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Thread: The Knicks 2010 Plan on salary cap relief

  1. #1
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    Nyk Logo The Knicks 2010 Plan on salary cap relief

    Isiah Thomas proved to be the worst G.M. in "trade for trade" of NBA players the last 5 seasons.
    Is that true?
    The MLE is mostly used to get that missing player that is needed as a 6th to 8th man off the bench to boost the rotation into winning.
    Did Isiah strike-out twice on the MLE signings?

    I never liked or understood how so many members could fall for the first interview of the Knicks new President of Operations "the 2010 plan".
    It sounded to much like Isiah Thomas theory of getting rid of all the Laydumb players. Which turned out to be a foolish move when coach Chaney had great defensive chemistry from seven (7) of the Laydumb players which kept would have had a .500 season.

    Donnie Walsh 2010 plan should've been "The Isiah Thomas no chemistry players must go plan". Starting with the Knicks starting-5 for the last 3 seasons.
    That would have excited and insured Knick-Fans the president is working on "teamship" to win games rather than the last 4 years of "individual-players" which produce more team losses than wins.

    The Knicks do not need a "2010 Plan", the Knicks just needed a bigger coaching-staff that will have confidence in the head coach.
    And a G.M. that is familiar to all the certain types of winning-players in the NBA to trade for. The players does not have to be a scorer, or a short contract player. Just a player that will put 110% performance on the court each game.

    I asked constantly for the last 4 months how will this 2010 plan will help this Knick Team? and all I get back is the FA list in 2010.
    When you look at all the Knick players that contract goes past the 2010 season, if one or two of those players are still on the Knicks I doubt if any of the 2010 FA would want to play alongside of them no matter how well they improve their performance in two seasons under coach D'Antoni.

    1) Did coach D'Antoni need at least two defensive coaches on his staff in Phoenix?

    2) Did the Knicks performance in the 2007-8 season lack defensive strategy which would have stopped all the blow-outs and win more games?

    Your opinion is needed?

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    Personally I agree with Kiyaman that the Knicks supposed 2010 plan is crap. Don't get me wrong I do have faith in the new staff of D' Antoni and Walsh but even that doesn't change the fact that if the Knicks stick with the same plan they will get nothing.

    Problems with the 2010 plan:

    1. The biggest problem with the 2010 plan is that everyone keeps forgetting that the Knicks are not the only ones with a 2010 plan. There are plenty of teams out their with 2010 plans. Some of which have better plans then the Knicks. So to land a FA when you have even less cap then other teams is difficult.

    2. Everyone keeps talking about LeBron in 2010 and that he will come to the Knicks. I say that is crap. Why? Well lets see Lebron has been to the finals so I think in 2010 when and if he changes a team he will look for a contender. There are plenty of contenders out there making room for 2010. Next the only thing that the Knicks can offer is potential players (already has that in Clevland), the city of New York (the Nets will have the same appeal if not better), and money (again the Knicks are not the only ones with money in 2010.

    3. So at the end of the day what you are looking at if the Knicks keep the same roster is spending the cap space (which will be limited if we keep all the contracts we still have past 2010) on a mediocre FA and toss him in their with some inexperienced players and the players that will still be on the team and you have a result that is the same **** as 07-08 (maybe a little better) (but still not a playoff contender)

    4. Solutions the only solution to this problem I think is 1. Get rid of all the current bad contracts past 2010. (preferably not for complete crap). Next develop some of these potential players under D' Antoni. And finally hope for some luck in the lottery and in trading. Hell if L.A. could have that kind of ridiculous luck in landing Gasol then why can't we. I think that with cap space in 2010 and maybe a "few" "good" players past or around 2010 the Knicks could gain a nice FA in 2010 and become great again.
    Last edited by Titos102; Aug 20, 2008 at 13:09.

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    Kiyaman is right, but a lot of people will probably criticize this thread.

    I think it's stupid to have a 2010 plan, because there's no guarantee that Lebron James, Dwyane Wade, or Chris Bosh will end up signing with the Knicks. I think Donnie Walsh is using a 2010 plan, so that nobody can criticize his moves until 2010. I'm not gullible. If he makes a bad move, I'm going to mention it.

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    Default Cap Space in 2010

    Walsh has plainly identified a plan that includes 2010 cap space. I am not sure that the plan necessarily includes having cap space just to get LeBron, Bosh or Wade.

    The plan is is perhaps motivated by looking at the players currently taking up the 2010 cap space - Zach at $17.33M, Curry at $11.27M, Jamal at $10.08M and Jefferies at $6.88M. There are not too many of us that want any one of these on the 2010 Knicks.

    When Walsh says he wants cap space in 2010, he might well mean that he does not intend to have that foursome on the 2010 team. In any event, whether or not we get LeBron or some other super star in 2010, cap space is good to have. It is the lack of current cap space - and bloated salaries - that is tying Walsh's hands in any attempts to make trades or sign free agents.

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    Veteran GetRealistic's Avatar
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    Not atleast having the ability to make a run at Lebron, Bosh, or Wade would be the worst thing this franchise could do. We may very well not land them but we have to atleast be in the running.

    The lure of playing in NY and bringing back this franchise to prominence will make up for the many downsides of joining this team. Also is it just me or don't you think Stern will do everything in his power to help facilitate Lebron coming to NY.

    Everybody talks about how we shouldn't be playing for 2010 but doesn't give a reasonable plan of what we should be doing instead. I'm still waiting for an actual trade proposal that Donnie passed on that would have helped this team, cause there hasn't be one. And i honestly don't mind holding on to Zach right now for the mere fact that teams become more and more desperate as the trade deadline approaches. Maybe Cleveland realizes that Zach is the missing piece or better yet they fall into some front court injuries and then have to overpay for Zach.

    Everybody wants to get rid of Crawford, Curry, Marbury, Randolph, and the JJ's but the fact is there is no team that wants them. Walsh is doing the right thing by playing his hand close to the vest and waiting to react instead of making a move that would appease the fan base but in reality not help the team.

    Were not going to be good this season, and barring a miracle were not going to be a good team next season. But in todays NBA the name of the game is cap space. Just look at the 76ers for an example. They cut ties with AI and had a few down years but they kept with there plan and drafted well (thaddeus Young, and lou williams) let the contracts of Webber fade away instead of trying to trade him and take on another bad contract.

    The Sixers have a nice young core of Brand, AI, Young, Williams, and have a big time piece with the expiring contract of Andre Miller that they can use in a trade or cap space.

    Everybody is so jaded by the past regimes but the fact is Donnie is doing the right thing. By this time next year he the team will no long have Marbury and Malik Roses contract and hopefully Randolph will be gone in a cap friendly deal and we'll have added another lottery draft pick, and a second round choice.

    Two years from now Jerome James, Q richardson and Chris Duhon deal will be gone and Curry, Crawford, and Jefferies contracts will all be going into their last years which make them very easy to trade.

    By summer of 2010 we should have something like this

    Gallinari
    Crawford (deal almost expired easy to trade)
    Curry ( Same as above)
    Jefferies (Same)
    2009 Lottery pick (hopefully a PG)
    2009 second round pick (front court player)
    Lee (if we resign him, but if he keeps his demands this high i say trade him for picks)
    Nate (he shouldn't be as hard to sign)
    Chandler (rookie option picked up)
    You gotta figure along the way a few players are added as roster fillers but barring anything major that would be the core.

    Tell you what i'd have no problem with that in 2010. That would give us plenty of flexibility to go hard and land a big time player. But even if we can't land a Lebron or Wade you still have to be under the cap to get better. This isn't baseball the cap runs this league.

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    You guys have to ask yourself this: do you want a mediocre team that continually makes it to the playoffs but never becomes a legit title contender or a dynasty? I, for one, want a dynasty or at least a legitamite title contender. In order to become one, the Knicks need to get below the cap and/or get lucky with the draft. We may not get Lebron in 2010 but we are bound to get a stud eventually through free agency because people want to play in NY.

    Let's be realistic...we're not going to be a good team anytime before 2011.

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    No matter what Donnie does, we will be crappy this year and most likely next year. We might as well plan for the 2010-2011 season.

    If we are able to trade Zach for someone like Wally Szczerbiak (expiring contract) and trade Curry for someone like Darko Milicic (1 less year), we will be well under the cap by the end of next season. Zach's, Curry's, Marbury's, Malik's, Q. Rich's, Jerome James' and Chris Duhon's contracts could all be gone by the end of next year with the right trades. That's huge! We could possibly be far enough under the cap to sign more than one big free agent. Maybe both Chris Bosh and D Wade, or Joe Johnson? Signing 1 free agent might be enough to entice another to come to NY.

    In the meantime, evaluate our young players and maybe make a small trade to get some young role players that will fit in the current coach's system (I'm thinking Nate for Sean Williams).

    The thing that bothers me the most about Donnie, is that he's over evaluating things and being too cautious. If we're gonna suck, and we need to dump salary, who cares what value we get in return. Just dump salary so we can start over. You can't dump salary and stay competitive at the same time.

    I'm willing to wait for this possible lineup:

    PG-???
    SG-D Wade
    SF-Wilson Chandler
    PF-Chris Bosh
    C-Sean Williams
    Last edited by LJ4ptplay; Aug 20, 2008 at 16:51.

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    So far, the biggest knock on Donnie is not making the trade of Zach for a second round pick. I don't think it's fair to judge him on this because we don't really know the details of this rumored trade. If it was a straight Zach for a second round pick, then I would have definitely made that trade but if it was Zach and our first round pick for their second round pick, then that would have been retarded.

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    Originally Posted by KnicksFan112
    So far, the biggest knock on Donnie is not making the trade of Zach for a second round pick. I don't think it's fair to judge him on this because we don't really know the details of this rumored trade. If it was a straight Zach for a second round pick, then I would have definitely made that trade but if it was Zach and our first round pick for their second round pick, then that would have been retarded.
    Agreed. There's no sense in getting ass-raped to just dump salary. But the lack of trade-chatter has me a bit worried that Donnie is trying to get too much value for our players. When in the end, we just need to dump salary.

    Also, the lack of effort to get some defensive players has me worried about Donnie's and D'Antoni's vision.

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    The lack of trade-chatter might also mean that nobody wants our players.

    I wouldn't want another one dimensional defensive player on our team unless its a shot blocking center and there isn't many in the league.

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    Veteran GetRealistic's Avatar
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    The starting lineup for this seasons opening game has very little to do with this teams future vision. Other then Chandler, Gallo, maybe Roberson, and possibly Crawford and Curry. The team we through on the court against Miami will not be in our future plans.

    I don't know what the rush is. The trading deadline isn't until Febuary, during the season teams will shock people and become contenders and could use a Curry, Crawford, or Randolph. Or teams will get injuries and need replacements. When teams get desperate they'll overpay for players.


    And why can't we draft a big time point guard, or a defensive presence with next years lottery pick? The biggest thing i'd like to obtain in the near future is a 2010 first round pick since we don't have one.

    I really don't think you can judge Donnie till Febuary, and i don't think u'll be able to judge D'Antoni until midway through next season. Look at the hand they've both been dealt.

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    donnie inherited a mess....so he's tryna clean it rather than sweep it under the rug. i support the 2010 plan. CAP SPACE in 2010. we need to tank this season again, like the heat did, lets fake a few injuries and play our rookies for the entire season....develop the rooks n bench players, trade for picks, draft a defensive minded center, and get under the cap for 2010!

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    The Knicks have many holes on this team. If they stay the course and let the contracts just run out and off the books, we will still have the same holes 3 years from now; unless one of the up and coming drafts turns out to be fruitful. A smart, veteran GM will look at what he has and be able to identify the weaknesses. Then he can try to address them 1 at a time until he has the complete roster that he has envisioned. That was Isiah's problem as a GM, no vision comprehensive understanding on how to build a fluid team. So, I agree that there should not be a 2010 plan, but there should be an overall plan in place on how to fix this team! Not to sound redundant but I am all for any trade that takes us one step closer to a repairing this roster!!

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    Originally Posted by hometheaterguy
    The Knicks have many holes on this team. If they stay the course and let the contracts just run out and off the books, we will still have the same holes 3 years from now; unless one of the up and coming drafts turns out to be fruitful. A smart, veteran GM will look at what he has and be able to identify the weaknesses. Then he can try to address them 1 at a time until he has the complete roster that he has envisioned. That was Isiah's problem as a GM, no vision comprehensive understanding on how to build a fluid team. So, I agree that there should not be a 2010 plan, but there should be an overall plan in place on how to fix this team! Not to sound redundant but I am all for any trade that takes us one step closer to a repairing this roster!!
    We have to be clear financially first. And sometimes with high priced bench players that Isiah signed, it's hard to trade them. This might be Donnie's only way to make this team a possible contender in a few years. The guys we dont like will drop like flies in a few years. We're better off letting them drop, getting draft picks, and signing the next big name. Instead of trading away draft picks, Donnie is getting draft picks, so that's one plus so far.

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    ive been saying the past few months, i HATE the 2010 plan.


    we need to be on the look out for key players and deals when we can get them. waiting till 2010 will, again, leave us on the outside looking in. players are already resigning, and other players are talking about playing euro ball for a year till their favorite rappers get teams up and running.

    we need to make moves under the radar while everyone ELSE is waiting on 2010 like a bunch of fools. theirs always the possibility that if we make the team appealing enough to fellow nba'ers, they'll go there with salary cuts...

    imagine that? talk about a turn around..

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