convert to Christianity to have his favor.

    End of the day this is how the world is apart from those who truly wish to worship God.

    Galations 5:
    19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, and they are fornication, uncleanness, loose conduct, 20 idolatry, practice of spiritism, enmities, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, contentions, divisions, sects, 21 envies, drunken bouts, revelries, and things like these. As to these things I am forewarning YOU, the same way as I did forewarn YOU, that those who practice such things will not inherit Godís kingdom.

    By all accounts, everyone who disagrees with the bible pretty much says they wanna live this way. The world is messed up because most of the world does these things on a regular basis. Without even a consientious thought otherwise.

    Now this is how one who truly is GUIDED BY GOD'S SPIRIT WOULD LIVE.

    Galations 5:22 On the other hand, the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith,23 mildness, self-control. Against such things there is no law.

    Who could really argue, that if everyone lived according to Jehovah's spirit, that the world would be in much, much better shape?

  11. #41
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    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    ABCD finished both of you, Akuma and lyfe.

    Your arguments are weak and fail to defend the morality of Jewish slavery. Your own descriptions were used to justify European enslavement of others. Moreover, the descriptions of Jewish slavery are immoral, by anyone's standards.

    I'll be truly spiritual, while you continue worshiping the god of the Jews. I don't get you: you refuse critical thought, refuse to challenge the bible. You're truly sheep and help to promote blindness and apathy for truth, amongst the people of the world.

    Hysterical, You go off assuming that I blindly follow something without researching it and you declare people winners and such when you don't fully comprehend what's going on. You pretty much fail because this argument can go either way and is extremely con traversal-

    The first thing you should do is learn how to spell my name right, it's Akamu not Akuma I'm not a street fighter character, and this name has a completely different meaning and origin.

    ABCD misinterprets the bible, therefore (from what I have read) does not fully understand it, he said himself he did not read the whole thing in it's entirety, and for most people, you would have to read the bible a numerous amount of times well over before fully understanding it. He brings up some interesting mentions that are always a subject of debate and controversy.

    Knicksfan is on an ego trip, has a lot of personal problems, dislikes the Christian religion (to what degree, who knows), and he can't stand the fact that I choose to have God in my life.

    Also on top of that, him and the whole evolutionist movement think they are right when they can't prove key factors to support the highly unlikely "evoultion" theory.

    The Key Factors Evolutionist cannot prove:
    \_1_) How did the universe come about?
    \_2_) How could living creatures come from non-life?
    \_3_) How could new genetic information arrive?
    \_4_) Where is the proof that apes turned into humans?

    Don't get me wrong, it sounds like a nice alternative story about how you think your ancestors were apes...if you think that's logical fine, then so be it for YOU.

    I not really doing much to debate on this there is no point because I believe one thing, while you believe another. I'm not forcing my religion on anyone, this is my belief and if someone wishes to know about it or wonders what I value in life then I may bring it up. We can go on and on forever about this, but I focus my time on other matters, I can't linger on an argument that is going keep ending up at a crossroad. You go one way while I go the other-

    I'm a BIG skeptic, I question everything I come across, everyone who truly knows me sees this in my personality, to simplify it for you, I am a generalist. By being a generalist, I want to be knowledgeable on many levels, and different aspects of life.

    In order to contain so much knowledge I need to ask an extensivly large amount of questions. I don't just follow crowds or do things that other people want to do because they do them, I do my own thing and find my own way, if I so happen to see significance in a particular religion then I may stand by it.

    I am a Christian not because someone told me to be, but by factoring in
    different elements in our society, looking at different religions, religious views and beliefs (yes even non-beliefs), and analyzing evolution, the most logical answer that I have come across is following the Bible.

    This seems most logical to me, especially compared to evolution, and I choose the Christian religion above others because I am a follower of Christ and I believe his word, his word meaning Gods word.

    From my perspective, I do not think the meaning of life, is the meaning of human-happiness. God gives us all the freedom in the world, we make decisions that we want, freely, so people do as they please and not all their decisions will be good and or right.

    People are allowed to choose weather to believe in God or not, God allows for us to be brought to him by our faith. It is much easier to put God out of existence and just go about your life and be reckless, but I just believe there is much more of a reason for our existence, then just BAM!! here you are, now live then die!

    Just the presence of evil alone proves more to me that there is existence of God.

    I'm not gonna debate about it, or put much effort because it will be just an on going struggle I have no time for.

    Lastly, saying I whorship God of the Jews is just flashing your ignorance, to put it basic (tired of typing) I worship God period-
    Last edited by Akamu; Aug 10, 2008 at 06:01.

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    Originally Posted by Akamu
    Hysterical, You go off assuming that I blindly follow something without researching it and you declare people winners and such when you don't fully comprehend what's going on. You pretty much fail because this argument can go either way and is extremely con traversal-

    The first thing you should do is learn how to spell my name right, it's Akamu not Akuma I'm not a street fighter character, and this name has a completely different meaning and origin.

    ABCD misinterprets the bible, therefore (from what I have read) does not fully understand it, he said himself he did not read the whole thing in it's entirety, and for most people, you would have to read the bible a numerous amount of times well over before fully understanding it. He brings up some interesting mentions that are always a subject of debate and controversy.

    Knicksfan is on an ego trip, has a lot of personal problems, dislikes the Christian religion (to what degree, who knows), and he can't stand the fact that I choose to have God in my life.

    Also on top of that, him and the whole evolutionist movement think they are right when they can't prove key factors to support the highly unlikely "evoultion" theory.

    The Key Factors Evolutionist cannot prove:
    \_1_) How did the universe come about?
    \_2_) How could living creatures come from non-life?
    \_3_) How could new genetic information arrive?
    \_4_) Where is the proof that apes turned into humans?

    Don't get me wrong, it sounds like a nice alternative story about how you think your ancestors were apes...if you think that's logical fine, then so be it for YOU.

    I not really doing much to debate on this there is no point because I believe one thing, while you believe another. I'm not forcing my religion on anyone, this is my belief and if someone wishes to know about it or wonders what I value in life then I may bring it up. We can go on and on forever about this, but I focus my time on other matters, I can't linger on an argument that is going keep ending up at a crossroad. You go one way while I go the other-

    I'm a BIG skeptic, I question everything I come across, everyone who truly knows me sees this in my personality, to simplify it for you, I am a generalist. By being a generalist, I want to be knowledgeable on many levels, and different aspects of life.

    In order to contain so much knowledge I need to ask an extensivly large amount of questions. I don't just follow crowds or do things that other people want to do because they do them, I do my own thing and find my own way, if I so happen to see significance in a particular religion then I may stand by it.

    I am a Christian not because someone told me to be, but by factoring in
    different elements in our society, looking at different religions, religious views and beliefs (yes even non-beliefs), and analyzing evolution, the most logical answer that I have come across is following the Bible.

    This seems most logical to me, especially compared to evolution, and I choose the Christian religion above others because I am a follower of Christ and I believe his word, his word meaning Gods word.

    From my perspective, I do not think the meaning of life, is the meaning of human-happiness. God gives us all the freedom in the world, we make decisions that we want, freely, so people do as they please and not all their decisions will be good and or right.

    People are allowed to choose weather to believe in God or not, God allows for us to be brought to him by our faith. It is much easier to put God out of existence and just go about your life and be reckless, but I just believe there is much more of a reason for our existence, then just BAM!! here you are, now live then die!

    Just the presence of evil alone proves more to me that there is existence of God.

    I'm not gonna debate about it, or put much effort because it will be just an on going struggle I have no time for.

    Lastly, saying I whorship God of the Jews is just flashing your ignorance, to put it basic (tired of typing) I worship God period-

    You don't know how the universe came to be either...

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    Then what created GOD?

    Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. You saying GOD created the universe...all right fine...by all means...what evidence do you have indicating it was done by GOD, and not for lack of a better term cosmic accident?

    And don't worry I'll be back to finish you off later.

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    Originally Posted by TunerAddict
    You don't know how the universe came to be either...
    Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Realz
    Then what created GOD?

    Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. You saying GOD created the universe...all right fine...by all means...what evidence do you have indicating it was done by GOD, and not for lack of a better term cosmic accident?

    And don't worry I'll be back to finish you off later.
    God is not bound by time like we are. God was not created either.

    This video gives a very good and intellectual explanation to that.

    Who Created God?:


    Also here is the ultimate ETHER for evolution:



    => => => => => => =>(Click the Picture)

    Over 14 hours (fourteen hours) of content that goes through Evolution and why it's illogical-

    (A very enlightening
    seminar)

    Last edited by Akamu; Aug 10, 2008 at 17:49.

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    Akamu stated;

    Just for thought...I asked myself this, (maybe yall should too) why are the most powerful, richest, influential people on this planet either Atheist or involved with a satanic related religion/organization. Why do the people that have the most influence on this world go against God so much? This only strengthens my belief in God, as it is written in the Bible. "Satan is the ruler of this world" Therefore there are MANY things made to deceive you people.

    This should be an indication of the former not the latter. The very fact that atheists tend to be richer, smarter, and have a better moral compass than you folks and you're GOD should be telling you something. And I'll be glad to answer this for you...

    The Atheist is more moral than the believer. Why? Because for us our decisions have to be based on something rather than a book that can be used and has been to justify any moral or immoral position. We cannot just simply say well "I'm going to kill them because the bible tells me so, or because the bible says it's against GOD and is my duty to kill them in doing so". Need something more, something "higher". Because at the end of the day for us...there is no magical paradise where will will live forever, there will be no ultimate forgiveness by a supreme being, there will be no ultimate judge who will weigh our actions.

    We have to consider how we will be viewed when WE look back, and how other humans will look back. Not based on the sole judgment on one invisible sky daddy whose going to forgive all sins and crimes so as long as you really really believe in him.

    People that believe they are going to continue their existence into another plane have no considerations for the current planet...after all why should they? They're ticket to Heaven has been stamped and there are no refunds only a transfer to hell.

    Atheists are more powerful because we are bound to other humans, not a GOD. Our actions have to be justified by ourselves to our brothers, not by some impotent GOD that can never seem to even save his most devout followers from ruin.

    Why such a GOD has human emotions is, simply because humans have emotions. A true GOD cannot be jealous, it's illogical for GOD to have an EGO. If GOD had emotions you'd be in a lot more trouble..when he's pissed, angry, jealous...or just plain days when he feels like being an *******. Maybe he wants to take everyone you love away because he feels you've "dissed" him..then what? You still going to pay homage to a tormentor? To worship any GOD one must first believe in something that is not there without any evidence. Such is a dangerous proposition for the rest of humanity and has proven thusly.

    But it's funny the same folks that believe in GOD, Jesus and the rest..dismiss pagan GODS as fake..interesting..calling one groups invisible deity real..and the other's false or fake. Same folks that tell children Santa is coming to town, the Tooth Fairy is going to leave you a dollar, the Easter Bunny is lucky, rabbit's feet are lucky, Peter Pan and Never Never Land are make believe...but yet somehow...Jesus, GOD, and Heaven get "credible" status..because simply the book that mentions them is old?

    **** I'd hate to imagine if we had a time machine and someone place a copy of the first issue of X-MEN in the deserts of Arabia..where we would be today!!

    The only reason folks believe is because they are taught these bull**** stories.

    But even the devout whom truly believes...cannot state that GOD hasn't dropped the cosmic ball a few times since inception if that were the case.

    What possible just reason could a "loving GOD" have for making a people go through slavery? the holocaust? the inquisitions? rape? war? incest? molestation? torture? homelessness? famine? conquest? disease? To teach some purported "divine" lesson.

    The simple fact is before I make another post explaining evolution again and why your argument of irreducible complexity and god of the gaps is complete bull**** and fake, is that...OUR MORALITY HAS SURPASSED GOD'S. PERIOD.

    If the Bible or ANY HOLY TEXT..we're truly the infallible, correct word of GOD...direct from the horse's mouth. They CANNOT BE SUBJECT TO INTERPRETATION. Because to re-interpret GODs perfect word and works...would be to state GOD is incorrect the first time he wrote it. After all the correct answer, is always the correct answer. There is no misinterpretation of truth, and the accuracy of it is provable and undeniable. So to re-interpret GOD's work..indicates flaw...failure..incorrect...which means then GOD is not perfect..and if you believe GOD to not be perfect..then it perfectly lends logically of why he's suck a **** up when it comes to humans and what has happened since in your view he put us on this planet.

    If GOD is real, so to is Peter Pan, Captain Hook, Wolverine, Mickey Mouse, Superman, and Godzilla.

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